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Team Fortress 2 Official PC Thread. SO. WORTH. IT.

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D

Davidion

Member
PillowKnight said:
All you "Use CB to jump guys" are getting a bit ahead of yourselves. Both Soldier/demo are put in a weakened position whenever they jump. It's also important to look at the difference between a pyro ambush and a soldier/demo ambush. The pyro's lack of reload makes his ambush all the more deadly-- a soldier won't take down half a team with an ambush; but a pyro sure will. Demos on the other hand possibly could, but their lack of melee ability makes them easy targets on the front lines.

It is true that the pyro has a harder time ambushing people. But when you consider the strength of ambushes, making ambushes accessible to the pyro would break the game.
Click to expand...

And that's fine, I certainly don't care to have any mobility boosts for the pyro be as excessive as those for the soldier or the demo. However, a small boost would be good to at least nudge up some of the just-of-reach ledges; I fail to see how that would be unreasonable.

And I'm sorry, but while the backburner is powerful, the whole "wipe out half their team in one shot" scenario really doesn't come into play as much as people make them out to.

Giganticus said:
Backburner is still able to do the "totally rape everyone near the cart" thing, and can still do the classic ambushes. The only thing this nerf removes is their ability to run STRAIGHT AT ENEMIES.

And yeah, pyros don't need a movement ability. They are silent and move at normal speed, able to catch up to/close down everyone except medics and scouts. They can get themselves into ambush positions easily enough. Hell, if I can flank and ambush other teams as a solo heavy with my slow run speed, then a pyro definitely can.
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I'd love to NOT run straight at enemies. However as mentioned, on many maps, particularly the more popular ones, there often aren't options to do so.

And the "silent" movement and catching up bit are absolute non-issues. More than half of the remaining classes can either out run the pyro or have enough firepower to stop/juggle him. Hell, with the Blutsaugher even a medic can hold off a pyro while retreating save for at point blank range. I'd love to have a shotgun but opting for a long range tactical option doesn't always let you have that on hand.

I don't miss the extra hit points at all, but I've always advocated providing the pyro with a little extra maneuverability.
 
W

Won

Member
Davidion said:
One nerf and the spy starts getting uppity. *squints eyes*
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Pff.....the amount of Pyros was just silly anyway. Good nerf!

Davidion said:
And that's fine, I certainly don't care to have any mobility boosts for the pyro be as excessive as those for the soldier or the demo. However, a small boost would be good to at least nudge up some of the just-of-reach ledges; I fail to see how that would be unreasonable.

And I'm sorry, but while the backburner is powerful, the whole "wipe out half their team in one shot" scenario really doesn't come into play as much as people make them out to.
Click to expand...

Thing is...Valve wants to avoid this stuff. They don't want that every class has a way to "rocket/grenade jump". The sticky jump probably was already pushing it.
 
D

Davidion

Member
Won said:
Pff.....the amount of Pyros was just silly anyway. Good nerf!



Thing is...Valve wants to avoid this stuff. They don't want that every class has a way to "rocket/grenade jump". The sticky jump probably was already pushing it.
Click to expand...

Eh, I'd just like *some* manner of mobility improvement. Slightly faster speed, jump booster, something anything. It doesn't have to be drastic at all; I'm not looking to break the class; hell, I welcome the HP nerf.
 
W

Won

Member
Davidion said:
Eh, I'd just like *some* manner of mobility improvement. Slightly faster speed, jump booster, something anything. It doesn't have to be drastic at all; I'm not looking to break the class; hell, I welcome the HP nerf.
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Well I don't really get the speed complaints. The Pyro is already faster than Heavy/Soldier/Demoman. That are all combat classes excluding the Scout.

The rest with Pyro speed falls more into support and do you really want that no class has a chance to escape, if they see you coming? Most of them don't have the means to fight of a Pyro.
 
T

Twig

Banned
Won said:
Pff.....the amount of Pyros was just silly anyway. Good nerf!



Thing is...Valve wants to avoid this stuff. They don't want that every class has a way to "rocket/grenade jump". The sticky jump probably was already pushing it.
Click to expand...
I dunno about that.

