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[a176]

scouting is only an issue because in bw, overlords could detect cloaked units and hydras were T1; those two factors alone would eliminate phoenix/vr and cloaked banshee, allowing the zerg early game to become much more predictable.

as a zerg, with the above mechanics, youd really only need to worry about bunker rush.

but lets be honest; at this point in time, the game is flushed out enough that players should know what is coming, or atleast have some scouting tricks to fall back on.

imo, zergs just need to figure out neural parasite more

 

[Ultrabum]

scouting is only an issue because in bw, overlords could detect cloaked units and hydras were T1; those two factors alone would eliminate phoenix/vr and cloaked banshee, allowing the zerg early game to become much more predictable.

imo, zergs just need to figure out neural parasite more

This X 1000. I think nerfing hydras (lol) can making them tier 1 and buffing roaches and making them tier 2 would fix zerg as a race.

 

[Q8D3vil]

so reading that idra was banned from tl after waking up is the best news ever.
good job tl.

This X 1000. I think nerfing hydras (lol) can making them tier 1 and buffing roaches and making them tier 2 would fix zerg as a race.

i would love if blizzard did that.
2 factory blue flame = auto win in every tvz.

 

[PhoenixDark]

This X 1000. I think nerfing hydras (lol) can making them tier 1 and buffing roaches and making them tier 2 would fix zerg as a race.

blue flame hellion

 

[Ultrabum]

yeah blue flame would be a good strat... but I'd rather worry about blue flame, than banshees... Blue flame, you can at least wall off with evo's and spines.

 

[Aylinato]

k, so I got one stream working, livestream



so my stream is now http://www.livestream.com/aylinato


we'll be able to stream GAF nights, or any other events that we need now =)

 

[Hazaro]

k, so I got one stream working, livestream



so my stream is now http://www.livestream.com/aylinato


we'll be able to stream GAF nights, or any other events that we need now =)

But I already have a stream :[
*Also the Livestream cap of ~500kbps makes SC look really bad. Could you not get justin.tv or xsplit to work?

 

[Ashhong]

should make a GAF community stream that anybody can access and use if one streamer is unavailable. is that too hard to do since people have different setups and stuff?

 

[Aylinato]

But I already have a stream :[
*Also the Livestream cap of ~500kbps makes SC look really bad. Could you not get justin.tv or xsplit to work?

i will try again tomorrow, as i had to uninstall xsplit because it wouldn't correct itselt(now it won't reinstall)

so ill try justin.tv again, as at least i got xsplit to stop reading as the camera



::EDIT:: good news everyone! I've realized my computer needed a driver to allow me to stream(as xsplit died on me i used another one of split media's services, VHsrccap, and adobe flash media recorder)


now I can stream SC2 on justintv(which I'm testing right now)

::EDIT2:: It works! alright, justintv is my home for streaming GAF stuff

 

[pieatorium]

::EDIT:: good news everyone! I've realized my computer needed a driver to allow me to stream(as xsplit died on me i used another one of split media's services, VHsrccap, and adobe flash media recorder)

I read this in Professer Farnsworth's voice, I hope that was your intention.

 

[Hazaro]

Good, what was it that you needed?

 

[Aylinato]

Good, what was it that you needed?

xsplit had to be unistalled(I dunno what I did to mess it up, but it wouldn't do anything other than flip the screen upsidedown in the stream)

and then after that the VH recorder needed to be installed(it allows for my screen to be captured/read as a camera by adobe's stream software)

and then it was good


(took me three days to do this though, cause at first xsplit worked, then it didn't)


and yes, my intent was to make you read it in professor farnsworth's voice

 

[HolyCheck]

 

[Pandaman]

someone posted a moe~ zerg unit?

 

[jasonng]

:3

Too bad they're not as relevant as they used to be.

 

[Hazaro]

someone posted a moe~ zerg unit?

Panda stop dodging and

Spoiler

COME OUT

to comment on the rep.

