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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]

B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
GentlemanCrow said:
I find it baffling that some say that Sith is better than Jedi. Jedi is the weakest of the OT, but it is still a well acted, visually engaging film with the best space battle and arguably the best duel in the OT. A duel rich in pathos, suspense and emotion. People cite pacing and Ewoks but I'd argue that the pacing of Sith is worse, The Obi/Grevious subplot is a dead end and is ultimately pointless.
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It's not all that well acted, no. In fact, it contains the worst scene in the entire OT, and two of the worst performances both Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford have ever turned in. Any emotion felt is due to Mark Hamill carrying the movie on his back, performance wise, opposite McDiarmid, who is eating whole scenes with no forgiveness and no fucks given.

It's also not all that visually engaging. The Death Star II battle is amazing to look at, and the duel at the end is also cool to look at, but otherwise, everything is pretty visually flat. Maybe the only Star Wars film that looks worse is Attack of the Clones, which is so flat as to have almost achieved one-dimensionality.

That last half hour of Jedi goes a long way, but it's just a half hour.

There's fun stuff in Jedi, definitely. But while Sith doesn't hit the highs Jedi does, it never dips as low as Jedi does, either. It's much more evened out, and overall, more interesting as a film. Jedi is a lot of boring and mediocre until you get to the part that actually matters - the part that was set up by Empire. When Jedi has to work on its own? It doesn't.
 
P

Peru

Member
Sith doesn't dip as low? Every scene with Anakin acting out of some desire of Lucas instead of a natural instinct of the character, going ballistic 'dark' in a second, feels only forced and more awkward than the love story in AOTC. It's the worst of the prequels because its pretentious ambition crashes more brutally than ever with the ineptitude of the writing. It has the worst opening of any Star Wars movie, a battle it's impossible to care about, with characters we thought were important disposed of quickly and characters (Grievous) we hate instantly kept on as filler.

Jedi has its obvious weaknesses but at all times the core, the feeling of something at play, keeps it afloat.
 
G

GentlemanCrow

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
It's not all that well acted, no. In fact, it contains the worst scene in the entire OT, and two of the worst performances both Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford have ever turned in. Any emotion felt is due to Mark Hamill carrying the movie on his back, performance wise, opposite McDiarmid, who is eating whole scenes with no forgiveness and no fucks given.

It's also not all that visually engaging. The Death Star II battle is amazing to look at, and the duel at the end is also cool to look at, but otherwise, everything is pretty visually flat. Maybe the only Star Wars film that looks worse is Attack of the Clones, which is so flat as to have almost achieved one-dimensionality.

That last half hour of Jedi goes a long way, but it's just a half hour.

There's fun stuff in Jedi, definitely. But while Sith doesn't hit the highs Jedi does, it never dips as low as Jedi does, either. It's much more evened out, and overall, more interesting as a film. Jedi is a lot of boring and mediocre until you get to the part that actually matters - the part that was set up by Empire. When Jedi has to work on its own? It doesn't.
Click to expand...

Hamill, Jones, Shaw and McDiamid all deliver amazing performances. Hamill as always hold everything together. Fisher and Ford are phoning it in but they do better than most of the cast of Sith by comparisons. I can only think of McDiamid doing anything close to actually acting in Sith. As for the film's flatness, the speeder chase is grand. Jabba's palace and barges are different and cool and offer up a rousing rescue/escape sequence. Feels so classic. Even the 'bland' locales offer something.

For me, Sith doesn't reach the highs of Jedi, it doesn't even scrape it's bottom.

On this, I fear we will never agree.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Its not just Fisher/Ford performances, its the whole characterization that got going on. Solo is now a fumbling, inconsequential comic relief idiot on par with C3PO who does nothing well and overreacts constantly. And I guess getting in a relationship was the worst thing to happen to Leia, cuz she's an entirely different person in the Ewok village. Lookin like a 70s lovechild, moping around through the trees, talking in vague platitudes, oh hold me Han, someone who loves you Han.

