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[Pandaman]

RIght but I'm thinking Panda was thinking that wasn't a real GSL, but forgot the Jan GSL.

correct.

 

[hamchan]

So January doesn't count as a GSL now? I also hated that month.

 

[ultron87]

correct.

I was hoping you were just making a burn at MarineKing.

 

[HolyCheck]

So January doesn't count as a GSL now? I also hated that month.

My birthday is in January

 

[TheThunder]

It was a real GSL whether Panda thinks it is or not.

 

[Pandaman]

It was a real GSL whether Panda thinks it is or not.

invite based tourney that sprinkled the tourney with random stooges who couldn't even make code A is totally the same as a gsl.

 

[Keikaku]

invite based tourney that sprinkled the tourney with random stooges who couldn't even make code A is totally the same as a gsl.

But what about GSL January? Unless you were dissing MKP or something

 

[TheThunder]

invite based tourney that sprinkled the tourney with random stooges who couldn't even make code A is totally the same as a gsl.

It was based on GSL season points (the korean invites) and as far GOM goes (and anyone else for that matter) it is a real GSL.

 

[Pandaman]

But what about GSL January? Unless you were dissing MKP or something

what does MKP have to do with anything?

 

[hamchan]

MKP vs Mvp was the final of GSL January.

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

Well MVP said Terran is the weakest race and he's a pro, so I guess he's right. He's won two GSLs, so he's more right than Idra is.

What? I don't know why some of you think that just because these guys are professionals that they're completely incapable of being biased or just straight up incorrect in their assessments of certain aspects of the game. I'm a big Idra fan, but that doesn't mean everything he says in gospel. It's actually because I'm a fan of his that I don't really take half of what he says seriously. He's so salty about every loss and quick to blame ANYTHING but himself for a loss it's hard to take his legitimate complaints seriously.

wow please don't insert words into my mouth

i said SOME of his arguments are valid. I did not say ALL of his arguments are valid.

Please tell me a serious rebuttal for his(idra's) argument last night regarding early game zerg scouting that he made on state of the game last night. If you play zerg(i'm just going to go on a hunch that you don't) then you'd see his point unless you obviously don't play zerg.

 

[Keikaku]

what does MKP have to do with anything?

MVP won GSL January against MKP. I was wondering if you had really forgotten that or were just trolling about MKP not being a good player or something.

 

[Pandaman]

MVP won GSL January against MKP. I was wondering if you had really forgotten that or were just trolling about MKP not being a good player or something.

was mkp the only other player in code S in january? because if he wasn't, MVP would have beaten 30 other people too.

 

[Keikaku]

was mkp the only other player in code S in january? because if he wasn't, MVP would have beaten 30 other people too.

Right, yes, you're correct but you're also being pedantic.

EDIT: You said MVP hadn't won any GSL's and I'm just pointing out that he has, in fact, won 1.

 

[hamchan]

was mkp the only other player in code S in january? because if he wasn't, MVP would have beaten 30 other people too.

He also beat NesTea and Ki Soo on the road to the finals.

Why were we talking about this again?

I'd totally count the WC as a GSL win too. I don't know why you wouldn't.

 

[Pandaman]

Right, yes, you're correct but you're also being pedantic.

i just dont understand where this 'taking a dig at mkp' stuff is coming from, especially since you're not the only one to say it.

MKP isnt even a bad player, sure he invented the 2rzx/scv stuff, but there's a reason we shout bitbybit instead of marineking

EDIT: You said MVP hadn't won any GSL's and I'm just pointing out that he has, in fact, won 1.

yep and as i said at the top of this page, i had forgotten about January.

 

[BigAT]

wow please don't insert words into my mouth

i said SOME of his arguments are valid. I did not say ALL of his arguments are valid.

Please tell me a serious rebuttal for his(idra's) argument last night regarding early game zerg scouting that he made on state of the game last night. If you play zerg(i'm just going to go on a hunch that you don't) then you'd see his point unless you obviously don't play zerg.

