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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
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whyamihere
Banned
Yes if Trump murders and then eats a baby on live television he'll get impeached. You got me.
"Obama wiretapped me", "Comey leaked classified info", and now "Loretta Lynch let the Russian lawyer into the country"
https://twitter.com/grace_lightning/status/885696807929380864
SatelliteOfLove
Member
"Look! A right-wing boogieman distraction!"
Question is though, will the RNC be so beta as to acquiesce? A heavy order, that one, given that's what they'll need for themselves.
And who is this money going to? His Lionel Hutz Brigade ain't exactly that big or that exclusive.
Also, yeah, all those dumbdumbs giving their limited money to a "billionaire" for his reelection he coulda been dipping into. You know his ass is mortaged to hell and back, we just need to see how and to whom...
Question is though, will the RNC be so beta as to acquiesce? A heavy order, that one, given that's what they'll need for themselves.
And who is this money going to? His Lionel Hutz Brigade ain't exactly that big or that exclusive.
Also, yeah, all those dumbdumbs giving their limited money to a "billionaire" for his reelection he coulda been dipping into. You know his ass is mortaged to hell and back, we just need to see how and to whom...
Trump refusing to accept the results is only possible in a close election. If a Democrat gets an Obama 08 or even 12 EC victory. He'd have no standing. Not sure Fox would even back him to that extent, they make money via stability. And there's a lot more money to be made demonizing a D president I think.
So what if another email comes out where Trump Sr. says "good job dumping the emails on WikiLeaks as per our earlier meeting?"
Before you roll your eyes at me again, consider the possibility that I'm trying to identify what your broad statements actually mean, because they're unclear. Do you believe that it is impossible for the Russia scandal to evolve in such a way that Trump is so clearly implicated that the Republicans would have to impeach him? That seems to me to be your claim!
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
What a cry baby.
Prof. Bathtub
Member
It's tough to predict extreme vs. non-extreme scenarios from a present that is already an extreme scenario. In any case, if the evidence and crimes become even more overwhelming by several degrees, I certainly wouldn't want D officials to sit on their hands, even if they know their attempts are nullified by GOP shielding.
I guess my original rebuttal was: if Trump cancelling elections is on the table, then this threat of electoral backlash against the GOP would never exist in the first place? It's a tautology to begin with. (More on this later)
My view is that the Republicans are way past the point of no return. The very act of turning on Trump would be an admission of guilt and complicity with whatever impeachable offense Trump committed - likely treason. If the voters are demanding Trump be impeached, how would admitting that you were a willing and eager accomplice through it all help save yourself? If anything, I see a double price: guilt by association with Trump, and then an additional penalty for ratting on him with his base.
Nothing? But a couple thoughts:
1. The GOP electorate voted decisively in favor of Donald Trump, not the establishment GOP. This is Trump's party now.
2. However, at the same time, Donald Trump has very little actual power. He holds the Republican mandate, but acts solely as a figurehead for the party and the GOP Congress (domestically at least). They are co-dependent on each other, but the GOP relies far more on Trump than vice versa. Acting against Trump is acting against your primary instrument of power.
3. Cancelling/rigging/etc. elections would be the single most blatantly undemocratic act in this nation's history - which is saying something! I'm not saying I have unqualified faith in our nation's electorate, but what I am saying is - in this doomsday scenario, I have infinitely more faith in the American electorate than I do in Congress.
The problem with vesting faith in congress is that they are already far too deep in with Trump, from Cruz to Collins, and have no choice but to protect themselves (because they are complicit); the American electorate can still protest, riot in the street, or resort to extralegal measures, execute a coup, etc. etc. On the other hand, it's not like Trump has ever been a popular leader. He's started at abysmal approval ratings, has no mandate, etc. He starts with practically no legitimacy in the eyes of the electorate to begin with, and has only declined since. The threat of losing the electorate's legitimacy is what would keep those democratic norms (a free and fair election) in place.