Demoman has less health than the soldier, and while the stick certainly gives more air, it also causes much more damage. Both initial and fall, if you don't have a lot of practice.

Rocket jumping, in comparison, is relatively safe.

I wouldn't mind the pyro getting a TINY "rocket jump." Just a little boost. Plus the CB uses a much higher ratio of ammo than either a single sticky bomb or a single rocket.

O:
 
D

Doytch

Member
I'd prefer the Pyro doesn't get any boost jumps. It would have to be small, and I can't really think of many places where it would be useful. Especially if you know all the little shortcuts and ledges already.
 
F

firex

Member
Won said:
What? Did you just complain about the Backburner crits AND the compression blast? Come on now.....maybe you are doing something wrong?
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considering I'm basically top 3 in points/mvp in a round when I play pyro unless it's a map I just don't know well... no? I'm just saying compression blast takes out the fun of "reflect a rocket to kill a soldier who thinks he's got you!" but it's still fun to juggle them sometimes, and it isn't nearly as rewarding as it could be. If it reflected stuff back faster that would be cool.

Backburner crits really are terrible for the most part because an average heavy/soldier turns around as soon as they're getting blasted by it, and it's not like a backstab where it will kill them no matter their health. I don't want a backstab, but it's not as great as it sounds because it's basically just going to result in faster kills on low HP classes that you can already melt, and a heavy will be at 150 health instead of 270 when you burn through his 450 health after killing his medic. Plus you have to be squarely behind them compared to how you can cheat a little bit to a side with spy backstabs. Give it the old crit range back and it might be worth it, maybe... but I'll take rocket bouncing/sticky clearing over the backburner after Valve already nerfed its defining feature, and now took away its health bonus.
 
S

SyNapSe

Member
Yeah the BB nerf seems a bit strong. Perhaps, they should have halved the hps given. I'm almost certain to switch back to regular now again for the blast. I was tempted before because it's so useful in a lot of situations.
 
G

Grifter

Member
Damnit, you guys convinced me to farm those last medic achievements and now my stats are all sorts of screwy. Any reset mechanism?
 
E

exarkun

Member
Ok guys, I just bought the game since I've seen how in love with it so many people on GAF is. I watched alot of the vids in the OP and read some comments but dont want to go through all of the thread to find some specific information.

Can anyone tell me how viable it is to play a spy? If anyone does, can they give me some tips. And finally, is spy a character that is chosen a lot?
 
D

Doytch

Member
exarkun said:
Ok guys, I just bought the game since I've seen how in love with it so many people on GAF is. I watched alot of the vids in the OP and read some comments but dont want to go through all of the thread to find some specific information.

Can anyone tell me how viable it is to play a spy? If anyone does, can they give me some tips. And finally, is spy a character that is chosen a lot?
Click to expand...

Check pages 235/236. Someone else just started out and theres a bunch of tips there.
 
V

Vlad

Member
exarkun said:
Ok guys, I just bought the game since I've seen how in love with it so many people on GAF is. I watched alot of the vids in the OP and read some comments but dont want to go through all of the thread to find some specific information.

Can anyone tell me how viable it is to play a spy? If anyone does, can they give me some tips. And finally, is spy a character that is chosen a lot?
Click to expand...

I'd really recommend not trying to start out as a spy. Spies really rely on knowing the maps well and knowing how other characters might act. They're not really super-common, as they act more as a surgical strike/general annoyance class. They're not the all-purpose attackers that the Soldier/Heavy/Demoman is, and I've found them to be more useful once in a while. It's really best to let the other team become complacent about looking for spies, then switch over to one. If you're a spy all the time, the people you're fighting against will be used to you poking around in their base and you'll probably get gunned down as soon as you show your disguised face.
 
B

bananabread

Member
I got 52 points in one round on Goldrush map 3 as Red, switching to Pyro after getting rolled hardcore for the first two maps.

Next closest on my team was my medic who got like 33 or something.

Not really noticing a nerf, but I've been an advocate of the Leafblower since the beginning.

