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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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Blader

Member
This is disappointing, Bernie's whole job is to expand what's possible, falling back to compromise positions like the public option is ceding unnecessary ground when he should be working to build more electoral support for single payer.

That is not Bernie's job.

And frankly, I think the 'start out from the unrealistic then move in closer to the compromise' style of negotiations is a really absurd way to legislate (or do anything really; when I negotiate a pay raise, I don't start out asking for a 50k bump) and a waste of everyone's time.
 
He probably decided that he has a chance to win the presidency and decided to start selling out in advance.

No but seriously, if everybody is going to view Bernie's bill as a template for the left, that puts a lot of pressure on him to make the bill realistic. That's what happens when you take the outsiders and tell them they're party leaders! Should have let him live in peace in the Vermont wilderness.
Going to be disappointing when Gillibrand outflanks him from the left on healthcare in 2020
 
@JohnJHarwood
new Gallup Poll, approve-disapprove of Trump by party: Rs 71%-24%; Ind 23%-60%; Ds 6%-92%
ouch

slowly but surely...

@JohnJHarwood
new Gallup Poll, approve-disapprove of Trump by age: 18-29, 25%-68%; 30-49, 33%-62%; 50-64, 36%-59%; 65+, 41%-53%

Millennials: you're doing amazing sweetie
 

Random Human

They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
If Bannon truly is on the way out, now would be an amazing time for him to go full chaos mode and quit, then say today's "statement" proves Trump isn't a true believer, thus turning all the alt-right morons against Trump.
 

kirblar

Member
That is not Bernie's job.

And frankly, I think the 'start out from the unrealistic then move in closer to the compromise' style of negotiations is a really absurd way to legislate (or do anything really; when I negotiate a pay raise, I don't start out asking for a 50k bump) and a waste of everyone's time.
Because it is. Politics doesn't work like that, and you're never going to be able to convince other Democrats who don't believe in moving to single payer directly from where we currently are because they actually understand that effectively destroying a bunch of insurance companies via government fiat would be very, very bad for our economy and our country!

The same way the GOP couldn't get Murkowski/Collins/McCain on board.
Going to be disappointing when Gillibrand outflanks him from the left on healthcare in 2020
Gillibrand was conflating the public option and "Medicare for All" back in '09 lol (she was not the only one during '09, this is why I was very confused on what "Medicare for All" meant in 2016/17!)
 

Wilsongt

Member
I am still stunned.

We literally fought a war where millions of Americans died to defeat the Nazis so that white shitheels have the ability to be Nazis in public and are not even condemned by the fucking President of the United States.
 
"You're the actual Nazi for calling Trump supports Nazi Sympathizers!"

That's a new one, from my city's subreddit. I'm from a deep blue city with like a 60% minority population.

Oh well! Guess I'm the real Nazi!
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Jim Acosta‏Verified account @Acosta

The president said we just had a press conference. We did not. That's fake news.

Acosta's response to Trump calling him fake news to his face.

23% approval with independents is brutal at this point. If this keeps up there's no way he could win in 2020 without some major, major voter suppression.
 
I am still stunned.

We literally fought a war where millions of Americans died to defeat the Nazis so that white shitheels have the ability to be Nazis in public and are not even condemned by the fucking President of the United States.

Wikipedia says 419,400 died in WW2, but your point still stands.
 
@JohnJHarwood
Gallup approve-disapprove Trump: white college grads 34%-63%; white non-grads 48%-46%; non-white grads 15%-78%; non-white non-grads 15%-80%

He's under 50% with the only demographic that approves of him. lol
 
I'm curious, have the economic situations in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, etc. improved since the election?

Who knows. Maybe they "feel" like it has.
Wait until Trump shuts down the government.

Trump's team is already bracing for September being a bad month. Was August a good month?

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/13/trump-aides-predicting-brutal-september-241594

Aides hope to have a better blueprint for how the president wants to proceed on a series of thorny issues — the nation’s debt ceiling, the 2018 federal budget, tax reform, infrastructure spending and perhaps another stab at repealing Obamacare — after a series of meetings in New York this week.

Their goal is to partially temper Trump’s expectations, hammer out some compromises and get a competing band of aides on the same page. The month has taken on outsize importance among some top aides and outside advisers, who view it as key to getting the presidency on a better track.

“The stakes are very high in September,” said Jenny Beth Martin, who leads the Tea Party Patriots, a conservative grass-roots group. “There is a lot to do in a very short period of time.”

Trump, who is impatient, wants it all done immediately, said people close to the president — and he has ratcheted up pressure on aides in recent weeks, even though he doesn't always engage with the substance of issues.

