ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
You know what else is unhealthy? Talking about the 2016 primaries and the failure of Hillary every week since Nov 8th, 2016.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
- Thread starter Aaron Strife
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You know what else is unhealthy? Talking about the 2016 primaries and the failure of Hillary every week since Nov 8th, 2016.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Neither Bush nor Clinton are obsessions.
Kennedy family legitimately is, though.
The Kennedy family hasn't been an obsession for two decades.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
it's actually extremely cool and good that being born into the right family guarantees you political success if you want itNo more Kennedys, no more Clintons, no more Bushes. The obsession with dynasties in American politics is frankly deeply unhealthy.
Autodidact
Banned
No more Kennedys, no more Clintons, no more Bushes. The obsession with dynasties in American politics is frankly deeply unhealthy.
You live in a country with a monarchy and a real fucking aristocracy.
Basileus777
Member
You live in a country with a monarchy and a real fucking aristocracy.
SMH. This is just serving Crab on a platter here.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
No more Kennedys, no more Clintons, no more Bushes. The obsession with dynasties in American politics is frankly deeply unhealthy.
I was this guy prior to the 2016 primaries. There are posts of me, in the PoliGAF thread, saying that I was uncomfortable with Clinton because of the dynastic thing. I think in hindsight that wasn't exactly correct; a spousal relationship is not a hereditary one.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The majority of people who are eligible to vote were not even alive to see a Kennedy be president.
Can you imagine an alternate history where FDR shouldn't have ran because TR was president 30 years before? And that was 30 years, this is 60 years!
Can you imagine an alternate history where FDR shouldn't have ran because TR was president 30 years before? And that was 30 years, this is 60 years!
Aaron Strife
Banned
But Chelsea Clinton is totally going to run for president!A former President and his wife does not constitute a fucking dynasty.
If you want to harp on the Clintons at least use the right words.
Hillary blinked it in Morse code at her last rally.
Mark Andrew
Member
But Chelsea Clinton is totally going to run for president!
Hillary blinked it in Morse code at her last rally.
Didnt someone from Clinton-world say that Bill wanted to see Chelsea run against Ivanka? Lol
whyamihere
Banned
who cares about the Kennedys
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
The Kennedy family hasn't been an obsession for two decades.
But was enough of one that the family name still gets trotted out even now.
You live in a country with a monarchy and a real fucking aristocracy.
Literally those people are not allowed to participate at all in the political system.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Literally those people are not allowed to participate at all in the political system.
Queen sure, but the House of Lords still has political power no?
Queen sure, but the House of Lords still has political power no?
Almost all of the House of Lords is life peers. Those can't really be called aristocrats since their title dissolves upon their death. But sure, there are ninety hereditary peers who sit in Lords that you could be concerned about, although I'd be more worried about the twenty-four bishops.
Also the powers of the House of Lords are very restricted as a result of its unelected nature -- it can't originate or reject legislation, only delay and amend.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Additionally, as I understand, they do not use the powers they have for fear of incurring the wrath of the electorate and prevent themselves from being dissolved.Almost all of the House of Lords is life peers. Those can't really be called aristocrats since their title dissolves upon their death.
Also the powers of the House of Lords are very restricted as a result of its unelected nature -- it can't originate or reject legislation, only delay and amend.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Almost all of the House of Lords is life peers. Those can't really be called aristocrats since their title dissolves upon their death. But sure, there are ninety hereditary peers who sit in Lords that you could be concerned about, although I'd be more worried about the twenty-four bishops.
Also the powers of the House of Lords are very restricted as a result of its unelected nature -- it can't originate or reject legislation, only delay and amend.
I'm not sure if I'd qualify "hereditary passage of title" as a requirement for aristocracy. The House of Lords is composed of appointees by the Queen and PM no? Regardless point taken about their relatively restrained exercise of power
I'm not sure if I'd qualify "hereditary passage of title" as a requirement for aristocracy. The House of Lords is composed of appointees by the Queen and PM no?
So is the Supreme Court of the United States.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Not impeached by republicans. If Democrats take over congress then they will impeach.
A former President and his wife does not constitute a fucking dynasty.
If you want to harp on the Clintons at least use the right words.
It's how it works in less developed democracies, though. "Dynasty" can be within the same generation, like with current Pakistani president Zardari, who is the husband of the deceased former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. I doubt anyone would contest that Raul Castro is dynastic either, despite being Fidel's brother.
I think we need more diversity in our leaders, so sure, I'm fine with saying "dynasties are bad"
Dems don't seem to like dynastic candidates anyways. What do we have to show for Gore and Hillary? Not much. Bill and Obama both made their personal narratives an innate part of their appeal to great success.
Dems don't seem to like dynastic candidates anyways. What do we have to show for Gore and Hillary? Not much. Bill and Obama both made their personal narratives an innate part of their appeal to great success.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
4 hours till the deadline. Here's everyone I've got so far.