People whinging about Pyro being "situational" now that they can't just tank through shit and have to play properly should try playing Scout sometime as there are entire maps where you'd serve your team better by playing a different, more spam capable class (namely dustbowl and goldrush 3rd maps, in fact all of dustbowl on BLU).

Scout really needs something similar to the airblower in his update that doesn't increase his combat power drastically but at least gives him something to do in the "narrow corridor spamspamspam" sections of some maps. At least the Pyro can get an uber and go cause havoc in those sections, as well as blow rockets and bombs away, so it's not totally pointless having one on your team. Scouts just sort of jump around hoping they don't die, perform spy cleanup, and wait for the sentries to go down, which isn't anywhere near as useful as another source of rockets flying toward the enemy position or another medic.
 
V

Volcynika

Member
Tonight was pretty epic guys. Me, Java, Fallengorn, Dave, etc had some great close matches. Highlights for me:

-Dustbowl map, I had about a 30-40ish point lead on everyone since I sniped to hell and back
-Defending of point B on GravelPit was crazy
-Goldrush defense on map 1 was FREAKIN EPIC.
 
G

Giganticus

Member
bananabread said:
I got 52 points in one round on Goldrush map 3 as Red, switching to Pyro after getting rolled hardcore for the first two maps.

Next closest on my team was my medic who got like 33 or something.

Not really noticing a nerf, but I've been an advocate of the Leafblower since the beginning.

People whinging about Pyro being "situational" now that they can't just tank through shit and have to play properly should try playing Scout sometime as there are entire maps where you'd serve your team better by playing a different, more spam capable class (namely dustbowl and goldrush 3rd maps, in fact all of dustbowl on BLU).

Scout really needs something similar to the airblower in his update that doesn't increase his combat power drastically but at least gives him something to do in the "narrow corridor spamspamspam" sections of some maps. At least the Pyro can get an uber and go cause havoc in those sections, as well as blow rockets and bombs away, so it's not totally pointless having one on your team. Scouts just sort of jump around hoping they don't die, perform spy cleanup, and wait for the sentries to go down, which isn't anywhere near as useful as another source of rockets flying toward the enemy position or another medic.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Scout is the least played class according to Valve's stats, and it's mainly (in my opinion) due to bad level design. Scouts need open areas with alternate routes that avoid Sentries. Dustbowl and Goldrush are anything but open.
 
B

bananabread

Member
Giganticus said:
Exactly. Scout is the least played class according to Valve's stats, and it's mainly (in my opinion) due to bad level design. Scouts need open areas with alternate routes that avoid Sentries. Dustbowl and Goldrush are anything but open.
Click to expand...

Those are my two favourite maps, it sucks having my second favourite class (behind engy) be useless on them. Some sort of siege-support roll is needed.

I've heard suggestions that the scout should replace his pistol with a baseball which you can send thundering towards the enemy (either by pitching or batting it) that does significant damage to sentries/stationary targets (after a long windup for balance, of course). Personally I think it's an awesome idea but it might be too role-changing for Valve to want to implement.
 
F

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
Volcynika said:
Tonight was pretty epic guys. Me, Java, Fallengorn, Dave, etc had some great close matches. Highlights for me:

-Dustbowl map, I had about a 30-40ish point lead on everyone since I sniped to hell and back
-Defending of point B on GravelPit was crazy
-Goldrush defense on map 1 was FREAKIN EPIC.
Click to expand...
That was insane. One of the longest, epic overtimes I've played.
 
D

Davidion

Member
Volcynika said:
Tonight was pretty epic guys. Me, Java, Fallengorn, Dave, etc had some great close matches. Highlights for me:

-Dustbowl map, I had about a 30-40ish point lead on everyone since I sniped to hell and back
-Defending of point B on GravelPit was crazy
-Goldrush defense on map 1 was FREAKIN EPIC.
Click to expand...

I missed le epic gravel pit game? D:

Yeah the teams relatively well balanced the whole night through; not sure if that's just cuz we all sucked though. :x

I've been finding that I do well to start and then my game just gradually deteriorating throughout the night. Kind of bothersome.
 
