watervengeance
Member
Keikaku said:
Exact reason why I want to change to playing Zerg or Terran.
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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT2| GL HF GG
- Thread starter Corran Horn
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Exact reason why I want to change to playing Zerg or Terran.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
Anyone else ever have someone ragequit on them after they cheesed their way into a lead, but didn't win outright? I got 6pooled today and despite killing all but two of my probes, the zerg leaves the game without a word when it became apparent that he would have to do more than just stream lings into my base to win. This is why cheese has a negative connotation, because of the clueless people who don't even know how to fully use it.
Pyke Presco
Member
Yeah, Protoss definitely has its limitations. I love how they look on the field and their style of gameplay, and the units are big massive beatsticks that can wreck similarly sized armies from the enemy, but the achilles heel of any protoss force is mobility. If you can force a straight up confrontation you will usually come out on top, but as soon as Terran starts medivac guerilla tactics, or zerg plays the "speedling/muta run by, ignore your army, and crush your base" strategy you are kind of left reeling. And your harassment options as Protoss are EXTREMELY limited, you dont have the mobility of a muta ball or a hellion drop and have to rely on phoenixes which, while great, don't do anywhere near as much damage as the other races, or a warp prism harass which is usually a suicide mission for the 4 or 5 unfortunate souls who drew the short straws. Also yes, their main strategies tend to leave a little to be desired. The 4-gate and 2-gate robo are such versatile strategies and make such a well-balanced force that you sort of have to stick with them unless you get extremely lucky with an off the wall tech choice that doesnt get scouted, but that means that every game will look fairly similar and can become a little boring. on the other hand, it's tough for any other army to get such a well balanced force off of tier 1/1.5 as a 4-gate protoss going stalker/zealot/sentry.
But I personally just can't get enough of them. To each their own. Like you, I kind of want to try and get into Zerg, but every time I play them I'm so lost as to what to do with teching and the macro mechanics are so much tougher and unforgiving when compared with Protoss that it scares me away.
But I personally just can't get enough of them. To each their own. Like you, I kind of want to try and get into Zerg, but every time I play them I'm so lost as to what to do with teching and the macro mechanics are so much tougher and unforgiving when compared with Protoss that it scares me away.
faceless007
Member
(Hi, I'm new to this thread and to SC)
Was the Collector's Edition really overproduced or something? It seems to be gone most places, but it's on sale at Fry's for $70 and when I went today there were still a dozen or so on the shelves.
Was the Collector's Edition really overproduced or something? It seems to be gone most places, but it's on sale at Fry's for $70 and when I went today there were still a dozen or so on the shelves.
So, I was on my break today at New York Comic Con, and I randomly walked over to the Intel booth, and I was treated to see my buddy Kevin Riley (qxc) smoke HuK in Game 4. I know this is old news to you guys, but the atmosphere was great; the bleachers they set up were beyond overcrowded, and the audience was going nuts.
I agree that HuK played fairly badly, but it was still a great game. Then I fist-bumped qxc after he won.
The end.
I agree that HuK played fairly badly, but it was still a great game. Then I fist-bumped qxc after he won.
The end.
elrechazado
Banned
I hate TvT but I can't wait to see qxc vs fenix tomorrow.Feep said:
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Its like most CEs. Make too many and usually cheap a month later. Target had them on clearance like a week later for 50$faceless007 said:
Keikaku said:
As a higher ranked Protoss player, I can confirm and deny some of your fears. I feel that PvT and PvZ are actually fairly dynamic match ups where I have a lot of options as the protoss player and can play to my style instead of being forced into a build order. I actually don't do either a 4 gate or a 2 gate robo in PvT or PvZ and do really well in those match ups. PvP though is terrible, it has to be the absolute worst match up in SC2 and is everything you fear. ATM I'm trying stargate openings in PvP and having no success at all.
As far as mobility goes, I think a MMM army is much more mobile than anything a Protoss can really field, but that's about the only "standard" army that I feel significantly outdoes the protoss on the mobility front. And even then warpgate blunts the edge of that advantage enough that you can deal with it. I'd love to figure out a way to work pheonix's into my army well in PvT as that would help significantly with the drops, but haven't really found anything yet.
