Wasn't Gundham at the airport when you first met him though?
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[SPOILERS] Dangan Ronpa 2 Spoiler Thread | Aloha, Despair!
- Thread starter Nachos
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Wasn't Gundham at the airport when you first met him though?
dakkumauji
Member
I mean where he generally hangs out during free time
Another place I remember not doing anything was the drug store on island 2. Hell, all that was important was saying that's where Piko drugged Hiyoko and they could have just said she got it at the supermarket and it probably would have been the same.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Most places in Danganronpa 2 actually served no purpose, in fact, everything in the 4th island except the Castle (which isn't even visited on that Chapter) and Usami's House loses relevance after 1 scene in there.
dakkumauji
Member
That's actually an interesting point since compare to the first game most places that weren't classrooms ended up being at least important to a murder. In fact, places that weren't introduced in that chapter ends up being used unlike in this game where most of the time, a murder and all of its relevant locations stays on that island expect for a visit to the victim's room.
I mean where he generally hangs out during free time
Another place I remember not doing anything was the drug store on island 2. Hell, all that was important was saying that's where Piko drugged Hiyoko and they could have just said she got it at the supermarket and it probably would have been the same.
Which is odd. Doesn't Gundham say he hates the Ranch because he hates domestic animals raised for slaughter?
I noticed that too. The attractions were only relevant briefly.
In DR1, I can't recall a place that wasn't placed there for something pertaining to the case or being a major story location like the Gym. I guess there's that bloody classroom but it's actually important in DR2.
I assumed it was trap doors or something like that. You can explain everything in Danganronpa with technology, considering how technologically advanced Monokuma is.
How do you figure it's important in DR2?
Isn't that the room the Killing Game took place in? Where Izuru killed all those people?
In the first game, all you know is it's related to the Tragedy and that's it. In DR2, you learn what actually happened in there and why it looks that way.
Wouldn't that make it important to DR zero? I haven't read most of it yet but isn't that the story over there?
Well yes. But I mean all you know in DR1 is "something bad happened here".
In DR2, you learn "Oh this is where Junko made Izuru fall to despair and kill all those people." It's also where you learn who Izuru is, why he is important, and why those deaths were important. It adds meaning to what was previously just a vague creepy thing.
I don't think it was said that Izuru killed everyone there.
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Anyone like how Nagito doesn't like the Gag Ball or The Girl With The Bear Hairclips? Nagito had tape on his mouth when he died so it is kinda like a gag ball. And the Junko painting is self-explanatory.
He also doesn't like the Spectre Ring, though I don't know what it signifies.
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Anyone like how Nagito doesn't like the Gag Ball or The Girl With The Bear Hairclips? Nagito had tape on his mouth when he died so it is kinda like a gag ball. And the Junko painting is self-explanatory.
He also doesn't like the Spectre Ring, though I don't know what it signifies.
I see what you are saying but I'd argue DR2 only made it slightly less vague. In 1, they told you students died there and it started the calamity. In 2, they put a face to who did it. Details are still completely minimal. Unless I'm forgetting how it was described.
Really? I could've sworn I heard somewhere that that's where the prototype Killing Game took place with all the student council members and Izuru.
Right. But one of those details is that it was what kicked off the whole Tragedy and involved Izuru who is the very character you are playing as and the reason for the Junko AI being there. That room is what threw him into despair and kickstarted all that. That's all I'm saying.
In the first it was just a place where murders happened. In 2, it's the place where everything got started. Just a little more significant than some creepy room.
You're right, but it isn't clear if he's personally responsible for all of those deaths. The only thing we know for sure is that he was just trapped in the first mutual killing game and survived.
Crash Station
Member
DR Zero does kind of confirm
There are other killers in the game beside Izuru. For all we know, he may not have killed anyone in that.
Ohhh yeah. I worded it wrong. I meant it was the room with the Killing Game in which Izuru was a participant.
Pretty sure it just says it's related to the most despairing event of all time or whatever and never gets into specifics.
DR Zero spoilers:
It is what caused reserve course students to protest and it just became a snowball effect from there.
Yeah that I knew, I was more wondering if the info I mentioned was said specifically in DR1.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
Ohh, pretty cool, I could believe any of them. Yeah now I think it's more possible for Teruteru to become an Ultimate Despair due to her momma dying.