I guess you still have to have some faith that the electorate would reject any pretense of Trump's government having any authority or legitimacy. Obviously, to have any faith in this government and our institutions whatsoever, you also have to believe that the threat of losing the legitimacy and consent of the people is a credible threat. But, in this doomsday scenario, yes, I have more faith in the people than in Congress.
whyamihere
Banned
I think it's highly unlikely -- hence, less than 1%, yet greater than 0% -- that the Russia scandal will evolve into something that leads a Republican House to impeach Trump. Maybe it will, but that's why I gave odds! But I don't think it's very likely that such a direct evidence of Trump/Putin/Wikileaks actually exists.
Will Trump do something that drives his approval organically below 50% with Republicans? Doubtful! Bush's did not get that low!
Now, let's say Trump, in the very unlikely event, says, no more elections! Or says, here are the codes to all the machines, Russia! Then sure. I think he'd be removed from office. But I'm compounding the odds of implausible scenarios.
But if you'd like to continue to play these hypotheticals, I guess I will admit that there is A HIGHLY UNLIKELY WORLD in which Trump is impeached. But again, the likelihood he loses in 2020 is so much greater I see no reason to admonish people who'd rather not put all their hope in impeachment, especially not in a super personal way that came across as sort of dickish.
Shouldn't he just be holding rallies in rural communities to raise money for the effort?
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
McCain winced. "I find this rather troubling."
StopMakingSense
Member
"It's not illegal when the president does it"
Yeah. This is my opinion. It's not that I don't think impeachment could never possibly happen. It's that scenarios for it to happen (and proof of them) would have to be horrifically awful to the point that not even Trump suppoerters would want to defend or deflect it.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
typical liberal hypocrisy, Obama did that every week after declaring himself the Antichrist and he never was touched by Congress!
sorry, flashbacks to dealing with homeschoolers saying absurdly insane things about Obama to which my response was always "and I heard he eats babies." I wasn't even very liberal, I just thought people were incredibly dumb
Real talk, this is the only reason I want the pee pee tape to be real. Despite being yet another thing to laugh at Trump over, if what happens in that tape is anything like what the dossier describes, it's the only thing I can think of humiliating enough to break the aura around Trump that his supporters find so appealing.
BlastProcessing
Member
He doesn't have the stamina to do rallies anymore. He only has the energy to hold no public events during the week and golf on the weekends.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
but what if his supporters love peeing on their wives?
skullmuffins
Banned
The dossier says Trump hired some prostitutes to pee on a bed the Obamas slept in. It's not that humiliating for Trump, I don't think.... it just shows how petty and spiteful he is (which isn't news).
Autodidact
Banned
If the tape appears and the girls are, heaven forbid, underage, I still think this shit will come crashing down faster than you can say, "Yiannopolous."
StopMakingSense
Member
The point of the tape existing or not is the idea Russia held compromising info on Trump. The content is fairly immaterial, other than it being salacious enough to be able to used as leverage against Trump.
The main thing it would do is give legitimacy to the dossier since that's the part people mainly mock not using their critical thinking that the dossier was supposed to be verified through other sources.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...blican_actually_appear_to_kill_trumpcare.html
Slate article that asks why a third Senator hasn't stepped in to seriously kill Trumpcare.
Ends on this powerful note.
Slate article that asks why a third Senator hasn't stepped in to seriously kill Trumpcare.
Ends on this powerful note.
timetokill
Banned
To me a huge (yuge) part of it is that it would do serious damage to the Trump brand and image, which is what donald cares about most in this world
whyamihere
Banned
I think this is exactly correct, but lol at this line.
McConnell has to be pissed at Rand for taking one of his Nos from Heller.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Here's the real shit:
Nobody knows what will happen. What we do know is that we aren't watching a master plan concocted by a modern political Sun Tzu play out.
Republican senators are under immense pressure to vote no, and also under immense pressure to vote yes. Right now, the ones on the fence are too scared to commit either way. Nobody wants to be the one to kill the bill. It's simply going to come down to which faction scares them more. Once (if) one of them breaks, many others will too.
Maybe it won't play out that way, maybe it will. But if it doesn't, it's not because they planned it this way all along. Anybody telling you "it's all theater!" at this point is not credible.
