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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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W

watershed

Banned
Lord_Byron28 said:
Not completely on topic. However, today my little brother posted a 'KKK, ISIS and Antifa are all the same' meme. I normally avoid dealing with those type of posts but since it was my brother, I did. I explained how Antifa is nothing like KKK and ISIS. That the meme was all propaganda that leads to extreme right radicalization. Also that I'm far more concerned about the Alt-right people that overthrew and occupied a government facility in Oregon for over a month. I backed up everything I said with sources. I started getting dogpiled by his friends being called a Marxist, socialist and an Antifa member. I responded saying 'I'd be happy to have an intelligent discussion citing credible news sources. Feel free to help me understand your perspective.' Of course they all ran away and didn't respond.
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That sucks. Why does your brother think that way? I don't know what I would do if I had a family member spouting this crap. I've already broken friendships over this shit.
 
S

SatelliteOfLove

Member
whyamihere said:
noted idiot cassandra fairbanks
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Lil' Miss Horseshoe Theory havin' a bad day! Woohoohoohoo!

Valhelm said:
Every one of these guys grew up in an environment that allowed them to become white supremacist terrorists. The parents are culpable.
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If anything, this shit should be a teachable moment for parents, teachers, authority figures that red flags are RED FLAGS like suicide and other slow boil tragedies, but you know how it'll go. Our brains just ain't wired to look for that often enough.

Kusagari said:
I disagree. He's not some minor figure any longer. Let the whole of America see him and the kind of people supporting Trump.
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And what's more, he's giving a full line of thinking into Dolt 45's mewling statement. Problem is, there may not be people contextualizing just what that line of thinking is, and why it is dangerous to let him wiggle free in his own mind.
 
F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
Wilsongt said:
I am still stunned.

We literally fought a war where millions of Americans died to defeat the Nazis so that white shitheels have the ability to be Nazis in public and are not even condemned by the fucking President of the United States.
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Okay, I get that you didn't mean anything bad here, but you really need to read up on where the US actually stood on "the Jewish problem" (that's a quote, not an opinion) and other 'undesirables' in the 1930's and how limited its actual European involvement has been (in the actual war, the post-war period is where its real influence is). The blunt of both victims and fight against the European Nazis was firmly taken by Eastern Europe and Russia, though the data being thrown together into the Soviet Union in its post-45 borders makes that hard to appreciate.

The 'we did it' myth has a very specific construct created in movies and subsequent media, but it is not in any way or form based on reality. For instance, the primary liberator where I live (that little area of 'a bridge too far' ) is Canada, not the US, even if they coordinated together. The other major force being the Polish armor brigade, who for obvious reasons had the most reason to be there ( Hitler's 'Lebensraum' in reality meant the extermination of the Polish people, starting with the ethnic Jewish people that lived there... and you know how that ended).

The reason I'm bringing it up is to point out that the racist attitudes you observe now in the US do not exist in a vacuum and are part of a larger pattern that is neither new nor entirely unexpected for US history.
What is new here, is how blatant it is in showing itself, outside of say, the days of the Confederacy or the publications of the 1930's, but without a clearly present motive for it. Hopefully Trump's eventual removal with also kill whatever this is, but it won't be the end of it for good in the US unless other measures are taken on policy and education.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
BoogieWoogie said:
Has ANTIFA even done any actual physical damage? The worst they've done is punch Nazis?
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Torched a bunch of bystanders' property at the Inauguration riot and at Berkeley.

They're not entirely innocent, but they hold themselves to higher standards than the Nazis. There's a certain language to illegal street protests that they generally hold themselves to, and they're at least honest about their intentions and prepared to face the consequences of their actions, unlike the Nazis who hide behind the cloak of innocent intent and bitch and moan whenever they face any legal trouble.
 
I

ivajz

Member
Trump campaign emails show aide’s repeated efforts to set up Russia meetings
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.e3554067b9a8

Three days after Donald Trump named his campaign foreign policy team in March 2016, the youngest of the new advisers sent an email to seven campaign officials with the subject line: “Meeting with Russian Leadership - Including Putin.”

The adviser, George Papadopoulos, offered to set up “a meeting between us and the Russian leadership to discuss US-Russia ties under President Trump,” telling them his Russian contacts welcomed the opportunity, according to internal campaign emails read to The Washington Post.

The proposal sent a ripple of concern through campaign headquarters in Trump Tower. Campaign co-chairman Sam Clovis wrote that he thought NATO allies should be consulted before any plans were made. Another Trump adviser, retired Navy Rear Adm. Charles Kubic, cited legal concerns, including a possible violation of U.S. sanctions against Russia and of the Logan Act, which prohibits U.S. citizens from unauthorized negotiation with foreign governments.
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J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
The adviser, George Papadopoulos
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webster-alex-karras1.jpg
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
The adviser, George Papadopoulos, offered to set up ”a meeting between us and the Russian leadership to discuss US-Russia ties under President Trump," telling them his Russian contacts welcomed the opportunity, according to internal campaign emails read to The Washington Post.
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Now there's a name I haven't heard in a very long time. EDIT: Beaten while image searching.