Clearly Lucas/Kasdan were focused on Luke and now Anakin Skywalker, and their arcs play out beautifully with the best scenes in the series(alongside the best setpieces of the series). But two of the Big 3 had to be sacrificed to do it?
 
T

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!

Member
CreepingFear said:
George Lucas has seen The Force Awakens and "really liked it".
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/george-lucas-attend-star-wars-845948
Be afraid! Darth Jar Jar confirmed!
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He told the Washington Post earlier this week that he hadn't seen the film and was better off having not been involved. “There is no such thing as working over someone’s shoulder,” he said. “You’re either the dictator or you’re not. And to do that would never work, so I said ‘I’m going to get divorced.’ . . . I knew that I couldn’t be involved. All I’d do is make them miserable. I’d make myself miserable. It would probably ruin a vision — J.J. [Abrams] has a vision, and it’s his vision.”
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Uh isn't that exactly what he did in ESB and ROTJ? I swear George Lucas just loves to make stuff up.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
Uh isn't that exactly what he did in ESB and ROTJ?
Click to expand...

Nope.

on ESB he did two drafts of the script, turned it over to Kasdan, called it good, and then sat back and waited for the picture to get delivered by Kershner. He didn't interfere creatively at all even when he did visit the set every now and again. He freaked out when it went way overbudget, but he acquiesced to the creative decisions made by Kershner/Kasdan.

On ROTJ he broke the story, shot some second unit, but otherwise waited for Marquand to turn in all the footage. Once he got the footage he took over post-production entirely, but he absolutely didn't stand over Marquand's shoulder during production and openly second-guess and override the man's decisions.
 
G

George Oscar Bluth II

Banned
There were four things I liked in RotS:

Obi-Wan.
Palpatine.
The opening space battle until the buzz droids arrive.
That Anakin & Padme Coruscant stare scene.

Here are the things I liked in RotJ:

Luke.
Palpatine.
Lando.
The Death Star II space battle.
All the stuff in the Emperor's throne room.
The speeder bike chase.

Also I dislike the bad stuff in RotS far more than I dislike the bad stuff in RotJ.
 
T

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
Nope.

on ESB he did two drafts of the script, turned it over to Kasdan, called it good, and then sat back and waited for the picture to get delivered by Kershner. He didn't interfere creatively at all even when he did visit the set every now and again. He freaked out when it went way overbudget, but he acquiesced to the creative decisions made by Kershner/Kasdan.

On ROTJ he broke the story, shot some second unit, but otherwise waited for Marquand to turn in all the footage. Once he got the footage he took over post-production entirely, but he absolutely didn't stand over Marquand's shoulder during production and openly second-guess and override the man's decisions.
Click to expand...

I always heard that he basically ghost directed 3. I guess the internet loves to exaggerate.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
I always heard that he basically ghost directed 3. I guess the internet loves to exaggerate.
Click to expand...

That exaggeration pre-dates the internet, actually.

Granted, him having 100% control of the post-production means he had a huge hand in how the movie plays. He literally shaped the thing exactly how he wanted it shaped. But the angles, the movement, the lighting, the shot selection, the performances - that was all Marquand's call.

The quote he gave in that CBS interview is more referring to the fact he doesn't actually have final say-so (like he did on Jedi, or the Prequels), so it'd be way more frustrating for him.

he's basically saying he doesn't want to occupy the same position Roddenberry did on the Star Trek movies. Sure, he was there... technically. But everyone's ignoring him, nothing he's suggesting is getting used, and he's just getting in the way and needs to be managed to stop finding himself underfoot.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
every scene with christensen and/or portman in sith is worse whan anything in jedi, and jedi's last half hour+ is the very best part of the whole franchise.
but again, I don't hate sith, it has a lot of ups, McDiarmid mostly, but he was already fantastic in Jedi.
I also don't remember anything nearly as dumb as the drone surfing (in sith's final duel) in jedi.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
I didn't like how fast the Anakin/Vader transition played on screen (the novelization handled it somewhat better).

