Yup, is Gamergate even big enough to have actual effect. Only Gaf is keeping them alive in my eyes. I don't really read Youtube comments or Twitch chat though so maybe that's why I rarely notice it mentioned besides Gaf.
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There is a Clear Line From Gamergate to the Election of Donald Trump
- Thread starter Wanda/Wander
- Start date
Yup, is Gamergate even big enough to have actual effect. Only Gaf is keeping them alive in my eyes. I don't really read Youtube comments or Twitch chat though so maybe that's why I rarely notice it mentioned besides Gaf.
UncleSporky
Member
In this case it seems like you're the one screaming bloody murder?
I mean, I wanted to see what you were talking about with these people always coming out of the woodwork to freak out. I searched this thread for "Sarkeesian" and all I saw was someone calmly explaining why they thought her videos might promote a chilling effect. Like in the mildest, most careful wording possible, because they knew it was thin ice around here.
Why are you accusing them of making death threats? They explained that they're a libertarian who voted for Hillary, why are you calling them a screaming alt-righter?
Shai-Tan
Banned
In some ways it does mirror the 90s. There were culture wars about political correctness, postmodernism/cultural relativism/the science wars, second wave vs third wave feminism, etc Some of those debates have returned and new ones have formed around activism, magnified by mass social platforms like twitter and facebook.
Bankastuba
Member
This belongs in off-topic
RichiRamjag
Member
After the election, that definitely is a bad idea. You always have to challenge yourself to read views and opinions that may not align with yours. Goes for everyone here.
You better add more than that or you'll probably get banned. Thread whining without reason normally results in one.
RipperGrim
Member
I definitely saw similarities between the way zoe quinn and Hillary Clinton were portrayed on the Internet.
No evidence to back up the accusations against them but in the end it didn't matter, even when the truth is revealed.
Trolls have too much influence.
No evidence to back up the accusations against them but in the end it didn't matter, even when the truth is revealed.
Trolls have too much influence.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
It's this that leads me to think we're all overthinking things, and an application of Occam's Razor would be illuminating. We're spending so much time trying to figure out how this could've happened, when the simplest answer is likely the most accurate. Romney got embarrassed by Obama in 2012 and still managed to get more votes than Trump.
In my mind, this leads to a handful of conclusions:
- There are a certain number of people who are always going to vote Red, because "fuck you, that's why" (in this situation, you being the Democratic party). It never mattered what Trump was saying, they were going to vote Red regardless. The preliminary polls never mattered because the election day polls are the ones that most people actually care enough about to go out and DO something.
- For a number of reasons, people saw Hillary as unlikable, and Trump as "deplorable". Voter turnout was down compared to 2012. So ultimately, way too many people looked at Trump, and looked at Hillary, and just decided "fuck it, I'll stay home" or voted third party. (Which garnered a surprising five million+ votes between the two main contenders.)
In my mind, Trump didn't "galvanize" any new faction of voters. I saw a map with what each state looks like broken down by race and race/gender. The white male map was overwhelmingly red, but y'know what...? So was the white female. Trump said all this disgusting shit about women and yet white women turned out in droves to vote for him anyway. More white women voted Trump than Hillary, even. GOP voters are going to vote GOP, period.
Liberal voters on the other hand? Turn like the wind. Logic says if you can't get what you want, at least get SOMETHING. Bernie probably would've made this election look like 2008 for democrats. But he couldn't nail the black vote, a fact that puzzled my friends and I (all of us black) to no end. Meanwhile the rest of liberal voters either decided "fuck it, I won't vote" or to vote Jill Stein or whatever. You wanted what you wanted or "nothing", and nothing's what you got. The unwillingness to compromise is what got us here. Nobody knows who the fuck Gamergate is--I have to explain its existence to people I know that play LOTS of fucking games, and that's where their influence is supposed to "matter". When you say that you mean alt-right, and even THOSE losers didn't really do more than what they were always going to do.
Apathy is what got us here. If you want to write think pieces, let's figure out what it was about Hillary that made so many voters nope the fuck away from the polls.
Especially since feminist critique is literally one of the most bog-standard ways to look at any other piece of literature or media
Great summary, thank you.
RichiRamjag
Member
All true. Well said.
