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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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There's no disappointment with this race. Either it's a good night showing 2018 is going to be a good year, or it's a good night showing 2018 is going to be a good year with a bonus extra congressman.

The only disappointing result for tomorrow would be Ossoff losing by 15+ points.

It's disappointing if he loses. There's no spinning a good showing right now. That's the fault of the party for setting up the expectation and assuring people they would win this.

The party basically ignored other special elections and banked everything on this one. It's a poor showing if it's a lose because it's a sign that they don't know what the fuck they are doing, where to invest resources appropriately, or how to win.

If you are going to ditch rural areas and bank everything affluent white suburbs then you have to actually figure out how to win here.

If all the GOP has to do in the face of what they are currently getting away with is run a Kathy Griffin ad to hold on to a seat democrats passed on others to contest that just shows how strong their advantage currently is.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
No way the CBO score is done by next week, so I guess he's trashing the filibuster?

Read the article:

Sources close to Mitch McConnell tell me the Majority Leader is dead serious about forcing a Senate vote on the Obamacare repeal-and-replace bill before the July 4 holiday.”

“Some senators want to delay the vote but McConnell views that as delaying the inevitable. There are no mysteries about what the toughest disagreements are over — Medicaid funding and insurance market regulations.”

“This week is crucial: the Senate won’t vote without a CBO score, which means they need to finalize negotiations this week
 
I thought CBO scores take about two weeks?

Isn't it almost too late to get a score before the 4th recess?

The reporting does not lead me to believe they can get something to the CBO today...
 
Wait, are we expecting SCOTUS to allow partisan gerrymandering to keep happening? I had faith they would rule it unconstitutional. Now you have me scared!!

This is by far one of the most important issues to me and the country. What do you guys think will happen?? And when will they hear the case and make a ruling???

At this point, rulings are not really about whether partisan gerrymandering is constitutional. They're about how you can legally prove partisan gerrymandering.
 
Honestly pretty much this.

A benefit of Ossoff losing would probably be that it may lull the GOP into a false sense of security for 2018.

This just comes off as "4D chess, we are winning by losing!" nonsense.

Win a fucking election. Actually unseat republicans. They aren't going to give a fuck until Democrats are actually competent enough to do that.

Right now the GOP is playing the democrats like you would play against Rondo behind the 3 point line. Just back off. Let him shoot because he can't hit a jumper for shit.
 
This just comes off as "4D chess, we are winning by losing!" nonsense.

Win a fucking election. Actually unseat republicans. They aren't going to give a fuck until Democrats are actually competent enough to do that.

Right now the GOP is playing the democrats like you would play against Rondo behind the 3 point line. Just back off. Let him shoot because he can't hit a jumper for shit.

I was going to hit the lose button tomorrow morning but this convinced me. The Dems should win tomorrow. Good job everyone.
 
This just comes off as "4D chess, we are winning by losing!" nonsense.

Win a fucking election. Actually unseat republicans. They aren't going to give a fuck until Democrats are actually competent enough to do that.

Right now the GOP is playing the democrats like you would play against Rondo behind the 3 point line. Just back off. Let him shoot because he can't hit a jumper for shit.

Man, I can't believe how incompotent the Democrats are! They cannot win an election explicitly designed to be nearly impossible to win! What doofuses!
 

numble

Member
I thought CBO scores take about two weeks?

Isn't it almost too late to get a score before the 4th recess?

The reporting does not lead me to believe they can get something to the CBO today...

They can give the CBO information before the bill becomes public for them to start preparing preliminary analysis:
https://www.cbo.gov/about/processes

The second broad category of CBO’s work consists of informal cost estimates and other types of information produced to assist in the development of legislation. Those informal communications are preliminary because they do not undergo the same review procedures required for formal estimates. In some cases, they are provided for legislative proposals that are already public; in those situations, CBO’s analysis is available to any interested party in the Congress. In other cases, they are prepared when Members or their staffs are evaluating alternative proposals to accomplish their goals, have not made any specific proposals public, and need the flexibility to modify their proposals before they become public, sometimes in response to CBO’s preliminary estimates. In fact, CBO’s analysts often provide informal, preliminary estimates to committee staff for a broad range of legislative options, allowing the consideration of different approaches before a specific legislative path is decided upon. In such situations, CBO recognizes that the confidentiality of its work is critical to committee deliberations, so it keeps its informal estimates confidential as long as the proposals are not made public.
 

kirblar

Member
This is an insane rundown of the 2016 electorate and the changes within it- https://www.voterstudygroup.org/reports/2016-elections/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond

Still reading it but here are the takeaways along with some charts that back up other analyses we've seen
The primary conflict structuring the two parties involves questions of national identity, race, and morality, while the traditional conflict over economics, though still important, is less divisive now than it used to be. This has the potential to reshape the party coalitions.

By making questions of national identity more salient, Donald Trump succeeded in winning over “populists” (socially conservative, economically liberal voters) who had previously voted for Democrats.

Among populists who voted for Obama, Clinton did terribly. She held onto only 6 in 10 of these voters (59 percent). Trump picked up 27 percent of these voters, and the remaining 14 percent didn’t vote for either major party candidate.