It wasn't just directed at you. A lot of people have used "he's a pro, you're not, so stfu" as some sort of rebuttal against anyone that disagrees with what he has to say.

I haven't listened to last night's SotG yet, so it's hard for me to respond to Idra's specific points as I'm not sure what he even said, although this is hardly the first SotG that he has bitched. I main Terran, but I've been practicing with Zerg a fair amount the last couple of weeks. Not that that suddenly gives me a deep understanding, I'm just being clear about what I play. Personally, I'm of the belief that many Zerg players don't fully use all of the scouting tools available to them (sacking Overlords, upgrading to speed or Overseers) and are frequently too quick to complain instead of trying to work with the tools they have and figure out something new.

invite based tourney that sprinkled the tourney with random stooges who couldn't even make code A is totally the same as a gsl.

He faced, and beat, nothing but current Code S players and GSL considers it a GSL Championship. Who am I to argue with them?

 

[Keikaku]

i just dont understand where this 'taking a dig at mkp' stuff is coming from, especially since you're not the only one to say it.


yep and as i said at the top of this page, i had forgotten about January.

Well, I missed the post where you admitted to forgotting GSL Jan., so I was wondering if you were all like "Oh, he played MKP so it wasn't a real GSL trolololol"

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude or anything, I just wasn't sure what you were saying.

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

invite based tourney that sprinkled the tourney with random stooges who couldn't even make code A is totally the same as a gsl.

and those invites were based on league points that were earned in the regular season. he may have dropped down to code a but before his slump he was doing quite well. whether or not he's recovered from it I don't know(I don't watch code a as my time's limited and would rather watch code s instead) but seeing as he's in the finals I think it's safe to say he has.

It wasn't just directed at you. A lot of people have used "he's a pro, you're not, so stfu" as some sort of rebuttal against anyone that disagrees with what he has to say.

I haven't listened to last night's SotG yet, so it's hard for me to respond to Idra's specific points as I'm not sure what he even said, although this is hardly the first SotG that he has bitched. I main Terran, but I've been practicing with Zerg a fair amount the last couple of weeks. Not that that suddenly gives me a deep understanding, I'm just being clear about what I play. Personally, I'm of the belief that many Zerg players don't fully use all of the scouting tools available to them (sacking Overlords, upgrading to speed or Overseers) and are frequently too quick to complain instead of trying to work with the tools they have and figure out something new.

overlord speed requires lair tech and as of right now it requires blind luck(sending in a sacrificial overlord and praying you gambled right) or when it's too late(the attack is coming.) Like I said earlier, I agree idra complains a lot but this time he was spot on and day9 couldn't offer a proper solution either. even tasteless called into the show to agree with idra.

 

[twofold]

It wasn't just directed at you. A lot of people have used "he's a pro, you're not, so stfu" as some sort of rebuttal against anyone that disagrees with what he has to say.

I haven't listened to last night's SotG yet, so it's hard for me to respond to Idra's specific points as I'm not sure what he even said, although this is hardly the first SotG that he has bitched. I main Terran, but I've been practicing with Zerg a fair amount the last couple of weeks. Not that that suddenly gives me a deep understanding, I'm just being clear about what I play. Personally, I'm of the belief that many Zerg players don't fully use all of the scouting tools available to them (sacking Overlords, upgrading to speed or Overseers) and are frequently too quick to complain instead of trying to work with the tools they have and figure out something new.

I don't know why you're trying to make it out as some sort of massive revelation that you can sacrifice an Overlord to get scouting info. We've already pointed out why it's not that good, yet you choose to ignore us.

Additionally, post-lair scouting was never a problem - Overseers and Overlords with speed are awesome for that. Hatch tech scouting is the issue.

 

[Ikuu]

You can sac all the Overlords you want still doesn't mean you've got a chance of actually seeing what you need to see, it's very easy for a Terran to shut down scouting and then you're left to play the guessing game.

 

[BigAT]

I don't know why you're trying to make it out as some sort of massive revelation that you can sacrifice an Overlord to get scouting info. We've already pointed out why it's not that good, yet you choose to ignore us.

