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The Black Culture Thread |OT8| Hands Up, Don't Shoot

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D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Angelus Errare said:
My only pet peeve with BCT is when we have some ignorance about race/women whatever in OT…some people never post in those threads yet talk in BCT.

It's the internet, they're not going to hurt you. Engage in discussion, talking behind their backs isn't going to change their viewpoints.
Click to expand...

and its not like people don't ever change their opinions either. i've heard that a bunch today

it happens. it happens slow. it might not even be the person you're quoting either. but if you don't say shit, then obviously nothing is going to happen

also, i can't be the go-to person to call people out anymore. its easy when its ripclawe or measley or something like that, but i'm still sick about how i had to destroy crush dance like i did
 
O

Order

Member
Mortemis said:
Yo damn, I remember just seeing OT 13 pop up and going "that went by quick", they already at OT 14?

Man I'm a smash fan and like every bit of news, but that thread is just something else.
Click to expand...

They're already on page 34. Leaks make people crazy man.
 
M

MorisUkunRasik

Member
Angelus Errare said:
My only pet peeve with BCT is when we have some ignorance about race/women whatever in OT…some people never post in those threads yet talk in BCT.

It's the internet, they're not going to hurt you. Engage in discussion, talking behind their backs isn't going to change their viewpoints.
Click to expand...

DY brought that up earlier.
 
M

Mortemis

Banned
Order said:
They're already on page 34. Leaks make people crazy man.
Click to expand...

I couldn't even keep up if I wanted to, I love all this new shit but I don't even know what to talk about for that much. They are a hyped fanbase, that's for damn sure.

I don't think I've ever tried to keep up with huge hype threads like that. For Destiny I dropped by that thread occasionally to say what I thought about it, but could never stick around for all the convos.
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
DY_nasty said:
and its not like people don't ever change their opinions either. i've heard that a bunch today

it happens. it happens slow. it might not even be the person you're quoting either. but if you don't say shit, then obviously nothing is going to happen

also, i can't be the go-to person to call people out anymore. its easy when its ripclawe or measley or something like that, but i'm still sick about how i had to destroy crush dance like i did
Click to expand...

I want to agree with this. Though there is a difference between genuine ignorance and straight up racists. I have had discussions with people on GAF where they will understand why what they had said previously is wrong. Sometimes it'll be quick, other times it will take drawn out discussion. But it helps if people are explaining why they're wrong.

Unless they're straight up racists who are all but saying "nigger." Those guys will need something more than discussion to change them.
 
I

ishibear

is a goddamn bear
We should all be willing to discuss these problems openly and even be willing to learn from each other. I know conflicting statements will happen and we're all not gonna always agree, but I don't like all that tension tbh. It feels better in here when we just talk things out without upsetting others.

I mean, if anyone's got questions about women's POV, GirlGaf is always willing to help you out. All we ask in return is for you to just listen.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
ishibear said:
We should all be willing to discuss these problems openly and even be willing to learn from each other. I know conflicting statements will happen and we're all not gonna always agree, but I don't like all that tension tbh. It feels better in here when we just talk things out without upsetting others.

I mean, if anyone's got questions about women's POV, GirlGaf is always willing to help you out. All we ask in return is for you to just listen.
Click to expand...

Musiq Soulchild
 
H

harSon

Banned
Angelus Errare said:
My only pet peeve with BCT is when we have some ignorance about race/women whatever in OT…some people never post in those threads yet talk in BCT.

It's the internet, they're not going to hurt you. Engage in discussion, talking behind their backs isn't going to change their viewpoints.
Click to expand...

Complaining takes a minute or two of effort and you're done, while engaging ignorance takes hours, if not more, and there's no end game. I can't really fault someone for not wanting to waste their time, because quite honestly, that's what they're doing at the end of the day. Yes, people can have their opinions reshaped on the internet, but the more common occurrence is doubling down on and perpetuating ignorance. If you think it's worth the time and effort to reach that small sliver of a percentage that are willing to let your words chip away at their wall of horse shit, then good on you, but I'm not going to sit here and fault someone who doesn't.

Also, I find it pretty funny that the glory days of BCT are compared to a barbershop, but the core complaint is the fact that people are talking shit behind people's backs without engaging the source head on Lol.
 