 

[Aylinato]

:3

Too bad they're not as relevant as they used to be.

I have an awesome story involving splinter, me, elch, and one random person. There was a long fought struggle in which the enemy had destroyed the person in the north, and had crippled splinter. They hadn't attacked me at all, allowing me to mass up a death ball of fully attack upgraded units(+3 finished at the final engagement).

So the last engagement is about to happen and this one dude had a huge flock of mutas, 20+ and they were upgraded very much(can't remember offhand but at least 2/1) and their 4 armies engaged our 2 armies(as splinter's thors were just chilling behind our army as he was microing hellions in the north) and the mutas are flying in to help destroy our army(and would have).

Unfortunately for that zerg he flew his mutas in a ball right next to splinter's non-moving thors, and the thors take out all the mutas but 6. They lost the game due to it.

 

[Tntnnbltn]

someone posted a moe~ zerg unit?

Just one?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220561

 

[Pandaman]

imo, zergs just need to figure out neural parasite more

LOLOLOLOLOL JUST USE NYDUS AND NEURAL AND BALANCE LOLOLOLOLOL.

i fucking hate you.

-
sooo... i missed mc vs machine and ill be doing the ipl thing during the eu rebroadcast...
anyone wanna lend me a justin.tv account xD

 

[Hazaro]

LOLOLOLOLOL JUST USE NYDUS AND NEURAL AND BALANCE LOLOLOLOLOL.

i fucking hate you.

-
sooo... i missed mc vs machine and ill be doing the ipl thing during the eu rebroadcast...
anyone wanna lend me a justin.tv account xD

Sure if you'd just respond to me.

Spoiler

Never posting ponies again

 

[zoukka]

Back to whining about zerg being crap?

C'mon sons.

 

[Pandaman]

Sure if you'd just respond to me.

Spoiler

Never posting ponies again

haz i dont wanna watch you 6rax thor allin some poor zerg.


@zoukka: nobodies whined about balance yet, ever hear of a self fulfilling prophecy?

 

[Hazaro]

But I was Zerg and I defended a 4 gate!

Also I just did a custom match vs a Master player who was offracing.
I did 2 proxy gate + forge inside his main (and let him see) then transitioned into 4 gate and won.
It was pretty funny. Slow on marauders is scary. Luckily zealots are OP as fuck.

 

[mescalineeyes]

I think what he was saying is that Zerg will get better at learning the right ways to handle what aggression the Terran is doing in the early game with the minimal of investment.

Here's an example.

I've been watching a lot of Nerchio's replays recently since he's been doing really well against Euro Terrans. He opens 14h/14p/16g every game. He drops a Spine at his natural as soon as his natural completes.

If he sees two rax, he grabs metabolic boost when he hits 100 gas. If he sees one rax, he drops a Roach Warren at around 24 food and then grabs 3 Roaches to hold off any Hellion shenanigans. He drops an evo chamber a little later if he suspects a Banshee is coming. Metabolic boost can be taken after Lair if necessary.

still, you have to admit he is pretty much guessing.

 

[Trickster]

Damn, IdrA got banned from tl.net for 90 days for shitting on the tl staff apparanently.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441

 

[Pancakes]

Damn, IdrA got banned from tl.net for 90 days for shitting on the tl staff apparanently.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441

TL mods are jerks but Idra completely deserves this.

 

[zlatko]

Damn, IdrA got banned from tl.net for 90 days for shitting on the tl staff apparanently.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441

You were already beaten to this by a page.

 

[Trickster]

TL mods are jerks but Idra completely deserves this.

I'm curious if it was a single post that caused it this time.

You were already beaten to this by a page.

I just woke up, sorry

 

[zlatko]

I'm curious if it was a single post that caused it this time.




