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[Q8D3vil]

I don't think Zerg is overpowered, because Terran can do some stuff to keep Zerg from overrunning them, but with the larger maps that are almost always being chosen, it's real hard to keep Zerg from just dominating the map with muta play. From there it's easy for Zerg to win the macro game and get into their Infestor/Brood Lord combo which is near impossible to deal with.

yeah i think large maps were the biggest nerf to terran.

to be fair, terran can deal with late game infestor/broordlords but the thing is we won't have the eco to get the unit to for defending.

i'm sure all of this stuff be fixed in hots because WOL was developed with small maps in mind.

 

[ChronicleX]

No, actually I reacted to Devil, did not even say anything to Chronicle.

No, you reacted to me. I am the one who mentioned Zerg, Arnie mentioned Terran. But it doesn't matter, your all clueless and talking out your backside. Only one who has said anything "True" apart from myself in the last page is Panda.

 

[V_Arnold]

No, you reacted to me. I am the one who mentioned Zerg, Arnie mentioned Terran. But it doesn't matter, your all clueless and talking out your backside. Only one who has said anything "True" apart from myself in the last page is Panda.

Jeez, man. I even said his name on my comment, even if he only wanted Terran buff instead of zerg nerf

 

[Pandaman]

You reacted to Chronicle saying Zerg need to be nerfed, then started complaining about Ghosts without even knowing how much they actually cost:

what terran cares about minerals.

ghosts cost less than 50 energy worth of minerals, its freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

[Dooraven]

will never happen.

uhhhh July, Losira, Idra at MLG mass muta just destroys terran atm. Terran needs a way to deal with these. They need a significant buff to HSM or a air superiority fighter that can challenge mutas the way protoss has pheonix.

Either that or Magic Box needs to be removed so thors can actually be effective.

 

[StopMakingSense]

uhhhh July, Losira, Idra at MLG mass muta just destroys terran atm. Terran needs a way to deal with these. They need a significant buff to HSM or a air superiority fighter that can challenge mutas the way protoss has pheonix.

Either that or Magic Box needs to be removed so thors can actually be effective.

Clearly the response is mass Raven / HSM

 

[V_Arnold]

uhhhh July, Losira, Idra at MLG mass muta just destroys terran atm. Terran needs a way to deal with these. They need a significant buff to HSM or a air superiority fighter that can challenge mutas the way protoss has pheonix.

Either that or Magic Box needs to be removed so thors can actually be effective.

This is not how it works. Terran devotes all their resources into abusive anti-ground builds, zergs barely hold it, and their gas count is finally getting used. Removing magic box, huh. So Thors actually 3-shot 3000/3000 armies, right? So after abusing the hell out of the fact that you only focus on ground units, against ground units, you get to create an aoe-anti air repairable unit from the same building , right? Nope.

 

[Won]

I say give Thors AA rockets a conc shell upgrade! That will slow down those ugly birds!

 

[Pandaman]

uhhhh July, Losira, Idra at MLG mass muta just destroys terran atm. Terran needs a way to deal with these. They need a significant buff to HSM or a air superiority fighter that can challenge mutas the way protoss has pheonix.

Either that or Magic Box needs to be removed so thors can actually be effective.

yeah, thats funny and all, but it still wont happen. T baddies want a one unit counter to thousands worth of gas spent by a zerg, it wont happen.

make a 3k gas t army and see if z or p can deal with it easily. thors beat mutas for cost every time, but oh magic op has to be nerfed! my marines cant be everywhere at once! nerf muta! make the unit entirely useless!

 

[WedgeX]

yeah, thats funny and all, but it still wont happen. T baddies want a one unit counter to thousands worth of gas spent by a zerg, it wont happen.

make a 3k gas t army and see if z or p can deal with it easily. thors beat mutas for cost every time, but oh magic op has to be nerfed! my marines cant be everywhere at once! nerf muta! make the unit entirely useless!

Marines should have jet packs, like reapers. Just sayin.

Anyhow, Common, Lupe Fiasco, Nas and....Outkast...make a comeback on the ladder fun.