What makes the month harder is that many of the fights are in Congress, where the president and his team have little control.

"The president has made clear his commitment to getting health care, tax reform and infrastructure passed in Congress. There shouldn't have to be a choice," said Kelly Love, a White House spokeswoman.
 

kirblar

Member
It won't get us single payer in the near future because moving to single payer is not supported by enough of the caucus, and that basic fact will not change in any significant fashion in the near future.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
It won't get us single payer in the near future because moving to single payer is not supported by enough of the caucus, and that basic fact will not change in any significant fashion in the near future.

Medicare being on the Insurance Marketplace does three important things.

1.) Allows for gradual growth, preventing mass disruption of the existing infrastructure.
2.) Increases exposure to more people to medicare, and convinces people that Medicare providing a basic level of insurance is a workable solution. (see Medicare supplemental programs).
3.) Provides an always there option on every insurance marketplace. Putting pressure on insurance companies to compete, take the risk, or be replaced.

I really wish the Dems would have been able to make it part of the ACA, but alas we had shitbags like Liberman.
 

kirblar

Member
Medicare being on the Insurance Marketplace does two important things.

1.) Allows for gradual growth, preventing mass disruption of the existing infrastructure.
2.) Increases exposure to more people to medicare, and convinces people that Medicare providing a basic level of insurance is a workable solution. (see Medicare supplemental programs).

I really wish the Dems would have been able to make it part of the ACA, but alas we had shitbags like Liberman.
Yup. Change here has to be gradual and work within our existing framework. Many EU countries have multi-payer systems that work fine and are way closer to our current one. But since they don't speak english (i.e., aren't Canada or the UK) no one pays attention to them.

A giant insurance company getting destroyed didn't go well for us in '08. Wouldn't go well for us (as a country or politically) deliberately recreating it multiple times.

BTW, in a lot of the Obamacare pullout markets, those insurers have been replaced by others.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Hot take: Democrats should go all-in on Doug Jones (Dem candidate for the Alabama Senate special election).

When the president's approval is creeping on 30 you can probably compete just about anywhere. And it's not like the DSCC will be doing much else this November.

is this how twin peaks ends
 
Wait until Trump shuts down the government.

Trump's team is already bracing for September being a bad month. Was August a good month?]

At this point, I can't wait for Congress to go back in session. As this month is showing, Trump being """at work""" is infinitely preferable to him being on holiday. I'll take him failing to work with Congress and signing meaningless executive orders over him condoning domestic Neo-Nazi terrorism and trying to start WW3 any time.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Going to be disappointing when Gillibrand outflanks him from the left on healthcare in 2020

No, that means he's effectively normalized hardcore social democratic proposals and helped shift Democratic discourse to the left.

If Bernie finds himself to no longer be the most left-wing mainstream politician, he's done his job!
 
No, that means he's effectively normalized hardcore social democratic proposals and helped shift Democratic discourse to the left.

If Bernie finds himself to no longer be the most left-wing mainstream politician, he's accomplished his mission.
I'd normally agree but not if that happens because Bernie shifted right.
 
Man, I feel kind of bad for these people.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnas...upremacist-son?utm_term=.htwvZ31ob#.knkJgEAdG

A man who said he is the father of a white supremacist who attended the deadly rally in Charlottesville disavowed his son's "vile, hateful and racist rhetoric and actions" on Monday.

"My name is Pearce Tefft, and I am writing to all, with regards to my youngest son, Peter Tefft, an avowed white nationalist who has been featured in a number of local news stories over the last several months," Pearce Tefft wrote in a letter published on a North Dakota news site, Inforum.

Angie Wieck, Inforum's community editor, confirmed to BuzzFeed News that the letter was sent to them by Peter Tefft's father, Pearce Tefft.

"On Friday night, my son traveled to Charlottesville, Va., and was interviewed by a national news outlet while marching with reported white nationalists, who allegedly went on to kill a person," Pearce Tefft wrote. (James Fields was charged with the car attack, which happened after police tried to disperse the march.)

"I, along with all of his siblings and his entire family, wish to loudly repudiate my son's vile, hateful and racist rhetoric and actions," he said.

Pearce Tefft, who is from Fargo, North Dakota, wrote that Peter was no longer welcome at their family gatherings.

"I pray my prodigal son will renounce his hateful beliefs and return home. Then and only then will I lay out the feast," he said in the letter.

Peter Tefft, who identifies himself as a "pro-white activist" on Twitter, posted a photograph of himself standing at the Robert E. Lee statue which white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and alt-righters rallied to protect from possible removal in Charlottesville.