Additionally, post-lair scouting was never a problem - Overseers and Overlords with speed are awesome for that. Hatch tech scouting is the issue.

My point wasn't that no one does it, just that not enough Zerg players do. I still believe that based off of my personal experiences both playing and watching the game.

overlord speed requires lair tech and as of right now it requires blind luck(sending in a sacrificial overlord and praying you gambled right) or when it's too late(the attack is coming.) Like I said earlier, I agree idra complains a lot but this time he was spot on and day9 couldn't offer a proper solution either. even tasteless called into the show to agree with idra.

I know that, but how is Zerg scouting pre-Lair tech any worse than Protoss scouting pre-Robotics tech?

 

[DaFish]

My point wasn't that no one does it, just that not enough Zerg players do. I still believe that based off of my personal experiences both playing and watching the game.


I know that, but how is Zerg scouting pre-Lair tech any worse than Protoss scouting pre-Robotics tech?

I think walling off is the real issue here. the fact toss and terran can wall and stop ground units from scouting and zerg really can't (until roaches) makes it a hell of a lot easier for toss or terran to scout zerg.

 

[BigAT]

I think walling off is the real issue here. the fact toss and terran can wall and stop ground units from scouting and zerg really can't (until roaches) makes it a hell of a lot easier for toss or terran to scout zerg.

That's definitely a fair point. You can double queen as well, but I think that's too inconvenient to really count. I suppose it's possible with (4?) zerglings, but again, that doesn't seem effective enough to really count as a wall off.

 

[DaFish]

That's definitely a fair point. You can double queen as well, but I think that's too inconvenient to really count. I suppose it's possible with (4?) zerglings, but again, that doesn't seem effective enough to really count as a wall off.

oh yeah queens...

I need more queens in my play

 

[twofold]

My point wasn't that no one does it, just that not enough Zerg players do. I still believe that based off of my personal experiences both playing and watching the game.

And we, the Zergs who do sacrifice overlords every game, say you are wrong.

I know that, but how is Zerg scouting pre-Lair tech any worse than Protoss scouting pre-Robotics tech?

Here's the difference. A Protoss player can produce an army and build an economy at the same time. A Zerg can't.

They can also use forcefields to block a ramp in case of early pressure. Zergs don't have this luxury.

I think walling off is the real issue here. the fact toss and terran can wall and stop ground units from scouting and zerg really can't (until roaches) makes it a hell of a lot easier for toss or terran to scout zerg.

If a Zerg doesn't take their natural, you already know an all-in is coming. You don't need to be able to scout inside their base to know this.

 

[Corran Horn]

SC2 is full of hate atm...

 

[DaFish]

If a Zerg doesn't take their natural, you already know an all-in is coming. You don't need to be able to scout inside their base to know this.

you can have an expo and have all of your tech structures inside your main base... you don't want the other guy knowing what those are even if you expanded three or four times.

 

[cubicle47b]

I know that, but how is Zerg scouting pre-Lair tech any worse than Protoss scouting pre-Robotics tech?

Protoss can one-base a lot longer than Zerg so they have the advantage of being less spread out, unit production not being split, and being able to defend from the top of a ramp. Sentries can hold off ground pushes until they're ready to push out. Anti-air is available as soon as the Cybernetics Core is up where Zerg rely on Queens until Lair and then have to make a Spire or Hydra den. Zealots, Stalkers, and Sentries are all made from Gateways so you can alter your defense based on what you need whereas you need different buildings as Zerg before you can create the counter unit. In other words, major defensive advantages towards the unknown.

Also, other races can be a lot more aggressive towards Zerg without worrying as much about counter-aggression at the start of the game so that encourages people to stay home more often and play a macro game.

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

My point wasn't that no one does it, just that not enough Zerg players do. I still believe that based off of my personal experiences both playing and watching the game.


I know that, but how is Zerg scouting pre-Lair tech any worse than Protoss scouting pre-Robotics tech?