Otherwise I though Sith was really very good overall. The scene in Palatine's office was great. Got chills. (right up until he takes a knee and says "I'll do whatever you want etc". Otherwise great, except maybe for Fisto getting dispatched way too quickly.
 
O

Oldest Snake

Member
Forgive me if this info is posted elsewhere but I'm trying to avoid most spoilers, I'm just curious about this after reading a topic on Reddit.

Do we know if Finn/Rey are planned to be 'the' couple in the new trilogy?

I've read some conflicting things regarding Finn's character that say
he had a family and they're dead or missing, which is what causes his crisis of faith in the New Order. If that's the case it would be kinda shitty to write him a new love interest, depending on how long ago he lost them.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
Oldest Snake said:
Forgive me if this info is posted elsewhere but I'm trying to avoid most spoilers, I'm just curious about this after reading a topic on Reddit.

Do we know if Finn/Rey are planned to be 'the' couple in the new trilogy?

I've read some conflicting things regarding Finn's character that say
he had a family and they're dead or missing, which is what causes his crisis of faith in the New Order. If that's the case it would be kinda shitty to write him a new love interest, depending on how long ago he lost them.
Click to expand...
Couple as in love interest? Doesn't appear that way, but I suppose we don't have complete confirmation. But safe to say at least for VII there won't be anything going on there.
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
Oldest Snake said:
Forgive me if this info is posted elsewhere but I'm trying to avoid most spoilers, I'm just curious about this after reading a topic on Reddit.

Do we know if Finn/Rey are planned to be 'the' couple in the new trilogy?

I've read some conflicting things regarding Finn's character that say
he had a family and they're dead or missing, which is what causes his crisis of faith in the New Order. If that's the case it would be kinda shitty to write him a new love interest, depending on how long ago he lost them.
Click to expand...

Rumor is that the new female for Episode 8 could be a possible love interest of Finn. I think the actresses have been reading with Boyega. I think Finn and Rey will be friends like Luke and Han.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
Oldest Snake said:
Forgive me if this info is posted elsewhere but I'm trying to avoid most spoilers, I'm just curious about this after reading a topic on Reddit.

Do we know if Finn/Rey are planned to be 'the' couple in the new trilogy?

I've read some conflicting things regarding Finn's character that say
he had a family and they're dead or missing, which is what causes his crisis of faith in the New Order. If that's the case it would be kinda shitty to write him a new love interest, depending on how long ago he lost them.
Click to expand...

we don't know.
I'd be very surprised if an interracial couple would be the lead, but I'd absolutely love it. Imagine a black skywalker in episodes X to XII. but I doubt they are that bold, my guess is that rey and poe may hook up.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
They cast a new young female lead role for 8 don't forget and the role was cast opposite Boyega due to the role needing chemistry with Boyega. I am guessing that is most likely his love interest if there is one.
 
O

Oldest Snake

Member
Thanks folks. I had read that they were casting someone that fans assumed would be a love interest for Finn, but wasn't sure if that was the case.
 
T

Timu

Member
George Oscar Bluth II said:
There were four things I liked in RotS:

Obi-Wan.
Palpatine.
The opening space battle until the buzz droids arrive.
That Anakin & Padme Coruscant stare scene.

Here are the things I liked in RotJ:

Luke.
Palpatine.
Lando.
The Death Star II space battle.
All the stuff in the Emperor's throne room.
The speeder bike chase.

Also I dislike the bad stuff in RotS far more than I dislike the bad stuff in RotJ.
Click to expand...
This, Episode 6 is quite better than Episode 3 overall, if Episode 3 didn't have problems with the writing, acting and dialog I would had rate it the same as Episode 6 or maybe even higher. Oh well, at least Episode 3 is a prequel movie that I liked quite a bit.
 
