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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Kevinroc said:
They will have rammed a medicaid repeal through on 50 votes + VP. Honoring the system of 60? Fuck that noise. The GOP broke it.
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Well that's what I'm saying. Get to 60 and then nuke it anyway. Then you can let 10 senators off the hook for controversial bills.

Box of Kittens said:
Nah, nobody cares. I mean I just talked to a bunch of older white men in Rutherford, Ohio at both The Great American Pancake House and Rusty's, so you know it's a representative sample. They said they still supported Trump because he's going to bring back all the jobs that were lost when the ball bearing plant closed. Obviously nothing will make Trump's base turn against him therefore we should just concede every election until 2024 at least.
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Well fuck.
 
P

PBY

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
How do you guys think Dems should approach AHCA?

Should they put up an alternative that gets scored by CBO?

Any catchy slogans?
Click to expand...

I really think this is the time to propose a meticulously crafted Medicare for all bill.

Wont happen because the party is trash right now, but more importantly, crafting sweeping legislation like this take time and money that they likely don't have to burn given that it will be a merely symbolic bill.

I can't believe there isn't some off-the-shelf form of single payer or medicare for all though that they could leverage that someone has introduced prior, but that's beyond me.
 
H

Hindl

Member
Box of Kittens said:
Nah, nobody cares. I mean I just talked to a bunch of older white men in Rutherford, Ohio at both The Great American Pancake House and Rusty's, so you know it's a representative sample. They said they still supported Trump because he's going to bring back all the jobs that were lost when the ball bearing plant closed. Obviously nothing will make Trump's base turn against him therefore we should just concede every election until 2024 at least.
Click to expand...
Nothing will change with those people until their loved ones start dying and the jobs don't come back.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
PBY said:
I really think this is the time to propose a meticulously crafted Medicare for all bill.

Wont happen because the party is trash right now, but more importantly, crafting sweeping legislation like this take time and money that they likely don't have to burn given that it will be a merely symbolic bill.

I can't believe there isn't some off-the-shelf form of single payer or medicare for all though that they could leverage that someone has introduced prior, but that's beyond me.
Click to expand...

It's a bad idea to propose a *specific* solution, e.g. the-bill's-already-written solution, because an unknown quantity is almost always better than a known quantity (as true in politics as it is in the stock market or online dating). The more they know the more the GOP can peck at it, especially the tax increases it might require.

It is a very good idea to do something like "optional Medicaid buy-in for all." Something specific, but pithy enough that it can be a political chameleon until a bill's actually written.
 
S

Slacker

Member
Plinko said:
HE DROVE ON THE GREEN.

Rule #1 in golf is don't drive anywhere near the green.
Click to expand...

It really is amazing. We new the guy wasn't prepared to be President, but how the tapdancing hell does he not know how to be an old white businessman? Learn how to shake a hand properly and how to play golf!
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Box of Kittens said:
Nah, nobody cares. I mean I just talked to a bunch of older white men in Rutherford, Ohio at both The Great American Pancake House and Rusty's, so you know it's a representative sample. They said they still supported Trump because he's going to bring back all the jobs that were lost when the ball bearing plant closed. Obviously nothing will make Trump's base turn against him therefore we should just concede every election until 2024 at least.
Click to expand...

Don't give up, Rusty's is only R+7.

And I think it passes because there's no value in it failing. That would just mean Senators on record voting Yes for nothing.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
AntraxSuicide said:
Don't give up, Rusty's is only R+7.

And I think it passes because there's no value in it failing. That would just mean Senators on record voting Yes for nothing.
Click to expand...

If it's going to fail, it'll fail like the first House vote, and a band wagon of nos will start piling on

So even if they hold a vote, it wouldn't be 49 yeses, it would probably be like 25.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
Wouldn't Medicaid for all be more easily implemented?

Why is Medicare and Medicaid separate anyway? They do the same thing, the only difference is the demographics they tailor to...
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It would be, I think they just call it Medicare because it's slightly more popular. Less stigma surrounding healthcare for old people than healthcare for the dirty poors.
 
H

Hindl

Member
IggyChooChoo said:
People's loved ones are dying of overdoses in every single town in Ohio and Michigan.
Edit: in Louisville, KY, we had 151 overdoses in 4 days back in February. And we're not that big a city. http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/14/health/heroin-overdose-louisville-opioid-responders-eprise/index.html
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Yes and Trump campaigned on fixing the the heroin epidemic and healthcare. When he not only fixes neither, but makes each issue worse, that's the only thing that will wake these people up
 
R

Ryuuroden

Member
Lol, there's a retroactive capital gains tax cut in there to encourage investment. If its retroactive then basically people are being paid by the govt for investments they made last tax year. How is it possible to retroactively encourage investment? The answer is .......you can't, lol. Such a blatant tax cut for the rich.
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
Ryuuroden said:
Lol, there's a retroactive capital gains tax cut in there to encourage investment. If its retroactive then basically people are being paid by the govt for investments they made last tax year. How is it possible to retroactively encourage investment? The answer is .......you can't, lol. Such a blatant tax cut for the rich.
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In theory that money they get back is then invested. But we all know that is bullshit (it also begs the question as to why the gov't wouldn't make that investment directly).
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Also starting to simply believe republicans don't believe there will be reprisal. And perhaps they're right, given the election. Elections have consequences, Trump ran on repealing Obamacare and here we are. We'll see how it plays out.

