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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT2| GL HF GG
- Thread starter Corran Horn
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Chinese Electric Batman
Banned
Production value of the Master's cup is amazing.
Draft said:
Sure, but you're going to need a basis to go off of.
If you just keep playing over and over, but don't have a clear cut goal and know what you are doing wrong as compared to a top player like say idra, then you're just grinding for no real reason.
I like Day9's advice to the idea of ladder being scary and you avoid playing it. I forget which daily it is, but that one is great to watch if you want to play to get better, but are scared.
He basically suggests to pick one top player of the race you want to play, and just try to mimic them as much as you can. You pick one build to focus on, that is macro oriented, and keep doing that.
There's a lot of other small things that can help make the game start flowing more smoothly other than just watching pros and then mimicking it on ladder. Things like how you play on hot keys, hand positioning, control groups, using shortcuts to move around the camera on the map to save time, etc. I did a write up before how I got from bronze to gold league with SC2 being my first RTS ever. I'll go dig that up if you want to see a quick time line of what I did.
Draft said:
It is a lot easier to improve at all aspects of the game when you play with a practice partner or recieve coaching. Coaching at the lower levels involves givin a player a build order and reminding them about certain macro aspects. Allows them to focus and achieve more easily the basics. Ladder can be pretty bad for learning mechanics because of the need to scout and defend against retarded shit.
chanstaa and holden. also i wouldnt be whoring out team gaf if i didnt say that elcheris is a pretty scary zerg too. :>zlatko said:
<3 to paz, but i never see him in the channel.
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i agree with splinter, alot can be gained just by having someone remind you that there are things to do. there isn't really a huge physical barrier keeping people in low apm/low injects/supply block land, its just people get distracted watching the game. [and that'll always happen up into masters, i cant tell you how many times ive watched a battle while 1sRRRRZZZZTTTTTFFFing and then had my heart stop when i realize i havent been injecting]
oxrock
Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
My apm is kind of crappy, i'm REALLY trying to focus on using hotkeys and always be doing something but I often times find myself just staring googley eyed at battles and not getting anything done. Something I'm consciously working on at any rate. Trying hard to not actually click the screen and to just train myself that way. Sadly without the crazy spamming I do early game while there's nothing going on my apm would literally be like 25-30 /shame. Trying to play more because I think it's something that will just go up with experience. It was day9 daily 269 that deals with getting more into sc2 btw. I'm trying to follow his instructions and get more games in with friends. Sadly I have no friends and people here aren't overly interested from the sounds of things. I don't see myself making a teamliquid blog however =p
Awesome Animals
Member
oxrock said:
Hi, I am bronze league, that means I am bad. If you see me online, ask if I want to play a game and I most likely will. This will give some equal competition. Jump into the NeoGAF channel, and ask for some coaching, someone will step up. If not, wait for Spl1nter or Panda to be in the channel and they will help you. Like people have said, pick a build and work on it, perfect it. Shit, I'm doing that right now.
Hey guys, I just installed Win 7 on my computer and I did a clean install so all my programs
need to be reinstalled. Can someone please give me the Mumble GAF server details again?
I'm trying to internet search for them but, apparently, my Google-fu is weak.
EDIT: Nevermind, Mumble was being silly, but I'm on now
need to be reinstalled. Can someone please give me the Mumble GAF server details again?
I'm trying to internet search for them but, apparently, my Google-fu is weak.
EDIT: Nevermind, Mumble was being silly, but I'm on now
Biff
Member
Okay, so my current go-to BO is Trump's 3rax (may be just known as "3rax", don't know if he invented it, but that's how I know it).
Using this build, you have a 50 supply army at the 7:00 mark. Pretty much the Terran 4gate, but it's been around since beta as from what I can tell is more chalked up as a solid build order than rather than shit on by the community as an easy way to diamond XD
Anyway, here's my question:
In TSL and NASL matches I've watched today, it seems like this build would work a lot in high-level tournament play when executed with proper micro and timings.. Yet I don't see it at all.
