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[zoukka]

Don't you see something wrong with the skill needed to execute the attack being far easier than the defense?

I see different playstyles. It's the same in many other genres. Snipers in Battlefield for example. But I still don't want to see the class turned into assault or anything. I love the fact that Starcraft offers races that feel completely different from each other.

Yeah, and its actually kinda common now for Terran to get a viking first as soon as their starport is done, in which case if you have 5 ovie's out scouting for all this stuff now your super behind ><

Well this is just plain hyperbole. The viking doesn't automagically find all your ovies. And you see a viking? Phew... good intel.

 

[Façade]

Yeah, and its actually kinda common now for Terran to get a viking first as soon as their starport is done, in which case if you have 5 ovie's out scouting for all this stuff now your super behind ><

It's debatable if the viking is worth it though, shows you have starport tech and readies you for drops. It's not like you'll lost 5 ovies, mutas shouldn't be too far away at that stage.

 

[Pandaman]

This was kinda my point. That mutabuild was so popular against Terran, that everyone learned how to break it in pieces because the zerg would just straight tech to mutas in order to get the harassment done ASAP. Then we see someone in a tourney beat terran with something new and the ladder goes apeshit about it. Same thing with spanishiwa. Moldy builds that wait to get ripped.

right, and bringing all this back to the resource argument, its just a simple fact that unless zerg does something spanishiwa style, zergs macro advantage doesn't actually exist.

if zerg goes units, toss and terran easily match zergs economy and because of how the game is designed, zergs defensive ability cannot be extended into map control allowing for competitive third timings quick enough to make overdroning worth it.

ergo, zergs defense is too weak as it does not allow for macro advantages. zergs do not actually have any economic advantage over the other two races, so please stop using droning as an excuse to belittle requests for stronger defense.

 

[zlatko]

I have a siberia v2 headset, and I love it! The mic is good and the sound is great, but most importantly, its comfortable on my head.

That's the one I'm looking at. I'll probably splurge on some steelseries stuff soon, but just wanted to make sure it's worth the cost.

 

[Spl1nter]

the purpose of the viking is to get rid of ovies from paths you are going to drop.

 

[zoukka]

zergs do not actually have any economic advantage over the other two races, so please stop using droning as an excuse to belittle requests for stronger defense.

Maybe you shouldn't have busted to masters where your defences feel insufficient in a way like it's the games fault and not the players?

 

[Ultrabum]

All I'm saying is that overlord positioning is not the answer to zergs scouting problems, and in some cases can be a bad thing because a single Viking can do a ton of DMg with a few shift attack move clicks.

 

[Pandaman]

Maybe you shouldn't have busted to masters where your defences feel like it's the game and not the player?

You're going to have to rephrase that.

 

[zoukka]

You're going to have to rephrase that.

Not really.

All I'm saying is that overlord positioning is not the answer to zergs scouting problems, and in some cases can be a bad thing because a single Viking can do a ton of DMg with a few shift attack move clic

Yeah there's not a single foolproof answer to it. You need a combination of overlord positioning/saccing and lings to find out the intel you need. Gas stealing can help too.

 

[twofold]

If you gas steal a Terran, what viable options do they have? I don't do it very often so I don't know.

 

[mescalineeyes]

If you gas steal a Terran, what viable options do they have? I don't do it very often so I don't know.

you delay cloak.

good job.

 

[Pandaman]

Not really.

Yes, you are.

The words are english, but the sentence isn't.

 

[zoukka]

Yes, you are.

The words are english, but the sentence isn't.

Edited it for you.

If you gas steal a Terran, what viable options do they have? I don't do it very often so I don't know.

I like to steal the gas just because most players send whatever they make to kill the extractor.

 

[zlatko]

Edited it for you.



I like to steal the gas just because most players send whatever they make to kill the extractor.

Wait, now I'm confused by your earlier post at Panda.

It seems like you're saying Panda is a crappy player since he busted his way to Masters, therefore his arguments about Zerg scouting are mute?

 

[mescalineeyes]

Maybe you shouldn't have busted to masters where your defences feel insufficient in a way like it's the games fault and not the players?

how the fuck the zerg's early game defences is not the game is beyond me.

 

[zoukka]

It seems like you're saying Panda is a crappy player since he busted his way to Masters, therefore his arguments about Zerg scouting are mute?

I think you take this whole conversation a bit too seriously.

how the fuck the zerg's early game defences is not the game is beyond me.

How the fuck do zerg players survive early games

 

[Pandaman]

Edited it for you.

thanks.

Maybe you shouldn't have busted to masters where your defences feel insufficient in a way like it's the games fault and not the players?

sorry, sometimes i forget that when you're in eu, in diamond and a random, you can magic resources and larvae out of thin air. once you make masters you have to be lame and stick to boring old reality.

you suck reality!