 

[Dooraven]

yeah, thats funny and all, but it still wont happen. T baddies want a one unit counter to thousands worth of gas spent by a zerg, it wont happen.

make a 3k gas t army and see if z or p can deal with it easily. thors beat mutas for cost every time, but oh magic op has to be nerfed! my marines cant be everywhere at once! nerf muta! make the unit entirely useless!

See that's the problem, Terran getting a 3k army is almost purely mech. Which if you scout properly you can easily deal with it by getting a much more mobile army because mech is so immobile and hard to reproduce and just macro with more bases because they can't harrras you.

I destroy Mech builds with my Stakler Chargelot Immortal armies, throw cheap replaceable units at Mech and you essentially win.

Zerg on the other hand is so mobile and is nearly impossible to actually pressure since zerglings actively deny harassment and when mutas are out it's the terran hiding in his base.

HSM buff so they actually hit the mutas would work.

 

[PhoenixDark]

yeah, thats funny and all, but it still wont happen. T baddies want a one unit counter to thousands worth of gas spent by a zerg, it wont happen.

make a 3k gas t army and see if z or p can deal with it easily. thors beat mutas for cost every time, but oh magic op has to be nerfed! my marines cant be everywhere at once! nerf muta! make the unit entirely useless!

Pastor Panda bringing the gospel to nerds

 

[WedgeX]

Glad I've seen Aylinato cannon rush so much.

Easy win!

 

[Pandaman]

See that's the problem, Terran getting a 3k army is almost purely mech. Which if you scout properly you can easily deal with it by getting a much more mobile army because mech is so immobile and hard to reproduce and just macro with more bases because they can't harrras you.

and 3k muta dies to any large mechish ball like wet paper mache. so zerg either wins by whittling down t enough before the mech push and risking a bad engagement or gets off muta like its infested with the plague.

I destroy Mech builds with my Stakler Immortal armies, throw units at Mech and you essentially win.

... thats nice. zerg aren't protoss, our only anti armour unit is a tier 3 melee after we have our fun being mobile, we aren't still in a strong position to fight mech straight up. why do you think zergs cut muta for infestor whenever they see well timed thor? its not because magic box is too strong, thats for sure.

Zerg on the other hand is so mobile and is nearly impossible to actually pressure since zerglings actively deny harassment and when mutas are out it's the terran hiding in his base.

you should probably play some zerg. or tell that to sheth, who just got picked apart by drop play like he was just out of plat league despite being on muta/ling.

HSM buff so they actually hit the mutas would work.

yea, lets make a 2 radius 100 instant damage spell hit 125 health units consistently, thus making the bulk of the zergs army worthless for the 6 minutes it would take to regenerate or just have the mutas fight and lose 1:1 against unstimmed marines. that's not ridiculous at all.

 

[WedgeX]

I forgot how much fun people are when laddering.

"I'm silver league, but stuck at #1 despite beating high diamonds!"

Kills my scout with cannons, thinks he's clever.

My 3rax push hits.

"OMFG"

"Cancelled warpgate when it was almost done"

"I could've defended that!"

"F$% this shit"

*rage quits*

 

[Pandaman]

I forgot how much fun people are when laddering.

"I'm silver league, but stuck at #1 despite beating high diamonds!"

Kills my scout with cannons, thinks he's clever.

My 3rax push hits.

"OMFG"

"Cancelled warpgate when it was almost done"

"I could've defended that!"

"F$% this shit"

*rage quits*

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a173/WedgeXXV/sogood.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]
huh?

 

[WedgeX]

huh?

Yeah.

He had cannons. At his base.

When my scout was coming out of his base, when I had ~12-14 supply.

Brilliant.

 

[Dooraven]

and 3k muta dies to any large mechish ball like wet paper mache. so zerg either wins by whittling down t enough before the mech push and risking a bad engagement or gets off muta like its infested with the plague.

Right why exactly would you create 3k muta against a full mech terran? Why would you even engage a mech terran full on?. That is like attacking a protoss deathball and watching your units instantly melt.

... thats nice. zerg aren't protoss, our only anti armour unit is a tier 3 melee after we have our fun being mobile, we aren't still in a strong position to fight mech straight up. why do you think zergs cut muta for infestor whenever they see well timed thor? its not because magic box is too strong, thats for sure.

