PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
- Thread starter jm89
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vivftp
Member
It's like a bunch of wrong, coupled with a whole lotta wrong, with a wrong cherry on top, all in one post.
Quite the feat
MisterXDTV
Member
So they should have released a console in 2020 with technology from 2024....
Cerny should buy a DeLorean!!!
Graphics scaling is the one thing that never precluded down ports.
Eg:
360 did Rise of Tomb Raider even though it was significantly more complex on X1 than TR2013.
PSP ran DOAX even though - well it was an XBox 360 game.
Spectrum 48K ran Amiga Port of Lotus Esprit Turbo challenge.
Yea ok I just wanted to insert that last one.
But really are we pretending now that ports are 'impossible' if they lose a polygon/pixel or two in transition? That would disqualify the last 40 years of ports into every direction. Hell even many of the 'HD remasters' were downgraded graphically - does that mean SilentHill2 on XB360 was impossible too?
BB looked like a high-end PS3 game when it came out - yes it did stuff with blood and cloth that was a bit out there for a PS3 era title, and 1080p would obviously be off the table - but that's purely cosmetic trade-offs in the end. The game didn't do anything to the formula that would be seriously limiting the port backwards. Elden Ring... that'd be a different story.
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this i am so over it
Imtjnotu
Member
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
Totally agree about the whole sentiment, although in respect of the PS3, I thought it was generally considered the PPU's high clock and being a scaled down IBM AS400 core was considered more powerful than the Jaguar in 2way single core workloads and that Ubisoft had a slide comparing just four(?) SPUs versus the whole of the Xenon and all of the Jaguar to do cloth simulation and the PS3's SPUs were multiple factors more powerful (like a x10) IIRC, so doing BB on PS3 that far into the gen should have been MGSV type comparison IMO. We saw it with the port of Journey too, DF even did a cross gen comparison and actually highlighted areas in which the PS4 game had to be re-engineered and still fell short in some fx because the PS4 GPU couldn't do all the work of the PS3 SPUs and still move up a resolution. Even the water puzzle section towards the end of the Last guardian was a bit iffy on the PS4 for performance as I recall and my first thought was this was a section that was clearly playing to the strengths of the Cell BE's SPUs.
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48086
Member
I'm curious if this will throw off console's releasing next to each other. When do we think the next xbox will drop (if there's one)? I'm thinking sooner than later. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's 2026. That would give the Series s/x a six year time frame. Of course, IF ms gets their crap together and actually starts releasing good games they might be able to hold out until 2027.
My question is, if a new xbox drops in 2026 will Sony try to have something ready by then too? Giving the pro only two years before a new system comes out seems rough.
My question is, if a new xbox drops in 2026 will Sony try to have something ready by then too? Giving the pro only two years before a new system comes out seems rough.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
They should have released a console, in 2020, that was not underwhelming... in 2020...So they should have released a console in 2020 with technology from 2024....
Cerny should buy a DeLorean!!!
Yea the CPU comparisons are a bit more nuanced in that gen transition (there are workloads where Jaguars were absolutely faster than PPEs - but indeed SIMD workloads are a different story). I guess I was also mentally adjusting for this being From software - they were pretty conservative in utilising PS3.
Likewise cloth physics and all that in BB could have been GPU driven (which would put a lot of distance between two consoles) but again I think that was just vanilla Havok instead.
I don't remember how MGS5 compared btw, was there anything unique to previous gen versions vs PS4/X1? Speaking of cell - it's a shame PS3 sw just didn't have the legs to last a year or so longer - had TAA been implemented on Cell(and really, as a 1:1 MLAA replacement it wouldn't even run much differently) we'd have seen an interesting spin on PS3 era visuals that were notoriously bad AA wise until then...
Journey's one of those HD remasters that lost something in transition yea. Not unlike Jak on the PS3, or ZOE2 on XBox360 - but admittedly I'm not sure if I'd put blame squarely on hw. Some things just wouldn't 'port over' directly so they got redone (and usually in a downgraded fashion). Port timelines are not kind to accurate translation of anything non-obvious.
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Interesting? Can link the video or do you know the name of it?
Imtjnotu
Member
HeisenbergFX4
says the next Xbox is around the 2026 and isn't a pro version but the next generation. So I'm guessing PS6 in 2027-28.
Perrott
Member
PS6 is 2028 and I doubt whatever a dying console brand decides to come up with earlier would alter Sony's plan.
If anything, from Xbox's point of view, introducing an all-new hardware ecosystem after the failure of the Series consoles and trying to compete against a 100 million PS5 install base and years of them operating as a multiplatform publisher by that point... its going to be suicide for them. Like, what major publisher is going to want to bother making bespoke next-gen versions of their games for the next Xbox when that would only translate to a couple houndred thousand game sales at most?
So please explain to us how they could do that...with tech from the last few years.
