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PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher

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W

Wilsongt

Member
CBS Exec was fired for saying some pretty disgusting things about the Vegas shooting victims.

Good, but conservative media is all over it like flies on shit.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
pigeon said:
It is so doable to ban domestic abusers from purchasing guns that, as Cybit informed me last shooting, this is already the law in most states.

It's just not sufficient to actually make a difference. They need to have their currently existing guns confiscated, and anybody who provides them with a gun that is then used in a crime needs to be tried as an accessory.
Click to expand...

The sort of unspoken issue about trying to adapt what other countries have done w/r/t gun control is that a) our horse has already left the barn, meaning that we already have a crapton of guns out there and running about, and b) our country is really big in population + physical size. (Also, C, which is handguns tend to be the problem, and that is a no go for even most democrats)

Even if you were to pass a law saying "existing guns should be confiscated", there's no real (useful) national database of who owns guns (to be fair, there is basically no non-national security related database of damn well near anything), and there's no way to hunt down all the guns at this point. You could maybe stop increasing the pool, but finding a way to reduce the pool will be hard. The older I get the more I think there's a cultural battle that has to be fought - the culture of ambition, insecurity and fear.

Also, ugh at the shooting. :( :( :(
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
Randolph Freelander said:
I didn't notice any likely irony.
Click to expand...

First thing I thought:

Country music festicval. Only political demo that mostly listens to country is republican. Only group who consistently votes to stop progress on gun legislation ... republicans.

BlastProcessing said:
This is gross.
Click to expand...

I mean I clearly stated nobody deserves to be shot. Maybe I"m the only one who associates country music with conservatism? I can't be sympathetic while noticing this?

PBY said:
You should probably stop posting about this.
Click to expand...

I lied ... my first though was actually, upon waking up, "please done be a brown person"

Like I said ... I've become desensitized to all of this.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Josh Mandel is a little shit.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/10/controversial_figures_launch_s.html

WASHINGTON -- Activists who made waves perpetuating a false sex-crime claim involving Hillary Clinton have formed a new super PAC, and they say the first candidate they're backing is Josh Mandel.

Mandel, the Republican Ohio treasurer who is running for U.S. Senate in 2018, is well aware of the men's backgrounds, and this summer spoke out in their support on Twitter. He said they were unfairly accused by the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish civil rights group, of being linked to groups that spew extremism, terrorism and bigotry.

This came after Mike Cernovich, a writer and blogger and one of the organizers of the new super PAC, promoted the "Pizzagate" conspiracy theory about a Washington pizza parlor being a front for a child sex-trafficking ring linked to Hillary Clinton. A 29-year-old North Carolina man was sentenced to four years in prison for traveling to the pizza parlor and firing a military-style rifle after reading the fake reports about the pizza parlor.

Cernovich also has said that date rape does not exist and leads to false accusations.

One of the other founders of the new super PAC backing Mandel, Jack Posobiec, also promoted the Pizzagate hoax, according to the ADL. He worked with the group Citizens for Trump and promoted the "DeploraBall," an event celebrating Trump's inauguration and drawing supporters who shun Washington's traditional ways.

Cernovich and Posobiec were described by the ADL as members of the "alt-light," a less explicitly racist faction of the loosely affiliated alt-right movement. Cernovich reacted with a posting on the website medium.com and said the ADL was reckless in its characterizations and that his opinions were stated as a writer, not as a group leader who belonged on a civil rights group's "hit list."

Mandel agreed, saying the ADL's listing was dangerous and unfair.

Josh Mandel ✔ @JoshMandelOhio
Sad to see @ADL_National become a partisan witchhunt group targeting people for political beliefs. I stand with @Cernovich & @JackPosobiec https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/887703835753447425 …
8:20 AM - Jul 20, 2017
800 800 Replies 1,144 1,144 Retweets 2,063 2,063 likes
Click to expand...

The third partner in the new super PAC is Jeffrey Giesea, an entrepreneur who has been cited as an expert in "memetic warfare," or the use of jokes, citations and Internet trolling as a way governments and terrorists spread propaganda and wage wars of ideas. Giesea helped create the "troll army" that boosted Trump in the election, according to a December article in BuzzFeed.