Players usually have around 40 food at the 7:00 mark.. Why don't people use the 3rax more often?? Seems easy enough to deny scouting from zerg as your first marine should scoot the OV away. And prots won't have an observer up in time... A 50 food army would crush any fast expands. Yes you'd be screwed long-term, but at 7:00, should be an easy win?
Please enlighten me!
Using this build, you have a 50 supply army at the 7:00 mark. Pretty much the Terran 4gate, but it's been around since beta as from what I can tell is more chalked up as a solid build order than rather than shit on by the community as an easy way to diamond XD
Anyway, here's my question:
In TSL and NASL matches I've watched today, it seems like this build would work a lot in high-level tournament play when executed with proper micro and timings.. Yet I don't see it at all.
Players usually have around 40 food at the 7:00 mark.. Why don't people use the 3rax more often?? Seems easy enough to deny scouting from zerg as your first marine should scoot the OV away. And prots won't have an observer up in time... A 50 food army would crush any fast expands. Yes you'd be screwed long-term, but at 7:00, should be an easy win?
Please enlighten me!
ChefRamsay said:
Because its very heavy one basing and has well known defenses by all races. You are stuck at very low tech. Just because you have 50 food doesnt mean you have 50 food at your opponents base. With new patch you probably dont even have stim at that time.
Nevertheless its pretty decent against toss in certain situations but weak against zerg (banelings and speedlings) and Terran (bunkers and siege tanks are good against bio).
There's a couple of things that prevent it from happening very often. It's not quite as easy to deny scouting as you think it might be. At that level players only need a sniff of what is happening in order to prepare and deny it. Even if they don't see the actual build happening, players can scout the huge army moving out, often with enough time to react and respond.ChefRamsay said:
The maps that are used for tournaments these days are huge and often have any potential close positions eliminated (like the edited versions of Metalopolis and Shakuras). As a result, it takes quite a while to move your ground army to your opponents base. If you move out at 7:00 and it takes 1:00 to move from your spawn to your opponent's, you're basically facing off against 8:00 worth of army with your 7:00 army which gives a HUGE advantage to the defender. In addition, the large map sizes give the defender more time to react when your army moves out. A matter of seconds can be huge when it comes to trying to get up a bunker or spine crawler. Defenders also have the advantage of ramps, chokes, etc.
If your attack gets really badly denied, you've basically lost because your opponent has such an economic advantage over you. It's much easier to 4-Gate at that level than it is to 3-Rax because after you get Warp Gate researched, the forward pylon effectively eliminates the problem of map size and reduces the defender's advantage.
Even with all that said though, I'm still surprised it doesn't happen more frequently than it does. Any player that did it constantly would obviously get destroyed, but as an occasional tactic I think it would be effective. See the ogsMC/PoltPrime series from the latest GSL. GSL spoilers from the beginning of last season:
Polt completely ran over MC two games in a row using early Barracks aggression when MC got too greedy and comfortable with early expanding.
Edit: Oh yeah, the new Stim timing sucks for it as well.
Awesome Animals
Member
Alright, good night for me. Thanks to Spl1nter and Keikaku for all the practice and help. I think it helped a lot for my confidence and understanding what I need to do after the initial opening. It is humorous because I'm able to be a bit more aggressive against the bronze leaguers because they are on a similar level, not Keikaku cheese level . It was a fun, and much needed after not being able to get on in so long.
. It was a fun, and much needed after not being able to get on in so long.Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Zen said:
In the early game, there's nothing to do. An APM of 25-30 is all you need to get everything done in a timely manner. Though more would still be helpful for better scouting.oxrock said:
It's really as you come into the mid or late game that APM really matters. Once you get your production online, you really need at least ~40APM as Protoss to manage everything in a timely manner (though more is better, as it lets you do cute things).
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Artosis raging about getting invited to chat channels. I should invite him to Gaf chat!
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
shrug. I found him through a friend...of a friend...of a friend...of a friend.nilbog21 said:
No...Im not a battle.net stalker.
