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[Corran Horn]

Wow I had to play a skirm against AI to try this, awesome! I got a mothership/broodlord army afterwards. Take that, very easy computer!

You can do it with Terran too, but it takes many parasites lol

 

[Hazaro]

Shame they have shared food so no 400/400 armies.

 

[Aylinato]

bleh terran is boring



also, just watch imbalanced, all they did was complain about colosi(also idra hates void rays cause they apparently counter broodlords >.>

 

[Corran Horn]

Hint: idra hates everything that's not him

 

[Pandaman]

also, just watch imbalanced, all they did was complain about colosi(also idra hates void rays cause they apparently counter broodlords >.>

were you expecting 20 episodes on marines? >_>

 

[Aylinato]

were you expecting 20 episodes on marines? >_>

i was more expecting a tri-race approach, but alas, idra focused only on the other race

 

[Pandaman]

i was more expecting a tri-race approach, but alas, idra focused only on the other race

each episode will focus on a different unit.

 

[Corran Horn]

each episode will focus on a different unit.

Every terran and protoss unit!

 

[Accidentus]

Well you have a show centered around the two biggest Zerg qq'ers in the community, idk what everyone expected really.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I wish Imbalanced was more than just Idra and Artosis sitting on a coach staring into a camera. Would be nice if it featured some gameplay footage to illustrate points

 

[V_Arnold]

Wow, so much misconception about Idra around here. He makes his point very clear, articulate his opinion properly, and is NOT biased towards Zerg in the way you guys think. Some of you stop processing information when the name appears, just because he has a tendency to "enrage" in games. Yet, when he is SPEAKING, he has been only an honest, intelligent player.

That is one thing. Artosis? Zerg QQ aside, he has casted more SCII games than any user HERE has played so far. And that was not solely ZVX, there were plenty of TVT, TVP, PVP games aswell. Be blind to that fact, and say dumb stuff if you want, but fact is: Artosis probably has more game knowledge than any dedicated non-pro T/P player right now thanks to that. Jeez.

Every terran and protoss unit!

Yeah, Zerg units are so imba...WHAT?

 

[Yoshichan]

Imbalanced is a great show and I can't wait for part 2...

Both Artosis and Idra points out some good things.

 

[mescalineeyes]

I think that addressing colossi with forcefields is fair criticism when regarding the balance of the game, although I am still not 100% convinced that the current strategy dictated by the metagame is the way to go about zvp.

 

[Aylinato]

I think that addressing colossi with forcefields is fair criticism when regarding the balance of the game, although I am still not 100% convinced that the current strategy dictated by the metagame is the way to go about zvp.

1 ultra breaks the forcefields, or just run away(if u get roach burrow+move u can get out of the forcefields), zerg shouldn't face a protoss army that has the jump on them with forcefields

 

[V_Arnold]

1 ultra breaks the forcefields, or just run away(if u get roach burrow+move u can get out of the forcefields), zerg shouldn't face a protoss army that has the jump on them with forcefields

Are you serious? you GOTTA have to fight that protoss army sooner or later, they can force the encounter out of you in your 2nd, 3rd or 4th base. And when the actual fighing appears, you would need 3-4 times faster burrow movement for that burrow to actually make a difference in the fight. Teching up to ultra would not help in a heated fight like that.

 

[Aylinato]

Are you serious? you GOTTA have to fight that protoss army sooner or later, they can force the encounter out of you in your 2nd, 3rd or 4th base. And when the actual fighing appears, you would need 3-4 times faster burrow movement for that burrow to actually make a difference in the fight. Teching up to ultra would not help in a heated fight like that.

forcefields require good micro, as does burrowing out of forcefield trap of death, so why should protoss have to micro but zerg not?

 

[V_Arnold]

forcefields require good micro, as does burrowing out of forcefield trap of death, so why should protoss have to micro but zerg not?

Okay, I am gonna stop right here. Forcefielding a choke is 3-4 click on a single target area.
Ordering chunk of your roaches to burrow, move to a point, unburrow reactively is a very different type of "micro". Not to mention forcefielding while your colossues do automatic aoe damage is one thing, being stuck with half of your army, and manouvering while half of your forces are not shooting (non-aoe, mind you) is another.

 

[Aylinato]

Okay, I am gonna stop right here. Forcefielding a choke is 3-4 click on a single target area.
Ordering chunk of your roaches to burrow, move to a point, unburrow reactively is a very different type of "micro". Not to mention forcefielding while your colossues do automatic aoe damage is one thing, being stuck with half of your army, and manouvering while half of your forces are not shooting (non-aoe, mind you) is another.

r+move command, plus r again


3 commands =/= 3 clicks????

as well as banelings do AoE when they explode(dunno what ur trying to complain about with their AoE, as tanks AoE as well)

 

[mescalineeyes]

pvz is so easy to micro, my one-armed friend can do it.
literally, he's diamond league with toss.