The new super PAC, #Rev18, which stands for Revolution 2018, may not by law coordinate its activities with Mandel and his campaign. Super PACs can raise and spend unlimited sums as long as they operate independently of candidates.

The group filed a statement of organization in late August with the Federal Election Commission, which requires any organization that accepts more than $200 from an individual to disclose the donor's identity. The PAC did not publicly announce support for any campaign or candidate until today.

Asked why it chose Mandel, Giesea told cleveland.com, "He is bringing a new type of energy to the Republican Party that we want to see in 2018." He cited Mandel's relative youth -- 40 -- and said Mandel supports an "America-first" agenda, as do this PAC's founders.

A Mandel campaign spokeswoman has not yet responded to a message seeking comment.

The campaign of Sen. Sherrod Brown, the two-term incumbent Democrat Mandel hopes to unseat, said Mandel should quickly distance himself from the super PAC.

"On a day when America is already grieving, it turns my stomach to hear that a group led by bigots will attempt to influence Ohio's election for Senate," said Justin Barasky, Brown's campaign manager. "Josh Mandel should immediately denounce this super PAC, apologize for his previous attempt at currying favor with them and make clear that he rejects hate and divisiveness as a political strategy."

The super PAC, of course, has a different take on Mandel's past support on Twitter for Cernovich and Posobiec.

"I think that was a sign that this guy gets it and is clearly an independent thinker," Giesea said in a telephone interview. "I wouldn't be in business with these guys" if the controversies of the past year accurately defined them, Giesea added.

"We're upping our game, we're going to be professional, we're going to be credible and we're going to win," Giesea said.

Giesea said he has put up $50,000 of his own money and expects to raise more from major donors. Giesea has worked in the past with Peter Thiel, a major Trump donor, and he told The Atlantic that contributors like Thiel and the wealthy donor Robert Mercer would "be good fits."

But Giesea also told cleveland.com that as the PAC works to "drain the swamp," it will operate differently than many traditional PACs and donors.

"A lot of what we're doing is based around social media, and that can't be measured" entirely in dollars, Giesea said.

Giesea acknowledged sharing similar values as Steve Bannon, the Breitbart executive and political adviser who played an outsize role in Trump's early White House days and remains influential in insurgent political efforts. Bannon and his supporters helped rally votes that saw Roy Moore win an upset, anti-establishment victory in the recent Republican U.S. Senate special primary runoff in Alabama.

"We're broadly aligned with Team Bannon," Giesea said. "We're sort of on the same team, but are we aligned with them right now? No.

"But we're fighting the same fight."
Click to expand...
 
B

Blader

Member
Not that I think he should run for president nor do I think he would even get the nomination, but Brown taking on a pizzagate conspiracy nut in 2018 is kind of like the perfect dry run for a 2020 run against Trump.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Fenderputty said:
I lied ... my first though was actually, upon waking up, "please done be a brown person"

Like I said ... I've become desensitized to all of this.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much what I thought.

People have decided to accept mass shootings in America, but swing wildly on their responses to individual mass shootings based on the politics of the particular individual who committed it, despite the fact that the traits that lead most commonly to mass shootings are apolitical.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Fenderputty said:
First thing I thought:

Country music festicval. Only political demo that mostly listens to country is republican. Only group who consistently votes to stop progress on gun legislation ... republicans.



I mean I clearly stated nobody deserves to be shot. Maybe I"m the only one who associates country music with conservatism? I can't be sympathetic while noticing this?



I lied ... my first though was actually, upon waking up, "please done be a brown person"

Like I said ... I've become desensitized to all of this.
Click to expand...

You are projecting your own feelings on everyone else in an attempt to justify them. It's gross.
 
B

barber

Member
Blader said:
Rather than confiscating guns from domestic abusers, they should be unable to legally buy them anywhere in the first place.