Spoiled Milk said:lol no
my 10% prediction
Each week stories and actions by senate against trump will ramp up
leading to formal announcements of charges by muellers team in october
Depends on D House takeover. If so then yes. Convicted? no
If R still control House then no.
Yes. Over/under 10/31.
never
Nope.
Yes impeach, O/U 10/1
Also I think there is a good chance of a medical retirement
No chance. He'll likely resign after a year. Claiming he accomplished everything he wanted and left early because he was so successful 4 years would be pointless, or blame everyone in Washington and say it's irreparable.
missed this
March 2019
Yes, 9/7/2019.
3/15/18
Not gonna be impeached me thinks.
Not gonna be impeached. Also not gonna be re-elected.
Not gonna be impeached me thinks.
I'm going to err on the side of he's never impeached, because I'm not even sure the Democrats will win the House. I don't think the GOP would ever do that to their incumbent president.
Yes. When McConnell and co do the math and see out of control trump is a net liability. Sadly they aren't worried about the party turning nakedly racist and literally nazi, but do care about losing seats and control.
Yes. A unanimous democratic vote and a few sacrificial GOP martyrs and retirees will vote for impeachment.
My votes on yes. He's a way bigger liability to the party then an asset. Who cares about his hardcore base when hes turning away the independents and even some long time republicans. My bet is once Mueller's got everything ready for his case they're going to try and dump him as quickly as possible.
Yes. He is successfully pissing off all Republicans and destroying their reputation. Guessing by the end of the year/early next year after the debt ceiling, budget, and tax reform all blow up in Trump's/GOP's face. Trump just threw an egg in the GOP's face with the 3 month debt ceiling extension. I could see McConnell and Ryan trying to wait till post-2018, so they don't nuke the Republican party right before midterms. Granted it is a lose-lose for them as Trump is going to tank them in the midterms regardless.
Not impeached by republicans. If Democrats take over congress then they will impeach.
I'm in with a "Yes, there's too much stuff Mueller is obviously finding about criminal activity unrelated or tangentially related to the election and he's pissing off Ryan and McConnell"
I don't think Trump gets impeached. I do think he resigns though. Not necessarily over the obstruction stuff.
It's a no on impeachment from me dawg
I guess I'll put down a guess that impeachment proceedings will begin by April 1 2019, but that he'll resign before it passes the House.
...put me down as Yes on impeachment proceedings.
Our politics have already been turned into a shitty version of a gets-more-hype-than-it-deserves Netflix series, might as well go all the way.
It's the series finale this shitshow deserves.
It's how it works in less developed democracies, though. "Dynasty" can be within the same generation, like with current Pakistani president Zardari, who is the husband of the deceased former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. I doubt anyone would contest that Raul Castro is dynastic either, despite being Fidel's brother.
If you pretend that Hillary only matters because of Bill. Then yes it could apply.
But it's not.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
4 hours till the deadline. Here's everyone I've got so far.
I'm in with a "Yes, there's too much stuff Mueller is obviously finding about criminal activity unrelated or tangentially related to the election and he's pissing off Ryan and McConnell"
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Less than zero chance he's impeached.Jesus Christ. Ok, I'm officially starting the Trump Impeachment Prediction Competition. Quote this post and post whether you think Trump will be impeached or not, with an optional over/under. Deadline is next week.
If Democrats take the house and senate in 2018, I will upgrade the odds from less than zero, to zero.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I honestly doubt Trump goes down for "Russian election collusion", but it was the excuse to get someone like Mueller the authority needed to dig into literally all the other criminal activity that's the basis of Trump's entire business
EDIT: Okay if Trump resigns under threat of impeachment that counts
EDIT: Okay if Trump resigns under threat of impeachment that counts
excelsiorlef
Member
No more Kennedys, no more Clintons, no more Bushes. The obsession with dynasties in American politics is frankly deeply unhealthy.
Clintons were husband and Wife. Not a dynasty.
whyamihere
Banned
It's a no on impeachment from me dawg
excelsiorlef
Member
it's actually extremely cool and good that being born into the right family guarantees you political success if you want it
Well guess that's why Hillary lost because she wasn't born into the right family?
Sirpopopop
Member
Jesus Christ. Ok, I'm officially starting the Trump Impeachment Prediction Competition. Quote this post and post whether you think Trump will be impeached or not, with an optional over/under. Deadline is next week.
No.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Dynasty is rule by lineage but the only Clintons to ever take office were Bill and Hillary. Hillary isn't related to Bill, and Chelsea's never going to get into politics. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to look at a couple composed of a middle class woman and a poor hippie and to call that a dynasty.
excelsiorlef
Member
Dynasty is rule by lineage but the only Clintons to ever take office were Bill and Hillary. Hillary isn't related to Bill, and Chelsea's never going to get into politics. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to look at a couple composed of a middle class woman and a poor hippie and to call that a dynasty.