Arthur-Hucksake
Neo Member
It's pretty clear what is happening in the world.
The modern Liberal likes to protest and shout down everyday people who have their own opinions on different things. Branding them bigots, racists.... when in fact they could be commenting on a general issue. i.e a points system is the fairest immigration policy. Millennial Liberals would shout down folk here for even suggesting it.
In angst, they take it to the voting booth and before we know it..... Brexit and Trump happens.
It's the only way they feel they have a voice.
The protests after the Trump vote pretty much sum up the same morons that caused this domino effect.
Jumping up and down and shouting people down to get your own way will get you nowhere. The people will just go against you out of spite.
It's awful to be honest. A lot of these voters were probably democrat / left and switched up within the past five years. Being progressive is meant to be about understanding, discussion and forum. Not ranting to get your own way like some spoilt bully.
The modern Liberal likes to protest and shout down everyday people who have their own opinions on different things. Branding them bigots, racists.... when in fact they could be commenting on a general issue. i.e a points system is the fairest immigration policy. Millennial Liberals would shout down folk here for even suggesting it.
In angst, they take it to the voting booth and before we know it..... Brexit and Trump happens.
It's the only way they feel they have a voice.
The protests after the Trump vote pretty much sum up the same morons that caused this domino effect.
Jumping up and down and shouting people down to get your own way will get you nowhere. The people will just go against you out of spite.
It's awful to be honest. A lot of these voters were probably democrat / left and switched up within the past five years. Being progressive is meant to be about understanding, discussion and forum. Not ranting to get your own way like some spoilt bully.
Thabass
Member
GamerGate is just part of the war on Political Correctness. It seeped into the gaming culture and part of that was the supposed "ethics in journalism" as many outlets began to get more and more PC in their writing.
But I wouldn't necessarily say that was the start of Donald Trump. Trump has always wanted to get into politics. All the way back into the 1980's. He always said he didn't really wanna run, until I wanted to.
As for Gamegate vs. PC, that was just part of the long war of people that hate PC, it just finally hit the gaming culture. At least that's my opinion on it.
But I wouldn't necessarily say that was the start of Donald Trump. Trump has always wanted to get into politics. All the way back into the 1980's. He always said he didn't really wanna run, until I wanted to.
As for Gamegate vs. PC, that was just part of the long war of people that hate PC, it just finally hit the gaming culture. At least that's my opinion on it.
RichiRamjag
Member
Oh stop. There are actually a few opposing viewpoints here where people are explaining their position. Don't set a shitty tone.
Dyson Industries
Banned
Are we in the same thread?
UncleSporky
Member
From what I understand, a chilling effect is a deterrent to certain kinds of actions or speech, due to some perceived consequence/threat if you say or do those things.
Do you think expressing opinions opposed to hers is welcome around here? Heck, maybe people just expect a reaction like yours and don't want to be accused of screaming bloody murder or being alt-right.
Even though opinions opposed to hers shouldn't be expressed because they are shitty or harmful, can you really blame someone for noticing the lack of an opposing viewpoint and interpreting it that way?
Not all chilling effects need to be seen as a negative thing.
EDIT: To make it doubly clear, this is not a claim that anyone opposed to Anita Sarkeesian deserves a voice, or deserves to be welcomed. This is just saying that yeah, factually maybe there has been a chilling effect, and it's probably justified.
Whining about Anita? That's some smart decision making.
dottme
Member
Do you feel a lot of republican or Trump supporter come in and explain themselves?
From my reading, it looks mainly analysis from Democrat supporter trying to reflect on what happened.
Edit: ok there is one just above my post
Veritigo_X
Member
Yep. Call them white nationalists. No need to whitewash them.
It's disturbing the lengths people are going to avoid saying it.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
They dwell in the KiA forums. They're very much still trying to fuck with people.
NoFaceNico
Member
"Clear Line"
As clear of a connection as spray tan. You're making a cause/correlation fallacy.
As clear of a connection as spray tan. You're making a cause/correlation fallacy.
Yeah, the younger set latching onto this 'political correctness' bogeyman definitely smacks of a lack of perspective. Not 20 years ago, people were shocked when someone said 'shit' in a game. Popular comedians are more vulgar than ever, shows full of mature content rule TV ratings.