R

Rootbeer

Banned
Bobby Roberts said:
Kinda surprised the soundtrack hasn't gone up yet.

Gotta be soon.

Wouldn't be surprised if it's MillenniumFalcon's last blast.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about it the last few days.

This is one leak they can't hold for much longer, right? These soundtracks almost always get out early.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Zulithe said:
This is one leak they can't hold for much longer, right? These soundtracks almost always get out early.
Click to expand...

Even more than the script/novelizations not getting out, the soundtrack not getting out would be my biggest surprise of the pre-release party that normally goes down with these films.

(of course, usually the soundtrack would be officially released by now)
 
K

Kitschkraft

Member
I personally prefer Jedi to Sith. I think that the last half-hour is *really* good, good enough to make up for most of the film before it. Gotta say that I find Billie Dee's work under appreciated a bit, Ford/Fisher were fucking up but I really bought Lando's "face-turn". That final space battle is my favorite space battle in cinema, even moreso than the trench run in ANH.

I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't dislike AOTC. Honestly, when it comes to rewatching the prequels...it tends to be the most enjoyable to me.

Moff said:
we don't know.
I'd be very surprised if an interracial couple would be the lead, but I'd absolutely love it. Imagine a black skywalker in episodes X to XII. but I doubt they are that bold, my guess is that rey and poe may hook up.
Click to expand...

I saw this last night and thought "hmmm".

Nevertheless, I don't know how much we should read into those chemistry reads. Even Daisy/John had reads with one another. I think that the net just assumed they were casting his love interest.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
GentlemanCrow said:
Age has nothing to do with preference I find. I have a friend in his forties who will defend the prequels to the moon and loves Clone Wars. He's great but I never trust his critical thinking because he bases his love of a film on if he likes the director rather than if the film is good. He will dismiss a film without watching it if he has no history with the director.

I'm 27 grew up with the Special Editions but now I avoid anything that isn't the theatrical cuts of the OT.

I'll admit there are some interesting ideas and visuals in The Phantom Menace. And it's the one prequel that doesn't look like ass now - thanks to having been shot on film - but the other two prequels are as bad as each other. Sith is the hardest pill to swallow for me because unlike the other two, Sith has a great idea to hang the plot on. A gift of story. The fall of a hero and it utterly fails to capitalised on that. It somehow fails to tell that story well, let alone tell it dramatically.

I find it baffling that some say that Sith is better than Jedi. Jedi is the weakest of the OT, but it is still a well acted, visually engaging film with the best space battle and arguably the best duel in the OT. A duel rich in pathos, suspense and emotion. People cite pacing and Ewoks but I'd argue that the pacing of Sith is worse, The Obi/Grevious subplot is a dead end and is ultimately pointless.

The Clone Wars feels like damage control to me. Other writers making up for the missteps of films. I shouldn't have to watch CW to better enjoy the prequels. The OT doesn't require that step. They were good on their own.

As to what a "fan" can or can't enjoy. They can count what they want as canon. It's their party. Hell, there is such a disconnect visually and tonal between the OT and everything else that I find it crazy easy to just delete it from my canon. Am I any less a fan because of me making that distinction? Does it make anyone else more of a fan because they love Tano or Dooku? Of course not.

I'm a massive Star Wars fan. Huge. I freaking love the first three films. The more I watch them the more they engage with me. As I get older I appreciate things I never have before, moments I (somehow) missed. They are eternally re-watchable for me. They are movie magic. And they still move me.
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I don't disagree with you on most of what you wrote. Of course I prefer the OT and I can recite the entire dialogue of the Battle of Endor with just the soundtrack playing in the background.

I could argue, like Bobby, that Sith isn't as bad as many OT lovers say it is. And Jedi, for all the wonderful things it has in the last half hour, is a drag to watch during the first two acts, honestly (ironically, it was the first SW movie I watched and that got me hooked).

