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[Aaron Strife]

I guess it depends on what you mean by giving them a platform. Equal access to the commons seems like a requirement of tolerance. But you can think that anarchists to neo-Nazis must be allowed to march while also being fine with private enterprise shuttering their storefronts and removing their websites, and with citizens pressuring or lobbying those private institutions to do so, and with arguing that the media should not hold to some precept of false balance and instead report the ugly truth of these groups.

I'd say that most of the fallout from Charlottesville has shown that free speech has worked. I disagree with the absolutist stance on the Confederate monument question, but it's something that each locality should be able to decide, and plenty of cities and states are saying they want nothing to do with it and acted swiftly to bring them down. Pressure on the internet has for once led to demonstrable results, with social media platforms and CDNs cutting ties with neo-Nazis and white supremacists. Much work remains to be done, especially with the obstacles in the federal government, but it seems to actually be tipping in the right direction for the first time in months.

Spencer and his company had their say, and Americans have responded in kind. They have basically shown up as Gamergate Part 2: a reactionary movement that has managed to spur action in the exact opposite direction from their intent. Way more Confederate memorials would have remained up if they hadn't done such a good job of showing that they are happy to be hateful people animated by the past.

Where I find myself conflicted is on the question of the permit denials. On one hand, if these rallies are resulting in violence it seems like that reaches the natural limit of the aforementioned tolerance, and so it makes sense to shut them down as a precaution (the general welfare at that point taking precedence over their speech rights, as one's rights naturally end where others' begin.) On the other hand, the promise of violence can basically be used as a cudgel against any demonstration, including far more valid and progressive ones.

When I talk about platforms I mean the media inviting Richard Spencer and Milo and other shitheads to talk. Or universities hosting Ann Coulter. That shit's not cool.

 

[wutwutwut]

I would just keep somewhere in the back of your mind that the US Constitution was written centuries before modern psychology.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Virtually every political strategist on both sides is telling Dems to keep the issue on Nazis and white supremacists instead of statues but apparently George Washington must go and that's just too important.

Democrats always fuck everything up. Why are they so silent on Trump? Why aren't they on TV shouting for Trump to be impeached. It's ridiculous.

 

[aspiegamer]

If nothing else, this week has proven that Trump can completely and utterly fail and fuck up continuously even when the Russia matter isn't in any way involved. He's that that horrible at this. And like 100% of all other Trump situations, this week has been 100% self-inflicted. Hell, he's still technically on vacation this week and there's zilch happening in Washington to go wrong, yet he still managed to fail this badly.

 

[Mutanthands]

So many dog whistles coming out of this asshole's mouth on CNN.

So. Many.

 

[skullmuffins]

Menendez found guilty. Resigns. Christie appoints R replacement. McConnell brings up HealthCare vote again. Pass it with Pence tiebreaker.

We are doomed.

Spoiler

99.9% chances of never happening but you never know.

Christie appoints himself Senator.

 

[Kusagari]

Ewww

CNN has Shapiro on?

 

[Drakeon]

Menendez found guilty. Resigns. Christie appoints R replacement. McConnell brings up HealthCare vote again. Pass it with Pence tiebreaker.

We are doomed.

Spoiler

99.9% chances of never happening but you never know.

This just reminded me that there are 2 Governor's elections this year. Looks like the democrats might win back NJ (because thanks to Christie and Trump, Republicans are toxic, I'm assuming). Hopefully we hold on to VA.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Virtually every political strategist on both sides is telling Dems to keep the issue on Nazis and white supremacists instead of statues but apparently George Washington must go and that's just too important.

Are you just talking about some posters in this thread on neogaf.com or are there more people playing into Trump's game?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Are you just talking about some posters in this thread on neogaf.com or are there more people playing into Trump's game?

There was someone on CNN who was playing so deep into Trump's game it made you wonder if she was on his payroll.

 

[skullmuffins]

Are you just talking about some posters in this thread on neogaf.com or are there more people playing into Trump's game?

If you mean George Washington, Fox News found someone to feed the narrative http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/1...ame-taken-off-park-in-black-neighborhood.html

 

[BoboBrazil]

Where are the Democratic senators on TV? It's like they don't exist. They should be denouncing this and Calling for impeachment from the rooftops.

