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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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B

BoogieWoogie

Banned
Emerson said:
Are we also forgetting the reports that McConnell intended to bring this to a vote regardless of whether he had the votes or not?
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McConnell:

tumblr_mto1lq2AA21qmk3pno1_500.gif
 
V

Vixdean

Member
Plinko said:
I'm 99% certain it's theater and this passes.



If democrats don't run on health care as their number one issue in 2018, they're led by morons.
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Meh, at the end of the day, this primarily affects people on the individual market. Democrats can run on it but as long most folks getting their insurance through their employer don't see much disruption, that message will fall on deaf ears. Unless they just go full FUD like the GOP did after Obamacare passed.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Makai said:
A low information voter hasn't seen criticism of Hillary because they're not following politics at all. The bar is whether they can correctly identify which party is liberal and which is conservative.
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I'm sure that's the case for some. However, there's what 200 million + that are eligible to vote? I would presume a significant chunk of low info went in believing something and heard stuff.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Vixdean said:
Meh, at the end of the day, this primarily affects people on the individual market. Democrats can run on it but as long most folks getting their insurance through their employer don't see much disruption, that message will fall on deaf ears. Unless they just go full FUD like the GOP did after Obamacare passed.
Click to expand...

You seem to be missing the part where everything about this bill is ridiculously unpopular. There is no constituency for what they're doing. None.

And yes, if it strips away the employer mandate and essential benefits coverage, it effects people on employer care.
 
N

Nelo Ice

Banned
Blader said:
Does this guy even know his own own religion? Granted, I was bad at church as a kid, but I don't remember a single thing about Abraham taking us all to a new world after we die. Like, what?!
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He's Christian but I think it was Abraham might be wrong. He just kept going on about stuff like and also said last election Hillary was also a devil then when I brought up Trump being a traitor he said Obama was a traitor too.
 
V

Vixdean

Member
Macho Madness said:
You seem to be missing the part where everything about this bill is ridiculously unpopular. There is no constituency for what they're doing. None.

And yes, if it strips away the employer mandate and essential benefits coverage, it effects people on employer care.
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Again, this stuff matters to people who pay close attention to policy, but the sort of low information moderates that the Democrats need to get to the polls simply don't care. I've spent 6 years trying to get one of my buddies to understand that you can't compare premiums pre-Obamacare to today because you're getting a much better product that covers more with less restrictions. He doesn't care, the only thing he ever talks about is "but muh premiums went up".
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Vixdean said:
Again, this stuff matters to people who pay close attention to policy, but the sort of low information moderates that the Democrats need to get to the polls simply don't care. I've spent 6 years trying to get one of my buddies to understand that you can't compare premiums pre-Obamacare to today because you're getting a much better product that covers more with less restrictions. He doesn't care, the only thing he ever talks about is "but muh premiums went up".
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Umm yeah I don't think the Democrats are going to win people who still think Obamacare was a bad idea. That's true. Winning over Republicans probably isn't going to work. Though, more people are going to be harshly negatively effected by this bill than were negatively effected by Obamacare.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
Vixdean said:
Meh, at the end of the day, this primarily affects people on the individual market. Democrats can run on it but as long most folks getting their insurance through their employer don't see much disruption, that message will fall on deaf ears. Unless they just go full FUD like the GOP did after Obamacare passed.
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No way. This cuts Medicaid insanely. Here in Kentucky, home of the 3rd-highest overdose death rate in the country, the bill stands to cut Medicaid funding for drug treatment by 61%. And that's just drug treatment. This bill goes way beyond just fucking people on the individual market.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
The bill is incredibly unpopular. We have empirical evidence people care. Especially if we keep making noise from now until the midterms the attacks practically write themselves.

And it isn't just about getting moderates to vote for us, it's also about motivating our voters to go to the polls, knock on doors, etc. This absolutely is a winning issue for us. I mean, if we don't run on health care, what do we run on?
 
S

smokeandmirrors

Banned
Box of Kittens said:
The bill is incredibly unpopular. We have empirical evidence people care. Especially if we keep making noise from now until the midterms the attacks practically write themselves.

