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[Aaron Strife]

If AHCA passes, Democrats should come out with a fully new healthcare reform bill. Doesn't have to be single-payer, doesn't have to be ACA, but something that achieves universal coverage I think is essential.

If it fails, politically it's far easier (and imo more prudent) to come out with a bill that allows Medicaid/Medicare buy-in and beefs up subsidies to the point where everyone is covered. Healthcare legislation is complicated and I don't want it eating up a lot of our time, but if AHCA is in effect we might as well be starting from scratch.

 

[Hindl]

Well that's that

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Sure it is

It probably wasn't any time soon before the AHCA, but the GOP made sure that it was accelerated into a prime 2020 issue.

Why not?

You need to fix everything that the GOP is doing. Saying that you want it if a very easy thing to say but it's going to be a lot harder to make it work.

based on his posts from yesterday it'll be because the republicans won't like it

And look at is happening now. GOP hated ACA and campaign on it. You don't think they will do it again when the Dems do it. If sorry if my posts of the Republicans hating the idea is a dumb but these fuckers run on hate and masters at it.

 

[Diablos]

This won't last.

So are they a packaged deal? Seems like it

4 confirmed Yeas

 

[Barzul]

Vox spoke to a GOP congressman that voted for the house bill

The way I look at is there is no question we're getting inundated with calls and emails and protests. There is all this energy and anger on the left. The people who lost are the ones who are angry. We won the entire elected government. So I remind my staff after a long day of hostile calls, it was less than six months we got more votes than a person on the other side in [my state]. The people who voted for me are still out there.

I don't know whether we're going to get to 50 or not. One thing I would suggest, if you think about the Senators that have heartburn about this, and you go down the list and look at the states they're from, it will be hard for a lot of people to vote no. ... I definitely don't like everything. I'm probably going to support it. It's going to be really hard to explain to your Republican constituents who elected you that you couldn't support the thing you've been campaigning on.

https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/6/22/15853402/gop-health-plan-protest-quote

In a way it makes sense. They can fuck over their constituents and be rewarded for it so why even try. And if you do you're on an island by yourself. Almost feels like there's no way out. The fact that Kansas keeps voting Republican should be all you need to know. I truly that Demographic change happens as predicted because we're in for a long ride of hyper-partisanship till about 2028 in my eyes.

 

[tedrotheredro]

Who believes that statement from those clowns? I guess 1/6 of our economy and people's health is just a game to these guys.

 

[PBY]

You need to fix everything that the GOP is doing. Saying that you want it if a very easy thing to say but it's going to be a lot harder to make it work.


And look at is happening now. GOP hated ACA and campaign on it. You don't think they will do it again when the Dems do it. If sorry if my posts of the Republicans hating the idea is a dumb but these fuckers run on hate and masters at it.

You know what you CAN'T run on? Tax credits, exchange thresholds, and marketplace tweaks.

HEALTHCARE. FOR. ALL.

That's it. Keep it simple. Run on big ideas.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/877949916223381506

So yeah, don't count on them voting it down.

Like they would ever lower cost. Lowering costs would mean insurance or providers earn less money.

 

[dakini]

Has this been posted yet lol?

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article157374229.html

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/128493813319733248

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/734442223480147968

 

[Macho Madness]

Like they would ever lower cost. Lowering costs would mean insurance or providers earn less money.

Lowering cost to them means insurance plans with $20,000 deductibles that cover nothing but only costs you $10/month

 

[smokeymicpot]

Who believes that statement from those clowns? I guess 1/6 of our economy and people's health is just a game to these guys.

It is just a win for them.

 

[Wilsongt]

Has this been posted yet lol?

Granted, someone else probably runs his Twitter account.

 

[Blader]

What a pointless statement. Why even say anything at all?

You need to fix everything that the GOP is doing. Saying that you want it if a very easy thing to say but it's going to be a lot harder to make it work.


And look at is happening now. GOP hated ACA and campaign on it. You don't think they will do it again when the Dems do it. If sorry if my posts of the Republicans hating the idea is a dumb but these fuckers run on hate and masters at it.

Republicans are going to hate any law that Democrats pass or campaign on. That should not be in a consideration in anyone's mind.

 

[Macho Madness]

What a pointless statement. Why even say anything at all?

They're basically saying it doesn't gut enough from the poor. It's gross.

 

[kirblar]

It's happening.

Yup.

If it was Murkowski/Collins/Paul it wouldn't be. This is not the group you want "opposing" it.

 

[pigeon]

What a pointless statement. Why even say anything at all?

Their hope is that if people think the bill is doomed to fail they will be less angry about it, so they want to make sure it looks doomed up until it passes.

 

[PBY]

Yall shit on me when I said this would pass 2 months ago.


Here we are.


I'm not pessimistic out of spite or pure negativity. But the GOP consistently picks the worst possible option without regard to protest or bipartisanship.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I am sure that Bernie does not run nor exert much monitoring over his Twitter account. He probably DOESN'T know Tim Canova except as a name of someone who supports him.

 

[Emerson]

4 conservative senators saying no now and that's not even considering any on the more moderate side? If some of the Collins/Murkowski/Flake/Heller come out saying no then how exactly are they going to reconcile that?