To the extent that the Democratic Party is divided, these divisions are more about faith in the political system and general disaffection than they are about issue positions.

By contrast, Republican voters are more clearly split. For the most part, Trump and Cruz supporters look fairly similar, though Cruz supporters are considerably more conservative on moral issues, and notably less concerned about inequality and the social safety net, and more pro- free trade. Kasich supporters are the true moderates, caught in between the two parties on almost every issue, both economic and social.

In both parties, the donor class is both more conservative on economic issues and more liberal on social issues, as compared to the rest of the party

Democrats may be pressured to move further left on identity issues, given that both younger voters and the party’s donor class are quite far to the left on identity issues. If so, American politics would become further polarized along questions of culture and identity.
(note: all axes are traditional US left<->right)
figure8_drutman_e4aabc39aab12644609701bbacdff252.png
----
The original Axios article says that negotiations are still ongoing and the bill hasn't even been sent to the CBO yet. Doesn't seem possible to vote before the 4th.
Yeah, they're out of time.
 

Blader

Member
The original estimate for the score is two weeks, so where are they getting the one week timeline from?

They've been submitting pieces of the bill to the CBO as they write it, which I guess makes scoring the whole bill faster.

It's disappointing if he loses. There's no spinning a good showing right now. That's the fault of the party for setting up the expectation and assuring people they would win this.

The party basically ignored other special elections and banked everything on this one. It's a poor showing if it's a lose because it's a sign that they don't know what the fuck they are doing, where to invest resources appropriately, or how to win.

Maybe because GA-6 is a much more winnable race than fucking Kansas or Montana? If I had a finite amount of resources to throw into a campaign, I would also choose the one in the least conservative area with the candidate who is actually leading in the polls (far as I know, Thompson and Quist never once had a polling lead).
 
Yeah. But get ready for a flood of doomsday posts because a Democrat couldn't win a super-safe R+8 seat.

we are going to need to win seats like R+8 or more in order to take the house. And even more solid R areas, not to win the senate but just maintain the seats we already have.

If GA-6 is a super difficult, safe R seat that just spells a bigger problem. What is the base and what does a "winnable" seat look like? It just says the actual democratic voter base is too small too heavily concentrated in certain areas to form reliable majorities regardless of how terrible the opposition is at governing.
 

Holmes

Member
K6xA3zI.png


That sucks, if justices by 5-4 were willing to put a stay on the district court decision finding partisan gerrymandering unconstitutional, then it is hard to see them ruling against the gerrymandering.
Predicting how SCOTUS will rule based on whether or not they stayed a lower court ruling is really pointless.
 

Blader

Member
Speaking of Ossoff

(((Harry Enten)))&#8207;Verified account @ForecasterEnten 1h1 hour ago
More
Final 3 week polling avg in primary had Ossoff at 46% w/ undecideds allocated. (Got 48%) Final 3 week polling avg in runoff has him 51%.

(((Harry Enten)))&#8207;Verified account @ForecasterEnten 1h1 hour ago
More
Replying to @ForecasterEnten
That continues to make Ossoff a slight favorite in the runoff (as opposed to primary where he was an underdog), but it's too close to call.
 
They've been submitting pieces of the bill to the CBO as they write it, which I guess makes scoring the whole bill faster.

But wait, that makes no sense. the revised AHCA passed the House on May 4th, and it was not much different that the first version the CBO scored.

The CBO score in that second version took 20 days to complete.

Unless they have included the CBO on day one, there's no way for a score next week.

we are going to need to win seats like R+8 or more in order to take the house. And even more solid R areas, not to win the senate but just maintain the seats we already have.

If GA-6 is a super difficult, safe R seat that just spells a bigger problem. What is the base and what does a "winnable" seat look like? It just says the actual democratic voter base is too small too heavily concentrated in certain areas to form reliable majorities regardless of how terrible the opposition is at governing.

Please do some research before claiming things. If Democrats win all R+7 (not R+8) seats held by Republicans, the Democrats emerge with a larger majority than the Republicans have now.
 

numble

Member
But wait, that makes no sense. the revised AHCA passed the House on May 4th, and it was not much different that the first version the CBO scored.

The CBO score in that second version took 20 days to complete.

Unless they have included the CBO on day one, there's no way for a score next week.
The CBO only took 1 day to score amendments to the first AHCA.

Amendments posted on March 22, CBO score on March 23:
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52516
 
HOLY SHIT

Anthony Crupi&#8207;
@crupicrupicrupi

Megyn Kelly's interview with Alex Jones was out-rated by 30% in the A25-54 demo by a repeat of America's Funniest Home Videos on ABC.

Also

Phil Mattingly&#8207;Verified account @Phil_Mattingly 1h1 hour ago
NEW: Starting tonight Dems will start objecting unanimous consent requests in the Senate, blocking Senate work over health care process
Good
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Please do some research before claiming things. If Democrats win all R+7 (not R+8) seats held by Republicans, the Democrats emerge with a larger majority than the Republicans have now.

I'm curious--has anyone done any searching on how many of these districts are actually that close? I haven't seen it anywhere.
 