And it isn't just about getting moderates to vote for us, it's also about motivating our voters to go to the polls, knock on doors, etc. This absolutely is a winning issue for us. I mean, if we don't run on health care, what do we run on?
Click to expand...

The winning strategy is clearly "Not Trump"
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Box of Kittens said:
The bill is incredibly unpopular. We have empirical evidence people care. Especially if we keep making noise from now until the midterms the attacks practically write themselves.

And it isn't just about getting moderates to vote for us, it's also about motivating our voters to go to the polls, knock on doors, etc. This absolutely is a winning issue for us. I mean, if we don't run on health care, what do we run on?
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Tax cuts for me

I mean Hillary ran on Obamacare. No1care is maybe the better term.
 
B

BoogieWoogie

Banned
Y2Kev said:
Tax cuts for me

I mean Hillary ran on Obamacare. No1care is maybe the better term.
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Yeah in a nutshell. They can say they give a shit when someone directly confronts them but then vote against it at the end of the day. Much like these "moderate" "caring" Republicans.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Trump ran on the idea that he was going to come up with the best health care plan ever. It's a little different when there is an actual terrible bill instead of vague notions of everyone will have great coverage because there's going to be so much competition.

Also, you do realize that midterms are all about turning out your voters right?
 
V

Vixdean

Member
IggyChooChoo said:
No way. This cuts Medicaid insanely. Here in Kentucky, home of the 3rd-highest overdose death rate in the country, the bill stands to cut Medicaid funding for drug treatment by 61%. And that's just drug treatment. This bill goes way beyond just fucking people on the individual market.
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Pro tip: impoverished overdosing drug addicts don't vote. I know this sounds callous but if people on Medicaid actually voted then we'd never hear about cuts to it ever again. See: Medicare.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Blader said:
but how we can be led by morons when we HAVE NO LEADERS



I mean, I don't think campaigning to Rust Belt Obama-Trump voters who flipped because they were promised jobs and highlighting how Trump isn't delivering for them isn't bad?
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Because those aren't the voters who matter in 2018! Not where the party's going to see growth, and it's not the right message when jobless claims are at decade-long lows.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
Vixdean said:
Pro tip: impoverished overdosing drug addicts don't vote. I know this sounds callous but if people on Medicaid actually voted then we'd never hear about cuts to it ever again. See: Medicare.
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It doesn't sound callous, just wrongheaded and somewhat patronizing. Sure, drug addicts don't vote. But they come from all kinds of families in all sorts of circumstances across the community, and those people do vote. Highlighting these stupid, cruel cuts in this the height of the opioid epidemic is good politics.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Box of Kittens said:
The bill is incredibly unpopular. We have empirical evidence people care. Especially if we keep making noise from now until the midterms the attacks practically write themselves.

And it isn't just about getting moderates to vote for us, it's also about motivating our voters to go to the polls, knock on doors, etc. This absolutely is a winning issue for us. I mean, if we don't run on health care, what do we run on?
Click to expand...

This.

Blader said:
but how we can be led by morons when we HAVE NO LEADERS



I mean, I don't think campaigning to Rust Belt Obama-Trump voters who flipped because they were promised jobs and highlighting how Trump isn't delivering for them isn't bad?
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People are saying there are no leaders in the party?

Campaigning on jobs is fine, but if unemployment isn't bad, it's not a great campaign point. I think campaigning on a combination of "Medicaid is being destroyed and your premiums are STILL rising" and "Look at these massive tax cuts republicans gave to the rich and how you got pretty much nothing" will be a solid combination for 2018.

Edit: Aaaaand a dp. Ugh. Not a good day.
 
G

Got the Shakes

Member
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 2m2 minutes ago
More
With all of the recently reported electronic surveillance, intercepts, unmasking and illegal leaking of information, I have no idea...

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3m3 minutes ago
More
...whether there are "tapes" or recordings of my conversations with James Comey, but I did not make, and do not have, any such recordings.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/877932907137966080
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Well if AHCA passes we need to find the best possible candidates in Alaska, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana and West Virginia in 2020 to run on a "holy shit these Medicaid cuts."