Protoss doesn't nearly get as boned as zerg does due to inability to scout. The best way you'd see this is first hand is to play zerg yourself but in short speaking strictly early game, protoss is not as limited as zerg is. If you open banshee and i'm either terran or protoss I can deal with it decently(assuming no cloak.) As a zerg player however i'm limited to my queens and even then they die quickly and take a long time to rebuild.

 

[Corran Horn]

Lol log in and see the face of day9 right there on screen

Cool to see blizz interview him.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2658252

 

[pieatorium]

you can have an expo and have all of your tech structures inside your main base... you don't want the other guy knowing what those are even if you expanded three or four times.

Your baneling nest or Roach warren, the counter to both being stalker sentry.

 

[Yoshichan]

God damn, sooooooo much hate in SC2 lately.

 

[WedgeX]

SC2 is full of hate atm...


http://synthesis.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/emperor.jpg

God damn, sooooooo much hate in SC2 lately.

We need someone to bring balance to GAF SC2.

 

[Q8D3vil]

then you have people like q83 who think they know better than idra and call him and others a joke. Maybe he does- maybe he doesn't but i'll trust someone who plays this game for a living than some random person on a forum.

but hey, internet anonymity for the win I guess? at least he puts himself out there (non tourney stuff) compared to the trolls he has to deal with

just woke up and read that.
i didn't say i know better than idra, but even the pro with him in sotg were laughing at him every time he open his mouth.

when they asked him "what is the weakest race in bw" and he stopped talking is the best example of how idra mind work.

as someone said the mvp argument in this thread that terran is the weakest races, you don't see terran players shouting everywhere that terran is the weakest race just because mvp said that but you see zerg players arguing that zerg is weak because idra the lord of zerg said that.

as i mentioned earlier, idra think better mechanics should always make some players wins and i don't think we reached that level in sc2 yet (game need patching and we still have 2 expansion coming until we reach the final state of sc2).

gsl spoiler

Spoiler

when idra said that losira didn't deserve to lose to sc is biggest example of how weak idra argument is.

 

[Aylinato]

We need someone to bring balance to GAF SC2.

he will come bearing two names of the same name

 

[zlatko]

I have come after speaking with the Gods to spill this truth upon you all:

Bitches ain't shit, but ho's and tricks.

That is all.

 

[Tetsuo9]

just woke up and read that.
i didn't say i know better than idra, but even the pro with him in sotg were laughing at him every time he open his mouth.

when they asked him "what is the weakest race in bw" and he stopped talking is the best example of how idra mind work.

as someone said the mvp argument in this thread that terran is the weakest races, you don't see terran players shouting everywhere that terran is the weakest race just because mvp said that but you see zerg players arguing that zerg is weak because idra the lord of zerg said that.

as i mentioned earlier, idra think better mechanics should always make some players wins and i don't think we reached that level in sc2 yet (game need patching and we still have 2 expansion coming until we reach the final state of sc2).

gsl spoiler

Spoiler

when idra said that losira didn't deserve to lose to sc is biggest example of how weak idra argument is.

Yes, and while we wait for blizzard to tweak mechanics and balance the races, he is a progamer that needs to win international tournaments to make a living and sustain a carreer with high expectations, and he is watching that the race he is good at is behind the other 2 races in terms of championships won.

 

[Pandaman]

sheth, destiny and mrbitter are all on skype together on sheths steam.

 

[Corran Horn]

sheth, destiny and mrbitter are all on skype together on sheths steam.

are you having a zergasm?

 

[pieatorium]

Huk is commentating his stream atm and no shitty music, he just got crushed by Nada and then Coca, he did out 4 gate HonUn too from what I've seen so far.

 

[SteveWinwood]

sheth, destiny and mrbitter are all on skype together on sheths steam.

Why would you ever watch Sheth's stream over Destiny's?

 

[kmc]

sheth, destiny and mrbitter are all on skype together on sheths steam.

drunk sheth is amazing haha

 

[Yoshichan]

come come, my lady, come come, my lady

all I could hear from HuKs stream :/

 

[SteveWinwood]

come come, my lady, come come, my lady

you're my butterfly sugar baby

EDIT: Also that duck ate the taco!