I can't believe anyone would suggest Toss is in any way harder than Zerg. literally every unit Zerg has is harder to use or more unwieldy than anything in the Protoss arsenal. If you consider using forcefields micro, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[V_Arnold]

r+move command, plus r again


3 commands =/= 3 clicks????

as well as banelings do AoE when they explode(dunno what ur trying to complain about with their AoE, as tanks AoE as well)

Banelings aoe once, and they are very fragile. Tanks, thors to air, colossus do not shoot ONE aoe and die, they continue to shoot until they are alive. It is like having a few grenades (banelings) as opposed to having a few (real life) tanks in the field. I am not sure why you bring up banelings though, as they wont appear in the colossi+gateway vs roach-hydra battle.

 

[mescalineeyes]

I am not sure why you bring up banelings though, as they wont appear in the colossi+gateway vs roach-hydra battle.

I am slowly getting the feeling they should.

 

[V_Arnold]

I am slowly getting the feeling they should.

You "just" gotta make sure they are not hit first (cause then they die way before they reach anything, and you bet colossi will focus fire them), but if they are not ahead, you need space to move them in while the two armies are engaged. I would say burrow banelings might work, but Robo tech is needed for colossi, and who is the protoss who does not bring at least a cheap observer to a fight like this?

 

[Aylinato]

I do not see why forcefields does not require micro, as it has to be placed specifically or it's useless; and if you have too many sentries in your army, it would be in nature weaker than a composition with immortals/zealots/stalkers. As Idra also stated, broodlords r very efficient against colosi(until blink stalkers) however I don't know why you dont mix hydras/lings to a broodlord army to make short of a heavy stalker build(with colosi)


::EDIT:: hydras melt gateway units, that is why i said they should be used together with lings to kill the stalkers

 

[twofold]

Who was it that was using baneling drops in ZvP? Some Korean Zerg was experimenting with them and having some success from what I remember.

Edit - This forcefield micro argument is dumb. Good forcefields require forethought and precision. Look at how Incontrol, for example, drops forcefields in pvz compared to practically every other Protoss out there. His forcefield usage in the matchup is arguably the best I've seen. If he's not splitting an army in half, he using a pair of forcefields to funnel units into a small area or using them to gain a positioning advantage over the other player.

Saying Zerg players should use Ultras or Roach burrow micro to get around forcefields is also incredibly dumb.

 

[mescalineeyes]

::EDIT:: hydras melt gateway units, that is why i said they should be used together with lings to kill the stalkers

the only problem is that colossus do not counter hydras, they nullify them.

 

[Aylinato]

Who was it that was using baneling drops in ZvP? Some Korean Zerg was experimenting with them and having some success from what I remember.

Edit - This forcefield micro argument is dumb. Good forcefields require forethought and precision. Look at how Incontrol, for example, drops forcefields in pvz compared to practically every other Protoss out there. His forcefield usage in the matchup is arguably the best I've seen. If he's not splitting an army in half, he using a pair of forcefields to funnel units into a small area or using them to gain a positioning advantage over the other player.

Saying Zerg players should use Ultras or Roach burrow micro to get around forcefields is also incredibly dumb.

i've seen some people use the roach burrow micro to get out of forcefields and be extremely effective in doing so, as to an alternative to just saying forcefields require no forethought nor micro

 

[mescalineeyes]

i've seen some people use the roach burrow micro to get out of forcefields and be extremely effective in doing so, as to an alternative to just saying forcefields require no forethought nor micro

sure must rule playing against scrubs that dont have an observer in their death-ball.

 

[Aylinato]

sure must rule playing against scrubs that dont have an observer in their death-ball.

no, they had an observer, im saying it's a last resort type thing if you really really can't deal with forcefields

::EDIT:: panda also had a good idea of increasing the mana cost to 75(i liked that idea)

 

[zlatko]

sure must rule playing against scrubs that dont have an observer in their death-ball.

Lol. Such a good point since most if not all Protoss at any skill gap will have a robo, and generally the obs is the first thing that gets chronoed out of it.

 

[Ikuu]

Put a cooldown on Forcefield and increase the range of Corruptors, also once we get better maps it should be easier to deal with. One of the issues now is you can't reinforce quick enough to deal with the Protoss Army.

 

[V_Arnold]

Make Hydras cost 150/75, eat up 3 food, and have 130hp.

 

[fanboi]

Put a cooldown on Forcefield and increase the range of Corruptors, also once we get better maps it should be easier to deal with. One of the issues now is you can't reinforce quick enough to deal with the Protoss Army.

That is some good points.

 

[mescalineeyes]

Make Hydras cost 150/75, eat up 3 food, and have 130hp.

so they take 3 colossus blasts instead of 2?
:>

I mean you can somewhat mitigate the issue if you are stubborn about upgrading your carapace but as soon as colossi are out, it's like your hydras don't even exist.

 

[V_Arnold]

so they take 3 colossus blasts instead of 2?
:>

I mean you can somewhat mitigate the issue if you are stubborn about upgrading your carapace but as soon as colossi are out, it's like your hydras don't even exist.

Lol, if you go that way, there is no point in having a unit hp at all..

