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PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)

PaintTinJr

Member




I believe Gravity Rush utilized an unnamed, in-house Japan Studio engine. Regarding FromSoftware, their only Unreal Engine game was Déraciné for PSVR, as all their other modern titles including the Souls series make use of an unnamed propietary engine.

When people say unnamed engine, most of the time that is still just one of the major engines with proprietary customisations and a large amount of money paid to the engine company to be able to de-badge and release unlimited games via that license. Very few companies have the desire or staff capable of building an inhouse engine, so the ones that do like HelloGames and Rebellion want you to know they actually built their own.
 

Trogdor1123

Gold Member
Oh my concern, at the time, even with the SSD, was that the GPU along with 16GB of RAM would not age well. The PS5 Pro seems to bump the Ram speed by a decent amount and free up an extra 1.2GB for developers!

The Pro could finally make the coveted 4K60 standard a reality. Add PSSR and the CPU bump, and the PS5 has the ability to really shake things up.

Unfortunately, it would benefit PSVR even more, but Sony seems to have killed those hopes.
I see what you are getting at now. Hopefully they can get it all figured out.
 
I'm also of the mindset(and may be mistaken) that PS5 hasn't really been pushed like we saw the PS4 in it's middle to later years.

This generation began during COVID and the economical affects(supply, lower spending, inflation) has resulted in many games remaining cross-gen even in 2024, though I know the install base matters for the money games cost these days.


PS5 Pro seems like a system wherein the specs may not line up like we expect them to, but the system performs well above expectations, similar to the original PS5.

I, myself, would've hoped for a better upgrade on the CPU, but that's okay. It's a bump, it helps.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
I was thinking more a mid-gen PS2 Pro upgrade with the GS at a level to do PS2 graphics with more fillrate to take 480p30 -> 720p60 (with hdmi/component on the outputs as standard) with higher quality textures from more memory and an HDD as standard
GS was largely very capable of running HD resolutions already - the main limiter was available memory to do it. 32MB variant solved that.
It would still need higher clocks though - especially CPU side - to really get improved framerates - that gen of consoles was CPU limited across the board - even the XBox. IIRC both chips could in fact clock quite a bit higher after the node-shrinks though.
HDD was also on the table - the protoype PS2s that used XMB also housed built in storage from what I recall. So yea - it'd be around the lines you were thinking - though maybe not quite the 4x jump, but close enough for what we usually get from a 'Pro' iteration.

the PS2 market share alone would have made PS2 Pro the core platform of choice for FPSes that the 360 successfully stole nearly 2years before the PS3 launched, and maintained a 50% share of that audience for the entire 360/PS3 gen, and was probably IMO the main reason why the PS2 gen had its legs cut short.
Not sure how that would work though. PS2 was still outselling 360 for the first 2 years on the market, but software development was aggressively moving into HD era because everyone was anticipating that to be the next market leader, and cost of that switch was still substantial. Also - PS3 plans were originally on a more aggressive timeline - so there really wasn't much space to insert a mid-gen upgrade even if they had it figured out.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
...

Not sure how that would work though. PS2 was still outselling 360 for the first 2 years on the market, but software development was aggressively moving into HD era because everyone was anticipating that to be the next market leader, and cost of that switch was still substantial. Also - PS3 plans were originally on a more aggressive timeline - so there really wasn't much space to insert a mid-gen upgrade even if they had it figured out.
Maybe what I was trying to say wasn't so obvious because I suspect when I said Pro upgrade, it was assumed to mean a continuation of the PS2 hardware of the non-Pro original to keep it easy for Devs. But for the PS2 gen, PlayStation would have known that the dev side of things was a disaster compared to OG Xbox, and despite the OG Xbox failing with customers the 360 was built on all that developer momentum of OG Xbox IMO, and the lack of a PS2 Pro - like a 1.4GHz clocked POWER + PC GPU combo akin to launch PS3 games just using the PPU and RSX - the ability to steal that momentum back via PS2 market share momentum was a massive missed opportunity.