Remember these consoles werent created in 2020, thats just when they launched. Here's a hint: the fact that both the PS5 and Series consoles are custom RDNA 2 should not be dismissed.
Are you saying the PS5 should have been delayed until 2024?
asdasdasdbb
Member
2028 is still too early. Unless it's going to be mega expensive, it's just not going to be a big enough jump to get people interested.
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
I'm pretty sure all the Souls games used PlayStation London Studio's PhyreEngine, so assuming that is true, it should be fully capable for FromSoftware to do cloth simulation from BB PS4 backporting to PS3 Cell and get good performance., although being less of a classic UE/Unity finished middleware engine and more of a middleware engine to build on, that might be a totally off target assumption by me.
MGS5 at a glance was pretty much indistinguishable in unlabelled still shots whether looking at PS3 or PS4 screenshots, where the difference was most visible by frame-rate whyen playing, because the linear space lighting tech in which they captured the lighting separately, made the photorealistic reconstruction look so great resolution wasn't such a big bump IIRC.
I remember the opening of Ground Zero and being amazed by the image composition, and only when I looked through the scope and got a 2D flat feeling when panning did I start to think it was maybe all made up from a cascade grid of cubemaps, which then IMO explained how it looked like it was defying the PS3 hardware to get close to the PS4 with some really great visuals.
Physiognomonics
Member
I can tell you here. I played MGS5 on both PS3 and PS4 and there was a generational gap between those 2: 720p ~20-25fps vs 1080p locked 60fps. The whole experience (including gameplay) was much better on PS4.
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PUNKem733
Member
PS6 is not coming until 2028
Perrott
Member
2020 to 2028 would be the longest gap between console generations alongside with the X360 to XOne gap of also eight years.
In what world would that be "too early"? Just think of the many innovations that would've happened between the launch of the PS5 and then: Infinity Cache, 3D V-Cache, frame generation, ray reconstruction, AMD would probably really get their shit together when it comes to hardware RT by then, it is rumored that Nvidia would be debuting ML texture upsampling with the 5000 series, and PSSR would probably be in its second to third iteration by then.
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bitbydeath
Member
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
I would maybe look at the PS2 generation for comparison and had the 360 not been in the market and a PS2 Pro had been released, PlayStation would have got at least an extra two years out of that generation with the size of dominance the console had with users way beyond the core demographic gamer IMO, and anecdotally when I see so many of my old PS1, PS2, PS3 and even the PS4 friends failing to get in on PS5 - because of price and other life commitments - I think PS5 at much lower prices has at least a 2029 - if not a 2030 - in it if a Pro does well with the core and devs finally absorb the COVID disruption and get PS5 designed games hitting the mark.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I don't think the next Xbox will attempt to go head to head with the PS6
I am quite certain the next lineup of Xbox "consoles" will look very different and the price will reflect that in at least one of them
Perrott
Member
All the more reason for Sony to just do their own thing and not rush the release of the PS6 before its fully ready.
I actually like the idea of all three console manufacturers operating on different hardware release timelines, as Nintendo has been doing for a while now.
Imtjnotu
Member
im thinking steam box style where letting other OEM's make the boxes
SonGoku
Member
I dont think its fair to make a comparison like this on its own without taking into account the whole game, genre and developer technical expertise
Games on PS3 can look and perform different depending on developer expertise, game engine and scope of the game (linear, open world, small corridors, top down, racing sim etc).
The question is could FS make BB on PS3 that looks the mostly same with worse IQ and performance. Switch is a recent example that any port is possible but with severe cutbacks that makes it clear the game was developed for a hardware class and/or generation above it
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asdasdasdbb
Member
TSMC's future nodes look brutal on costs. That's the main reason really.
I'm not sure how high on pricing you can go on a console... but given how this gen has gone, I think you are going to need the next gen to really wow people to get interest. Getting a console that can do that and not be crazy expensive in 2028 looks tough.
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SonGoku
Member
I agree specially considering there havent been any price cuts yet
A PS5Pro and $299 PS5 slim could easily give an additional 5 years of juice. Specially considering long development cycles and how few current gen only AAA games release, let a alone a proper "next gen" showcase
Perrott
Member
A $599.99 digital PS6 in 2028 sounds about right, with the disc drive add-on being sold separately from the start.
Audiophile
Member
Probs entering manufacture right about now. Time for Foxconn to get leaky!
TheRedRiders
Member
48086
Member
My guess is that they're going to flood the market.
High end expensive machine
PS6 comparable machine
PS5 Pro comparable machine at a cheaper price
Handheld
Cloud dongle for GP
Lots of first party titles on PS/Nintendo
Daneel Elijah
Member
If they could do the same with games it would be perfect.
TheRedRiders
Member
His lack of reply or acknowledgement only confirms this.
