As compared to what generation? Are you including cross generation support for order hardware?
I think from a PC gamer/enthusiasts POV who has been following GPU news; the hardware specs are nothing to write home about. Which is to say, its fine for what it is. And we can kind of guess that it should perform around a 7700XT to 7800XT/3080/4070 once you factor optimizations and API; which is totally fine. And PSSR looks to be solid as upscaling tech goes. Maybe not revolutionary as we've had this kind of performance/image quality that could've been had for many years. But for console players having high quality upscaling way and way better RT performance will be a boon, for sure. And in the current market, its looking to be an nifty piece of hardware for sub $600.
Avoid hardware obsolescence with PS5 when games are still being released on PS4 in 2024?
I mean, they have gotten longer, but "more than double" only applies to a few cherry picked examples. Out of our major console releases we have Master System to Genesis, Saturn to Dreamcast, and Xbox to 360. In these examples, either the current console was failing to compete in their main markets, or in the case of Xbox, was never able to be produced at anything other than a loss. Every other console release cadence has exceeded the stated 4-5 year cycle.
How is that "brute forcing" anything though? Hardware gets older and you get more powerful solutions because often times, there is no other answer than better hardware. I'm not sure how brute forcing applies here. Gamers buy a console in 2014, by 2018, much better PC parts are available for cheap and they choose those instead. Where is the brute forcing part there?
Which is cool but when did I ever say anything about the "origins" of frame generation? I say we got it on PC and it's slowly making its way to consoles. Frame generation is widespread on PC but still very niche in consoles. I didn't say a thing about anyone inventing it. Same for VRR which gained real traction half a decade after Wipeout HD. Regardless, that's besides the point because I misconstrued the top part of your post.
Correct, but that's already what DLSS does, so I'm not sure why you implied the Pro would make better hardware irrelevant? The 4070 at 1080p performs like a 4090 at 4K. You can use DLSS Performance a lot of the times and get a good image quality with a 4K output with much better performance than native 4K. Native resolution has been an irrelevant topic on PC for years now. The only useful thing about it is that it allows an apples to apples comparison without subjective views on how image quality stacks up. You said before that the RTX 2060 didn't make teraflops comparison irrelevant to which I beg to differ. It did definitely make comparing hardware directly irrelevant. What matters is the final result and the specs sheets no longer reflect that. Native is useless beyond academic purposes (or when the res is too low to do anything but that's another topic).
Strictly speaking frame-gen got popularized on VR devices, and then made its way to flat-screens.
Well SW is still designed for older hw/targets - so it's kind of true - you're just making older stuff run faster with more pixels. And often we can find older titles that give modern GPUs a fair work-out because they're actually suboptimal for modern architectures(hw evolution isn't just making faster horses) - we've seen that repeat every 5 years or so.
It's about keeping up engagement / active userbase. One thing that happened in past generations (consistently - with all 3 console makers) is complete collapse of active-users when new generations started. This transition was the first time that avoided that cycle, and part of that was the result of Pro refreshes.
Well imo, releasing exclusive games on PC, even if it came on console 3 year before, isn't good for engagement.
Fair - but that's a different conversation (and entirely possible part of a different strategy).
I think by hardware obsolescence he means the ceiling of acceptable performance for the consoles naturally gets lower and lower as the gen progresses. Typically, this is fine because by now, in say the PS2 gen, we would be talking about new consoles coming out next year (on the 5th year) or at worst the year after that. But when we have generations lasting as long 7-8 years, it makes sense to release something in between that allowing the console performance ceiling to be raised again, and letting what was the previous ceiling become the official floor.
I believe the target is to take whatever a dev would make on the base PS5 fidelity mode which runs at 30fps, and get that running at 60fps, with the same quality or slightly better quality. Most modern game engines are already generally scalable right now, so by default, having more performance to drive the same code will result in better results. Eg... things like RT and resolution are tied to fixed dynamic presets for the framerate.
Listen... all that you are saying... is nonsense. You have console gamers and you have PC gamers and you have those that are both. While they all subscribe to the same market, they are very different audiences. Sony doesn't sell on average 100M consoles every gen, because they convinced 100M people to NOT buy a PC that were going to or looking to build a PC to begin with. Any more than no one who wants to build a PC and have the money o do it comfortably,m is going to say they are not going to do that simply because there is a new console coming out.
Strange way to phrase it in this context. Evolving hardware is just a natural process.