P

Prototype Viktor

Member
ReiGun said:
shocked-troy-walks-into-fire-with-pizza-community.gif


Well, it was a fun 8 OTs. Maybe Comic Gaf will take me back.
Click to expand...

come back when we remaster BCT as Non-White Hispanic Culture Thread
 
I

Infinite

Member
It makes no sense to me to let shit tip over like that. If you see something you don't like its best to call it out right there in a civil manner. If hypocrisy was such an issue why is the first time some of y'all saying something about it?
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Vermillion said:
I want to agree with this. Though there is a difference between genuine ignorance and straight up racists. I have had discussions with people on GAF where they will understand why what they had said previously is wrong. Sometimes it'll be quick, other times it will take drawn out discussion. But it helps if people are explaining why they're wrong.

Unless they're straight up racists who are all but saying "nigger." Those guys will need something more than discussion to change them.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

My stance on transgender issues made massive changes. Massive. All because of shidoshi having the patience to realize that changes don't happen in just a few days. I was ignorant as hell. And what she couldn't explain to me, dream, picked up on in a language that I could better understand. But I wouldn't have even been to that point, which was much further down the road, unless someone had the patience to sit there and be insulted by my ignorance with a smile in the first place. And if you look in the first OTs where we had no mods looming over every 'intrusion', you'd see it meant a lot of failure, embarrassment, and learning on all fronts. Change leaves you vulnerable. But its the internet - you'll be alright. The only real investment you make is time. And that's on both ends.

If you want to change people, that's the kind of stance you take. If you don't, then don't pretend that you're actually willing to change people.

Or you can just be a blunt object. Or pretend to be, since you aren't banning anyone anytime soon (and as someone who made an art of luring people into bans, the time is better spent actually trying to get to a middle ground because that person will just be back in a few weeks anyways).

So I won't hold it against people if they don't want to put that time in on that questionable and small return, but if you ain't - then you don't get to be as mad as the people that do.
 
R

ReiGun

Member
Infinite said:
It makes no sense to me to let shit tip over like that. If you see something you don't like its best to call it out right there in a civil manner. If hypocrisy was such an issue why is the first time some of y'all saying something about it?
Click to expand...

That's the thing: it isn't. It's come up before several times from multiple people. Nothing's changed, and I guess this was the day shit popped off.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Infinite said:
It makes no sense to me to let shit tip over like that. If you see something you don't like its best to call it out right there in a civil manner. If hypocrisy was such an issue why is the first time some of y'all saying something about it?
Click to expand...

breh

this shit came up OTs ago.

i'm like the last person around from back then still here to give a fuck apparently. cptmcblack, lebron, bay, urban scholar, topher, and a bunch of others already threw you all in the bushes
 
I

Infinite

Member
ReiGun said:
That's the thing: it isn't. It's come up before several times from multiple people. Nothing's changed, and I guess this was the day shit popped off.
Click to expand...
I see. It still seems tawdry to get mad at an opinion and then threaten to take your ball home. As a man I am constantly unlearning sexists bs that has been instilled in me since I was a boy. I'm always willing to listen to women and willing to learn. Like people have called me out on problematic shit I have said in this thread and I was honestly humbled and corrected on it never making the same mistake. Give people the benefit of the doubt.
 
O

Onemic

Member
DY_nasty said:
and its not like people don't ever change their opinions either. i've heard that a bunch today

it happens. it happens slow. it might not even be the person you're quoting either. but if you don't say shit, then obviously nothing is going to happen

also, i can't be the go-to person to call people out anymore. its easy when its ripclawe or measley or something like that, but i'm still sick about how i had to destroy crush dance like i did
Click to expand...

Mortemis said:
Yeah, we should be talking about this shit if we can. One of the criticisms about this thread is treating it like a safe haven from OT but it shouldn't be like that, we should be able to talk about these issues here, whether its about how this thread works or other issues.
Click to expand...

I wanna go in, but I'll hold my tongue. These pretty much sum up most of my thoughts on this.

End result is, everyone takes an L here.
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
DY_nasty said:
I disagree.

My stance on transgender issues made massive changes. Massive. All because of shidoshi having the patience to realize that changes don't happen in just a few days. I was ignorant as hell. And what she couldn't explain to me, dream, picked up on in a language that I could better understand. But I wouldn't have even been to that point, which was much further down the road, unless someone had the patience to sit there and be insulted by my ignorance with a smile in the first place. And if you look in the first OTs where we had no mods looming over every 'intrusion', you'd see it meant a lot of failure, embarrassment, and learning on all fronts. Change leaves you vulnerable. But its the internet - you'll be alright. The only real investment you make is time. And that's on both ends.

If you want to change people, that's the kind of stance you take. If you don't, then don't pretend that you're actually willing to change people.

Or you can just be a blunt object. Or pretend to be, since you aren't banning anyone anytime soon (and as someone who made an art of luring people into bans, the time is better spent actually trying to get to a middle ground because that person will just be back in a few weeks anyways).