 

[fanboi]

In general, Hydras need to be more viable...

Now they are only usable in certain situations (which is a very narrow time frame usually).

 

[Pandaman]

guys, i dont think aylinato is suggestion burrow move as the ideal hard counter to forcefields at all levels of play, he's bringing it up as a dirty get out of jail card for people in our level of play who get bruised by forcefields alot.

 

[Aylinato]

hydras do need a buff, that is for certain, they do have a good dps range, just their health, speed, and cost are just a bit much for their utility. (though i don't think they should buff all three of those weak area, mostly 1 with a little from another, such as increase speed, decrease food(maybe i dunno))

 

[V_Arnold]

Hydralisk's hp is obviously a template from an age where it is a T1.5 unit, not after Lair-type.

 

[Aylinato]

i would love to see hydras be a tier 1.5 unit again, just still have their range upgrade be a lair-tech upgrade (as to match with blink stalker upgrades, in a manner of speaking)


::Edit:: maybe even a upgrade with lair-tech that upgrades speed as well

 

[ultron87]

Hydras would obviously need to do somewhat less damage as a T1.5 unit. Otherwise Toss couldn't really hold off an early hydra push given their current tendency to melt through gateway units like butter.

 

[V_Arnold]

Either they should be "downgraded", but not require lair, OR
They should be upgraded, with the proper stats.

It is too risky to bring them out of creep. It is too risky to somewhat "mass" them.

 

[zlatko]

What's the best unit to deal with mass marauders if you are a protoss? My unit composition is usually stalkers lots sentries and collasi in PvT. When the skrimishes take place it's always the marauders clutching out the wins.

Do I need to drop collasi and go for a more void ray or immortal composition?

 

[Meeru]

What's the best unit to deal with mass marauders if you are a protoss? My unit composition is usually stalkers lots sentries and collasi in PvT. When the skrimishes take place it's always the marauders clutching out the wins.

Do I need to drop collasi and go for a more void ray or immortal composition?

immortals own mauraders so hard, but u need enough so they can actually handle being focused on.

 

[Aylinato]

What's the best unit to deal with mass marauders if you are a protoss? My unit composition is usually stalkers lots sentries and collasi in PvT. When the skrimishes take place it's always the marauders clutching out the wins.

Do I need to drop collasi and go for a more void ray or immortal composition?

zealots, immortal, and stalker mix(maybe a few sentries to try to forcefield them in place, as to trap them so the zealots can hit them)

 

[V_Arnold]

What's the best unit to deal with mass marauders if you are a protoss? My unit composition is usually stalkers lots sentries and collasi in PvT. When the skrimishes take place it's always the marauders clutching out the wins.

Do I need to drop collasi and go for a more void ray or immortal composition?

Chargelots with Immortals should do the job.
Then, depending on where your enemy goes, you can go Voids or Templars.

 

[Aylinato]

Chargelots with Immortals should do the job.
Then, depending on where your enemy goes, you can go Voids or Templars.

i usually go HT first, then whatever i feel like(mostly DT as well muahaha) i do not go void rays very much anymore as they are just too slow to harass


::EDIT:: I am also going to start randomin(maybe) for team games, as I also want the archon portrait, plus I enjoy the other playstyles as well


::EDIT2:: team games tonight?? yes, no, maybe so? (we can cheese the ladder if you want!)

 

[Pandaman]

i just realized we could reject all of aylinatos arguments using his standing in the last tourney.
he lost to the guy who lost to the guy who lost to the guy who lost in the finals.

Spoiler

♥

and i'd be up for team games.

 

[zlatko]

i usually go HT first, then whatever i feel like(mostly DT as well muahaha) i do not go void rays very much anymore as they are just too slow to harass


::EDIT:: I am also going to start randomin(maybe) for team games, as I also want the archon portrait, plus I enjoy the other playstyles as well


::EDIT2:: team games tonight?? yes, no, maybe so? (we can cheese the ladder if you want!)

6 pool all day 'ereday? I'd be down for cheesing in teams.

 

[Aylinato]

6 pool all day 'ereday? I'd be down for cheesing in teams.

6pool+my cannon rushing the same person=glorious times will be had


::EDIT:: at least I didn't go colosi =)

 

[zlatko]

6pool+my cannon rushing the same person=glorious times will be had


::EDIT:: at least I didn't go colosi =)

Speaking of weird cheese stuff I had a 3v3 game that was sorta genius. If I recall one guy from the other team took all his workers to harass us, and have us pull workers from our lines to deal with it. While that was going on another on their team did lings to help harass, and the third guy also helped with I think marines or lings too. I forgot exactly, but it was just the fact that one guy on their team more or less sacrificed himself for his team getting the win right out the gate.

There wasn't much we could do. I would pull enough workers here and there to stop his harass, but the second that happened, he'd run off and go harass another team mate. Once the lings showed up two people were being harassed at once.

Really wish Blizzard would do something about stuff like this. It seems 2v23v34v4 is just a complete afterthought and joke to them, since they haven't done a thing to address it.