In a lengthy Facebook post about the violence sparked by the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Peter Tefft defended James Alex Fields Jr., the 20-year-old man accused of killing a woman after plowing his car into a group of people gathered to protest the white supremacist rally.

"Fatal crashes happen all the time, and it is clear that the young man's car was being attacked on all sides by a roving mob of Antifa when he slammed the gas pedal and accelerated," Peter Tefft wrote in the Facebook post on Sunday.

"He will be acquitted because his life was clearly in danger by Antifa," he wrote.

Video of the incident does not suggest the car was under attack when it accelerated into the crowd, then backed out and fled.

Peter Tefft also blamed law enforcement and city officials for the violence in Charlottesville, but said that the Unite the Right rally was a success because it "legitimized our struggle."

"This is the beginning of the White Civil Rights movement," he wrote.

In his letter, Pearce Tefft said the family did not know where his son learned his white nationalist beliefs.

"I have taught all of my children that all men and women are created equal. That we must love each other all the same. Evidently Peter has chosen to unlearn these lessons, much to my and his family's heartbreak and distress," Pearce Tefft wrote.

"We have been silent up until now, but now we see that this was a mistake. It was the silence of good people that allowed the Nazis to flourish the first time around, and it is the silence of good people that is allowing them to flourish now," he wrote.

His father said that none of his family members accepted his son's "twisted worldview."

"He once joked, 'The thing about us fascists is, it's not that we don't believe in freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want. We'll just throw you in an oven,'" Pearce Tefft wrote. "Peter, you will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too. Please son, renounce the hate, accept and love all."

Another family member also publicly repudiated Peter Tefft's "vile nazi ideology" in a Facebook post on Sunday. Jacob Scott, who appears to be Peter Tefft's nephew, wrote that Peter Tefft was not welcome in their homes or family gatherings and that until he renounced his beliefs, "we will have nothing to do with him or any of his putrid nazi friends."

sub-buzz-28164-1502729866-7.png


Scott also demanded Peter Tefft to change his name immediately, claiming that several people were harassing his siblings and other relatives because of their presumed association.

In a statement to Inforum, Scott said that Peter's sister had been threatened at her workplace under the assumption that she endorsed Nazism. He said that some of their relatives in Hawaii, including a 13-year-old cousin, had apparently received threatening messages online.

"We are all bleeding-heart liberals who believe in the fundamental equality of all human beings," Scott told Inforum. "Peter is a maniac, who has turned away from all of us and gone down some insane internet rabbit-hole, and turned into a crazy nazi. He scares us all, we don't feel safe around him, and we don't know how he came to be this way."

In his Facebook post, Scott addressed Peter Tefft, saying, "Every one of us will resist you to our last breath, if you continue to fight to bring about the fascist America you so crave to see."

In a reply to a Twitter user, Peter Tefft appeared to respond to a question about his family's denouncement, saying "U bought it then? And leave my family alone or are they still guilty by association?"

BuzzFeed News has reached out to Pearce Tefft, Peter Tefft, and Jacob Scott.

The letter:

http://www.inforum.com/opinion/lett...-denounces-teffts-racist-rhetoric-and-actions

My name is Pearce Tefft, and I am writing to all, with regards to my youngest son, Peter Tefft, an avowed white nationalist who has been featured in a number of local news stories over the last several months.

On Friday night, my son traveled to Charlottesville, Va., and was interviewed by a national news outlet while marching with reported white nationalists, who allegedly went on to kill a person.

I, along with all of his siblings and his entire family, wish to loudly repudiate my son's vile, hateful and racist rhetoric and actions. We do not know specifically where he learned these beliefs. He did not learn them at home.

I have shared my home and hearth with friends and acquaintances of every race, gender and creed. I have taught all of my children that all men and women are created equal. That we must love each other all the same.

Evidently Peter has chosen to unlearn these lessons, much to my and his family's heartbreak and distress. We have been silent up until now, but now we see that this was a mistake. It was the silence of good people that allowed the Nazis to flourish the first time around, and it is the silence of good people that is allowing them to flourish now.

Peter Tefft, my son, is not welcome at our family gatherings any longer. I pray my prodigal son will renounce his hateful beliefs and return home. Then and only then will I lay out the feast.

His hateful opinions are bringing hateful rhetoric to his siblings, cousins, nieces and nephews as well as his parents. Why must we be guilty by association? Again, none of his beliefs were learned at home. We do not, never have, and never will, accept his twisted worldview.

He once joked, ”The thing about us fascists is, it's not that we don't believe in freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want. We'll just throw you in an oven."

Peter, you will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too. Please son, renounce the hate, accept and love all.
 
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