I just woke up, sorry

It's okay I still love you, but don't ever let it happen again! j/k

I doubt it was just the one post that lead to the overall decision. That one post lead to a 2 day ban, but basically idra's response to the 2 day ban lead to harassment of a mod over on the TL forums by idra fangirls. I think this gave them enough to justify the big ass ban hammer on him so it didn't seem over kill. They've got that, his response, the other bans before this, and idra being idra that most people shouldn't blink an eye at this happening.

Idra probably doesn't give 2 shits as long as his streams are still on TL so he gets views, and he can always just lurk to read whatever he wants to read.

 

[Corran Horn]

Damn, IdrA got banned from tl.net for 90 days for shitting on the tl staff apparanently.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441

http://i.imgur.com/cULBN.jpg

 

[Pandaman]

http://i.imgur.com/cULBN.jpg

'i wont stand for you to call your compettors a waste of life'
*scroll up and see staff calling posters idiots, trash and mongrols*
hmm.

 

[Pancakes]

'i wont stand for you to call your compettors a waste of life'
*scroll up and see staff calling posters idiots, trash and mongrols*
hmm.

Only on TL.

 

[twofold]

still, you have to admit he is pretty much guessing.

Yeah, but it's educated guessing based on the possible options available to the Terran. If you have Roach/Ling tech available, you can hold off *most* things that the Terran can do in the early game. As long as you hold the harassment, you should come out ahead, or at least even with the Terran.

We can't change the game, no matter how much we bitch about it, so we have to make do with the tools available to us.

Nerchio's opening reminds me of a more mobile version of the Spanishiwa opening. Instead of Spines/Queens, you get a few Roaches instead. I need to play with it more, but I'm liking it a lot based off my initial playing around with it.

 

[pieatorium]

Day9 and Cella 2v2ing n Cella's stream

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Cancella

 

[Trickster]

http://i.imgur.com/cULBN.jpg

haha oh wow, if getting banned was a crime, IdrA'd be a carrer criminal.

 

[twofold]

Day9 and Cella 2v2ing n Cella's stream

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Cancella

Just clicked on that to see MMA (I think?) laddering on the US server.

Sweet.

 

[pieatorium]

Just clicked on that to see MMA (I think?) laddering on the US server.

Sweet.

Yeah it's MMA, chat got Cella to agree to get him if he got 1.5k veiwers heh

 

[Slavik81]

http://i.imgur.com/cULBN.jpg

Why was this saved as a jpeg? Ugh.

Lots of colours (like a picture of something real) -> JPEG
Few colours (like a cartoon, diagram, or text) -> PNG

 

[Ashhong]

Why was this saved as a jpeg? Ugh.

Lots of colours (like a picture of something real) -> JPEG
Few colours (like a cartoon, diagram, or text) -> PNG

the horror.

 

[Façade]

I can't wait for the huge metagame shift that will allow zerg to scout.

thank you day9 you fucking moron.

His point, though not particularly well articulated, was fundamentally true. Whether or not zerg are able to scout has nothing to do with the balance of the races, but is to do with game design. His point was that the only way a gauge of the balance of the game can be achieved is through thorough research in statistics. The latest ones that showed all races to be around 50% in the TLPD show that the game is getting reasonably close to being balanced between the three races. Whether of not there are problems with the design of the races has nothing to do with balance.

 

[Pandaman]

His point, though not particularly well articulated, was fundamentally true. Whether or not zerg are able to scout has nothing to do with the balance of the races, but is to do with game design.

right and thats why everyone is calling him a fucking moron.

most people would agree that flipping a coin is pretty balanced. heads wins about as often as tails, but that doesn't make it a good game as a spectator sport and nobody is rushing to start up a coin flipping league to support a playerbase. so even if its true that zerg and protoss win 50/50 by blindly guessing and getting the right counters half the time, there is still a huge massive problem to be addressed there. especially since there are other aspects to other matchups at play here.

day9 would argue that the game is perfectly balanced because everyone can pick terran and spend all their energy on scans to eliminate the possibility of blind counters and allins and that would be a balanced game. that's fucking asinine. find any competitive game where that would be acceptable. imagine what would happen if in SSF4, capcoms balance solution to SF4 was 'everyone just pick sagat'. imagine if in MTG darksteel saga, wizards of the coast solved the arcbound issue by just printing more arcbound cards so everyone could do it.

its completely trash, its just arguing for the sake of arguing. you know that guy you hate who always adds an 'well technically its not...' just to be contrarian? that's day9.