I kid of course, sorry to bait you out man
HeisenbergFX4
ChiefDada
Member
That would be uber expensive for Xbox, would bifurcate the market to ridiculous levels, and developers would be more compelled to skip development on Xbox than they are now.
I personally think they're done with traditional consoles and wont compete with PS6 but we'll see.
MisterXDTV
Member
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Investor9872
Member
It that the $1,000 Xbox system that you had alluded to yesterday that you would pay for it if it were out today?
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I'm not sure about the overall engine - but physics has been Havok for Souls IP since the beginning - so migrating that to a different tech stack would probably be a whole thing (Havok supported Cell to some extent but it wasn't exactly a poster child for great utilisation).
Ok yea I just looked at some side-by-sides, that's indeed way closer than I remember cross-gen from that era (resolution and some smaller details like local-light shadowcasters being the only really noticeable downgrades). Of course framerate isn't so great - but 25fps was kind of standard on 360PS3 games for at least half a decade by then so it's not like it was an outlier.
Listening to DF take on it is kind of funny though - especially reflecting how much praise Switch port downgrades received a few years later.
If you suggested that all a 'generational leap' in a console would yield was 2-3x fps + 2x resolution 20 year ago - you'd get laughed out of the room every time.
More importantly - the last 3 years of cross gens has basically been 2x framerate + 2-4x resolution so by that standard - all the criticism of current gen is unwarranted as it's delivering as well as the last one did.
But anyway - looking at the footage - I will repeat myself from previous post - if someone took the time to port TAA to some of those PS3 games it'd shock people just how well some of those titles can hold up visually (performance is another story).
Yea I don't disagree - which is what I mentioned above myself. But my point was that BB was still more a cross-gen title than not in terms of From just starting to work with PS4 and that factors in to a potential backport. It's pretty noticeable in how the game is presented too - right down to much worse IQ from the rest of PS4 era Souls games.
It's funny - as Sony did experiment with possible PS2 hw upgrades internally. Mainly around bigger GS (PS2 was originally meant to have 8MB eDram and all too) and higher clock speeds, but still.
I guess there was really no point though given how dominant the console was - it wasn't until end of 2007 that Wii really unseated it, and given original plans for PS3 called for a much earlier launch, there wouldn't have been a lot of runway had that panned out either.
Perrott
Member
That was debunked by one of the engineers behind the PhyreEngine a while ago, 2016 or so. Same with Gravity Rush, which was also wrongly speculated to have been powered by that engine.
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Trogdor1123
Member
It wasn't underwhelming though. People got wrapped up in the tflops but they turned out to be wrong. There loads of ways it exceed expectations then.
Some people wanted it to be a 3090 equivalent but anyone with a brain knew that wasn't possible, especially then.
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
I was thinking more a mid-gen PS2 Pro upgrade with the GS at a level to do PS2 graphics with more fillrate to take 480p30 -> 720p60 (with hdmi/component on the outputs as standard) with higher quality textures from more memory and an HDD as standard so FPS titles on PS2 Pro would have sat above OG Xbox and close enough to early 360 that the PS2 market share alone would have made PS2 Pro the core platform of choice for FPSes that the 360 successfully stole nearly 2years before the PS3 launched, and maintained a 50% share of that audience for the entire 360/PS3 gen, and was probably IMO the main reason why the PS2 gen had its legs cut short.
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
Don't suppose you could find the link for that? I would have always assumed GR was UE because it being de-badged through it being a Sony studio, but if Souls games are UE also, I'm surprised FromSoftware would have the de-badging of the engine via their publishing deals, which is why I assumed it was PhyreEngine originally
Yes I am not going to buy another one, bought them all since 360 and always sold them. I had the series x for 8 months and it only saw a few games so sold that on. Gamepass can stay on pc for me.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Oh my concern, at the time, even with the SSD, was that the GPU along with 16GB of RAM would not age well. The PS5 Pro seems to bump the Ram speed by a decent amount and free up an extra 1.2GB for developers!
The Pro could finally make the coveted 4K60 standard a reality. Add PSSR and the CPU bump, and the PS5 has the ability to really shake things up.
Unfortunately, it would benefit PSVR even more, but Sony seems to have killed those hopes.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
You expected and demanded these specs in 2020…for $499?
THESE? No, that's not what I said. More than what we got? Yes. The PS5 was nowhere near PC at launch, which is very rare for a new console (although the days where consoles exceed PCs for a short while might be gone). To the point where the difference between PS4 and PS5 games has not been astronomical.
Couple that with cross-gen, there really has been no pressing reason to rush and buy a PS5 if you already owned a PS4 or PS4 Pro. If you really want top of the line, you buy the games on Steam anyway.
Perrott
Member
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I believe Gravity Rush utilized an unnamed, in-house Japan Studio engine. Regarding FromSoftware, their only Unreal Engine game was Déraciné for PSVR, as all their other modern titles including the Souls series make use of an unnamed propietary engine.