OAD2rvg.jpg
 
R

RumbleHumble

Banned
What even is Antifa? People who simply protest White Supremacists? Isn't there little-to-no organization to it?

Isn't anyone who isn't a garbage person at least a little Antifa?
 
O

Ogodei

Member
RumbleHumble said:
What even is Antifa? People who simply protest White Supremacists? Isn't there little-to-no organization to it?

Isn't anyone who isn't a garbage person at least a little Antifa?
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I thought it was a specific movement tied to the Black Bloc of anarchists, which then makes ad-hoc alliances with the regular folks who turn out whenever the Nazis do.
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
Fenderputty said:
I hate these replies. We're here to converse. The topic and question might require some more nuance than a shitty google search is going to provide anyway.
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If that is what you think, sure. The reason why I did that is to show that you can always google something and figure it out.
smokeymicpot said:
I know. But what are the chances they actually do something?
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Who knows at this point. I more worried about our government than North Korea.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/...mp-white-house.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

WASHINGTON — Rupert Murdoch has repeatedly urged President Trump to fire him. Anthony Scaramucci, the president’s former communications director, thrashed him on television as a white nationalist. Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, the national security adviser, refused to even say he could work with him.

For months, Mr. Trump has considered ousting Stephen K. Bannon, the White House chief strategist and relentless nationalist who ran the Breitbart website and called it a “platform for the alt-right.” Mr. Trump has now relegated Mr. Bannon to a kind of internal exile, and has not met face-to-face for more than a week with a man who was once a fixture in the Oval Office, according to aides and friends of the president.

So far, Mr. Trump has not been able to follow through — a product of his dislike of confrontation, the bonds of foxhole friendship forged during the 2016 presidential campaign and concerns about what mischief Mr. Bannon might do once he leaves the protective custody of the West Wing.

Not least, Mr. Bannon still embodies the defiant populism at the core of the president’s agenda. Despite his marginalization, Mr. Bannon consulted the president repeatedly over the weekend as Mr. Trump struggled to respond to the neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Va. In general, Mr. Bannon has cautioned the president not to criticize far-right activists too severely for fear of antagonizing a small but energetic part of his base.

But what once endeared him to the president has now become a major liability. After the president waited two days to blame white supremacists for the violence in Charlottesville, there is new pressure from Mr. Trump’s critics to dismiss Mr. Bannon.
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Mr. Bannon, who adamantly rejects claims that he is a racist or a sympathizer of white supremacists, is in trouble with John F. Kelly, a retired Marine general and the new White House chief of staff. Mr. Kelly has told Mr. Trump’s top staff that he will not tolerate Mr. Bannon’s shadowland machinations, according to a dozen current and former Trump aides and associates with knowledge of the situation.

Mr. Bannon’s alleged crimes: Leaking nasty stories about General McMaster and other colleagues he deems insufficiently populist, feuding bitterly with Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and creating his own cadre within the West Wing that operates outside the chain of command.

One of his main sins in the eyes of the president is appearing to revel in the perception that he is the mastermind behind the rise of a pliable Mr. Trump. The president was deeply annoyed at a Time magazine cover article that described Mr. Bannon as the real power and brains behind the Trump throne. Mr. Trump was equally put off by a recent book, “Devil’s Bargain,” by the Atlantic magazine writer Joshua Green, which lavished credit for Mr. Trump’s election on Mr. Bannon.
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Top administration officials like to joke that working for Mr. Trump is like toiling in the court of Henry VIII. Mick Mulvaney, the president’s budget director, recently handed out copies of the play “A Man for all Seasons,” about the last years of Sir Thomas More, Henry’s religiously zealous chancellor, who was executed for failing to fulfill his monarch’s directive to get him a divorce from Anne Boleyn. Mr. Bannon read it, according to a person familiar with the situation, and was amused when an associate compared him to More.

From the start, Mr. Bannon, 63, has told people in his orbit that he never expected to last in his current position longer than eight months to a year, and hoped to ram through as much of his agenda as he could while he stood in the president’s favor. More recently he has told friends that he is working in the White House one day at a time, and constantly asks himself whether he could better pursue his to-do list — including cracking down on legal and illegal immigration — on the outside.

But the choice might not be his. At a recent dinner at the White House with Mr. Kushner and Mr. Kelly, before Mr. Trump decamped for a working vacation at his private golf club in Bedminster, N.J., the president listened while one of the guests, Mr. Murdoch, a founder of Fox News, said Mr. Bannon had to go.

Mr. Trump offered little pushback, according to a person familiar with the conversation, and vented his frustrations about Mr. Bannon. Mr. Murdoch is close to Mr. Kushner, who has been in open warfare with Mr. Bannon since the spring.