The only thing that's gotten more prurient in the last few years is tolerance for hate speech and tactless jokes at the expense of minorities, and media that portrays women as little more than trophies with tits. If you think those are negative changes that need to be fought back against, maybe consider that you might be a bit of a shit.
Arthur-Hucksake
Neo Member
But it's still creative freedom. Not everything can suit everyone. If you don't like it, stay away. Some things put the jeepers up me, I stay away from them.
I think the biggest issue is the outrage and reaction to certain things. Blown far out of proportion.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Creative freedom doesn't shield you from criticism, neither does the first amendment. And if that public and fair criticism causes, in this case, a publisher to decide not to release a particular game because they don't believe the profits outweigh the criticism, so be it. That's not censorship, that's the free market at work.
Permanently A
Junior Member
This guy doesn't seem to think so.
Gamergate is mostly made up of gullible idiots, not the alt-right.
This is some Costanza shit.
chillybright
Banned
Not so clear when you just literally put some events in chronological order.
I don't think it's coming from a lack of historical perspective. The "political correctness" boogeyman and all responses to it seem to be fairly kneejerk and comes and goes in waves. There was a burst of PC in the early 90s then a resistance that led to the 2000s giving us things like uncensored cursing, nudity, violence etc. on television and videogames and whatnot. This was met with a harsh backlash from a weird hybrid of PC organizations and religious groups and a very aggressive FCC. This has just gone back and forth constantly throughout the years.
I'd disagree about popular comedians being more vulgar than ever though. Looking at the major comedians right now, we've come a long fucking way from the years of Andrew Dice Clay.
When people don't like something they comment on it. I don't get why we can have threads filled with pages of critique of game design and framerates and pricing and shit but the second social issues come up it's suddenly too far.
There's this as well.
18-49 seems to be the biggest age group.
http://segmentnext.com/2015/11/04/r...&utm_campaign=Feed:+Segmentnext+(SegmentNext)
Absolutely. Gamers and people in geek culture in general need to be serious about not accepting white supremacist, sexist bullshit in our circles. Likewise, we need to support women and people of color in our scenes, as well as trans people, immigrants, disabled people, and everyone else Trump and his neo-nazi fanbase target. There can be no room for hate in gaming culture.
True. But Gamersgate has been symptomatic of the alt-right phenomenon. You have a small group of disaffected constituents who learned to use the tools of the internet to campaign for their cause. Using these tools they harassed, bullied, and shut down opposition. Although Gamersgate was ultimately a failed movement it served as an amazing training ground, a political campaign over something "trivial." Some of these individuals used their newfound knowledge and applied it to a more broad platform in 2016. And I have no doubt that they are now celebrating, because the change they helped create also empowered them and gave them a framework from which to operate in the future.
No, they are not the sole reason that DJT is our next president. But they are now a political force to be reckoned with -- one that has learned from it's past mistakes and now has an operative in the highest branch of government. They also have a dedicated alternative media which can speak directly to them and activate them again in the future.
If only people were as horrified about actually being racist and/or behaving in racist ways as they are about being called racist.
-Mutsukki-
Member
Huh? I think it's less of a clear line and more of an obvious thing. But I don't think any 4channer or GGer even left their houses to vote, lol.
I think it's because there's still a sizable portion of young people (especially white men) who follow the same lines of thought when it comes to diversity. It's not the majority, but it's significant.
(anecdotal) There are so many white male nerds I've met who are Gamergaters or MRAs. I think it's like 70% of those I've met and talked to who when the issue comes up, they start saying
I.e. there is something related to the identity of a Gamergater that runs in parallel with the white supremacist, homophobic, misogynist (especially) trends we see in the so-called alt-right movement. And these aren't necessarily your old uncle saying racist shit at the dinner table, but young adult men who are somehow extremely angry because equality to them feels like oppression.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I don't think it's a line, I think both are a symptom of an underlying problem and that problem is that there's a certain section of populations, seeing the rise of political correctness, of awareness for LGBT+ issues, of women in traditionally male roles along with a view that the left wing managed to alienate a large number of people with a rigid "you're either with us our against us" mentality who feel their voices were no longer being recognised. "Special snowflake" is an insult that is thrown at left wing people, but I think it applies to the right just as much.