These people aren't evil geniuses, they're cowards. They aren't biding their time to find an excuse to vote yes, they're scared shitless and don't know what to do. Keep calling, keep pushing them. That's really all anyone can do.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Apropos of nothing, but I can't stand the phrase "good paying." It may be grammatically correct, but it sure as hell doesn't sound like it. It just sounds like something a kid would say. It's weird.
Autodidact
Banned
Only elitists say "well-compensated."
You Know Nothing
Member
Well-remunerated is reserved for the most coastal of elites.
Autodidact
Banned
"I wish to provide intellectually stimulating labor that will liberate my constituents from the ignominy of impecuniousness."
Whose brand would a pee-pee tape not be bad for if they were in the same position? Feels like that goes beyond something Trump would be concerned about to anyone ever would be concerned about if such a tape existed that involved them.
Aaron Strife
Banned
A presidential election in which the candidates are Trump and Pelosi.
(I know that's not true because the GOP wouldn't let the presidency go, we'd just have Pence)
Autodidact
Banned
I think you meant super liberal Congressman Tim "No social issues, please" Ryan.
If there were any chance of a Democratic Speaker becoming President, they wouldn't let Pelosi have it. The knives would be out.
Sadly, I have the strongest feeling on how that would turn out.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I don't disagree.
I just hope that's how progressives see it.
Then again "progressives" hate Pelosi for reasons they don't fully understand (hint right-wing media smear campaign)
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I think YOU mean Democratic party upcomer Tim Canova!
I love how even after everything that's happened were still giving the Republicans the benefit of the doubt on something.
The real world has officially eclipsed any season of House of Cards, ever. The White House is blatantly committing crimes and illegal acts and the government does not give a single solitary fuck. The fact that anyone still living thinks blatant election rigging or refusing to honor the results, no matter how overwhelmingly D, is a bridge too far for them... I don't even know what to say.
The calculus these people made over a year ago is that if they have the power, no amount of protesting or polls or anything at all matters. They know a true revolt will never happen because of reasons outlined in this thread. People are too poor and they have too many bills to pay, and the rest of us are ultimately too complacent to do more than gather for a day or a few days of huge protests. The Republicans have decided to stop caring completely about tradition, rules, norms, and public opinion. Ever since this Trump Jr. stuff its clear as day. Everyone keeps saying "vote in 2018", as if it'll be that easy to fix the country and the GOP won't pull some truly deplorable shit now that they know they can.
Finale Fireworker
Member
I wouldn't say they "hate" Pelosi. But they don't like Pelosi because she said no to single-payer health care and her "we're capitalists" line.
Basically, she's old. She's the kind of liberal the young left is sick of because they seem slow-moving and only willing to compromise with racist republicans rather than their actual burgeoning voter bloc. The liberalism she embodies is what young progressives perceive as centrist because they are further left than most of the party.
Establishment Democrats will always bore young voters (and the growing post-Sanders Left in general) because they seem so meek and limp-wristed about the extremely serious issues that they care about more than anything else. Instead of saying "we can do it", they say "eh, probably not."
Hence low enthusiasm over people like Pelosi and that bumper sticker everyone hates. They would rather people as passionate about their problems as they are.
They know they're better than republicans, but "what other choice do you have?" is a poor motivator.
nintendoman58
Member
Refusing to honor an election is a completely different ballpark from what we've seen right now though.
If Dems have a clear electoral victory and the GOP says no, do you think they're gonna just walk away feeling sad?
Like, refusing to honor the results of an election would be a literal act of civil war.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
NBC News: unnamed former soviet counterintelligence officer also in the Trump Jr. meeting
Officerrob
Banned
NBC News reporting that there was another person at that Don Jr. meeting, and apparently this guy was a former Russian counter-intelligence officer with ongoing ties to Russian Intelligence
A Serious Man
Member
Hooo boy.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
This should be interesting.
And.....there's the ties to Russia that people were trying to debate.
Host Samurai
Member
He will cry voter fraud and fake news. Just look what he's saying now about this email issue. Opposition research and how the Russian lawyer was planted by Obama 🙄. This is the kind of shit we are dealing with and Putin is giving him all the tips.
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