In reality you cant match toss units for unit cost for cost because your units eat up much more supply than protoss units do. and if you stick to static defense you dont have the map positioning to take a third in the face of what is potentially high aggression 2base play or you can risk not taking a third in the face of what could be a slower macro play.

sure would help if we could tell them apart because then we wouldn't need to buff our defenses or overcompensate on current defenses. its funny because zergs aren't even asking to go macro in every game, we're only asking for the ability to match in response. the ball would still be firmly entrenched in protoss/terran camp in the early game with nonzergs dictating the pace of the game early on. without changes to scouting, the rest of this games history will just be a steady stream of small zerg buffs to deal with the evolution of new play. and one of these buffs will eventually break some timing the metagame built up around as an assumed truth and then we're back to square one with different players for the various roles.

How the fuck do zerg players survive early games

to quote incontrol last night: 'terran built the 6th rax, the game is over. now we're going into a strange intermission where we wait until RET realizes its already over'

It seems like you're saying Panda is a crappy player since he busted his way to Masters, therefore his arguments about Zerg scouting are mute?

to be fair, one of the few things im knwon for on gaf for my actual playstyle is my habit of not drone scouting. >_>

also while he said it, i dont think he was being hostile about it. we wouldnt still be talking if we both weren't exaggerating our hostilities a bit.

 

[zoukka]

Too bad I don't have the time to reach masters. Would be nice to experience the reality :b

 

[Pandaman]

Too bad I don't have the time to reach masters. Would be nice to experience the reality :b

you play random, just do what all randoms do and cheese. you'll win ever RvZ that way.

protoss are pretty cheesable with pvp or zvp too, so thats 55% winrate for free just because you're a random. thats all you need to eventually make masters. win the odd cheese vs a terran or the odd RTvP and you're laughing.

 

[zlatko]

Yeah I wasn't trying to come off like that's what he was saying or that he was being hostile, nor was I trying to sound that way either.

I was just honestly having a hard time figuring out what that last quote was trying to state.

SC2 Gaf is a friendly bunch. If this was a TL thread it would have turned to mud slinging and off topic long ago.

 

[zoukka]

you play random, just do what all randoms do and cheese. you'll win ever RvZ that way.

protoss are pretty cheesable with pvp or zvp too, so thats 55% winrate for free just because you're a random. thats all you need to eventually make masters. win the odd cheese vs a terran or the odd RTvP and you're laughing.

But I don't play to rank up D: (I never cheese unless the opponent is badmouthing)

And mirrors are the worst outside zvz, because for P and T I don't have the same confidence and "gut feel" that I have with Z.

 

[Pandaman]

But I don't play to rank up D: (I never cheese unless the opponent is badmouthing)

And mirrors are the worst outside zvz, because for P and T I don't have the same confidence and "gut feel" that I have with Z.

ofcourse you do, because its a hairtrigger match and zerg typically commits to a race specific opening before he will scout you as a zerg, so you have a natural advantage as random.

as a zerg i haaaaaate matching vs randoms unless they spawn close air.

 

[zoukka]

ofcourse you do, because its a hairtrigger match and zerg typically commits to a race specific opening before he will scout you as a zerg, so you have a natural advantage as random.

as a zerg i haaaaaate matching vs randoms unless they spawn close air.

Heh I love the players who immediately ask what race I am. Even in 1v1 maps. "scout pls".

 

[Pandaman]

Heh I love the players who immediately ask what race I am. Even in 1v1 maps. "scout pls".

if you dont play for rank, its bad manner to not announce race.

you wont improve if part of your matchup is beyond your control. [how the other player opens based on what race he assumes]

everytime i random, i announce race.

 

[mescalineeyes]

In the loading screen it should say Race (Random) (i.e. Protoss (Random)). I don't see why I should be at a disadvantage just because my enemy thinks he's as good with 3 races as I am with one.

 

[zoukka]

Think of it as a test to your build order flexibility.

Also I've been selecting zerg again here and there. Mainly because I play so few games, I make some pretty fucking terrible mistakes as Te and To D:

Goddamn I would like more hours into my daily life :<

In the loading screen it should say Race (Random) (i.e. Protoss (Random)). I don't see why I should be at a disadvantage just because my enemy thinks he's as good with 3 races as I am with one.

See, you need a more positive attitude to this game. That sounds very unfun to me.

 

[Won]

I play like once every 2 months and get people who 6 hatch and then call me noob. What's wrong with people?

 

[zoukka]

I play like once every 2 months and get people who 6 hatch and then call me noob. What's wrong with people?

Internet + people = ?

 

[twofold]

Did some famous Protoss do a DT expand recently? I've never played against it before but I've just gone up against it twice. It's annoying to play against.

..Especially when you forget to build a Lair. Doh. =[

 

[zoukka]

Did some famous Protoss do a DT expand recently? I've never played against it before but I've just gone up against it twice. It's annoying to play against.