But wait, that makes no sense. the revised AHCA passed the House on May 4th, and it was not much different that the first version the CBO scored.

The CBO score in that second version took 20 days to complete.

Unless they have included the CBO on day one, there's no way for a score next week.



Please do some research before claiming things. If Democrats win all R+7 (not R+8) seats held by Republicans, the Democrats emerge with a larger majority than the Republicans have now.

That isn't a guarantee with how it will turn out in practice with the way the map is currently gerrymandered. Especially considering how much money has been dumped by the party on this race, races like this need to be won and the party needs to show its capable of winning districts like it if they want to get the turnout and donations they'll need in the midterms.
 

kirblar

Member
Good find, going to look at this today
The complaints about "identity politics" and "elites"? They're linked-
In both parties, this donor class is both more conservative on economic issues and more liberal on social issues, as compared to the rest of the party. However, there is a slight but notable asymmetry between the two parties on identity issues. Among Democrats, the donor class is notably to the left of the working class on these issues. Among Republicans, the donor class is also to the left of the working class on identity issues, but only slightly. This suggests that Democrats could feel more pressure to move to the left on identity issues, while Republicans will stay where they are, further polarizing the parties on identity issues.
 

studyguy

Member
Sounds like it went over pretty poorly.


https://twitter.com/crupicrupicrupi/status/876789971562233856
Anthony Crupi (@crupicrupicrupi)
If the overnights are anything to go by, few watched Megyn Kelly's i/v w/ Alex Jones. Did a 2.6 rating/5 share, down from premiere's 4.3/8.

https://twitter.com/crupicrupicrupi/status/876818291196612608
Anthony Crupi&#8207; @crupicrupicrupi · 2h2 hours ago
Megyn Kelly's Alex Jones interview eked out a series-low 3.53M viewers and a 0.7 in the A25-54 news demo, per Nielsen fast affiliate data.
 
That isn't a guarantee with how it will turn out in practice with the way the map is currently gerrymandered. Especially considering how much money has been dumped by the party on this race, races like this need to be won and the party needs to show its capable of winning districts like it if they want to get the turnout and donations they'll need in the midterms.

If we're going to discount even basic seat-leaning data in discussion, you might as well claim Jeb will win all seats in 2018.

If you have actual evidence-based arguments, please let me know.

Otherwise there is nothing but bullshit doom and gloom behind your claim.
 
I don't think there's any benefit to Ossoff losing. It reminds me a little too much of the "we actually want to lose the Senate so we can run against Congress in 2016" takes from 2014 (it sure would be awfully nice had we held onto the Senate then so we could have it now). This is the kind of district we should be winning if we want to take the House.

I'd frankly rather the Republicans be panicking, because (a) it might actually make them more timid legislatively and (b) it could hurt their recruiting, cause a wave of retirements, etc. Parties in a panic don't actually tend to do things that improve their position.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
K6xA3zI.png


That sucks, if justices by 5-4 were willing to put a stay on the district court decision finding partisan gerrymandering unconstitutional, then it is hard to see them ruling against the gerrymandering.

I really don't see what in the constitution would actually prevent gerrymandering. States are given their own agency to decided how they elect their representatives.
 
I don't think there's any benefit to Ossoff losing. It reminds me a little too much of the "we actually want to lose the Senate so we can run against Congress in 2016" takes from 2014 (it sure would be awfully nice had we held onto the Senate then so we could have it now). This is the kind of district we should be winning if we want to take the House.

I'd frankly rather the Republicans be panicking, because (a) it might actually make them more timid legislatively and (b) it could hurt their recruiting, cause a wave of retirements, etc. Parties in a panic don't actually tend to do things that improve their position.

Nobody is claiming a benefit of he loses (except the people saying that could win back the senate, but those claims have been rare).

The thing I'm pushing back against is the idea this is a binary win/lose situation, beyond the seat at issue.

It is not disaster is he marginally loses. That points to good outcomes in 2018.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
The original Axios article says that negotiations are still ongoing and the bill hasn't even been sent to the CBO yet. Doesn't seem possible to vote before the 4th.

Parts of the bill HAVE been sent to the CBO to speed it up. According to reliable sources they started sending pages as soon as they could to shave time.
 

Vixdean

Member
I really don't see what in the constitution would actually prevent gerrymandering. States are given their own agency to decided how they elect their representatives.

15th Amendment broski, the whole point of these gerrymandering cases is that they are disenfranchising minority voters.
 
Nobody is claiming a benefit of he loses (except the people saying that could win back the senate, but those claims have been rare).

The thing I'm pushing back against is the idea this is a binary win/lose situation, beyond the seat at issue.

It is not disaster is he marginally loses. That points to good outcomes in 2018.

There is a notion sometimes expressed that we want the GOP to be complacent in 2018 and therefore it would be a silver lining to an Ossoff loss. See this post:

Honestly pretty much this.

A benefit of Ossoff losing would probably be that it may lull the GOP into a false sense of security for 2018.

I've also seen similar sentiment expressed in previous threads.

I won't panic if Ossoff loses, but I don't think keeping it close is as positive of a result as it was in KS-4 or MT-AL.
 
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