People say that Protoss aren't really mobile, but that only accounts for using warpgate/robo units as a strictly ground army. I see very little warp prism play, which surprises me, since dropping 2 Immortals into the back of your opponent's base, and then warping in 3 or 4 zealots to disrupt the mineral line while the Immortals take out a tech structure is an extremely effective strategy. Or drop a probe behind the mineral line, switch to phasing mode, build a cannon, and warp in some units to defend it.
If you insist on just balling up your units and walking them around, then Protoss isn't mobile. But nothing's really stopping anyone from using different control groups and forming multi-pronged attacks like Terran drops.
If you insist on just balling up your units and walking them around, then Protoss isn't mobile. But nothing's really stopping anyone from using different control groups and forming multi-pronged attacks like Terran drops.
Official SCII Forums Thread: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/777578529
Official Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNkzpBjQ-U4
Shadow Assault 2.1 has been released! Some fixes for the previously biggest patch for SA is here! Go to Battle.net now to play!
Changelog said:
Hope you enjoy it, version 2.2, which will be the last substantial patch for a while, isn't coming for another week.
watervengeance
Member
People just need to discover the uses of a Warp Prism. The problem is that Protoss no longer have Reavers, which was the primary usage of Shuttles in Brood War. While Immortal Drops are tons of fun, they're not nearly as effective. Strom Drops are still awesome though.
Personally, I think the main problem is that any Warp Prism play is instantly shut down by a single Viking and good Queen usage.
Personally, I think the main problem is that any Warp Prism play is instantly shut down by a single Viking and good Queen usage.
watervengeance
Member
Pandaman said:
Too bad a Colossus drop isn't as effective and soooooooooooooooooooo expensive.
vicissitudes
Banned
HD Starcraft came to Berkeley today to cast a tournament here. Cool to see him in person. Finals was a best out of 7, during game 6 the spectator disconnected so we went into the players' rooms to watch them finish the game. Got to see a 1800+ diamond Zerg player in action, it was awesome
watervengeance
Member
In other news, only TWO Zerg players made it into the Round of 64 for Day 1 of the GSL2 offline qualifiers. :lol (IdrA and PhoenixWeRRa)
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/news/228
Day 2 of the qualifiers is still ongoing, but some of the results are being posted.
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/news/229
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/news/228
Day 2 of the qualifiers is still ongoing, but some of the results are being posted.
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/news/229
watervengeance
Member
Pandaman said:
Artosis got knocked out I believe, as well as a couple of Chinese players.
Edit: Haypro (Team Liquid), Artosis, Luffy (Chinese pro), GoStop (WC3 player) all got knocked out.
TheThunder
Member
They should release it the same day as Cataclysm, so that the servers would blow up.jersoc said:
pieatorium
Member
just won a game because the terran i was against forgot to lift his depots back up
Played some games today massing one unit in 3v3 and 4v4.
Despite telling our opponents what we were making and facing some teams that were together I think we went 7-0.
Medivac, Roach, Phoenix, Hellion
Infestor, Queen, Marauder
Marine, Sentry, BattleCruiser
Tank, Viking, Archon
Raven, Sentry, DT, ____
And some others I can't remember.
Macro and map control is your friend!
Despite telling our opponents what we were making and facing some teams that were together I think we went 7-0.
Medivac, Roach, Phoenix, Hellion
Infestor, Queen, Marauder
Marine, Sentry, BattleCruiser
Tank, Viking, Archon
Raven, Sentry, DT, ____
And some others I can't remember.
Macro and map control is your friend!
MisterAnderson
Member
Just read Blizzard's plans for the upcoming patch.
I think they are making a mistake by requiring a supply depot to make a Barracks. And it also seems stupid to require a factory for Reaper speed. Reapers are only really useful in early game, and while you certainly can get a fast Factory and get Reaper speed it will significantly delay their effectiveness.
Increasing Roach range seems like a step in the right direction though, as does making Fungal Growth negate Blink.
Also before I get flamed; I never do Reaper openings and I play as Random.
I think they are making a mistake by requiring a supply depot to make a Barracks. And it also seems stupid to require a factory for Reaper speed. Reapers are only really useful in early game, and while you certainly can get a fast Factory and get Reaper speed it will significantly delay their effectiveness.
Increasing Roach range seems like a step in the right direction though, as does making Fungal Growth negate Blink.
Also before I get flamed; I never do Reaper openings and I play as Random.