 

[Pixieking]

Where are the Democratic senators on TV? It's like they don't exist. They should be denouncing this and Calling for impeachment from the rooftops.

With how partisan politics has become in the past 6/8 years, almost entirely from the Republican side, I wonder if that would help. Or if the hardcore Republicans would just double-down because libruls are on TV whining.

I mean, I'd guess it would help, but I also thought Hillary was going to win, so *shrugs*

 

[Ecotic]

Democrats always fuck everything up. Why are they so silent on Trump? Why aren't they on TV shouting for Trump to be impeached. It's ridiculous.

Yeah I'm getting very sick of the lack of this. It feels like the whole of America is meekly shuffling their feet and saying "Well you know... he won an election."

We're in a five alarm fire situation and no one is acting like it.

 

[Basileus777]

Menendez found guilty. Resigns. Christie appoints R replacement. McConnell brings up HealthCare vote again. Pass it with Pence tiebreaker.

We are doomed.

Spoiler

99.9% chances of never happening but you never know.

The timetable for Menendez losing his Senate seat and getting replaced before Christie is out of office isn't really practical. Even in a worst case scenario the clock could be run out until Murphy is Governor.

This just reminded me that there are 2 Governor's elections this year. Looks like the democrats might win back NJ (because thanks to Christie and Trump, Republicans are toxic, I'm assuming). Hopefully we hold on to VA.

The NJ Governor race isn't even being seriously contested, the Republican candidate can't even raise money.

 

[skullmuffins]

Where are the Democratic senators on TV? It's like they don't exist. They should be denouncing this and Calling for impeachment from the rooftops.

IDK. Maybe it's a strategy, let the media cover all the Republicans shitting on him. 11th dimensional chess (lol). Trump's approval is in the toilet with Independents and down the drain with Democrats.... the only people still hanging are Republicans and Republican-leaning Ind. Honestly would Democrats denouncing him even move the needle? Maybe it would even harden his support, since the only thing half the right wing stands for these days is pissing off libs.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

Repeatedly calling for impeachment without the ability to actually proceed along that route isn't a good look.

Just save it for when it's actually possible.

 

[JohnTinker]

Re: staying on message tying Trump to Neo Nazis versus shouting to bring down George Washington, there are some really good points made here.

I'm a day one NeverTrump guy on the right, poured money into trying to stop him and have been ostracized by friends because of it and because of their head over heels love for Trump. I want to see this guy gone yesterday. Trump has handed you a stand up triple. Please don't take your eye off the base and get stuck with a double

 

[kirblar]

It helps if people don't take the bait from a guy who's blatantly trolling because he finds it funny.

 

[Crocodile]

Are any significant number of Dems falling for the statue bait or is it like one idiot Fox News found and maybe Pelosi/Booker (and I'm not even sure what they're saying is wrong because I haven't closely looked at it).

 

[kirblar]

Re: staying on message tying Trump to Neo Nazis versus shouting to bring down George Washington, there are some really good points made here.

I'm a day one NeverTrump guy on the right, poured money into trying to stop him and have been ostracized by friends because of it and because of their head over heels love for Trump. I want to see this guy gone yesterday. Trump has handed you a stand up triple. Please don't take your eye off the base and get stuck with a double

The statues thing is a short term play. Don't worry. It's obviously not something you run on, it's two things

a) the right thing to do
b) BAIT for those aforementioned loathed groups in his twitter thread

It's just not going to be a long term thing because there aren't enough politicians in states with enough power to do it. And if you do want to do it, you need to do it now before the fall/winter.

 

[Sianos]

Virtually every political strategist on both sides is telling Dems to keep the issue on Nazis and white supremacists instead of statues but apparently George Washington must go and that's just too important.

Wait, is this something Dems are seriously pushing? And it's not just an intellectual exercise among groups like PoliGAF?

 

[JohnTinker]

The statues thing is a short term play. Don't worry. It's obviously not something you run on, it's two things

a) the right thing to do
b) BAIT for those aforementioned loathed groups in his twitter thread

It's just not going to be a long term thing because there aren't enough politicians in states with enough power to do it. And if you do want to do it, you need to do it now before the fall/winter.