You rightfully point out that devs were aggressively moving into the HD era, but even at the time the PC space was dominated by targeting 8bit colour precision at SVGA resolution - because most PC GPUs weren't HD ready for HDR 10bit precision other than the cutting edge ATI/Nvidia cards - and the launch 360 equally lacked in cable outputs - no hdmi -, EDRam size for more than SVGA, was an 8bit colour pipeline and was missing ASICs for sRGB gamma texture correction for actual HD gaming, so a PS2 Pro as a mini low clocked PS3 without any SPUs and just 64MB and a HDD could have easily usurped any dev leanings to the 360 IMO, and helped ramp up to a much later PS3 release, keeping the PS2 dev gen alive longer by brand as a hanger-on to a PS2 Pro that would have given devs marketing to the whole market, but with a PS2 Pro being their main dev focus and a ramp to easier PS3 development for launch in 2007/8
 
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Polygonal_Sprite

Gold Member
I'm calling cap on you for MANY reasons
  • High-end router that you can't even specify?
  • You think that because you have 1gb down and 300mbps up that is saying something? No talk of latency or packet loss which would have been the real things you wanted to brag about tells me you have no idea what you're talking about and your network is probably trash
  • Presumably that was your experience from day 1, so you easily could have returned it
Cap? I’m old but doesn’t that mean “true”?

I’ll post the machine in my hands with my username and date if you don’t believe I have it. I didn’t return it on day one well because I collect consoles so merely having it was worth the £250 I paid for it. It’s (as usual from Sony) a very nice looking device.

I have no idea how to mess with my router settings. I called it high end because it’s literally a brand new much larger, more modern looking router from Virgin I needed to upgrade to for the 1gb down service I recently upgraded to. I assumed it was a high end device compared to some router people have for a 100mb connection for example. My bad.

Try maybe helping someone rather than frothing at the mouth with insults, insinuations and baseless assumptions.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Cap? I’m old but doesn’t that mean “true”?

I’ll post the machine in my hands with my username and date if you don’t believe I have it. I didn’t return it on day one well because I collect consoles so merely having it was worth the £250 I paid for it. It’s (as usual from Sony) a very nice looking device.

I have no idea how to mess with my router settings. I called it high end because it’s literally a brand new much larger, more modern looking router from Virgin I needed to upgrade to for the 1gb down service I recently upgraded to. I assumed it was a high end device compared to some router people have for a 100mb connection for example. My bad.

Try maybe helping someone rather than frothing at the mouth with insults, insinuations and baseless assumptions.

Don't forget your ip address and password.

The PS Portal is not a console.

I'm dying laughing that you think the router from Virgin that is much larger and more modern looking means that it is high end.

Helping someone? Why do you think I'm here to help you?

My assumptions were entirely on point.

At best you have a Virgin Hub 5.

Googling this and "gaming" what do I get back?

High Ping and latency issues Hub5

1gig, hub 5, unusable for online gaming, packet lo... - 5280589

Why is Virgin so bad for gaming... : r/VirginMedia

https://www.reddit.com/r/VirginMedia/comments/17ekl7z/why_is_virgin_so_bad_for_gaming/
Maybe someone trying to do remote play shouldn't be using a cheap ISP router and blaming the experience on Sony... None of which is to say that the experience would be good anyways, but it's laughable coming in from the angle you're coming in.
 

jm89

Member
I wish Sony/MS would hurry up with PS5-Pro/XSX-2 already

I'm not getting any younger, i wanna see what's next for my favorite hobby.
Here's your XSX-2
xboxseriesxwhite.jpg
 
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Polygonal_Sprite

Gold Member
Maybe someone trying to do remote play shouldn't be using a cheap ISP router and blaming the experience on Sony... None of which is to say that the experience would be good anyways, but it's laughable coming in from the angle you're coming in.
I'm glad you're here to stand up for the poor billionaire company Sony. Thank God!
 

jm89

Member
Cap? I’m old but doesn’t that mean “true”?

I’ll post the machine in my hands with my username and date if you don’t believe I have it. I didn’t return it on day one well because I collect consoles so merely having it was worth the £250 I paid for it. It’s (as usual from Sony) a very nice looking device.