Seriously
IggyChooChoo
Member
I guess I'll put down a guess that impeachment proceedings will begin by April 1 2019, but that he'll resign before it passes the House.4 hours till the deadline. Here's everyone I've got so far.
I was this guy prior to the 2016 primaries. There are posts of me, in the PoliGAF thread, saying that I was uncomfortable with Clinton because of the dynastic thing. I think in hindsight that wasn't exactly correct; a spousal relationship is not a hereditary one.
The problem is the same - advantage gained through something other than merit. The real reason dynasties are bad isn't fairness, but practicality. Dynasties weaken competition and states corrode. However, this specific example isn't even generational in nature. It should still be examined through a critical lens, but if anything, a woman emerging from the shadow of a charismatic and powerful husband is unique, not more of the same.
The problem is the same - advantage gained through something other than merit. The real reason dynasties are bad isn't fairness, but practicality. Dynasties weaken competition and states corrode. However, this specific example isn't even generational in nature. It should still be examined through a critical lens, but if anything, a woman emerging from the shadow of a charismatic and powerful husband is unique, not more of the same.
Considering that Hillary in many ways was/is more qualified than Bill it's almost the reverse, and many in their inner circle joke that Bill held Hillary back so he could be governor and then president.
Edit. Bill even said it himself in public before iirc.
excelsiorlef
Member
Considering that Hillary in many ways was/is more qualified than Bill it's almost the reverse, and many in their inner circle joke that Bill held Hillary back so he could be governor and then president.
People forget that Hillary was the bread winner of the couple
Basileus777
Member
Hillary was plenty qualified, but she probably never becomes a leading Presidential candidate (in either 2008 or 2016) if not for the last name she adopted and the connections and attention that came with being the spouse of a President.
American dynasties are an outcome, not a cause. I have no problem with dynasties, I have a problem with the political system that puts the children of the wealthy at an enormous advantage when it comes to the political pipeline. This is particularly obvious in the judiciary, with the Ivy undergrad -> ivy law w/ SCOTUS clerk experience -> no actual life experience --> ??? -> SCOTUS path that has become the norm, particularly among Republicans. (Looking at you Gorsuch, you fuck)
You could say the same about the fact that our federal government is run by a bunch of unpaid and underpaid 20-somethings who are living off of their parents' money. What the fuck kind of expectation is that of our public servants? How can we be surprised when the people who staff the federal government are wealthy and lilywhite or at the policy outcomes they produce??
You could say the same about the fact that our federal government is run by a bunch of unpaid and underpaid 20-somethings who are living off of their parents' money. What the fuck kind of expectation is that of our public servants? How can we be surprised when the people who staff the federal government are wealthy and lilywhite or at the policy outcomes they produce??
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I mean, she was a two-term senator and secretary of state which as I understand it are fairly prestigious positions in the American government.Well guess that's why Hillary lost because she wasn't born into the right family?
Anyways I wasn't even trying to complain about Hillary, the bigger issue is people getting excited that one of the million Kennedys (Kennedies?) who have political power by virtue of their last name has political power and wants him to accumulate more power.
You left out Harrison and Udall!American dynasties, ranked.
Roosevelt
Adams
Kennedy
Clinton
Taft
Bush
Breckinridge
American dynasties are an outcome, not a cause. I have no problem with dynasties, I have a problem with the political system that puts the children of the wealthy at an enormous advantage when it comes to the political pipeline. This is particularly obvious in the judiciary, with the Ivy undergrad -> ivy law w/ SCOTUS clerk experience -> no actual life experience --> ??? -> SCOTUS path that has become the norm, particularly among Republicans. (Looking at you Gorsuch, you fuck)
You could say the same about the fact that our federal government is run by a bunch of unpaid and underpaid 20-somethings who are living off of their parents' money. What the fuck kind of expectation is that of our public servants? How can we be surprised when the people who staff the federal government are wealthy and lilywhite or at the policy outcomes they produce??
This all seems exactly correct. The problem with dynasties is that they reflect the oligarchic tendencies of the American system. That's also why people don't like talking about or acknowledging their existence!
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Yeah this is all correct!American dynasties are an outcome, not a cause. I have no problem with dynasties, I have a problem with the political system that puts the children of the wealthy at an enormous advantage when it comes to the political pipeline. This is particularly obvious in the judiciary, with the Ivy undergrad -> ivy law w/ SCOTUS clerk experience -> no actual life experience --> ??? -> SCOTUS path that has become the norm, particularly among Republicans. (Looking at you Gorsuch, you fuck)
You could say the same about the fact that our federal government is run by a bunch of unpaid and underpaid 20-somethings who are living off of their parents' money. What the fuck kind of expectation is that of our public servants? How can we be surprised when the people who staff the federal government are wealthy and lilywhite or at the policy outcomes they produce??
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