So I won't hold it against people if they don't want to put that time in on that questionable and small return, but if you ain't - then you don't get to be as mad as the people that do.
Click to expand...

...Wait, I was agreeing with you. Sorry if I was unclear. I meant the actual racists like those who were instantly banned in the Michael Brown thread. I looked at their posts and completely ignored them, because I saw that they were just revelling in being trolls. And they were banned for that.

Engaging with ignorant people can very well be worth the time. I've had small successes with explaining to people why they're being insensitive, etc. That's also why I prefer that people explain how I'm being insensitive... not only for personal knowledge, but I can pass it on to others as well.

Infinite said:
I see. It still seems tawdry to get mad at an opinion and then threaten to take your ball home. As a man I am constantly unlearning sexists bs that has been instilled in me since I was a boy. I'm always willing to listen to women and willing to learn. Like people have called me out on problematic shit I have said in this thread and I was honestly humbled and corrected on it never making the same mistake. Give people the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...

This too. I grew up as a Republican and a Christian, listening to Rush Limbaugh and watching Hannity and Colmes. The last forum I frequented was GameFAQs. I've learned a lot since I entered college, and the fact that I am who I am today is insane, considering how I spent most of the rest of my life.

I'm still trying to learn things (and unlearn others), so when people choose not to tell me exactly what I said that was wrong, it's frustrating.
 
T

Trey

Member
Not even joking but I think smoking weed for the first time was my largest lesson in empathy. I got way too high and started having panic attacks, slurred speech, loss of motor control, the works. It was the first time in my life that my mind hurt. Shit was frightening. I came out the other side of that experience with new respect for the fact that so much of who we are is outside of our direct control.

And that what someone describes to you might not make sense to you, but it makes absolute sense to them. Different experiences produce different lives and different minds. And we have a powerful attribute(s) imbued in us that allows people to come together and share these experiences with one another: empathy and understanding.

So nowadays I stay away from trying to tell people what they do or do not know. There are more effective ways to debate.
 
H

harSon

Banned
Trey said:
Not even joking but I think smoking weed for the first time was my largest lesson in empathy. I got way too high and started having panic attacks, slurred speech, loss of motor control, the works. It was the first time in my life that my mind hurt. Shit was frightening. I came out the other side of that experience with new respect for the fact that so much of who we are is outside of our direct control.

And that what someone describes to you might not make sense to you, but it makes absolute sense to them. Different experiences produce different lives and different minds. And we have a powerful attribute(s) imbued in us that allows people to come together and share these experiences with one another: empathy and understanding.

So nowadays I stay away from trying to tell people what they do or do not know. There are more effective ways to debate.
Click to expand...

That's one thing we could all learn. From what I've seen, there's a lot of I'm right and you're wrong. Now shut the fuck and please listen as I explain why you're an ignorant shit head. There's no dialog. No back and forth of talking points. No earnest effort to hear the other side. It's just a cold calculated effort to shut the other person down.
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
DY_nasty said:
breh

this shit came up OTs ago.

i'm like the last person around from back then still here to give a fuck apparently. cptmcblack, lebron, bay, urban scholar, topher, and a bunch of others already threw you all in the bushes
Click to expand...

all those names. fuck
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Vermillion said:
...Wait, I was agreeing with you. Sorry if I was unclear. I meant the actual racists like those who were instantly banned in the Michael Brown thread. I looked at their posts and completely ignored them, because I saw that they were just revelling in being trolls. And they were banned for that.

Engaging with ignorant people can very well be worth the time. I've had small successes with explaining to people why they're being insensitive, etc. That's also why I prefer that people explain how I'm being insensitive... not only for personal knowledge, but I can pass it on to others as well.
Click to expand...

I gave yal 4 pages of 1 on 1 direct mIRC bullshit with Riggs - a clear as day permabanned racist by every definition. It can be done if you actually want to do it.

And everyone is insensitive. That's easy. I'm talking about the people who learned from any number of sources that you and everyone like you are beneath them in some form or another. If you're ever going to have that conversation, you can't be detached from it. They won't be.
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
DY_nasty said:
I gave yal 4 pages of 1 on 1 direct mIRC bullshit with Riggs - a clear as day permabanned racist by every definition. It can be done if you actually want to do it.

And everyone is insensitive. That's easy. I'm talking about the people who learned from any number of sources that you and everyone like you are beneath them in some form or another. If you're ever going to have that conversation, you can't be detached from it. They won't be.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Most of the time, I assume that they need to be around black people in order to understand. That's not something that I can give on the internet.