I have no idea how to mess with my router settings. I called it high end because it’s literally a brand new much larger, more modern looking router from Virgin I needed to upgrade to for the 1gb down service I recently upgraded to. I assumed it was a high end device compared to some router people have for a 100mb connection for example. My bad.

Try maybe helping someone rather than frothing at the mouth with insults, insinuations and baseless assumptions.
Is your ps5 connected via ethernet?

If so the other thing to check is the frequency you are using, 5ghz is ideal.

I had to go even further and change the 5ghz channels that routers usually use, as those channel are congested in my area.
 

Polygonal_Sprite

Gold Member
Is your ps5 connected via ethernet?

If so the other thing to check is the frequency you are using, 5ghz is ideal.

I had to go even further and change the 5ghz channels that routers usually use, as those channel are congested in my area.
Yeah Ethernet. I'll look into the 5ghz settings. Thanks for the actual advice!

Cloud games on the Switch run better using that router so something is certainly off lol.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
I'm glad you're here to stand up for the poor billionaire company Sony. Thank God!

I'm not standing up for them at all. In fact I don't think they should have released a product that requires consumers to know anything about networking, but I'm also not going to stand here and have you spout off at the mouth when I can tell you don't know what you're talking about.

The PS Portal is inherently a flawed product because at ITS best it requires a knowledgeable consumer and a proper/involved setup. That's a recipe for disaster, but that's also why they're not looking to sell 10s of millions of these things.

I can tell you my network is 1000x better than yours and I'm still not buying a PS Portal.
 

Loxus

Member
Surprised this thread is so quite.

Anyway, Kepler says the PS5 Pro is RDNA 3.5 with RDNA4 RT/WMMA/Data Prefetcher.


I've gathered up most of the info (both old and new) known so far based on this in one post without using any info from the PS5 Pro leaked document. Here, we can get I good idea what the PS5 Pro is shaping up to be, which seems to be a much better upgrade vs. the PS4 Pro.


RDNA3.5


AMD RDNA 3.5’s LLVM Changes

Scalar Floating Point Instructions

AMD’s GPUs have used a scalar unit to offload operations from the vector ALUs since the original GCN architecture launched in 2011. Scalar operations are typically used for addressing, control flow, and loading constants. AMD therefore only had an integer ALU in their scalar unit. RDNA 3.5 changes this by adding floating point operations to the scalar unit.
50We1Mv.png



RDNA4 RT

dl5oGMT.png


Leaker reveals new AMD RDNA4 Ray Tracing features, expected in upcoming PlayStation 5 Pro
sTDPGzR.jpeg



RDNA4 WMMA
Examining AMD’s RDNA 4 Changes in LLVM

Better Tensors

AI hype is real these days. Machine learning involves a lot of matrix multiplies, and people have found that inference can be done with lower precision data types while maintaining acceptable accuracy. GPUs have jumped on the hype train with specialized matrix multiplication instructions. RDNA 3’s WMMA (Wave Matrix Multiply Accumulate) use a matrix stored in registers across a wave, much like Nvidia’s equivalent instructions.

RDNA 4 carries these instructions forward with improvements to efficiency, and adds instructions to support 8-bit floating point formats.

Sparsity

RDNA 4 introduces new SWMMAC (Sparse Wave Matrix Multiply Accumulate) instructions to take advantage of sparsity.


RDNA4 Data Prefetcher
Examining AMD’s RDNA 4 Changes in LLVM

Software Prefetch

GPU programs typically enjoy high instruction cache hitrate because they tend to have a smaller code footprint than CPU programs. However, GPU programs suffer more from instruction cache warmup time because they tend to execute for very short durations. RDNA 3 mitigates this by optionally prefetching up to 64x 128-byte cachelines starting from a kernel’s entry point. RDNA 4 increases the possible initial prefetch distance to 256 x 128 bytes. Thus code size covered by the initial prefetch goes from 8 KB to 32 KB.

As far as I know, prefetching only applies to the instruction side. There’s no data-side prefetcher, so RDNA 3 SIMDs rely purely on thread and instruction level parallelism to hide memory latency.