Also, guys, fill me in with any easter egg, clever foreshadowing or developer notes. I remember that in DR Leon and Maizono were the first ones to be killed because they were the first characters created and they got tired of seeing them. And that DR was suppose to be another type of game or something like that. And the developers explained all the other's characters' possible executions. Is there something like that in DR2? Is there any reason for all those Naegi and Nagito connections?
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
the DR Earth must be really dumb to let a high school revolt snowball into the end of society
dakkumauji
Member
The DR world is basically fueled by hope and despair.
I still say it was more than that. As a member of Fenrir, Mukuro had ties to some terrorists who could probably both cause some anarchy and infiltrate governments to try to bring them down from the inside.
Junko was a famous fashionista so she probably had tons of rich powerful people she could manipulate. Money talks and having friends in high places could help her bring down a lot of major things. Some through inside work, some through lobbying fucking things over.
They probably helped inflame problems that were already happening in places ready to riot. They could have incited riots in smaller nations and put some people with a direct line back to Fenrir or Junko in power. Through influencing very powerful people they could drive nations like the US, Japan, the UK etc into the ground and basically destroy things from the inside while the mass spread of rioting and pointless wars take it out from the outside.
Dude was a killer in both the school game and outside of it. Committed premeditated murder. Asshole.
Truthfact time: everyone in this game is an asshole or AI. They're all weak minded killers that fell to despair. All of them got fucked up by Junko and it would have happened again if it wasn't for the DR1 cast intervening. 5-6 people managed to go up against Junko without breaking down and becoming deranged lunatics (uh, not sure if Toko counts) so clearly it's not impossible. Makes it very hard for me to sympathize or like this cast (not saying you can't or shouldn't). Basically the only three human people in this game that weren't prone to being batshit:
And Byakuya was already as asshole to begin with.
Falling to despair doesn't make them non-human. It makes them very human. They have realistic weaknesses unlike generic protagonist Makoto who is plain in every single way.
A lot of them were also carrying heavier baggage than those six. Hajime, Mikan, Akane, Peko, Nekomaru, Gundham, and Ultimate Imposter all come to mind.
And there's also the fact that they DID overcome despair. Not the first time, no. It's fair to say the Ultimate Despairs on the outside are monstrous assholes. There's no excuse for what they've done yes. But the characters we go through the game with aren't really them in a way. They are essentially what the characters were like before that happened and then given a chance to show they can overcome despair. And they did. Hajime and the survivors overcame the despair against Junko and that version of themselves (the version that fought despair rather than succumbed) is now alive in their real world selves as well.
dakkumauji
Member
Fun fact, the DR1 cast that went up against Junko did break down and almost fell to despair at the end of that class trial. Everyone expect Makoto.
If it wasn't for Makoto becoming the Ultimate Hope (and shooting truth bullets into everyone), they could have possibly become the Ultimate Despairs like the DR2 cast. If anything, they were lucky they had someone who never stopped hoping unlike the DR2 cast.
Everyday people don't break and start killing others or mutilating themselves. Six (er, five) of the DR1 cast managed to not kill people when directly influenced by Junko. Having weaknesses doesn't make you batshit crazy. Fuyuhiko and Peko were trained killers, Nagito may or may not be mentally ill but the rest of the cast have human problems that the rest of us share generally without murdering.
They were given a chance the first time and failed.
The only reason they succeeded (and most of them ended up killing or dead anyway) was because they had the Future Foundation AI aiding them - would've all died without Chiaki - and the DR1 cast at the end. On their "own" (they knew each other and had family on the outside, so they weren't exactly alone) they're all especially prone to breaking down and becoming monsters. It's all well and good to say, "hey I don't kill people as long as there's someone around actively stopping me from doing it!". These aren't good people.
DR1 cast weren't much better, as I pointed out a bunch of them were driven to killing. But at least a few of them managed to avoid indulging in murder, self-mutilation, necrophilia, etc.
Like, I'm very fond of Nagito. Interesting character. But he's not a good person. Nobody in this game is.
I think you're missing the point entirely.
The reason the DR2 characters fell into Despair is because... well, it was kind of the point of Ultimate Despair that Junko targeted people who were especially susceptible to her brand of manipulation. The majority of the DR2 characters were emotionally vulnerable and a common theme for them is abuse (mental, physical, sometimes sexual). Sure, ultimately the DR2 characters made very bad decisions, but it was due to their formative experiences of abuse. Don't forget that.