Mark Begich comeback, one of the Beshears (Andy or Steve), Mitch Landrieu (or Mary comeback)... Earl Ray Tomblin? Not sure who we could run in Arkansas. Then Steve Bullock in Montana and we move out of the heavily Romney/Trump states (Maine, Georgia, Iowa, Colorado, North Carolina, maybe Texas).

Goal for 2020 should be a 60 seat majority. And then we nuke the filibuster anyway.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Well if AHCA passes we need to find the best possible candidates in Alaska, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana and West Virginia in 2020 to run on a "holy shit these Medicaid cuts."

Mark Begich comeback, one of the Beshears (Andy or Steve), Mitch Landrieu (or Mary comeback)... Earl Ray Tomblin? Not sure who we could run in Arkansas. Then Steve Bullock in Montana and we move out of the heavily Romney/Trump states (Maine, Georgia, Iowa, Colorado, North Carolina, maybe Texas).

Goal for 2020 should be a 60 seat majority. And then we nuke the filibuster anyway.
Click to expand...

All those people won't be blessed by thy holyness that is Bernie Sanders.
 
K

Kevinroc

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Well if AHCA passes we need to find the best possible candidates in Alaska, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana and West Virginia in 2020 to run on a "holy shit these Medicaid cuts."

Mark Begich comeback, one of the Beshears (Andy or Steve), Mitch Landrieu (or Mary comeback)... Earl Ray Tomblin? Not sure who we could run in Arkansas. Then Steve Bullock in Montana and we move out of the heavily Romney/Trump states (Maine, Georgia, Iowa, Colorado, North Carolina, maybe Texas).

Goal for 2020 should be a 60 seat majority. And then we nuke the filibuster anyway.
Click to expand...

They will have rammed a medicaid repeal through on 50 votes + VP. Honoring the system of 60? Fuck that noise. The GOP broke it.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Well if AHCA passes we need to find the best possible candidates in Alaska, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana and West Virginia in 2020 to run on a "holy shit these Medicaid cuts."

Mark Begich comeback, one of the Beshears (Andy or Steve), Mitch Landrieu (or Mary comeback)... Earl Ray Tomblin? Not sure who we could run in Arkansas. Then Steve Bullock in Montana and we move out of the heavily Romney/Trump states (Maine, Georgia, Iowa, Colorado, North Carolina, maybe Texas).

Goal for 2020 should be a 60 seat majority. And then we nuke the filibuster anyway.
Click to expand...

I want to say Mitch Landrieu might be doomed statewide because of what he's (rightfully) done as mayor re: Confederate statues.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
I'm still confused. My general assumption tends to be that McConnell and Pelosi are the smartest leaders in Washington at all times, so this process makes no sense. Does McConnell want the bill to fail? Not qualifying for the Hyde Amendment is a good way to do that. Even if Pence were to waive the Parliamentarian, are religious House members going to simply rubber stamp that decision when the bill is sent back to them? No.

I've also wondered if this is all parlor tricks. Republicans pretend they're in the dark in order to hide the process more effectively, pass the shit as quickly as possible after the CBO and move on.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Begich might work but if Bill Walker has decent favorability Byron Mallot is another possibility for the Alaska seat. He would also be our first Native senator, I think, which would be cool.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Well if AHCA passes we need to find the best possible candidates in Alaska, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana and West Virginia in 2020 to run on a "holy shit these Medicaid cuts."

Mark Begich comeback, one of the Beshears (Andy or Steve), Mitch Landrieu (or Mary comeback)... Earl Ray Tomblin? Not sure who we could run in Arkansas. Then Steve Bullock in Montana and we move out of the heavily Romney/Trump states (Maine, Georgia, Iowa, Colorado, North Carolina, maybe Texas).

Goal for 2020 should be a 60 seat majority. And then we nuke the filibuster anyway.
Click to expand...

Nah, nobody cares. I mean I just talked to a bunch of older white men in Rutherford, Ohio at both The Great American Pancake House and Rusty's, so you know it's a representative sample. They said they still supported Trump because he's going to bring back all the jobs that were lost when the ball bearing plant closed. Obviously nothing will make Trump's base turn against him therefore we should just concede every election until 2024 at least.
 
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