In terms of "what's next" for healthcare policy, regardless of what happens to Obamacare: drastically increase Medicaid eligibility income thresholds, change the name, increase hospital reimbursement rates. Incremental push to Medicaid/Medicare for all.
 
L

LostMyNarbles

Member
This whole country is going to end up like Kansas. The Republican Party will financially ruin it, but people will keep putting them in office because of racism and religious nut jobs who want to tell people how to live their lives while simultaneously not wanting to be told how to live their lives.

This healthcare plan is truly sickening. I can only imagine what the tax plan will look like.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
LostMyNarbles said:
This whole country is going to end up like Kansas. The Republican Party will financially ruin it, but people will keep putting them in office because of racism and religious nut jobs who want to tell people how to live their lives while simultaneously not wanting to be told how to live their lives.

This healthcare plan is truly sickening. I can only imagine what the tax plan will look like.
Click to expand...

The rich blue states will be fine, just the rest of the country.

Cesare Borgia said:
Also starting to simply believe republicans don't believe there will be reprisal. And perhaps their right, given the election. Elections have consequences, Trump ran on repealing Obamacare and here we are. We'll see how it plays out.

In terms of "what's next" for healthcare policy, regardless of what happens to Obamacare: drastically increase Medicaid eligibility income thresholds, change the name, increase hospital reimbursement rates. Incremental push to Medicaid/Medicare for all.
Click to expand...
This is the point in the history books where the bulleted list "list of factors that caused the Democrat wave in 2018" starts.
 
D

dramatis

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Wouldn't Medicaid for all be more easily implemented?

Why is Medicare and Medicaid separate anyway? They do the same thing, the only difference is the demographics they tailor to...
Click to expand...
Not sure about easier implementation, but because Medicare belongs to the old people, it's untouchable, so it might be easier to hitch a ride on Medicare for All vs Medicaid for All.
 
B

Blader

Member
Plinko said:
People are saying there are no leaders in the party?
Click to expand...

I see that and "we need new blood" all the time and it's annoying as hell.

THAT'S WHAT ELECTIONS ARE FOR

Campaigning on jobs is fine, but if unemployment isn't bad, it's not a great campaign point. I think campaigning on a combination of "Medicaid is being destroyed and your premiums are STILL rising" and "Look at these massive tax cuts republicans gave to the rich and how you got pretty much nothing" will be a solid combination for 2018.
Click to expand...

I am confused about why jobs/unemployment is not a great campaign point when it's exactly the message that delivered Trump to the White House. Yes it was bullshit, in no small part because the jobless rate has been relatively good, but that's exactly why we should capitalize on that! There are a lot of Rust Belt voters, Obama voters or otherwise, who fell for what Trump was selling them and we should have candidates out there highlighting how Trump has not and will not restore their jobs.
 
D

daedalius

Member
LostMyNarbles said:
This whole country is going to end up like Kansas. The Republican Party will financially ruin it, but people will keep putting them in office because of racism and religious nut jobs who want to tell people how to live their lives while simultaneously not wanting to be told how to live their lives.

This healthcare plan is truly sickening. I can only imagine what the tax plan will look like.
Click to expand...

It had to get pretty bad in Kansas before they voted in slightly less awful republicans
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Reminder that Brownback won his initial election by over 30 points, then almost lost his seat four years later during what was otherwise a very strong Republican cycle in a deep red state. The lesson of Kansas isn't that voters don't punish poor performance.
 
D

dramatis

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Pelosi says there will be two voting rights bills introduced on day 1 of a Democratic majority.

https://mobile.twitter.com/srl/status/877898826152943617

This in addition to promising a $15 minimum wage within the first 100 hours a while back:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/25/democrats-2018-agenda-minimum-wage-increase-238828

New First 100 Hours plan coming together.
Click to expand...
If nothing else, the Dems are learning at least to be prepared with the legislation.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Pelosi says there will be two voting rights bills introduced on day 1 of a Democratic majority.

https://mobile.twitter.com/srl/status/877898826152943617

This in addition to promising a $15 minimum wage within the first 100 hours a while back:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/25/democrats-2018-agenda-minimum-wage-increase-238828

New First 100 Hours plan coming together.
Click to expand...

Good!

15 min wage is great.
Healthcare for all.

Now we need to add weed and college. Boom.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Blader said:
I am confused about why jobs/unemployment is not a great campaign point when it's exactly the message that delivered Trump to the White House. Yes it was bullshit, in no small part because the jobless rate has been relatively good, but that's exactly why we should capitalize on that! There are a lot of Rust Belt voters, Obama voters or otherwise, who fell for what Trump was selling them and we should have candidates out there highlighting how Trump has not and will not restore their jobs.
Click to expand...