The reason the DR2 characters fell into Despair is because... well, it was kind of the point of Ultimate Despair that Junko targeted people who were especially susceptible to her brand of manipulation. The majority of the DR2 characters were emotionally vulnerable and a common theme for them is abuse (mental, physical, sometimes sexual). Sure, ultimately the DR2 characters made very bad decisions, but it was due to their formative experiences of abuse. Don't forget that.
dakkumauji
Member
That is because the DR2 cast fell into despair. The DR1 cast didn't.
The DR1 cast could have done the very same thing if they lost at that final class trial and Junko won.
Crash Station
Member
It's probably important to note we don't know what drove the DR2 cast to despair. The thing with Fuyuhiko's sister could have barely contributed for all we know.
Also important to take into account the fact conditioning is a very real thing, which seemed to be one of the cornerstones of the Tragedy advancing as far as it did. People were legit brainwashed to not see the suffering of others as the terrifying things they are. The Ultimate Despair just took that one step farther.
We obviously can't say for certain, but it seems that the DR1 cast did not go through the same shit the DR2 cast did. Maybe even the nicest ones of the first game would have done the same stuff the DR2 cast did if Junko messed with them to the same extent. At this point, the only one that's supposedly immune to that shit is Makoto, and even that I don't completely buy.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
She is an abrasive little shit at every turn. There's not much to like.
dakkumauji
Member
At least her death was as uneventful as it should have been.
Killed only cause she was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Wasn't even part of some masterplan.
To think the horror that originally she wasn't going to die in Chapter 3.
Both (memory wiped) casts were subjected to the same kind of Despair and it resulted in similar killings (i'd even argue that the DR2 cast had stronger unity, since they were pretty much forced into killing each other), so one can only imagine what Junko did to the DR2 cast to turn convert them into the Ultimate Despair.
Junko is basically the devil.
Their emotional vulnerabilities aren't exactly riveting stuff. As far as I can see there aren't a lot of rape victims in the cast. Mostly they just suffer from the sort of things that ordinary people do. I could buy arguments for a few of them, but generally it's pretty tame stuff. What was Ibuki's issues, that people didn't like her new style of music? Gundham has social anxiety? That isn't the sort of thing people murder over. If worse shit went down, we aren't given the specifics.
They could all be suffering from severe mental illness, but the game doesn't tell us that - sans Nagito - so we're left having to guess. There's no justifying their actions, and I don't think the game even wants us too. It's very clear they're horrible people.
But they didn't.
Right, because they have any reason to lie about it.
You just need all the hope fragments as a prerequisite, I believe.Can you still get the endings in Island Mode if you miss some of Usami's assignments? The last few one are tough when you're low levels.
And instead they were going to take away Fuyuhiko who just started to be a really cool character with room for growth? That would have been some major bullshit.
A lot of people have no reason to lie about anything other than finding it funny or clever. Or, if you want a reason, maybe someone somewhere has some huge twist revelation for DR3 that ties directly into all of these "coincidences" between the two.
I call bullshit and that's fair because a coincidence that large would be ridiculous.
dakkumauji
Member
Thank goodness they didn't commit this sin twice.
Or it could be in AE, Nagito's in that too. Only the people who've played will know (and won't spoil it here!).
The massive number of coincidences with no payoff was annoying. There's having characters act as parallels to each other through similarities... then there's this.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
That's exactly why I liked her. Such an [awesome] lil' asshole.
Did the developvers said this or are you just refering to she not being part of Mikan's plan at first?
Ok, let me ask you something. Did you think they were terrible people before any of the Despair reveal? Did you think most of them were decent enough people when you were playing through, say, Chapter 3?
I assume you mean Taka?
You mean the "Love-Love Level" that you raise from using Trip Tickets? Cause I got everyone's hope fragments on my first attempt and got zero endings.
dakkumauji
Member
The beta version of this game had Kuzuryuu dying in Chapter 3.
It seems that Spike Chunsoft enjoys the idea of giving someone character development in Chapter 2 and offing them in Chapter 3. Thankfully that was changed.
truly a fitting death for such a horrible, rotten character