I'm not putting any money on the integrity of the GOP but I seriously don't think this is as much of a done deal as you guys think. And if 2 or 3 of the more moderate Senators put out a statement today I'd lean even further that way.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yup.

If it was Murkowski/Collins/Paul it wouldn't be. This is not the group you want "opposing" it.

I think a lot of people don't realize that this is absolutely not the group you want against the bill.

This is way too close to actual Obamacare for them to like it. And they changes they'll want will likely take longer than next week to implement.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Lowering cost to them means insurance plans with $20,000 deductibles that cover nothing but only costs you $10/month

Dems could use #FakeInsurance?

Tho, im the type of person that doesn't like the concept of insurance to begin with, but I'd rather have Obamacare than anything the right pulls out of their ass.

 

[kirblar]

The Dems have been running on Universal Healthcare for ages.

Universal Healthcare != Single Payer!

I think a lot of people don't realize that this is absolutely not the group you want against the bill.

This is way too close to actual Obamacare for them to like it. And they changes they'll want will likely take longer than next week to implement.

They're not actually against it. This is theatre.

 

[daedalius]

It is just a win for them.

Winning is all they care about, policy be damned

 

[BoogieWoogie]

I'm not putting any money on the integrity of the GOP but I seriously don't think this is as much of a done deal as you guys think.

See you in two weeks when it passes with flying colors!

 

[Vixdean]

4 conservative senators saying no now and that's not even considering any on the more moderate side? If some of the Collins/Murkowski/Flake/Heller come out saying no then how exactly are they going to reconcile that?

I'm not putting any money on the integrity of the GOP but I seriously don't think this is as much of a done deal as you guys think. And if 2 or 3 of the more moderate Senators put out a statement today I'd lean even further that way.

The problem is that the moderate Republican is a myth. They are only moderate in the sense that they don't go around saying "legitimate rape" and "someone else's babies", but they'll happily vote for whatever shit is shoveled in front of them by the leadership.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

They're not actually against it. This is theatre.

I'm not entirely sure it is. If it was moderates, sure, whatever, but these folks are from the same mold as the ones who killed it the first time around.

The Tea Party holds their ground. Cruz and co wanted way more out of this and they're not getting it.

The FC doesn't do theater.

 

[PBY]

I think a lot of people don't realize that this is absolutely not the group you want against the bill.

This is way too close to actual Obamacare for them to like it. And they changes they'll want will likely take longer than next week to implement.

This is why they say this. Why would you believe a single thing they say.

 

[chadskin]

See you in two weeks when it passes with flying colors!

rosegarden_ceremony_trump_gop_senators_champaign_bottles.jpeg

 

[Emerson]

The problem is that the moderate Republican is a myth. They are only moderate in the sense that they don't go around saying "legitimate rape" and "someone else's babies", but they'll happily vote for whatever shit is shoveled in front of them by the leadership.

And women like Collins and Murkowski who have a history of opposing cuts to Planned Parenthood?

 

[royalan]

Granted, someone else probably runs his Twitter account.

I'm pretty sure he mentioned Time Canova in interviews.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This is why they say this. Why would you believe a single thing they say.

Because the FC has killed this bill before and have shut down the government multiple times over trivial crap? And forced out Boehner because they were impossible to work with?

 

[Blader]

Vox spoke to a GOP congressman that voted for the house bill





https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/6/22/15853402/gop-health-plan-protest-quote

In a way it makes sense. They can fuck over their constituents and be rewarded for it so why even try. And if you do you're on an island by yourself. Almost feels like there's no way out. The fact that Kansas keeps voting Republican should be all you need to know. I truly that Demographic change happens as predicted because we're in for a long ride of hyper-partisanship till about 2028 in my eyes.

I've been saying this over and over again: Hill Republicans DO NOT CARE about the protests, the emails, the phone calls, the town halls, or the bad poll after bad poll showing how unpopular this bill is. That pressure and that anger from constituents is not a part of their calculus on this.

They're basically saying it doesn't gut enough from the poor. It's gross.

But they didn't even say that. It's a nothing statement. "We don't like it but we're open to liking it sometime soon." It's the ultimate in empty posturing, but it's Ted Cruz, so of course it is.

 

[Box of Kittens]

The fact that Kansas keeps voting Republican should be all you need to know.

This is a huge oversimplification. First off, Kansas is not representative of the country as a whole. Second, the Kansas Republican Party is highly factional, so a lot of nuance is missed by simply looking at the R by the name. Third, Republicans (and particularly conservative Republicans) have been doing worse in Kansas ever since Brownback's "reforms." Trump doesn't exactly have the cushion that Brownback did.

 

[PBY]

Because the FC has killed this bill before and have shut down the government multiple times over trivial crap? And forced out Boehner because they were impossible to work with?

They're not going to be the reason Obamacare isn't repealed.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

They're not going to be the reason Obamacare isn't repealed.

They already were. They have already established that they are ready and willing to blow the entire thing up.

