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UK Labour Leadership Crisis: Corbyn retained as leader by strong margin
- Thread starter Hazzuh
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Honestly, if this is for real, he'll smash the leadership contest, again, and we'll all be here in 3 months time saying 'what next'
yikes.
if Corbyn's not even on the ballot it will be an absolute disaster for Labour. Whoever wins will have no credibility.
She doesn't seem at ease there, I hope for her that it's just temporary.
Confirms what I already thought tho, all talk no show
That's even worse to be honest, complete sham of a vote.
CyclopsRock
Member
#NeverForget
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/jeremy-corbyn-john-mcdonnell-interview-election-2015-labour-party-674
Maybe they were better at convincing the PLP than they thought? They don't believe in leaders either.
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/jeremy-corbyn-john-mcdonnell-interview-election-2015-labour-party-674
Maybe they were better at convincing the PLP than they thought? They don't believe in leaders either.
JonathanEx
Member
So today is the day that Labour's NEC will decide whether Corbyn is on the ballot. It's most likely he will be, purely on the number of unions on the NEC regardless of legal advice. That's from 2pm: http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ec-set-ensure-jeremy-corbyn-leadership-ballot
Meanwhile, Angela Eagle's constituency office was bricked overnight. No word on who, or motive, but if you think of 'people who might not be fans of her' and 'movements that threaten anyone who disagrees' I'm not going to be surprised if it goes a certain way. https://twitter.com/arifbbc/status/752796401034227712. Staff also not picking up phones due to abuse: https://twitter.com/dats/status/752800373568659456
Meanwhile, Angela Eagle's constituency office was bricked overnight. No word on who, or motive, but if you think of 'people who might not be fans of her' and 'movements that threaten anyone who disagrees' I'm not going to be surprised if it goes a certain way. https://twitter.com/arifbbc/status/752796401034227712. Staff also not picking up phones due to abuse: https://twitter.com/dats/status/752800373568659456
So what you're saying was this was a blairite false flag operation?
JonathanEx
Member
absolutely, because false flags happen in the real world, all the time, we're not crazy, honest, the establishment are coming to get us
i have been on the twiter and found proof:
https://twitter.com/reload_refresh/status/752799359318851584
https://twitter.com/RVMesh/status/752800344674078721
they no the truth, wake up sheeple
"Corbyn - no statement about new PM. Misses PLP. But does attend Cuba Solidarity event in support of regime which jails trade unionists"
This is what people mean when we say he's incompetent.
This is what people mean when we say he's incompetent.
That's rather misleading.
- 9 million people voted labour at the 2015 election.
- 250k members (including associates etc) voted for Corbyn.
By 'voter base' you mean labour *members* not voters. Opinion polls show that the '9 million' are overwhelmingly opposed to Corbyn, it's the much smaller (and more extreme) group of members that voted for him.
JonathanEx
Member
Also funny, Andy "I'll believe what you want me to believe, I don't want to upset you" Burnham stayed in the shadow cabinet so he'd have support from members, including Corbynista types, for the Manchester mayor bid.
So obviously unions and Momentum have gone with Tony Lloyd to back.
Andy Burnham is continually a tragic tale with a face to match.
So obviously unions and Momentum have gone with Tony Lloyd to back.
Andy Burnham is continually a tragic tale with a face to match.
travisbickle
Member
Cut the end of that tweet it's fucking stupid. The organisation he was at petitions MPs to drop trade sanctions against Cuba. Other organisations do this as well, like Amnesty International. and like Amnesty International it doesn't mean they support all aspects of the Cuban regime.
I'm not saying its to the scale of what happened to the libs dems (its just sort of reminiscent) but unless they suddenly win back scotland they need as much support as possible (I'm not saying to keep corbyn I just think forcing him off the ballot would turn a sizable group off voting labour)
Nicktendo86
Member
So, where are we? If the NEC allow Corbyn back on the ballot he will probably win a leadership challenge, the party would have to split and Labour are fucked.
If the NEC rule Corbyn must get the required signatures to get on the ballot, which he won't, the unions will withdraw support and there will probably be legal challenges and Labour are fucked.
Is there any way out of this in which Labour are not fucked? I'm struggling to work that out.
If the NEC rule Corbyn must get the required signatures to get on the ballot, which he won't, the unions will withdraw support and there will probably be legal challenges and Labour are fucked.
Is there any way out of this in which Labour are not fucked? I'm struggling to work that out.
Bananajama
Banned
Nope - which means we're stuck with the Tories for the next 20 years
Unless the Lib Dems can mount a chall.....
Hahahahaha I can't even finish that sentence
JonathanEx
Member
It's a case of how fucked do you want to be, rather than not being fucked.
I mean the least-worst scenario is Corbyn realises this is a pointless exercise and steps down. This will never happen.
If he stays on, I guess the following happens:
- If snap general election, Labour suffers massive losses that will take decades to recover. It'll be blamed on 'not backing Corbyn'. He won't quit.