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

just woke up and read that.
i didn't say i know better than idra, but even the pro with him in sotg were laughing at him every time he open his mouth.

when they asked him "what is the weakest race in bw" and he stopped talking is the best example of how idra mind work.

as someone said the mvp argument in this thread that terran is the weakest races, you don't see terran players shouting everywhere that terran is the weakest race just because mvp said that but you see zerg players arguing that zerg is weak because idra the lord of zerg said that.

as i mentioned earlier, idra think better mechanics should always make some players wins and i don't think we reached that level in sc2 yet (game need patching and we still have 2 expansion coming until we reach the final state of sc2).

gsl spoiler

Spoiler

when idra said that losira didn't deserve to lose to sc is biggest example of how weak idra argument is.

both liquidtyler and incontrol laughing at idra doesn't mean much since neither of them play zerg, they play protoss. He made a valid point last night regarding and no one had a proper rebuttal for it. You don't go see go to a hospital and see a podiatrist regarding an eye problem, you go see an optometrist. Same case here, neither of them are experts in zerg and i'm not asking for them to give advice regarding it. Day9 suggested a half assed answer that didn't really help much if at all.

and please cut the sarcasm of "lord Idra" I don't even main zerg nor do I really like idra as a player to begin with but he does have a valid point. Zerg has to deal with a ridiculous amount of potential cheese early game and I can see why it's frustrating.

 

[Tetsuo9]

both liquidtyler and incontrol laughing at idra doesn't mean much since neither of them play zerg, they play protoss. He made a valid point last night regarding and no one had a proper rebuttal for it. You don't go see go to a hospital and see a podiatrist regarding an eye problem, you go see an optometrist. Same case here, neither of them are experts in zerg and i'm not asking for them to give advice regarding it. Day9 suggested a half assed answer that didn't really help much if at all.

and please cut the sarcasm of "lord Idra" I don't even main zerg nor do I really like idra as a player to begin with but he does have a valid point. Zerg has to deal with a ridiculous amount of potential cheese early game and I can see why it's frustrating.

It was just facts, zerg players are not winning tournaments. This was discussed in TL some month ago and I remember being quite shocked by this post by idra:

On January 22 2011 14 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 22 2011 14 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:08 Saechiis wrote:
Great, Idra aiming to start a new era of Zerg QQ. I'd like his new humble attitude if only it didn't stem from his view of Zerg as being vastly underpowered. At some point you'd expect him to just switch to Toss or Terran and own everyone, but somehow if feel that's never going to happen.

I appreciate him trying to create more content for SC2 fans, if only he wasn't so painfully biased.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


you realize ive just spent like 10 months playing zerg?
i have very little experience with tvt/pvp/tvp and zerg's mechanics are relatively unique compared to the other races. even if im right and t/p are easier and stronger than zerg it would still take a long time to get to the level of my zerg with either of them. and if i dont have immediate success i catch a bunch of shit for it, and eventually blizzard will have to address the balance issues and then i feel like an idiot, because i do prefer to play zerg.

this is why almost no competitive players have switched races. however the fact that just about every high level zerg player has considered switching, if not publicly announced they intend to, kind of says something. how many t's and p's do you see saying theyre gonna switch? i can only remember genius. whereas with zerg dimaga, machine, sheth, myself, ret, haypro, fd, check, and possibly other korean z's have all either practiced other races seriously or announced that we want to/intend to switch.

 

[StopMakingSense]

sheth, destiny and mrbitter are all on skype together on sheths steam.

lol Just turned it on to Sheth dropping beer bottles on his PS3.

 

[Corran Horn]

Started laddering again, after next week I should be playing alot more since school is almost done. Man Im rusty -,-.


Still debating on switching race, but protossing it up atm!

 

[zlatko]

Destiny's stream is on another level right now.

"Yeah I watch the anime where the girl takes her clothes off. Oh man she's half octopus too? This is what I expected from The Little Mermaid."

XD XD XD