I feel like the right are on the rise because we, the left, failed to engage them, to find what their concerns were and educate and address them, instead we tried to silence them and, like anything that ends up silenced, it gets driven underground but comes back much more vitriolic and much more extreme. Don't be surprised if, for a while, the voices of the left is a whimper against a thunderous right wing Trumpet. We didn't listen to them then, why would they listen to us now? This also isn't be dismissing anything, I'm angry, more so than I've ever been politically in my life, I'm just trying to see why someone would have voted for something like this.
It's no surprise that Brexit being pushed by the right, Trump and the increased support for the right in Europe are happening at the same time
I feel like the right are on the rise because we, the left, failed to engage them, to find what their concerns were and educate and address them, instead we tried to silence them and, like anything that ends up silenced, it gets driven underground but comes back much more vitriolic and much more extreme. Don't be surprised if, for a while, the voices of the left is a whimper against a thunderous right wing Trumpet. We didn't listen to them then, why would they listen to us now? This also isn't be dismissing anything, I'm angry, more so than I've ever been politically in my life, I'm just trying to see why someone would have voted for something like this.
It's no surprise that Brexit being pushed by the right, Trump and the increased support for the right in Europe are happening at the same time
Your reasoning is spurious. Your assuming GG caused all this, while disregarding whether or not Trump's presidency and GG originate from the same cause, or are completely unrelated entirely. Most probably, there was a root cause for both occurring, and that was the backlash against political correctness.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc and all that.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc and all that.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
This is accurate. The other end of the equation to this "why Trump won" stuff that drives me up a wall is the conservative half. Liberals are struggling to figure out who voted for him (which is obvious), while apologists are saying Trump got votes because of a "silent majority" that are "tired of PC culture" or being called racist. They're both fucking wrong, and even if apologists were accurate that wouldn't make it better. You got tired of being called sexist, racist, or homo/transphobic so you voted for a guy who was sexist and racist that had a running mate who was homo/transphobic. Yup, that checks out.
There's certainly people who are all too eager to start slinging names about at even fellow liberals for not "checking their privilege" enough during arguments. But THAT idiocy is a far cry from calling an "All Lives Matter" supporter a racist. Sorry not sorry.
But to what extent do we acknowledge a position of bigotry? And how do you deal with someone who thinks women should shut up and leave gaming if they can't handle the harassment? Or someone who spews diet racism again and again? And to repeat "If only people were as horrified about actually being racist and/or behaving in racist ways as they are about being called racist." I don't get the whole "if you call me a racist I'm going to vote for a racist presidential candidate and empower fascism".
Why do people with abhorrent beliefs deserve special treatment in order to convince them to lay off their bigotry, while people at the margins don't receive similar special treatment? Why do these bigots have to be the center of how to improve the lives of others?
EDIT: Exactly what Some Nobody just wrote:
Wanda/Wander
Member
Gamergate didn't cause all of this, but I don't think there is an "Alt-Right" Movement without Gamergate.
RustyNails
Member
I dont think the rise of gamergate caused Trump win. The direct line is there in the sense that gamergate base wholely supported Trump. But so did white working class voters, who are the real cause of Trump win.
inpHilltr8r
Member
The war on PC massively predates the existence of GG by several decades.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
These are all questions I've asked, not on here, but I have been continually met with "failure to engage" and I have TRIED to see it from another point of view. I literally posted on an article today about Neo Nazis in Sweden and said "Apparently, we're supposed to engage with these people..." and was met with "you have to" and I can't. I just can't. My conscience won't allow it, even typing that previous, it goes against the very basic principles I hold to engage bigotry as if it's a legitimate political stance to take.
1. The white working class voting Trump is a myth It was white middle-class and upper-middle class.
2. Black and Hispanic people are part of the working class
3. Priya Jain: "The white working class can kiss my brown ass"
theangrypirate
Member
Really!? You do realize 4chan existed long long long before GG. Do you really think people weren't sick to death of the perpetually offended before GG? Nothing about video games inspired the alt-right movement. GG is just the gaming manifestation of the alt right not a cause.
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