Except you know, a mech terran is too immobile to harrass you properly, which means you are free to expo everywhere, you're zerg you have easily time to tech up to Hive Tech and get broodlords and corrupters and ultras, banes, infestors etc.

you should probably play some zerg. or tell that to sheth, who just got picked apart by drop play like he was just out of plat league despite being on muta/ling.

I do play Zerg, though obviously not at GM level. Did he have any banelings? Also you should comment on the numerous other games where zergs have sucessfully prevented those attacks with minimal losses instead of cherry picking results, since maybe sheth can't deal with multiple attacks properly.

yea, lets make a 2 radius 100 instant damage spell hit 125 health units consistently, thus making the bulk of the zergs army worthless for the 6 minutes it would take to regenerate or just have the mutas fight and lose 1:1 against unstimmed marines. that's not ridiculous at all.

Reduce the damage of it then? Honestly what do you expect the terran to do against mass mutas? They need an effective way to deal with mutas, because looking at MLG it's just seems to be an instant win vs Terran once a critical mass of mutas are up.

 

[Pandaman]

Right why exactly would you create 3k muta against a full mech terran? Why would you even engage a mech terran full on?. That is like attacking a protoss deathball and watching your units instantly melt.

you're this close to discovering that this is a multiplayer strategy game. now you just have to figure out that zerg aren't the only ones who can scout techpaths and respond to them.

Except you know, a mech terran is too immobile to harrass you properly, which means you are free to expo everywhere, you're zerg you have easily time to tech up to Hive Tech and get broodlords and corrupters and ultras, banes, infestors etc.

except mech typically opens blueflame, so you cant take a third without waiting for muta otherwise you have zero map control. zerg isnt free to expo everywhere and you've already forgotten that zerg wont be going muta vs mech, so mechs immobility is not as big of a weakness relatively. mech can take thirds versus roach/infestor into brood base armies and the big mech punch pushes strongly against a relatively tight broodlord window. a terran that forces a cancel on a third and then goes home or a terran who techsnipe an infestation pit can go very far vs zerg.

you also have to remember that once the infestors are out, zerg losses alot of steam on muta based techswitches. committing to mech has a relatively cheap backtech advantage standard bio does not.

I do play Zerg, though obviously not at GM level. Did he have any banelings?

ofcourse.

Also you should comment on the numerous other games where zergs have sucessfully prevented those attacks with minimal losses instead of cherry picking results

once again, you're so close to discovering that this is a multiplayer strategy game and not rock paper scissors.

since maybe sheth can't deal with multiple attacks properly.

typically, pro players dont do bad builds just on the offchance that their opponent is bad at dealing with it. MMA was comfortable dropping vs muta because he's one of the few terrans who has figured out spires take a long time to build.

Reduce the damage of it then? Honestly what do you expect the terran to do against mass mutas? They need an effective way to deal with mutas, because looking at MLG it's just seems to be an instant win vs Terran once a critical mass of mutas are up.

marine/thor is fine versus muta, they represent two of mutas strongest hardcounters. turrets are cheap and have dps to dissuade early harass. good positioning, good timings and good play wins.

mass muta is a problem most people solve by diamond league, its strong but its never been too strong. consider the people who have been losing. select, tlo, gretorp moonan, etc. they're all dropping games in other matchups too. its just a bad weekend for some t players. MMA is doing just as well as idra/naniwa. fenix, thorzain, sjow, major are all 50% or better

 

[BigAT]

you should probably play some zerg. or tell that to sheth, who just got picked apart by drop play like he was just out of plat league despite being on muta/ling.

Even Platinum players remember to build a Spawning Pool.

 

[Yoshichan]

Well guys, I dunno how it happened but me and my 2v2 partner went from this:

to this tonight:

enjoy GAF.

 

[Pandaman]

10:9, you came out ahead.

seems terrible.

---

they look, mma is doing drop play vs julyzerg! i guess july has bad control too.
its almost like the better player wins, weird.

idra and july get 2-0'd by terrans while going muta, your argument is invalid.