Because I'm not sure what democrats have to offer there. What jobs are they going to talk about that brings back the Obama --> Trump voter? Are they going to believe that 4 years was enough for Trump to have fixed it, or are they just going to say "He didn't have enough time and democrats are obstructing" like he does. I lean toward the latter.

Aaron Strife said:
Pelosi says there will be two voting rights bills introduced on day 1 of a Democratic majority.

https://mobile.twitter.com/srl/status/877898826152943617

This in addition to promising a $15 minimum wage within the first 100 hours a while back:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/25/democrats-2018-agenda-minimum-wage-increase-238828

New First 100 Hours plan coming together.
Click to expand...

Love it.
 
S

Slacker

Member
I'm not the first to say this, but I agree with those who think AHCA will pass. Any hesitation from supposed "moderate" Republicans is 100% theater. They'll complain about something, a meaningless amendment will be added to appease them, and then they vote. And the GOP will allow two vulnerable senators to vote against it to help them during their next campaign.
 
A

Atomic Playboy

Member
Hindl said:
Yes and Trump campaigned on fixing the the heroin epidemic and healthcare. When he not only fixes neither, but makes each issue worse, that's the only thing that will wake these people up
Click to expand...

That won't even do it. These people are caught up in the cult of bullshit propaganda masquerading as news. The only thing that will change their mind is if Fox News and Breitbart start telling the truth. One headline proclaiming Democrats are making it easier to get heroin into this country and every single one of those people losing their loved ones to terrible GOP policy keeps right on voting Republican. You can't convince someone to leave a cult if they're still getting all their information from the leader.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Pelosi says there will be two voting rights bills introduced on day 1 of a Democratic majority.

https://mobile.twitter.com/srl/status/877898826152943617

This in addition to promising a $15 minimum wage within the first 100 hours a while back:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/25/democrats-2018-agenda-minimum-wage-increase-238828

New First 100 Hours plan coming together.
Click to expand...
What I like to hear.

First 100 hours is actually kinda catchy. It's not a slogan in and of itself but it's a nice turn of phrase.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Slacker said:
I'm not the first to say this, but I agree with those who think AHCA will pass. Any hesitation from supposed "moderate" Republicans is 100% theater. They'll complain about something, a meaningless amendment will be added to appease them, and then they vote. And the GOP will allow two vulnerable senators to vote against it to help them during their next campaign.
Click to expand...

Adding a last minute amendment to this bill and still have it pass by next week is pretty tricky, timing wise.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Atomic Playboy said:
That won't even do it. These people are caught up in the cult of bullshit propaganda masquerading as news. The only thing that will change their mind is if Fox News and Breitbart start telling the truth. One headline proclaiming Democrats are making it easier to get heroin into this country and every single one of those people losing their loved ones to terrible GOP policy keeps right on voting Republican. You can't convince someone to leave a cult if they're still getting all their information from the leader.
Click to expand...
I get the distress, but we're already stating to see the limitations of the propaganda machine. They tried to paper over Comey and their ratings plummeted.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
ShadowSwordmaster said:
Healthcare for all is not happening.
Click to expand...
Maybe it does maybe it doesn't but I absolutely expect Democrats to run on it in 2018 and 2020. This last... My God has it only been 5 months... Has been a pretty much total condemnation of the incremental approach. Particularly the Healthcare thing. Why go for the unpopular but achievable when the GOP is gonna fight just as hard to dismantle that as the wildly popular but impractical? Shoot for the moon, says I.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
Maybe it does maybe it doesn't but I absolutely expect Democrats to run on it in 2018 and 2020. This last... My God has it only been 5 months... Has been a pretty much total condemnation of the incremental approach. Particularly the Healthcare thing. Why go for the unpopular but achievable when the GOP is gonna fight just as hard to dismantle that as the wildly popular but impractical? Shoot for the moon, says I.
Click to expand...

I'd go further than that.

If the Dems DONT run on it, then they've made a huge fucking mistake.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
In 2008, healthcare was a mess and it was a major campaign issue for Obama.

This bill makes healthcare worse than it was in 2008. Which will make the call for healthcare reform louder and stronger.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Dave Weigel
@daveweigel
Actual Cruz/Paul/Johnson/Lee statement makes it clear most (prob not Paul) can come around.
Click to expand...

DC8ayfTW0AIpqOd.jpg:small


https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/877949916223381506

So yeah, don't count on them voting it down.
 
B

BoogieWoogie

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
In 2008, healthcare was a mess and it was a major campaign issue for Obama.

This bill makes healthcare worse than it was in 2008. Which will make the call for healthcare reform louder and stronger.
Click to expand...

And then everyone will become complacent again and "protest vote" to welcome someone worse than Trump to destroy it all again.
 
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