F

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
Davidion said:
I missed le epic gravel pit game? D:

Yeah the teams relatively well balanced the whole night through; not sure if that's just cuz we all sucked though. :x
Click to expand...
Also we were playing on a 24+ person server, which turns most every game into a stalemate.
I've been finding that I do well to start and then my game just gradually deteriorating throughout the night. Kind of bothersome.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty much the same way. After maybe a couple of rounds my skill starts to drop and levels off. Sometimes I'll get a second wind and start mowing people down.
 
P

PillowKnight

Member
So I was just looking through my cXg stats, and found something really cool. As it turns out, hl stats tracks your kills/deaths and creates a map of them, it even tracks suicides and head shots.

mapstatsphp.jpg
 
V

Volcynika

Member
PillowKnight said:
So I was just looking through my cXg stats, and found something really cool. As it turns out, hl stats tracks your kills/deaths and creates a map of them, it even tracks suicides and head shots.
Click to expand...

Ooo, how do I get to that?
 
J

JavaMava

Member
This is going to be a stupid question, but how do I find the Neogaf server? I ordered them alphabetically and still couldn't find it under Official ...... dadada ...... ect
 
F

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
JavaMava said:
This is going to be a stupid question, but how do I find the Neogaf server? I ordered them alphabetically and still couldn't find it under Official ...... dadada ...... ect
Click to expand...
Just add the ip to favorites: 8.9.8.54:27015
 
J

Javaman

Member
fallengorn said:
That was insane. One of the longest, epic overtimes I've played.
Click to expand...


:lol Yeah, I've never seen anything quite like that. It went on for a good 3 or more minutes. Everyone was coming in gigantic waves since everyone was being destroyed closely together. It kept jumping up to 10 capturers and back down to almost all red. Total meyham.
Fortunately we still won since they only had 2 1/2 minutes to protect "C" but their first rush was pretty crazy too.
 
J

Javaman

Member
Davidion said:
I missed le epic gravel pit game? D:

Yeah the teams relatively well balanced the whole night through; not sure if that's just cuz we all sucked though. :x

I've been finding that I do well to start and then my game just gradually deteriorating throughout the night. Kind of bothersome.
Click to expand...

Wierdly balanced. We played 3 rounds of Goldrush and each team could only get a single cap. After that Dustbowl was pretty close too with us losing 1-3 after 3 rounds. I wonder if there is some type of handicap mod running on that server?
 
1

1-D_FTW

Member
PillowKnight said:
All you "Use CB to jump guys" are getting a bit ahead of yourselves. Both Soldier/demo are put in a weakened position whenever they jump. It's also important to look at the difference between a pyro ambush and a soldier/demo ambush. The pyro's lack of reload makes his ambush all the more deadly-- a soldier won't take down half a team with an ambush; but a pyro sure will. Demos on the other hand possibly could, but their lack of melee ability makes them easy targets on the front lines.

It is true that the pyro has a harder time ambushing people. But when you consider the strength of ambushes, making ambushes accessible to the pyro would break the game.
Click to expand...

Also, if you you do any of your soldier ambushing in close, the splash damage does almost as much damage to yourself as the enemy you're shooting at.

It's true I haven't really been doing much gaming the last month, but it seems to me that splash reduction has a massive influence on soldier (especially since the much needed patch gives kills to suiciders and fixes the pyro/soldier issue.) Again, I've only played a couple hours soldier post patch, but I'm curious what the soldier's supposed to do. Long range fighting is nerfed with damage reduction and slow moving rockets (that anyone should be able to see and avoid) and close combat tends to do 1:1 damage.
 
F

firex

Member
I wish the CB would knock stickies back better. or maybe I just need to aim it better, but it seems like it barely moves them compared to every other sticky clearing method.

although, it is fun using it on a sticky in the air, since it'll convert those. and the CB pretty much neutralizes the grenade launcher (not as much the rocket launcher except at a range where it's not a big deal anyway).
 
P

PillowKnight

Member
1-D_FTW said:
Also, if you you do any of your soldier ambushing in close, the splash damage does almost as much damage to yourself as the enemy you're shooting at.