 

[Deadly]

they look, mma is doing drop play vs julyzerg! i guess july has bad control too.
its almost like the better player wins, weird.

idra and july get 2-0'd by terrans while going muta, your argument is invalid.

Though if July had gotten some infestors you gotta admit he'd have won right? But alas that wasn't the case.

 

[Narag]

That stuffed cow is adorable.

 

[Hazaro]

Well guys, I dunno how it happened but me and my 2v2 partner went from this:

enjoy GAF.

I dunno man, looks like you are still 150 points up or something.
We should play sometime.

 

[Pandaman]

Though if July had gotten some infestors you gotta admit he'd have won right? But alas that wasn't the case.

no?

 

[Deadly]

no?

It would have prevented the marines from spreading and the baneling drops would have wrecked them

 

[Pandaman]

It would have prevented the marines from spreading and the baneling drops would have wrecked them

july wasnt exaclty floating a boatload of gas, he couldnt have gotten infestors without sacrificing those bane numbers or muta [which he didnt have much of either]. so while he might have cleaned up those pushes, he'd have very little to threaten with and the drops would be hurting him even more.

 

[Deadly]

july wasnt exaclty floating a boatload of gas, he couldnt have gotten infestors without sacrificing those bane numbers or muta [which he didnt have much of either]. so while he might have cleaned up those pushes, he'd have very little to threaten with and the drops would be hurting him even more.

Ah yeah true true

 

[kmc]

Well guys, I dunno how it happened but me and my 2v2 partner went from this:



to this tonight:

as someone who has played over 2500 team games,i can tell you that that's completely normal. haha

 

[ChronicleX]

yeah, thats funny and all, but it still wont happen. T baddies want a one unit counter to thousands worth of gas spent by a zerg, it wont happen

That reminds me, has anyone seen that new Marvel superhero movie based on a character and universe inspired by Norse mythology?

 

[Pandaman]

That reminds me, has anyone seen that new Marvel superhero movie based on a character and universe inspired by Norse mythology?

yea... what was it, odin? there's a campaign exclusive unit that shares the name. its easy to miss though.

 

[ChronicleX]

yea... what was it, odin? there's a campaign exclusive unit that shares the name. its easy to miss though.

Maybe they'll add it in Heart of the Swarm. I mean I saw the trailer and I saw TONS of new units in it. I mean there were Ghosts, Battlecruisers, Vikings, and a Mecha piloted by Arnie himself! I wonder what that thing does, sounds badass. I just hope at least 1 of them new units is good vs Muta's. I mean WTF am I supposed to do as Terran if I can't spam tank marine!? TELL ME!!

 

[Pandaman]

Maybe they'll add it in Heart of the Swarm. I mean I saw the trailer and I saw TONS of new units in it. I mean there were Ghosts, Battlecruisers, Vikings, and a Mecha piloted by Arnie himself! I wonder what that thing does, sounds badass. I just hope at least 1 of them new units is good vs Muta's. I mean WTF am I supposed to do as Terran if I can't spam tank marine!? TELL ME!!

i know man, if only they had AA like protoss, with those amazing 3 range splashing archons and 2star chrono phoenix while still going blink/dt/colli off 2 base.

 

[ChronicleX]

i know man, if only they had AA like protoss, with those amazing 3 range splashing archons and 2star chrono phoenix while still going blink/dt/colli off 2 base.

Oh don't get me started on Archons. Fuckin OP units. 2 Range was bad enough but since the buff to 3 range they can actually hit Mutalisks! Fuck that shit man, OP as hell. Why can't Terran have a unit like that? Fuckin sucks.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

You guys resort to that crap because you know Terran mech is ridiculously awful and all the evidence is building in the results from the GSL and MLG tournaments.

And don't get me started about Terran air against Zerg...that's not even close to a fair fight.

 

[Pandaman]

You guys resort to that crap because you know Terran mech is ridiculously awful and all the evidence is building in the results from the GSL and MLG tournaments.

that evidence being a result of 3 seeded players being out of their paygrade and getting raped and a 4th having a bad weekend.