 

[syllogism]

Not to mention the point that every race should be equally difficult to play, which can very much not be true even if winrates are balanced. Actually it makes more sense to consider this an aspect of balance, winrates being a separate one

 

[pieatorium]

lol watching SlayerS guys play on NA on cellas stream, Golden(zerg) got 6 pooled and Ryung got Kyrixed.


Ryung about to play Huk

 

[zlatko]

right and thats why everyone is calling him a fucking moron.

most people would agree that flipping a coin is pretty balanced. heads wins about as often as tails, but that doesn't make it a good game as a spectator sport and nobody is rushing to start up a coin flipping league to support a playerbase. so even if its true that zerg and protoss win 50/50 by blindly guessing and getting the right counters half the time, there is still a huge massive problem to be addressed there. especially since there are other aspects to other matchups at play here.

day9 would argue that the game is perfectly balanced because everyone can pick terran and spend all their energy on scans to eliminate the possibility of blind counters and allins and that would be a balanced game. that's fucking asinine. find any competitive game where that would be acceptable. imagine what would happen if in SSF4, capcoms balance solution to SF4 was 'everyone just pick sagat'. imagine if in MTG darksteel saga, wizards of the coast solved the arcbound issue by just printing more arcbound cards so everyone could do it.

its completely trash, its just arguing for the sake of arguing. you know that guy you hate who always adds an 'well technically its not...' just to be contrarian? that's day9.

My moe hero <3

 

[Pandaman]

bit of filesize bloat on this one for its size, but its a consequence of its length.

special guest appearance of ROOTCatZ for GAF's gaffes:

 

[Spl1nter]

Panda. Why is your sleep schedule so fucked up?

 

[Cohsae]

bit of filesize bloat on this one for its size, but its a consequence of its length.

special guest appearance of ROOTCatZ for GAF's gaffes:

I wish I knew SC2 better so I would have any idea of what this gif means.

 

[Façade]

Not to mention the point that every race should be equally difficult to play, which can very much not be true even if winrates are balanced. Actually it makes more sense to consider this an aspect of balance, winrates being a separate one

This is completely arbitrary though, what is easy for one person to do can well be difficult for another. As far as I understand it, Day 9 doesn't have a problem with blizzard patching the game for balance based on stats or for game design reasons, but lone players have little but subjective and biased thoughts towards the game changes.

 

[Pandaman]

I wish I knew SC2 better so I would have any idea of what this gif means.

he's loaded up the fastest unit in the game: zerglings with a speed upgrade.
into the slowest unit in the game: overlords without a speed upgrade.

larger version with larger filesize:
http://www.abload.de/img/catzdrop6cfm.gif

overlord dropship play is pretty strong versus protoss because it lets you get units into areas they otherwise normally wouldnt by bypassing terrain barriers, but requires two essential upgrades, one to give them the function to lift and drop units and one to dramatically increase their speed so you can actually reach your target location in a timely manner. in this game, catz got the drop upgrade, but forgot speed, so his drop took forever to move even a small distance over open ground.

 

[zoukka]

Hmm loading lings into ovies, is quite clever when storm is out.


And watching Idra's stream every now and then, he sure as hell doesn't "guess" the Terran builds half the time. He's just so active with the ovies and lings.

Also I don't see how a zerg could lose a game if they had 100% accurate scouting through out the game. I understand it's stupid to play a guessing game, but playing zerg means you need to prepare for multiple harass methods. It would be nice to only drone until you scout the danger and then pop the perfect counter, but that would be just silly if you could always do it. An extra queen and a few spines won't wreck your economy.