..Especially when you forget to build a Lair. Doh. =[

I've seen it in White-Ra's stream. And I've seen some of the most ridiculous forcefields in his stream.

 

[Deadman]

NightEnd has left Prae too, gone to FnaticMSI. Prae has now closed down.

 

[Pandaman]

i'll give you guys a hint:
http://i.imgur.com/eF1tZ.jpg

team GAF is making an open role call to masters level terrans, we need practice partners. >_>

Holden got knocked out by a masters protoss in Ro512
chanstaa got knocked out by a NA Grand masters zerg in Ro512
elcheris got knocked out by a NA grand masters terran in Ro256.
i got knocked out by a EU grandmasters Terran in Ro128.

next qualifier, team gaf must match or exceed these results!

 

[Tntnnbltn]

i'll give you guys a hint:
http://i.imgur.com/eF1tZ.jpg

 

[ahoyhoy]

Panda, I edited my .gif especially for us Zerg...

Fuck Terran Mech. Seriously.

 

[zoukka]

Are the replays available? Was it a bo1?

And I'm sorry you had to lose to cheese

 

[fanboi]

Jeffrey, jesus H christ.

Jesus H Christ

 

[Pandaman]

Are the replays available?

yes, but im embarrassed and enraged.

Was it a bo1?

no, game 2 was a hellion/stim allin. i had banes and speed but i lost my first ling at his ramp and by the time the second got there he as coming, so my lings and banes were a tad slow.

And I'm sorry you had to lose to cheese

its always cheese with terrans.

Jeffrey, jesus H christ.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/206799_10150494174185367_753950366_18020606_5199585_n.jpg[IMG]

Jesus H Christ[/QUOTE]
thats my facebook picture. xD

 

[Pandaman]

Panda, I edited my .gif especially for us Zerg...

Fuck Terran Mech. Seriously.

your gifs were very well timed, good work!

ill find much use for them.

 

[zlatko]

yes, but im embarrassed and enraged.

no, game 2 was a hellion/stim allin. i had banes and speed but i lost my first ling at his ramp and by the time the second got there he as coming, so my lings and banes were a tad slow.



its always cheese with terrans.


thats my facebook picture. xD

Don't be sad panda man. You did hella good, and next time you'll do even better. I definitely want to watch those replays though. I need fap material.

 

[Tntnnbltn]

Are the replays available?

Yes.

 

[Pandaman]

noooo, they're highly embarrassing.


that bunker, why would i overreact like that and not just clean it up with a few lings. ;_;

the guy that beat me is now in the round of 32 though.

 

[Deadman]

EGMasters cup starts in about 2 hours. Casted by wheat and idra

 

[zlatko]

Yes.

Just watched the first replay, and ugh.

Explain your thought process there Panda. When you got to his base and didn't see a rax going up, shouldn't you have known oh shit it's a proxy racks, or at least, "oh shit he's doing something funky, better make lings." Plus, that second bunker was right next to your expo, couldn't you see it on mini map to send more drones faster to stop it?

I think after you got the roaches lings to get him to fly his rax away, you should've just gone mass drone, and keep poking with something to see when he finally goes to his natural. I mean you were already behind, so you had to play risky with mass droning or making army right?

Again I'm gold league so ignore my stupidity if I'm off base.

 

[Pandaman]

Just watched the first replay, and ugh.

Explain your thought process there Panda.

'he's proxying a reaper, i go roach and free win'
instead of:
'he's bunkering a reaper, i clear it away and free win while being safe'

as i said, embarrassing. terrible play by me. no excuses for it. second game is just as bad, i was tilting hard. supply blocks, a halfhearted muta, bad gas, bad droning, etc.

in other news, Holder is now in the round of 16, if he wins one more set he'll be in the actual IPL. he's against destiny or jemag most likely.

 

[zoukka]

Unfortunate ovie placement in the first game, I think you'd got it if that bunker didn't go up.

In the second game you really needed to scout with the ovie next to terrans base. Morph it into overseer preferably. You had everything needed to win there, because all you needed was enough blings against his marine/hellion ball.

But yeah tourney matches are always stressful.

 

[mescalineeyes]

Panda, I edited my .gif especially for us Zerg...

Fuck Terran Mech. Seriously.

we need a protoss version :>

 

[Holden]

we need a protoss version :>

and a zerg one while we are at it

 

[zoukka]

Looping gif of lings endlessly running by a zealot/hole in a wall/lowered depot?

 

[zlatko]

'he's proxying a reaper, i go roach and free win'
instead of:
'he's bunkering a reaper, i clear it away and free win while being safe'

as i said, embarrassing. terrible play by me. no excuses for it. second game is just as bad, i was tilting hard. supply blocks, a halfhearted muta, bad gas, bad droning, etc.

in other news, Holder is now in the round of 16, if he wins one more set he'll be in the actual IPL. he's against destiny or jemag most likely.

You're still my hero.

 

[Pandaman]

we need a protoss version :>