RDNA 4 adds new instructions that let software more flexibly direct prefetches, rather than just going in a straight line. For example, s_prefetch_inst could point instruction prefetch to the target of a probably taken branch. If my interpretation is correct, RDNA 4 could be better at handling large shader programs, with instruction prefetch used to reduce the impact of instruction cache misses.

On the data side, RDNA 4 appears to introduce software prefetch instructions as well.



RDNA3.5 die shot. (Strix Point)

POknmXX.jpeg

2UVhL7R.jpeg

GPU setup:
1 Shader Engine
2 Shader Arrays
4 WGP per Shader Array
8 WGP / 16 CUs total
4 RB+ / 32 ROPs

NPU for reference.
hgl9gUZ.png



RDNA3 CU details for reference.
MmptYth.jpeg



Microbenchmarking AMD’s RDNA 3 Graphics Architecture
To scale compute throughput beyond just adding more WGPs, AMD implemented dual issue capability for a subset of common instructions.

WGP Compute Characteristics

Compared to RDNA 2, RDNA 3 obviously has a large advantage in compute throughput. After all, it has a higher WGP count. But potential increases in compute throughput go beyond that, because RDNA 3’s SIMDs gain a limited dual issue capability. Certain common operations can be packaged into a single VOPD (vector operation, dual) instruction in wave32 mode. In wave64 mode, the SIMD will naturally try to start executing a 64-wide wavefront over a single cycle, provided the instruction can be dual issued.
ExVxHfK.png

FWgCTQc.jpeg


Looking at the RDNA3 ISA documentation, there is only one VOPD instruction that can dual issue packed FP16 instructions along with another that can work with packed BF16 numbers.

These are the 2 VOPD instructions that can use packed math.
This means that the headline 123TF FP16 number will only be seen in very limited scenarios, mainly in AI and ML workloads, although gaming has started to use FP16 more often.
ErGPKv4.png

Q0vkO6e.jpeg
 

welshrat

Member
Not really ps5 pro thread worthy however I use my steam deck for remote play and I can honestly say that the experience is nothing but perfect. I have a 5ghz wifi router along with an access point so that hard to reach places in my house also get good 5ghz wifi and it runs perfectly at 60fps. I don't have the portal as no need but I can only imagine that would run the same.

I can only assume those that are having issues have a bad network setup.
 
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Mr Moose

Member




I believe Gravity Rush utilized an unnamed, in-house Japan Studio engine. Regarding FromSoftware, their only Unreal Engine game was Déraciné for PSVR, as all their other modern titles including the Souls series make use of an unnamed propietary engine.

Mugen_Souls_Boxart.jpg

370
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
THESE? No, that’s not what I said. More than what we got? Yes. The PS5 was nowhere near PC at launch, which is very rare for a new console (although the days where consoles exceed PCs for a short while might be gone). To the point where the difference between PS4 and PS5 games has not been astronomical.

Couple that with cross-gen, there really has been no pressing reason to rush and buy a PS5 if you already owned a PS4 or PS4 Pro. If you really want top of the line, you buy the games on Steam anyway.
Might be gone? Those days haven't existed since the PS3. The Xbox 360's GPU compared favorably to top PC GPUs for a short while but once the 8800 GTX was out, it wasn't close and the PS3 came out right around the same time. If you consider RAM, CPU, and storage, then the gap further widens.

The PS5 was also quite good for its price at the time and is still a decent machine even today. I can guarantee you without a doubt that the PS6 will not be close to the top PCs in 2028 and that's fine. That's not the purpose of a console.
 
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onQ123

Member
Surprised this thread is so quite.

Anyway, Kepler says the PS5 Pro is RDNA 3.5 with RDNA4 RT/WMMA/Data Prefetcher.


I've gathered up most of the info (both old and new) known so far based on this in one post without using any info from the PS5 Pro leaked document. Here, we can get I good idea what the PS5 Pro is shaping up to be, which seems to be a much better upgrade vs. the PS4 Pro.