Other civilized countries have been able to prevent sporadic outbreaks of mass gun violence without unilaterally confiscating weapons. Mandatory background checks and a national registry is basically all I'm looking for. A buyback program would be cool too.
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Another sad data is the amount of suicides by guns. A lot of people who had a failed suicide attempt dont repeat it as they get a better appreciation of life, but guns really make it hard to have a failed attempt, as well as being a much "easier" solution (as easy as you can say suicide can be).
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
pigeon said:
People have decided to accept mass shootings in America
Click to expand...

This is where I'm at. It just is what it is.

Instead of being totally emotionally worked up, so much so that I'm ignoring entire parts of people's statements to sound morally superior, I look at the scenario and think.

A. Please don't be brown. The politics of gun control is too easily ignored if they are.
B. Who were the targets? Is there a motive?
C. Any links between the targets and the shooter?
D. etc etc

I really don't give a shit if PBY and some random internet person make snap judgements about me while completely ignoring whole parts of my post. The people these concert goers likely vote for were about to make it even easier to kill them next week with the suppressor laws. Does that mean they should die? NO obviously not. I'm still gonna notice.

This shit is normal every day Americana at this point. Just like apple pie and baseball.

BlastProcessing said:
You are projecting your own feelings on everyone else in an attempt to justify them. It's gross.
Click to expand...

I didn't feel my feeling needed justification. If I did I wouldn't have assumed you were all feeling them. Apparently I was wrong and am the only person here who noticed the likely political connection of the victims and the topic of gun control's roll in the prevention of mass shootings.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Russian trolls are going to be paid overtime trying to pit us against each other over this. meanwhile Alex Jones does it to sell his shitty MREs and gold bug scams.
 
P

Pyrokai

Member
Wait....is Mandel running in a primary this fall to get the nomination for Republican challenger to Sherrod Brown???

I live in Ohio and if there's anything I can do this fall, please let me know lol
 
G

Greigor The Fellhand

Member
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-company-had-more-contact-with-russia-during-campaign-according-to-documents-turned-over-to-investigators/2017/10/02/2091fe5e-a6c0-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html?utm_term=.f61662df4652

Oppo MONDAY =D

In one case, Trump’s personal attorney and a business associate exchanged emails weeks before the Republican National Convention about traveling to an economic conference in Russia that would be attended by top Russian financial and government leaders, including President Vladi­mir Putin, according to people familiar with the correspondence.

In the other case, the same Trump attorney, Michael Cohen, received a proposal in late 2015 for a Moscow residential project from a company founded by a billionaire who once served in the Russian Senate, these people said. The previously unreported inquiry marks the second proposal for a Trump-branded Moscow project that was delivered to the company during the presidential campaign and has since come to light.
Click to expand...

The June 2016 email to Cohen about the economic conference came from Felix Sater, a Russian-born real estate developer and former Trump business associate. Sater encouraged Cohen to attend the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, with Sater telling Cohen that he could be introduced to Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian prime minister, top financial leaders and perhaps to Putin, according to people familiar with the correspondence. At one point, Sater told Cohen that Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, could help arrange the discussions, according to a person familiar with the exchange.
Click to expand...



from the steele dossier
RUSSIA/US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: FURTHER DETAILS OF TRUMP LAWYER COHEN'S SECRET LIAISON WITH THE KREMLIN

Summary

— Kremlin insider reports TRUMP lawyer COHEN's secret meeting/s with Kremlin officials in August 2016 was/were held in Prague

— Russian parastatal organisation Rossotrudnichestvo used as cover for this liaison and premises in Czech capital may have been used for the meeting/s

— Pro-PUTIN leading Duma figure, KOSACHEV, reportedly involved as "plausibly deniable" facilitator and may have participated in the August meeting/s with COHEN
Click to expand...
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
pigeon said:
It is so doable to ban domestic abusers from purchasing guns that, as Cybit informed me last shooting, this is already the law in most states.

It's just not sufficient to actually make a difference. They need to have their currently existing guns confiscated, and anybody who provides them with a gun that is then used in a crime needs to be tried as an accessory.
Click to expand...