MisterAnderson said:
The problem with Reaper speed is that it is an upgrade which negates Speedlings, and FORCES Z to either mass queens+spine crawlers (which is not so good) or go to Roaches.
And whoopsie, isnt tech lab the one building where hard counter to roach, the Marauders come? Therefore it is a trap for Z if they go to the logical way of counter. You can still use reapers without speed, but that would not force anything else beside Zerglings massing / 1-2 plus queens.
Only T was the one race where every T1 upgrade were available from the start, without requiring a plus tech (Lair upgrades, TC upgrades for Protoss)
MisterAnderson
Member
V_Arnold said:
It's just that as it is, Reapers are so specific and situational in their purpose that they are only really viable early on. I understand that they do constrict Zerg tech by making speedlings much less effective with Nitro Packs, but I almost feel like they should just straight up take Reapers out of the game at this point since they really have no use at all aside from early game harass, and then mid-late game they are more or less used as fodder scouts or simply to try to stay alive near Xel'naga towers, always avoiding any kind of fight since they can't kill anything mid-late game.
Every other unit in the game has some kind of combat effectiveness mid-late game at some capacity, but I feel like Reapers really don't at all. And that kind of goes against what Blizzard's usual goal for units in their RTS games. A Marine can always be a useful unit. A Zergling can always be a useful unit. A Zealot can always be a useful unit. I might just be tired from lack of sleep, but thinking in my head right now I could very well list every single T1/1.5 unit in the game that has some kind of place mid-late game. Reapers really don't. I still think they need some kind of late game upgrade that gives them some other use that makes them more viable later in the game. And the reason I feel like moving Nitro Packs back in the tech tree is a mistake is just simply because like I said, Reapers are only useful early on to begin with. So I suppose what I'm trying to say is...I do agree that SOMETHING should be researchable for the Reaper later on in the tech tree, but Nitro Packs probably won't be a worthwhile upgrade to get at that point. There's only a small window early on that allows you to really take advantage of your opponent with Nitro Pack Reapers. And once you have your Factory, Hellions do a better job of fending off Zerglings 9 times out of 10 anyway. Using your example (that Terran are the only ones where all their T1 upgrades are available from the get-go) is a good point, so maybe they should move back one of the other upgrades instead, like Concussive Shell or Combat Shield while leaving Nitro Packs where they are?
I don't know, time will tell. The change honestly doesn't really effect me at all since I'm not fond of using Reapers and prefer Hellion harass as Terran. And I pretty much always go 10 Suppy, 12 Rax opening (or 11 Gas for fast Factory). Just my 2 cents. Reapers need something to be not shitty late-game IMO. (kind of not addressing the patch so much as addressing my feelings on Reapers, but yeah)
Also, LOL at the Curb.gif. Love that actor from Children's Hospital. And I apologize for my likely shitty grammar/confusing post since I am having trouble sleeping tonight and am tired lulz.
yea i agree, i'm not very good but even watching pro's play, i have seen no worthwhile use of reaper outside of the first few minutes of the game. i'm sure someone will come up with something but just seems like kind of a waste of a unit. then again, the only thing i can do successfully is reaper harass en route to getting my face smashed, so maybe thats why i dont want them to change it :lol
also, that curb.gif made me actually lol, so perfect
ps. can someone point me to a website with some different terran build orders or guidelines. i seem to be stuck between not teching enough or over teching and losing. i check the #'s later and i usually have a similarly valued army and higher income... i think my composition is just bad, i either dont have the units i need quick enough or have too many medivacs or something and either way, it doesnt end well.
also, that curb.gif made me actually lol, so perfect
ps. can someone point me to a website with some different terran build orders or guidelines. i seem to be stuck between not teching enough or over teching and losing. i check the #'s later and i usually have a similarly valued army and higher income... i think my composition is just bad, i either dont have the units i need quick enough or have too many medivacs or something and either way, it doesnt end well.
MisterAnderson said:
Well, you are right that Reapers must find their "purpose" (although I do not think that they should be THAT viable, after practically FORCING every P to open with a Stalker and forcing every Zerg to go with Roach or waste Lings instead of eco to a certain extent...), but as a massable anti-building force, they are just deadly. Deadly.