Doesn't matter how many times this gets repeated. Gaffers are convinced that they are the norm and that gamers either have consoles or 4090-tier PCs. The only reasons to own a PC are super awesome visuals and frame rates even though most PC gamers have low to mid-tier rigs and the most popular games are a lot of novelty and indie stuff. There is some overlap in their markets but by and large, they are separate, which is why Sony has opted to port its games to PC because they realized most of the audience there wouldn't budge.
Brute forcing is where a game designed around 30fps animations and feedback loop on console is just being given a higher capped frame-rate on PC.
I'd wager the majority of gaf have pretty capable PCs though so that skews perception. This is an enthusiast forum. Most of us with pc's here aren't rocking 970's still.
I hope you keep that same energy when xbox launches the 2tb at $599 this holiday.
What am I being a warrior of exactly? Calling out some of you for having unrealistic expectations is being a warrior? If you expect the world of this thing that's fine but some of us have a little sense. My post history is open. I'm also a huge PlayStation fan. In fact i bet my first post in this very thread was about wanting this. I came in to check the thread for the first time in a while to see if there's been any news and i saw some people acting foolish so I responded. Unless you're one of the fools there's no reason to be upset.
I don't think it's off-base to see PS4Pro helps retain MAUs (and likely high engagement ones because they're the bigger spenders). I did say it's 'one' of the factors - I don't think it's solely responsible of course... But personally it certainly helped me stay spending in the PS ecosystem even though PC/Steam is my primary.
I mean yea - but that was the selling point of consoles since - well always.
I guess it's the difference between running an old release at 8k with 4xSSAA @ 120hz (aka 'brute-force' remastering) and playing the remake of same game at 1800p @ 60hz (I'm not gonna name a game - but there's some recent examples that even on higher end PCs make it tough... ).
100% agree with this. I am in the both crowd and they are very different bits of hardware to me. I am also equally impressed with both from a technical standpoint. I understand why some will only pick one as it meets there needs but do get a bit sick and tired of the PCMR thinking that we didn't know what we are talking about.
That's the total as of Jan 2020, correct? The PS4 hit 50 million units in December 2016, just a few weeks after the Pro was launched. So between December 2016 and January 2020, it sold another 55 million units, including 14.3 million Pro models. That means the Pro represented about 25% of the total number of PS4 sold between its release and January 2020. 1 in every 4 PS4 which I believe Sony divulged a while back.
Yea I kind of suspect upgraders were also the majority of buyers, but it's a good question.
And if that % held we'd have another 3+M of Pros sold by end of life, bringing total pretty close to 20M in the end.
You don't bet again Jensen. Blackedwell will deliver.
Thing is when I am able to talk more openly no one will care because everything will be out there
Just wait til you get to Days Gone.I got a ps5 slim late last year after ignoring the PlayStation ecosystem since the launch of the PS3. I bought a handful of popular first and third party games on sale and been slowly playing through them all, and quite frankly I’m having a fucking blast. I’m currently on Ghost of Tsushima and holy shit does it have to be the best looking and running console game I’ve ever played. And it’s a cross gen title from 4 years ago? !
I know art direction has a ton to do with it but if the pro allows devs to deliver this caliber of performance on past, present, and future AAA titles going forward, I’ll have no choice but to upgrade. I hope devs update their games to take advantage of the hardware’s capabilities as there are a lot of quality titles I’ve yet to play.
I get that most here who have PCs likely have a decent one. While I won't call my PC high-end anymore, I do have a 3080 in it (waiting to see what AMD does with REDNA4 before I upgrade), and use it primarily as a HTPC and xbox games machine. I prefer to play on a console, but you don't see me going into any PC-focused thread and bringing up consoles there. I like what I like, and I respect that others do the same. Neednt be anything more than that... some people clearly can't accept that.
I am also in the both category. I gather some people just can't help themselves but be trolls.
Honestly a 4070 in term of performance and if the PSSR is a good uspcale tech and not FSR trash tier with way better RT (not like it's really hard compared to the base PS5) for a console that would cost around $600.
I don't read too much into Twitter leaks and nonsense, but this will be interesting if true.
Wait, I haven't followed gaming much these past few weeks but what is pssr?
Oh, thanks, we'll see but I remember their checkerboard rendering was pretty good back then (especialy in Death Stranding).
Well I got the gist of it.He made it simple enough so a simple guy like me would get it.