-For artosis I think I went to Grandmaster league, found Vibe and looked at his match history since he played Artosis at NASL, probably not there anymore though
What's the general rule of thumb on making a macro hatch? Should I try to secure 3 bases before tacking on a macro hatch, or are macro hatches only for when you feel you can't really secure a third base, so you need the extra hatch to make the push with enough units to claim a third?
zlatko said:
I haven't used them that much. Depending on the map you might as well slap one in some of the expansions. It'll work almost like a macro hatch and has the potential of becoming a base.
If you like to go crazy on the lings, then I think you can make one without feeling too bad. Or if you really feel that the opponent will not let you have a third or something.
zoukka said:
Sounds good.
Destiny just had my favorite moment ever on his stream. He was up against Deezer and trolled him so hard. First he was saying he'd PvP him for $200.00. The game was filled with hilarious moments though like random pausing, using his ultralisks to dance, ultras to cheer, then he finished it off with an infestor grabbing a probe during the final fight to use the probe to build a nexus in the heart of the fight.
Truly epic and hilarious.
Been lurking for a while and I finally decided to finally get into the multiplayer. I had been delaying doing my placement matches because of uni.
At first I went 0-2 but I finally won my third match. So excited even though it was against someone in bronze and I forgot to scout. Feels good to win. And I should've won my first match but a planetary fortress at his expo mindfucked me. Threw away my 50 supply lead away. Now I'm deciding whether I should end on a high note or just finish my placement matches.
At first I went 0-2 but I finally won my third match. So excited even though it was against someone in bronze and I forgot to scout. Feels good to win. And I should've won my first match but a planetary fortress at his expo mindfucked me. Threw away my 50 supply lead away.
Now I'm deciding whether I should end on a high note or just finish my placement matches.TheCrow said:Been lurking for a while and I finally decided to finally get into the multiplayer. I had been delaying doing my placement matches because of uni.
At first I went 0-2 but I finally won my third match. So excited even though it was against someone in bronze and I forgot to scout. Feels good to win. And I should've won my first match but a planetary fortress at his expo mindfucked me. Threw away my 50 supply lead away.
Get them out of the way man. The road to success is carved with hundreds upon hundreds of games. 5 are a kick in the bucket, and soon enough you'll lose track of your losses and just see the wins. You'll make progress, get an eventual promotion, and before you know it you'll wonder WTF your 5 placement matches even involved.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
zlatko said:
I imagine it got to the point where the Ravens/Vikings were killing all the observers and the mass banshees were killing everything else.
But regardless, you would have to avoid scouting or pressuring or the longest time to not see this build coming.
Moral of the story: Just 4-gate.
Pankaks said:
You had to see the game. The dude faked an all in with tank banshee marine, expanded, and then hit him after artosis went the standard colo/gateway ball. he did some decent scouting too. the mass banshees killed everything while the point defense drones stopped all the stalker damage. it was ridiculous
Yeah, actually ending up with a 3 game win streak and got placed into gold. My last match ended up being a base trade. Was so nervous but ended it after I noticed he only had 4 stalkers to my 30+ supply army. So far I only have that 3 rax build but I want to work on setting up a soft contain while expanding. Just in case I can't finish my opponent off. Looking forward to playing some more tomorrow night.zlatko said:Get them out of the way man. The road to success is carved with hundreds upon hundreds of games. 5 are a kick in the bucket, and soon enough you'll lose track of your losses and just see the wins. You'll make progress, get an eventual promotion, and before you know it you'll wonder WTF your 5 placement matches even involved.
btw: thanks to whoever posted that video for the 3 rax build. That pushed me to finally play online.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Incontrol being trolled is great.
nilbog21 said:
It was too funny. Especially Idra's last comment towards Deezer of, "You realize you'd never win a game if you weren't Protoss right?" and then just leaves the game.
Deezer was so shitty that game though. Idra went all in at the start with some roach play, and was about to quit, but then Deezer started to talk shit, so Greg was like fuck it I'll play risky to try and get back in. Took the gold on Xel Naga right away, and for the most part was able to rematch Deezer's economy, but was behind on upgrades.
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