RDNA3.5


AMD RDNA 3.5’s LLVM Changes

Scalar Floating Point Instructions

AMD’s GPUs have used a scalar unit to offload operations from the vector ALUs since the original GCN architecture launched in 2011. Scalar operations are typically used for addressing, control flow, and loading constants. AMD therefore only had an integer ALU in their scalar unit. RDNA 3.5 changes this by adding floating point operations to the scalar unit.
50We1Mv.png



RDNA4 RT

dl5oGMT.png


Leaker reveals new AMD RDNA4 Ray Tracing features, expected in upcoming PlayStation 5 Pro
sTDPGzR.jpeg



RDNA4 WMMA
Examining AMD’s RDNA 4 Changes in LLVM

Better Tensors

AI hype is real these days. Machine learning involves a lot of matrix multiplies, and people have found that inference can be done with lower precision data types while maintaining acceptable accuracy. GPUs have jumped on the hype train with specialized matrix multiplication instructions. RDNA 3’s WMMA (Wave Matrix Multiply Accumulate) use a matrix stored in registers across a wave, much like Nvidia’s equivalent instructions.

RDNA 4 carries these instructions forward with improvements to efficiency, and adds instructions to support 8-bit floating point formats.

Sparsity

RDNA 4 introduces new SWMMAC (Sparse Wave Matrix Multiply Accumulate) instructions to take advantage of sparsity.


RDNA4 Data Prefetcher
Examining AMD’s RDNA 4 Changes in LLVM

Software Prefetch

GPU programs typically enjoy high instruction cache hitrate because they tend to have a smaller code footprint than CPU programs. However, GPU programs suffer more from instruction cache warmup time because they tend to execute for very short durations. RDNA 3 mitigates this by optionally prefetching up to 64x 128-byte cachelines starting from a kernel’s entry point. RDNA 4 increases the possible initial prefetch distance to 256 x 128 bytes. Thus code size covered by the initial prefetch goes from 8 KB to 32 KB.

As far as I know, prefetching only applies to the instruction side. There’s no data-side prefetcher, so RDNA 3 SIMDs rely purely on thread and instruction level parallelism to hide memory latency.

RDNA 4 adds new instructions that let software more flexibly direct prefetches, rather than just going in a straight line. For example, s_prefetch_inst could point instruction prefetch to the target of a probably taken branch. If my interpretation is correct, RDNA 4 could be better at handling large shader programs, with instruction prefetch used to reduce the impact of instruction cache misses.

On the data side, RDNA 4 appears to introduce software prefetch instructions as well.



RDNA3.5 die shot. (Strix Point)

POknmXX.jpeg

2UVhL7R.jpeg

GPU setup:
1 Shader Engine
2 Shader Arrays
4 WGP per Shader Array
8 WGP / 16 CUs total
4 RB+ / 32 ROPs

NPU for reference.
hgl9gUZ.png



RDNA3 CU details for reference.
MmptYth.jpeg



Microbenchmarking AMD’s RDNA 3 Graphics Architecture
To scale compute throughput beyond just adding more WGPs, AMD implemented dual issue capability for a subset of common instructions.

WGP Compute Characteristics

Compared to RDNA 2, RDNA 3 obviously has a large advantage in compute throughput. After all, it has a higher WGP count. But potential increases in compute throughput go beyond that, because RDNA 3’s SIMDs gain a limited dual issue capability. Certain common operations can be packaged into a single VOPD (vector operation, dual) instruction in wave32 mode. In wave64 mode, the SIMD will naturally try to start executing a 64-wide wavefront over a single cycle, provided the instruction can be dual issued.
ExVxHfK.png

FWgCTQc.jpeg


Looking at the RDNA3 ISA documentation, there is only one VOPD instruction that can dual issue packed FP16 instructions along with another that can work with packed BF16 numbers.

These are the 2 VOPD instructions that can use packed math.
This means that the headline 123TF FP16 number will only be seen in very limited scenarios, mainly in AI and ML workloads, although gaming has started to use FP16 more often.
ErGPKv4.png

Q0vkO6e.jpeg

If this was a new generation Compute Rendering would be going into beast mode right now . Dreams 2 graphics would be amazing
 

UltimaKilo

Gold Member
Might be gone? Those days haven't existed since the PS3. The Xbox 360's GPU compared favorably to top PC GPUs for a short while but once the 8800 GTX was out, it wasn't close and the PS3 came out right around the same time. If you consider RAM, CPU, and storage, then the gap further widens.