Having said that, Anakin and Padme relationship is truly, really, godawful and makes Sith practically unwatchable in those parts. I love the rest though.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
abso-fuckin-lutely

edit: This Time Magazine piece has some pretty interesting shit in it.

I have seen the future of the past, or about 20 minutes of it. In that 20 minutes–mild spoilers follow–a young woman named Rey, played by Daisy Ridley, sits disconsolately on a dead-end desert planet in the shade of a wrecked AT-AT, waiting for her life to happen. (“I know all about waiting,” she says.) Her only companion is a friendly droid named BB-8. At the same time Poe Dameron, a captured rebel pilot played by Oscar Isaac, is being tortured by the sinister masked dark-sider Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) aboard a Star Destroyer belonging to the evil First Order, a military faction inspired by the Empire. Finn, the Stormtrooper, having realized that he wants to be one of the good guys, busts Poe out and together they steal a TIE fighter (“I’ve always wanted to fly one of these things,” says Poe).

They crash-land on the desert planet where Rey lives. Poe is presumed dead in the crash, but Finn meets up with Rey and BB-8, who turns out to be carrying information vital to the resistance. The First Order is hot on their heels. They need to escape. There’s a ship, Rey says, but it’s “garbage”–a clapped-out old rust bucket. Pan over to the garbage ship. It is the Millennium Falcon. And scene.
Click to expand...

And the first quote featuring Abrams specifically verbalizing an avoidance of the tone/tenor of the Prequel Trilogy:

Another delicate matter: Abrams has to figure how to be true to Lucas’ vision, and also how to avoid being true to the bits of Lucas’ vision that didn’t really work. Abrams is diplomatic about the prequel trilogy, but it’s safe to say they weren’t his primary model for The Force Awakens. (It’s neither fun nor original to beat up on the prequels, but they really weren’t very good.) “Even in the beginning, J.J. would say, ‘I don’t want it to be like the prequels, because I don’t want it to be all cluttered and about senate embargoes and all sorts of middle-aged kinds of concerns,'” says Rick Carter, the movie’s production designer, who has worked on basically every Hollywood megahit since The Goonies. “‘I want this to be about the edge of the frontier, with real threats and real people.'”

The approach Abrams arrived at was to go back to the techniques Lucas used the first time around, the time that really mattered, all the way back in 1977. Abrams almost literally devolved the entire production of The Force Awakens technologically to an earlier era of filmmaking. He shot on film. Wherever possible he abandoned CGI in favor of models and practical effects, and green screens in favor of actual sets and physical locations. “I wanted to feel that thing that I’d felt when I was a kid watching this movie, which was that this was actually happening,” Abrams says. “So the decision was made very early on to build as much as we can and actually film it. And what that would do is obviate the need to try to make people believe it was actually happening. Because it simply would be happening.”

There’s both a logic to it and a funny perversity: what Lucas did then, with crude untried technology and minimal computer power, on a bare-bones budget and under desperate time pressure, Abrams has redone with all the time and money and computing power in the world.
Click to expand...
 
S

shingi70

Banned
I can't imagine any one not liking Clone Wars, granted I skew into the prequel era age bracket.

my listing is is 4 >5>3>6>1>2

I will gladly admit that Empire is a better film than A new hope, but I prefer ANH for being so simple.
 
G

GentlemanCrow

Member
shingi70 said:
I can't imagine any one not liking Clone Wars, granted I skew into the prequel era age bracket.
Click to expand...

It's damage control. And it feels like it. So many things happen that aren't mentioned in the films.

But fundamentally it's connected to a part of the story that I find incorrect in its execution. I've seen a lot of clips from Clone Wars and it very much feels like the tone of the prequels in the hands of competent writers. But it is in service of a part of the story I can't get behind. I don't like the visuals of the prequels, the role of the clones, senate and Jedi. The abundance of lightsaber combat/light saber analogues is also indulgent. The Clone Wars is very much the prequels done right but the prequels don't mesh with the Original Trilogy all that well so anything using them as an inspiration isn't going to work for me.