If marauder were not that strong as they are currently, I can seriously believe that Terrans could simply do reaper drops instead of mara/Marine drops - they would be deadlier (maybe allow reapers to use stim?). That way the damage output might stay the same as a stimmed marauder, but they could have been easily killed too, Protoss could warp 2 stalkers and actually survive the fight, etc.
That is just a suggestion, ofc. But still, after half a year of always having to think as with both protoss and both zerg : "Oh my god, what if he comes with 1-2-3 reapers in the next 30-60 seconds and I do not have the proper defenses yet?", I honestly would not mind the whole unit just being in Single Player only. Anyways.
This way, with factory required, Terrans would actually have to COMMIT to a harass style, not just reap the rewards of killed enemy eco with their reapers while maintaining a perfectly healthy economy themselves, plus mulles. That is just not good, regardless what terrans might say on that matter : )
h0pper said:
shhh... just keep trying
or do what I did, realise you can't get better with what you're doing, change up your strat! I'm now just trying to focus on my 9 - 10 minute mark of the game, with my push then, making that stronger and if i lose that push i generally lose.. but once I have that down, I'm going to start focusing on after that, making the next 5 minutes solid with an expansion and so on!
Matches happening today:
IEM 3rd/4th place playoff
The drewbie vs Huk playoff match is not being streamed live or shown on the big screen at the event. Instead day9 will create VODs to be released after the final is streamed live as detailed below.
IEM Final
2.30 EST (4.5 hours from this post)
qxc vs Fenix
http://tv.esl.eu/de/esltv_edge_free/
Global Gamers Invitational
4.00 EST (6 hours from now)
TT1 vs TLO,
IdrA vs Capoch,
DIMAGA vs Dark.forcE,
Stalife vs HuK
http://www.ustream.tv/iccuptv
I believe these games are pre-recorded, but they are new and the results not yet known.
Edit: Updated 3rd/4th place playoff info
IEM 3rd/4th place playoff
The drewbie vs Huk playoff match is not being streamed live or shown on the big screen at the event. Instead day9 will create VODs to be released after the final is streamed live as detailed below.
IEM Final
2.30 EST (4.5 hours from this post)
qxc vs Fenix
http://tv.esl.eu/de/esltv_edge_free/
Global Gamers Invitational
4.00 EST (6 hours from now)
TT1 vs TLO,
IdrA vs Capoch,
DIMAGA vs Dark.forcE,
Stalife vs HuK
http://www.ustream.tv/iccuptv
I believe these games are pre-recorded, but they are new and the results not yet known.
Edit: Updated 3rd/4th place playoff info
Lion Heart
Banned
pieatorium said:just won a game because the terran i was against forgot to lift his depots back up
I lost two days ago because I went to reveal with my command center (DT's) and lifted off by accident :lol . I couldnt get it down and my whole army got wiped out.
Kaltagesta
Banned
I am getting absolutely hammered in the final mission of the campaign. I get to about 60-70% charge, and I just get over-run. I've tried using a ton of siege tanks, tried using a ton of air power, tried using a ton of the hive mind manipulator things, though that requires a hell of a lot of macro, and I've tried combinations of these and I'm just stuck!
Any tips? I did the anti-air mission btw, so the only air power I'm up against is the pointless floating things.
Any tips? I did the anti-air mission btw, so the only air power I'm up against is the pointless floating things.
Kaltagesta said:
Bunkers before tanks. SCV's near bunkers and tanks, stuck there. Fire aoe turrets (Perdition turret) in any place between bunkers but BEFORE tanks. Tanks on high ground, defended by a missile turret or two to kill overlords that might allow nydus to come in.
Have a medium-sized army in your base to kill the popping nydus.
And that should be it. Use tank mercenaries, use upgrades on building armor, on mech damage.
yeah, I mean, I still love the game. I just am not very good :lol
I think I just get out produced. I don't expand quick enough I think. I don't feel comfortable expanding unless I have a decent force and that handicaps me. I'm going to play a few now. I'll post the replays in a bit.
I think I just get out produced. I don't expand quick enough I think. I don't feel comfortable expanding unless I have a decent force and that handicaps me. I'm going to play a few now. I'll post the replays in a bit.
If you've planetary fortress researched, just make a bunch of those at chokes and later even by the artifact and you'll barely lose any units at all, even on brutal. I suppose even regular CCs might work since you'll have a bunch of tanks behind them anyway.Kaltagesta said:
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