But Mr. Trump has expressed similar sentiments in the past, then backed off. Just a week earlier, as Mr. Trump ruminated on whether to dismiss his chief of staff at the time, Reince Priebus, he was pushed by Mr. Kushner and others to dismiss Mr. Bannon as well. Mr. Trump signaled to allies that he was pretty much there.
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But Mr. Trump still publicly flayed Mr. Bannon, insulting him as a guy “who works for me.” It was a far cry from the lofty status Mr. Bannon enjoyed when he joined Mr. Trump’s faltering campaign in August 2016, when as a rich former investment banker he enjoyed the status of a near-peer and hell-raiser who shared his candidate’s daredevil approach to politics.

Mr. Bannon has not fared well in West Wing politics. His bonds with the president seem to be fraying daily, and Mr. Bannon has told friends his status as “staff” — compared with Mr. Kushner’s familial relationship with the president — will ultimately dictate his departure. But he has been adamant in maintaining that his loyalty to Mr. Trump will survive, and has suggested that he might direct his energies at creating a movement to challenge mainstream Republicans too timid to pursue the president’s agenda, like Speaker Paul D. Ryan.

Mr. Bannon’s cause is being damaged, people close to the president say, by a war he is waging against General McMaster. It has taken on a life of its own, with several alt-right websites faithful to Mr. Bannon tearing into the national security adviser.
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Still, Mr. Bannon is a survivor. He has been left for dead before. Mr. Trump is mercurial, and can easily change his mind.

This spring, as Mr. Kushner pressured Mr. Trump to fire Mr. Bannon, the president shot back at his son-in-law. He was not going to get rid of him, he said, just because Mr. Kushner wanted him to go.
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S

smokeandmirrors

Banned
RumbleHumble said:
What even is Antifa? People who simply protest White Supremacists? Isn't there little-to-no organization to it?

Isn't anyone who isn't a garbage person at least a little Antifa?
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A loose collection of communists, socialists, soc dems, and anyone dedicated to fighting fascism by any means necessary.

That would make sense but people tend to value property over life so moderates cry every time a window is broken by them hence the "antifa are as bad as Nazis!!!" may may.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
RastaMentality said:
Probably since many people haven't seen the whole neo nazi thing as a pressing, immediate issue until this. unlike terrorism.
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White nationalism, supremacy, Neo-Nazism, etc was for a long time hidden and in the fringes of the internet. No one took them seriously because they really weren't a large scale threat until now. I don't suspect parents to monitor their children's activities on the net as I suspect that is where the child is radicalized. It is not that much different from young Muslims getting radicalized so I can't really fault the parents too much unless they were racists themselves.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
RumbleHumble said:
What even is Antifa? People who simply protest White Supremacists? Isn't there little-to-no organization to it?

Isn't anyone who isn't a garbage person at least a little Antifa?
Click to expand...

Antifa is a movement primarily of socialists, communists, and anarchists utilizing black bloc tactics. They don't respect the typical rules of protest (be civil and stay behind the cordon, nonviolence, give the guys their chance to speak, etc.) because they figure the police are on the Nazis side anyway (which we've just seen). They believe in direct action against fascists, of the physical sort. There is no central organization, just interacting local hubs.

The term is getting watered down a bit in America because this is many people's first exposure to it and they're slapping Antifa stickers on their phones like a fashion statement. Also because the fascists like to call anyone against them Antifa. But if you call yourself Antifa it's because you subscribe to their tactics and are willing to get violent.
 
L

Lord_Byron28

Member
watershed said:
That sucks. Why does your brother think that way? I don't know what I would do if I had a family member spouting this crap. I've already broken friendships over this shit.
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I'm not entirely sure. Although I did have a discussion with one of his friends. He was full of both sides are equally as bad and he hates liberals and conservatives. Said democrats and republicans were less extreme. Also that all hate is bad. Condoned BLM/Black Panthers and KKK as the same. As well as Antifa and NeoNazis being the same. Also informed me that CNN was fake news. Told him to stop speaking in terms of absolutes and that world was not black and white. That carelessly grouping them all together without understanding the root cause and source of the problems will never resolve these issues. Also pointed out that he said in the same paragraph that all hate was bad while saying he hated both sides in between typing a different obscenity every other word. Then said the conversation had ran it's course and thanked him for the conversation.

smokeandmirrors said:
A loose collection of communists, socialists, soc dems, and anyone dedicated to fighting fascism by any means necessary.

That would make sense but people tend to value property over life so moderates cry every time a window is broken by them hence the "antifa are as bad as Nazis!!!" may may.
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Yeah I didn't realize how whackadoo even moderates have gotten.
 
I

Ithil

Member
If you wanted easy proof he meant none of what he said and has no capacity to have that empathy, look at that tweet, he expected praise for denouncing Nazis (late).

He is incapable of thinking of anyone but himself. He expected praise and now he's insulting people again for not giving it.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
jack_package_200 said:
Perhaps Eric isn't the dumb one.
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From what I understand, it's not the real Assange (notice the double 'nn').

And I don't know of the other Assange with the blue diamond in it's name (not an actual verified account check) is the real one either.

I ignore both, just for good measure.
 
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