The PS5 was also quite good for its price at the time and is still a decent machine even today. I can guarantee you without a doubt that the PS6 will not be close to the top PCs in 2028 and that's fine. That's not the purpose of a console.

I grant you that you’re very likely correct in your assumption. The solution to the gap issue for Sony has been the “pro” machines, or mid-cycle refreshes, that are more expensive and give Sony bigger margin on sales.

What we could see into the future is even more frequent console updates. Could we see life-cycle shortened to 6 years, or “Ultra” machines? Possibly (former seems more plausible). At some point in the next 10 years, laptops and tablets will be closing the gap with dedicated consoles far quicker than they are now, particularly with all the new fab processes that are rumored to change the semi space forever by the end of the decade which will see a monumental leap in both power and efficiency.

It’s why it is very possible that the next generation could be the last for dedicated hardware, at least as we now know it.
 

sendit

Member
3 cross gen games that can be played on PS4

Could you play The Order or Bloodborne on PS3? No

When i buy a new console, i want games that take advantage of the new hardware, not cross-gen stuff
You aren’t going to get that from the gate in abundance anymore. Cost to make triple A games have exponentially increased. I feel like you’re living in an alternate reality. Expect to see more cross gen games when the PS6 lands.

Eventually, expect the term next gen to go away completely.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'm not standing up for them at all. In fact I don't think they should have released a product that requires consumers to know anything about networking, but I'm also not going to stand here and have you spout off at the mouth when I can tell you don't know what you're talking about.

The PS Portal is inherently a flawed product because at ITS best it requires a knowledgeable consumer and a proper/involved setup. That's a recipe for disaster, but that's also why they're not looking to sell 10s of millions of these things.

I can tell you my network is 1000x better than yours and I'm still not buying a PS Portal.

The PS Portal is a PERFECT product for the type of person it's designed for. Everything doesn't need to be for everybody. Some of yall need to getaway from the thinking that every product needs to be for you or it's flawed.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sounds like he's got a guy in the industry who says it might be coming out in 2025 and then continues to speculate as to why that might be the case.

Tom Henderson has already doubled down on his claim that it's releasing in November based on alleged official documentation he has seen.
Neither of them is HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 … he says to hold our butts and be ready… sooooo…
 

Zathalus

Member
The PS Portal is a PERFECT product for the type of person it's designed for. Everything doesn't need to be for everybody. Some of yall need to getaway from the thinking that every product needs to be for you or it's flawed.
But it is flawed, on quite a number of levels.
That doesn’t mean it’s a bad product though.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member

Just personal opinions you don't need that killer game to bundle with it

You just start out by saying this is the best console experience you can have for every game and the enthusiasts will buy it then tease games like Ghost of Tsushima 2, Death Stranding 2 and Wolverine as this is the console you will want

Heck show your Black Ops 6 PSSR patch and show the COD crowd close to native 4k 120fps for multiplayer
 

Nonehxc

Member
He will return in 2026 to preach of the great NPU powers
More like 'My Firestick S überhardware MS server blades can do Frame Reconstruction AND VRR in 1080p for a negligible 1000ms input lag, what can your RDNA -3.500 PS5 Pro do?' 😏

It's gonna be super retarded and mad when the zealots are paid and served the marketing materials to SnakeOil 🐍 us some Rokus, Apple TVs, Firesticks and Amazon Cubes since that will be the thing to sell, Rokus and Firesticks on which to sub to GamePass Stream. 😆
 
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Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
The PS Portal is a PERFECT product for the type of person it's designed for. Everything doesn't need to be for everybody. Some of yall need to getaway from the thinking that every product needs to be for you or it's flawed.

I didn't say it had to be for me or it is flawed.

But it is certainly flawed for a mass market audience and to say otherwise is to suggest that no product is flawed at all as long as someone buys it.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
My best guess would be a Sony announcement in ~ mid-August for a early September reveal ala PS4 Pro or more solid info from Tom Henderson or other high profile journalist(s) i.e DF in the next week.
 
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