I have to tell you though, the biggest turning point for Trump during the GOP primary was the Chicago rally and ensuing near-riot. The way those images played to a still skeptical GOP base, that was *the* moment that a TON of the GOP base 'came home' to him before the convention. I was the loud voice screaming at the top of my lungs to the rest of my friends and family that the dude is a racist/bigot/manchild/can't govern/loose canon/zero self-control/impulsive/70 years old and not changing/etc but it all fell on deaf ears when that Chicago rally happened last summer. It was totally reactionary, and a LOT of skeptical people immediately rallied to him.

The way some of these images are playing right now with statues being toppled like in NC, its having the same effect. I've seen people express a ton of doubt and disappointment with voting for Trump, but those same folks are getting fired up by seeing those statues pulled down by people and a small fringe saying that Washington & other founders need to come down. When a city and crane professionally removes it? There's a negative reaction. But absolutely no reaction quite like watching people pull it down like its a statue of Saddam Hussein. I don't personally care about seeing them come down, to me they're statues dedicated to a failed state that doesn't exist anymore, but I'm in the minority on that.

You guys have been given a goldmine of material to use against Trump with the Neo Nazi stuff, and I'm pleading with you to not take your eye off of it.

 

[kirblar]

Wait, is this something Dems are seriously pushing? And it's not just an intellectual exercise among groups like PoliGAF?

No, it's a conservative talking point and the intellectual playground of Brits living in a country so far gone to the pits of idiocracy that they can only amuse themselves thinking of ways to make it worse for everyone else.

 

[Teggy]

.

 

[pigeon]

Wait, is this something Dems are seriously pushing? And it's not just an intellectual exercise among groups like PoliGAF?

No. Bam bam is just dumb.

 

[watershed]

Wait, is this something Dems are seriously pushing? And it's not just an intellectual exercise among groups like PoliGAF?

No one is trying to get rid of George Washington statues but Pelosi and Booker are on board to get rid of Confederate statues in the capitol. I do think that's not the right move right now. I would focus on Trump and white supremacists instead of statues even though the statues should be gotten rid of.

 

[UberTag]

There was someone on CNN who was playing so deep into Trump's game it made you wonder if she was on his payroll.

That's just CNN's payroll at work. They're as married to Trump as the Republicans.
They love what he does for their ratings.

You should also probably cut back on watching them so much.

 

[pigeon]

I have to tell you though, the biggest turning point for Trump during the GOP primary was the Chicago rally and ensuing near-riot. The way those images played to a still skeptical GOP base, that was *the* moment that a TON of the GOP base 'came home' to him before the convention. I was the loud voice screaming at the top of my lungs to the rest of my friends and family that the dude is a racist/bigot/manchild/can't govern/loose canon/zero self-control/impulsive/70 years old and not changing/etc but it all fell on deaf ears when that Chicago rally happened last summer. It was totally reactionary, and a LOT of skeptical people immediately rallied to him.

The way some of these images are playing right now with statues being toppled like in NC, its having the same effect. I've seen people express a ton of doubt and disappointment with voting for Trump, but those same folks are getting fired up by seeing those statues pulled down by people and a small fringe saying that Washington & other founders need to come down. When a city and crane professionally removes it? There's a negative reaction. But absolutely no reaction quite like watching people pull it down like its a statue of Saddam Hussein. I don't personally care about seeing them come down, to me they're statues dedicated to a failed state that doesn't exist anymore, but I'm in the minority on that.

You guys have been given a goldmine of material to use against Trump with the Neo Nazi stuff, and I'm pleading with you to not take your eye off of it.

I mean, I think your friends and family might just be Nazis.

 

[kirblar]

I mean, I think your friends and family might just be Nazis.

Yeah, not sure if those are the words I'd use, but I don't think those are potential swing voters. They're just jerks.

 

[Sianos]

No one is trying to get rid of George Washington statues but Pelosi and Booker are on board to get rid of Confederate statues in the capitol. I do think that's not the right move right now. I would focus on Trump and white supremacists instead of statues even though the statues should be gotten rid of.

No. Bam bam is just dumb.

No, it's a conservative talking point and the intellectual playground of Brits living in a country so far gone to the pits of idiocracy that they can only amuse themselves thinking of ways to make it worse for everyone else.

Haha, I was getting worried for a second.