DDE beat idra in the tactic3D finals less than a week ago and already that's forgotten.

And don't get me started about Terran air against Zerg...that's not even close to a fair fight.

lol. 2 port banshee pants pro zergs all the time, i fear for the day terran air becomes accessible as a midgame.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

lol. 2 port banshee pants pro zergs all the time, i fear for the day terran air becomes accessible as a midgame.

It beats ANYBODY who doesn't prepare for it. That's not exclusive to Zerg. Zerg players are just the most stubborn about static defense, so yeah, they get beat by in more than most. At least spore crawlers can chase away banshees. You have a few mutas and they just laugh at turrets and cannons.

IdrA played horribly against DDE and DDE was on a hot streak anyway.

My flight to E3 leaves in 4 1/2 hours. I should be asleep. Stupid SC2...

 

[Pandaman]

It beats ANYBODY who doesn't prepare for it. That's not exclusive to Zerg. Zerg players are just the most stubborn about static defense, so yeah, they get beat by in more than most. At least spore crawlers can chase away banshees. You have a few mutas and they just laugh at turrets and cannons.

by laugh, you mean 'die to having lost more resources in units than the defense costs and also retarding your harass to the point where its trivial to defend', then i whole heartedly agree.

your air forces mutalisks as the only mobile unit comp counter. mutalisks being a unit hardcountered by back and horizontal teching. so yea, everyone should be happy it has accessibility issues.

 

[Holden]

panda, 1v1 obs? =p

 

[Pandaman]

panda, 1v1 obs? =p

i dont want to sleep through mlg again, so no. bed.

 

[Holden]

1 or 2 games ?

 

[cdyhybrid]

Cella casting Idra vs. MC on his stream

Edit: Calling Idra chobo a lot, hahaha

 

[Lace]

You guys resort to that crap because you know Terran mech is ridiculously awful and all the evidence is building in the results from the GSL and MLG tournaments.

And don't get me started about Terran air against Zerg...that's not even close to a fair fight.

The only people I see QQ about something like mutas are lower level players who don't know how to distribute their minerals/gas efficiently. I watch too many Terran players mass marines and think they have the end all strategy, then get destroyed by banelings/mutas and rage quit based on overpowered Zerg units. It's obvious that Zerg player scouted, and built hard counters to your army composition. If you had scanned and saw what tech the Zerg player was hatching you could've built Thors and easily destroyed any air army. Mass Muta's are definitely not a win all strategy, and imo leave the Zerg open for any strong ground push on their main.

 

[zoukka]

lol people see Idra humiliating a few players and Mutas are OP again Oh you SC community...

 

[Hazaro]

The only people I see QQ about something like mutas are lower level players who don't know how to distribute their minerals/gas efficiently. I watch too many Terran players mass marines and think they have the end all strategy, then get destroyed by banelings/mutas and rage quit based on overpowered Zerg units. It's obvious that Zerg player scouted, and built hard counters to your army composition. If you had scanned and saw what tech the Zerg player was hatching you could've built Thors and easily destroyed any air army. Mass Muta's are definitely not a win all strategy, and imo leave the Zerg open for any strong ground push on their main.

Thors are bad vs Mutas. They barely break even in cost efficiency and take up factory (tank) time.

lol people see Idra humiliating a few players and Mutas are OP again Oh you SC community...

Mutas were always OP

 

[zoukka]

Thors are bad vs Mutas. They barely break even in cost efficiency and take up factory (tank) time.

Yes a single unit that forces awkward formation on your muta harass sure is bad.

Mutas were always OP

Only in the eyes of tortoises.

 

[Slavik81]

Cella's English is amazing. I could listen to him all day.

 

[Lace]

Thors are bad vs Mutas. They barely break even in cost efficiency and take up factory (tank) time.

Mutas were always OP

Last time I checked a thor and a few turrents surrounding it isn't something I like to fly my mutas into. They are meant for harass, allowing any zerg to mass them means there's something wrong with how you handle the game. If I mass air I won't have any decent ground army... perfect for facerolling a zerg no?

 

[mescalineeyes]

cella is the biggest troll in the world he's worse than John.