They don't care at all if they're the ones who kill it.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

You know what you CAN'T run on? Tax credits, exchange thresholds, and marketplace tweaks.

HEALTHCARE. FOR. ALL.

That's it. Keep it simple. Run on big ideas.

Alright then.

What a pointless statement. Why even say anything at all?



Republicans are going to hate any law that Democrats pass or campaign on. That should not be in a consideration in anyone's mind.

It is when the Dems are trying to defend it. This is what I'm trying to say. The Dems need to defend the idea of Healthcare for all from the GOP and right wing media. I do not trust the Dems to successfully do that considering the state they are in.

 

[Grym]

They're not going to be the reason Obamacare isn't repealed.

Isn't that exactly what the House-side Freedom Caucus did the first go round?

 

[Blader]

They already were. They have already established that they are ready and willing to blow the entire thing up.

...and then immediately renegotiate for something worse and get that passed.

 

[PBY]

They already were. They have already established that they are ready and willing to blow the entire thing up.

They don't care at all if they're the ones who kill it.

You're just wrong here, sorry.

If they actually thought this, the statement would be worded differently. Would obviously love to be wrong, but this is holding on to stupid hope imo.

 

[kirblar]

They already were. They have already established that they are ready and willing to blow the entire thing up.

They don't care at all if they're the ones who kill it.

Uh.... did you miss them coming back and ramming a bill through the house that bowed to their demands?

 

[Futurevoid]

If AHCA passes, Democrats should come out with a fully new healthcare reform bill. Doesn't have to be single-payer, doesn't have to be ACA, but something that achieves universal coverage I think is essential.

This is what irks me - why isn't that out there RIGHT NOW? Why do Democrats need to wait for the passage of this garbage to release a functional repair bill for the ACA? That should have been in the hands of the public when the House bill was being created. Is it possible to have such a bill scored by the CBO?

Having party leaders out there saying "Listen, we know the ACA isn't perfect and it needs fixed"....and then having nothing to show the American public about how they intend to fix it is laughable.

 

[Emerson]

...and then immediately renegotiate for something worse and get that passed.

That's really not what happened.

After the first House vote failed, they very clearly really believed it was over. It was only resurrected later because Trump most likely pressured them to. Ryan thought it was over and went on TV saying Obamacare was the law of the land for the foreseeable future. It wasn't all some evil genius plan to fail once and then sneak it through again.

 

[Blader]

Isn't that exactly what the House-side Freedom Caucus did the first go round?

Yes, and they took a ton of heat for it. Meadows, Jordan, and Labrador were specially called out by Trump on Twitter over it!

It is not a coincidence that it was the Freedom Caucus that immediately wanted to restart negotiations on AHCA. They're the ones responsible for killing the bill the first time but are also responsible for passing it the second time.

(Incidentally, the bill would've passed the first time had Ryan not pulled it so quickly. Pence had won over enough HFC members on the first draft of the bill that morning, but the message didn't get to Ryan quickly enough.)

That's really not what happened.

After the first House vote failed, they very clearly really believed it was over. It was only resurrected later because Trump most likely pressured them to. Ryan thought it was over and went on TV saying Obamacare was the law of the land for the foreseeable future. It wasn't all some evil genius plan.

Trump did not pressure them, he was ready to move on to taxes and infrastructure. It was Pence and the HFC who kept working at it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

...and then immediately renegotiate for something worse and get that passed.

Uh.... did you miss them coming back and ramming a bill through the house that bowed to their demands?

It took a month to do that

They don't have time for a grand negotiation to get the FC back on board.

You're just wrong here, sorry.

If they actually thought this, the statement would be worded differently. Would obviously love to be wrong, but this is holding on to stupid hope imo.

We already know Paul is a hard no. So one of the people in the statement is already not going to change their mind.

These are exactly the senators we want hating the bill because they're the least likely to change their minds without significant changes to the bill that there's no time for.

 

[PBY]

This is what irks me - why isn't that out there RIGHT NOW? Why do Democrats need to wait for the passage of this garbage to release a functional repair bill for the ACA? That should have been in the hands of the public when the House bill was being created.

Having party leaders out there saying "Listen, we know the ACA isn't perfect and it needs fixed"....and then having nothing to show the American public about how they intend to fix it is useless.

It isn't out there because the Dems are actually doing a shit job right now, but moreso, its really expensive and hard to draft legislation and congressional offices are resource starved in a way that makes it difficult.

 

[Emerson]

Yes, and they took a ton of heat for it. Meadows, Jordan, and Labrador were specially called out by Trump on Twitter over it!

Trump did not pressure them, he was ready to move on to taxes and infrastructure. It was Pence and the HFC who kept working at it.

??

 

[Blader]

??

Attacking people on Twitter =/= legislating

By all accounts, Trump was ready to move on. Pence asked if he could keep working at it with the HFC, and Trump said yeah sure. That's not the directive of a man with his hands on the wheel.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

??

I don't have the tweet with me but I do remember Labrador saying that.

 

[CygnusXS]

I'm more convinced than ever that those tapes exist.

 

[Wilsongt]

I'm pretty sure he mentioned Time Canova in interviews.

But Bernie is infallable!