I agree with watershed, leave taking down the statues to the activists and go for the critical hit of attacking Trump's advocating for nazis.

 

[Crocodile]

I mean, I think your friends and family might just be Nazis.

I think tribalism to the extreme is likely more correct (if we are talking about the Chicago stuff). It is frustrating. Obviously we can't do nothing and let Nazis (and other sorts of bigots) walk all over us but apparently defending ourselves causes some number of "moderate" conservatives to get triggered. Catch-22

 

[pigeon]

Yeah, not sure if those are the words I'd use, but I don't think those are potential swing voters. They're just jerks.

As a general rule, if somebody got killed by a Nazi terrorist attack on American soil and your reaction is to be mad about statues, it's hard for me not to see that as, at the very least, Nazi-curious.

 

[NeoXChaos]

This just reminded me that there are 2 Governor's elections this year. Looks like the democrats might win back NJ (because thanks to Christie and Trump, Republicans are toxic, I'm assuming). Hopefully we hold on to VA.

NJ is automatic pickup. I'm kinda worried a little for VA. It's not slam dunk by no means but since we have a Virginian in here he might be better to assess. I read Sabato's analysis today and I can't shake this Warner 2014 vibe I'm getting about that race.

 

[pigeon]

Hey remember the days when I used to get banned for calling people Nazis because it was inflammatory and unreasonable to suggest they were actually genocidal white supremacists? Good times.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Saying that white supremacist terrorists need to be allowed to publicly organize their future acts of terrorism or democracy has ended is maybe the epitome of moderate darlingism.

Yep.

 

[kirblar]

NJ is automatic pickup. I'm kinda worried a little for VA. It's not slam dunk by no means but since we have a Virginian in here he might be better to assess. I read Sabato's analysis today and I can't shake this Warner 2014 vibe I'm getting about that race.

VA elections are boring. If the Us stay high going forward, then worry but until then, the race is in the Dems' favor because the Dems make up an extremely high proportion of the electorate. It looks a lot like last election atm, which is good.

 

[East Lake]

Hey remember the days when I used to get banned for calling people Nazis because it was inflammatory and unreasonable to suggest they were actually genocidal white supremacists? Good times.

Are Nazis and genocidal white supremacists the same thing?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Are Nazis and genocidal white supremacists the same thing?

Serious question?

 

[eBay Huckster]

Wait, is this something Dems are seriously pushing? And it's not just an intellectual exercise among groups like PoliGAF?

no, it's just that

Spoiler

LeBron James isn't playing basketball right now so Bam Bam needs other shitposting outlets

 

[pigeon]

Are Nazis and genocidal white supremacists the same thing?

Is a rectangle with four equal sides a square?

 

[East Lake]

Serious question?

Rhetorical question. Nazism isn't properly described as "genocidal white supremacism." And this seems continuation of a general trend to merge all descriptions of conservatives into one convenient thing.

 

[pigeon]

Rhetorical question. Nazism isn't properly described as "genocidal white supremacism." And this seems continuation of a general trend to merge all descriptions of conservatives into one convenient thing.

Specifically, it's convenient because it's so accurate.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Rhetorical question. Nazism isn't properly described as "genocidal white supremacism." And this seems continuation of a general trend to merge all descriptions of conservatives into one convenient thing.

The march on the weekend was a literal Nazi march.

If they want the flag and salute I'll give them the moniker

 

[Aaron Strife]

VA elections are boring. If the Us stay high going forward, then worry but until then, the race is in the Dems' favor because the Dems make up an extremely high proportion of the electorate. It looks a lot like last election atm, which is good.

A win's a win, but we need to do better than that in order to make any ground in the State House.

 

[East Lake]

Specifically, it's convenient because it's so accurate.

If you say so! There's probably some Nazis among the alt-left marxists as well.

 

[Sibylus]

Oh god unironic usage of alt-left why

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Oh god unironic usage of alt-left why

Because people are stupid

 

[pigeon]

If you say so! There's probably some Nazis among the alt-left marxists as well.

Well, let's wait and see if they support politicians who endorse Nazi murders before we rush to judgement

 

[kadotsu]

Please remember that conservatives are not a monolith. There is a whole spectrum of hate you can find if you just bother to look closer. And some just like to draw graphs and infer false economic policy.