Without a universal background check requirement, private sales and gun show sales can continue. I don't think the state bans you mention have teeth if private individuals are not required to perform the check that would prevent the sale to begin with.

Also, without a universal registry to then track those items through the supply/demand chain you lose sight of most transctions.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Blader said:
Well yes, gun confiscation is more effective than anything else. But I'm looking for the doable middle ground between something that won't happen and nothing happening at all.

Doable being relative, of course, since literally nothing on gun control is doable with this Congress or administration or Republican Party.
Click to expand...

Seizure of property upon criminal conviction is actually pretty standard. We just need to enforce that and expand it a bit.

Also, a good move (inefficient but maybe more constitutional) is to require gun owners to maintain insurance on their weapons. If a gun registered to you ends up involved in a crime and your insurance company doesn't buy your security setup (no gun safe, ammo available, etc) then they jack up your premiums.

See how many people sell guns without transferring licenses then. See how many people load up on weapons. See how many people even want to keep selling them.
 
A

androvsky

Member
Greigor The Fellhand said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-company-had-more-contact-with-russia-during-campaign-according-to-documents-turned-over-to-investigators/2017/10/02/2091fe5e-a6c0-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html?utm_term=.f61662df4652

Oppo MONDAY =D

from the steele dossier
Click to expand...

I'm a bit confused here. The conference was in Russia, wasn't in August afaict from the story, and Cohn didn't go because it conflicted with the GOP convention.

Edit: I'm extra confused, since I looked up the conference and it was in the middle of June 2016, while the GOP conference was the middle of July.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
AndyD said:
Without a universal background check requirement, private sales and gun show sales can continue. I don't think the state bans you mention have teeth if private individuals are not required to perform the check that would prevent the sale to begin with.

Also, without a universal registry to then track those items through the supply/demand chain you lose sight of most transctions.
Click to expand...

Yeah and the registry part is where the gun nuts derive most of their fear from too. I've argued with people who understand smart regulation, but they're still against it because what if the government changed their minds and wanted confiscation. Now they're on a list.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Fenderputty said:
Yeah and the registry part is where the gun nuts derive most of their fear from too. I've argued with people who understand smart regulation, but they're still against it because what if the government changed their minds and wanted confiscation. Now they're on a list.
Click to expand...
You see the same "but mah privacy" stuff w/ anti-regulation stuff w/ guns and the internet.

People obsess over the potential effects on their life, ignoring all the externalities.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
kirblar said:
You see the same "but mah privacy" stuff w/ anti-regulation stuff w/ guns and the internet.

People obsess over the potential effects on their life, ignoring all the externalities.
Click to expand...

It's one of the reasons I don't like when liberals discuss confiscation though. It's easily the least likely thing to happen out of all the gun control proposals and its easily the most useful politically divisive tool.

I still maintain the quickest way to control control legislation is to have liberals (specifically minorities) arm the fuck up.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
Fenderputty said:
It's one of the reasons I don't like when liberals discuss confiscation though. It's easily the least likely thing to happen out of all the gun control proposals and its easily the most useful politically divisive tool.

I still maintain the quickest way to control control legislation is to have liberals (specifically minorities) arm the fuck up.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this is satire, but I chuckled.

The reality is that so many other measures are predicated on a solid inventory/registry of both guns AND individuals who are disallowed from owning them that without it they would suffer even if passed.

But just like canabis research being banned, the market forces against these are such that it would take a major change in how government works before they happen.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
AndyD said:
I'm not sure if this is satire, but I chuckled.

The reality is that so many other measures are predicated on a solid inventory/registry of both guns AND individuals who are disallowed from owning them that without it they would suffer even if passed.

But just like canabis research being banned, the market forces against these are such that it would take a major change in how government works before they happen.
Click to expand...

I made a couple points so I'm not sure which you found humorous. lol

I agree that a registry is needed. It's why I said I don't like confiscation talk!
 
S

studyguy

Member
DLKf9FQXoAAJuWG.jpg:large
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20wk Abortion Ban endorsed by WH.
WELP
 
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