But I suppose that I can try in the future.

...Unless they're instabanned, of course.

Angelus Errare said:
Taco Bell? Que parte del juego es este?
Click to expand...

Lmfao
 
I

ishibear

is a goddamn bear
harSon said:
That's one thing we could all learn. From what I've seen, there's a lot of I'm right and you're wrong. Now shut the fuck and please listen as I explain why you're an ignorant shit head. There's no dialog. No back and forth of talking points. No earnest effort to hear the other side. It's just a cold calculated effort to shut the other person down.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and that's not fruitful conversation at all. Recently, there was a really nice thread that helped some Asian Gaffers and Latino Gaffers reach an understanding on their perception of the word exotic. They reached that understanding by talking it out and came out with knew knowledge. Me too tho haha (I like when stuff like that happens)

Hopefully we can get that more often in here too.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
Yea I think most if not all of us are guilty of jumping down people's throat instead of trying to engage. I know I am. When I catch myself spazzing out, I usually start posting GIFs or I just leave the thread. I was honestly expecting to be banned when I made that long winded Ferguson post mostly because I didn't know how people were going to take the "fuck your white privilege" parts.
 
O

Onemic

Member
I keep feeling like some of y'all want us to eventually be like this, even though you say you dont. I don't know where the idea that this thread should always only have one opinion on social matters and if someone happens to have an insensitive opinion that doesnt align with yours, it should be met with a quick dismissal like you would some random drive by poster in OT, but ive seen it creeping in here the past year. This might've been the one to set shit off, but I've seen it so many times over the years ive lost count. Y'all gotta realize that this isn't some random OT thread with where someone with a clear agenda is out talking bullshit. No one(at least thats a non lurker) acts like that, so why treat discussions in here the same way? Yet I see this mentality continually manifesting itself here.

There was another situation a little back that made me almost wanna say something similar to this, but since we're all talking about it might as well let it drop.
 
T

Trey

Member
Just lost a chess match on some bullshit and I'm salty as thee fuck. It's really the worst game to lose in cuz every loss always feels personal.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
DY_nasty said:
breh

this shit came up OTs ago.

i'm like the last person around from back then still here to give a fuck apparently. cptmcblack, lebron, bay, urban scholar, topher, and a bunch of others already threw you all in the bushes
Click to expand...

indeed. i mean, i'm still around, but i was never much of a fuck giver to begin with. i think i have a couple full deck of fucks left and just not giving 'em out at all.

and i still think she was trolling a few weeks ago.
 
J

JohnDoe

Banned
Infinite said:
It makes no sense to me to let shit tip over like that. If you see something you don't like its best to call it out right there in a civil manner. If hypocrisy was such an issue why is the first time some of y'all saying something about it?
Click to expand...

To be honest... It's not. DY has called people out on it. The thing devo called people out on a few pages ago (bodyshaming taylor swift)... she has told people a lot of time to stop that kind of pathetic OT-like behavior and she's right. I used to call out people in here for the same stuff if they went overboard but not as much anymore. Guess I gotta participate a bit more (in OT and here) after seeing what happened tonight.
 
B

BHZ Mayor

Member
Angelus Errare said:
Yea I think most if not all of us are guilty of jumping down people's throat instead of trying to engage. I know I am. When I catch myself spazzing out, I usually start posting GIFs or I just leave the thread. I was honestly expecting to be banned when I made that long winded Ferguson post mostly because I didn't know how people were going to take the "fuck your white privilege" parts.
Click to expand...

Onemic said:
I keep feeling like some of y'all want us to eventually be like this, even though you say you dont. I don't know where the idea that this thread should always only have one opinion on social matters and if someone happens to have an insensitive opinion that doesnt align with yours, it should be met with a quick dismissal like you would some random drive by poster in OT, but ive seen it creeping in here the past year. This might've been the one to set shit off, but I've seen it so many times over the years ive lost count. Y'all gotta realize that this isn't some random OT thread with where someone with a clear agenda is out talking bullshit. No one(at least thats a non lurker) acts like that, so why treat discussions in here the same way? Yet I see this mentality continually manifesting itself here.

There was another situation a little back that made me almost wanna say something similar to this, but since we're all talking about it might as well let it drop.
Click to expand...

I almost don't want to give my two cents since I feel like I don't even post enough for me to get involved, but I pretty much agree with these two posts. It feels like a lot of people would rather talk at people or be condescending rather than just debating. There was a back and forth a while back where I think Retro_ pointed out that there's no need to post at the other person like they're dumber than you.
 
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