It's true I haven't really been doing much gaming the last month, but it seems to me that splash reduction has a massive influence on soldier (especially since the much needed patch gives kills to suiciders and fixes the pyro/soldier issue.) Again, I've only played a couple hours soldier post patch, but I'm curious what the soldier's supposed to do. Long range fighting is nerfed with damage reduction and slow moving rockets (that anyone should be able to see and avoid) and close combat tends to do 1:1 damage.
Click to expand...
Soldiers still beat every class one on one, they're still a versatile killing machine. The only nerf that has truly hurt them is the ammo nerf, but that only slightly reduces his roaming range. It's true that now it's all the more important to make sure you don't hurt yourself, but this can be done with only a minor change in play style.

I wish the CB would knock stickies back better. or maybe I just need to aim it better, but it seems like it barely moves them compared to every other sticky clearing method.
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It does knock them back, at least as far as rockets do.

Oh and Doytch, wth kind of magic are you pulling off in Gold rush 1-1?
 
D

Doytch

Member
PillowKnight said:
Oh and Doytch, wth kind of magic are you pulling off in Gold rush 1-1?
Click to expand...

Not sentries, as Sciz said. From the defending POV, I jump up onto the left balcony from the bridge a lot. Still confuses and catches a lot of people off guard. Especially if an engie set up an sg at the first cap. And if nothing's happening there, I run through the house up to the right balcony.
 
J

Javaman

Member
Volcynika said:
It was fun defending the opposing team's flag room better than they could, last night on Turbine!
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LOL yeah. We had it under control for quite a long time. It sucked waiting for the intel to return to the room. Everyone kept touching it right in front of their spawn instead of letting us take it the easy way. You made the first run after it returned didn't you? Techkno and I held the room until you capped it and he hightailed it back for the winning cap.

It was hilarious defending in the tunnel of Goldrush right at CP2-1. A red demoman had laid a bunch of sticky bombs right at the center of the T intersection (cp2-1) and we had two teams of medics and defenders covering both hallways. The two defending groups were looking at each other with the stickies between us and wondering who would be the first to knock them under the others' feet. The same thing happened later on in Granary at CP4. Medics and heavies on both sides hiding around the corner, but this time the goober heavy shot the stickies off the point, right underneath us.
 
V

Volcynika

Member
Javaman said:
LOL yeah. We had it under control for quite a long time. It sucked waiting for the intel to return to the room. Everyone kept touching it right in front of their spawn instead of letting us take it the easy way. You made the first run after it returned didn't you? Techkno and I held the room until you capped it and he hightailed it back for the winning cap.

It was hilarious defending in the tunnel of Goldrush right at CP2-1. A red demoman had laid a bunch of sticky bombs right at the center of the T intersection (cp2-1) and we had two teams of medics and defenders covering both hallways. The two defending groups were looking at each other with the stickies between us and wondering who would be the first to knock them under the others' feet. The same thing happened later on in Granary at CP4. Medics and heavies on both sides hiding around the corner, but this time the goober heavy shot the stickies off the point, right underneath us.
Click to expand...

1. Yeah, I accidentally picked it up, since a scout would've been better since soldier moves sooooo slowly.

2. Yeah I remember that, me and you were like "HEY WHOA HEY WHOA DONT DO THAT" :lol
 
C

Capndrake

Member
If alltalk is on, everybody can hear everything said by everybody, even if you're dead. If alltalk is off then you don't hear voice chat when dead.
 
J

Javaman

Member
Capndrake said:
If alltalk is on, everybody can hear everything said by everybody, even if you're dead. If alltalk is off then you don't hear voice chat when dead.
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I'm pretty sure you can hear living people on your team and people on both teams who are dead while you are also dead. (With all-talk off)
 
C

Capndrake

Member
Javaman said:
I'm pretty sure you can hear living people on your team and people on both teams who are dead while you are also dead. (With all-talk off)
Click to expand...
Err, oops, I meant if you're alive you can't hear people who are dead.
 
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