I'm better off imagining my own prequels like everyone did before 1999.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
Guys, they're just movies. George Lucas didn't take a steaming dump on the child versions of your faces. The hate continues to be absurdly hyperbolic. And anybody who doesn't passionately hate the prequels doesn't automatically have low standards.

I actually think the overarching big picture plot of the prequels is very good. It's some of the execution and details that really hold it back. To hate the role of the Senate, clones, and Jedi in the trilogy is an odd complaint. All that works together to trigger the downfall of the Jedi, the rise of the emperor. In a lot of ways the way the big picture plays out is a perfect contrast and setup for the OT.

The trilogies having different tones and imagery in a lot of ways really plays up how different the state of the galaxy is in those tineframes. Sure some of that is incidental based on technology and Lucas's whims, but it still mostly works for me.

It really seems like when the prequels are involved for "older" Star Wars fans, something viscerally snaps in their minds and all rational sensible thinking just goes out the window. Let go of your hate! Regardless, maybe this isn't the thread for all these worn out arguments.
 
graffix13

graffix13

Member
prag16 said:
Guys, they're just movies. George Lucas didn't take a steaming dump on the child versions of your faces. The hate continues to be absurdly hyperbolic. And anybody who doesn't passionately hate the prequels doesn't automatically have low standards.

I actually think the overarching big picture plot of the prequels is very good. It's some of the execution and details that really hold it back. To hate the role of the Senate, clones, and Jedi in the trilogy is an odd complaint. All that works together to trigger the downfall of the Jedi, the rise of the emperor. In a lot of ways the way the big picture plays out is a perfect contrast and setup for the OT.

The trilogies having different tones and imagery in a lot of ways really plays up how different the state of the galaxy is in those tineframes. Sure some of that is incidental based on technology and Lucas's whims, but it still mostly works for me.

It really seems like when the prequels are involved for "older" Star Wars fans, something viscerally snaps in their minds and all rational sensible thinking just goes out the window. Let go of your hate! Regardless, maybe this isn't the thread for all these worn out arguments.
Click to expand...

Good post.

You can't even have a Star Wars discussion nowadays without someone bringing up the prequels and "how bad they are". We get it. "They suck". This thread (Episode 7 Spoilers) is just yet another example.

The more people hate them the more I like them. Fuck the majority I'll form my own opinion on what entertains me.
 
S

shingi70

Banned
GentlemanCrow said:
It's damage control. And it feels like it. So many things happen that aren't mentioned in the films.

But fundamentally it's connected to a part of the story that I find incorrect in its execution. I've seen a lot of clips from Clone Wars and it very much feels like the tone of the prequels in the hands of competent writers. But it is in service of a part of the story I can't get behind. I don't like the visuals of the prequels, the role of the clones, senate and Jedi. The abundance of lightsaber combat/light saber analogues is also indulgent. The Clone Wars is very much the prequels done right but the prequels don't mesh with the Original Trilogy all that well so anything using them as an inspiration isn't going to work for me.

I'm better off imagining my own prequels like everyone did before 1999.
Click to expand...

This type of throught process just doesn't seem normal to me.


Honestly I love the role that the emperor and Senate plays into the story. I like the fact that Palps used politics to his advantage and reminds of old martial arts films where the Quing Dynasty detory the shailon martial arts orders.
 
T

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
prag16 said:
If you're going that route, you're missing a ton of >>>>>>> in between 6 and 1...
Click to expand...

Other people weren't doing multiple symbols between so I didn't either.
 
T

Tookay

Member
"Seven feet tall and very very thin."

The possibility of Snoke looking like that old ROTJ concept art of Palpatine is becoming more and more likely.

RalphMcQuarrie_EmperorZapsLuke+(1).jpg
 
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