- 2018, boundary changes will be used to drop any MPs who scraped by in the election, but aren't pure blooded.
- Next election, more losses.
- Oh god please stop
- If not snap election, boundary change deselections come first, and then the massive loss.
If they can oust him, it's a gradual process to get union backing... back, but it'll need to happen eventually as where else will they go for a political voice? SWP? Hahahah fuck off. I think that one is easier to recover from.
That said, it'll cause one hell of a shitstorm first.
I mean the least-worst scenario is Corbyn realises this is a pointless exercise and steps down. This will never happen.
If he stays on, I guess the following happens:
- If snap general election, Labour suffers massive losses that will take decades to recover. It'll be blamed on 'not backing Corbyn'. He won't quit.
- 2018, boundary changes will be used to drop any MPs who scraped by in the election, but aren't pure blooded.
- Next election, more losses.
- Oh god please stop
- If not snap election, boundary change deselections come first, and then the massive loss.
If they can oust him, it's a gradual process to get union backing... back, but it'll need to happen eventually as where else will they go for a political voice? SWP? Hahahah fuck off. I think that one is easier to recover from.
That said, it'll cause one hell of a shitstorm first.
The LibDems lost the support of voters, not members.
With Corbyn as leader, 30% of 2015 labour voters have said that they will not vote labour. That's around 3 million votes... (even if he kept those 3m votes, he'd lose as badly as Ed Milliband)
In terms of keeping him on the ballot - it's widely expected that he will win, which will almost certainly cause the Labour party to split.
Nicktendo86
Member
I think Labour are finished to be honest. Might be a slow decline/death or a quick one, either way the party as is now is done. Especially if UKIP do the smart thing and evolve into a centre left party and concentrate on old labour heartlands like northern towns. They came second in a lot of seats last year even with their whole campaign basically trying to get Fararge elected in Thanet.
Red Liquorice
Member
It's disappointing to me that a lot of people will only vote for someone who they see conforming to some kind of superman forceful leader type. I like what both Corbyn and Eagle stand for and say, but I know they could never lead Labour to victor in a general election. Personally I would want someone more considered and less prone to hyperbolic rhetoric. To me politicians should be bean-counter types and boring goodie-goodies, not bellowing loudmouths or mini-Tony Blairs delivering soundbites and swaying any way the wind blows.
CyclopsRock
Member
Has this happened recently, though, to demonstrate that it fails? Like, I don't think Corbyn's problem is that he isn't sufficiently exciting. The last candidate I can remember against whom the fact he was "boring" was successfully used against him was IDS, but then he had a raft of other things stopping him getting elected too (not that he lived that long, but Howard - arguably a more experienced and exciting version of IDS - went on to lose in 2005). I guess you'd need to go back to Major beating Kinnock to see the last time a "boring" candidate was successful. Ed wasn't called Boring, Ed was called Weird (and boring).
Which is all my way of saying that I don't think what you desire is necessarily impossible, it's just that Corbyn ain't it.
the people want what they want
The PLP should be able to choose their own leader like the Tory Party rather than having a leader imposed on them. That's what would be best for the party.
If voters don't like the Labour party's policies then they should simply vote for a different party.
Seeing how unified the Tories are compared to the mess that is the Labour party is disheartening.
If voters don't like the Labour party's policies then they should simply vote for a different party.
Seeing how unified the Tories are compared to the mess that is the Labour party is disheartening.
Nicktendo86
Member
To be fair, the Tory membership should have and was going to have the final say on the leader, it just never got to that stage as Leadsom pulled out.
This is the fundamental issue though, our MPs that we elect seem to have a different view to members. Probably because MPs try to appeal to the centre which is where the majority of votes are whereas members of the public that decide to join a party are probably further away from the centre than the average voter. I can't see how this could ever reconcile, really.
yeah let's do away with party democracy, make stalin look like an anarchist /s
Royal_Phalanx
Member
The Lib Dems need to recover. Corbyn is destroying the Labour Party.
Labour are in trouble for sure, but not quite done yet. It's certainly a risk though. I don't see how they can put together the old alliance of the working class and the metropolitan urban voters, and they certainly aren't going to be able to present themselves as a steady, centrist party while the Tories are in any way competent. (Yes I know the Tories aren't really centrist, but they've somehow managed to convince the public that their agenda is centrist politics, and that they're the real heir to Blair.)
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
the Lib Dems need a UNS of 5% from the Conservatives just to get back up to a mere 21 seats; they're not going anywhere.
travisbickle
Member
Average voter is the operative phrase. Labour either continue chasing people who voted for the Tories at the last 2 elections, or with the grass roots movement try to get people who don't usually vote.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
That's not the least bad scenario, because his base would feel he was sabotaged by the right. The only way to properly settle this is a leadership contest, with Corbyn on the ballot, vs. a "soft left" challenger - i.e., not Eagle, but someone like Starmer or Lewis or Nandy, or someone who has so little track record it isn't too late for them to morph into being soft left, like Jarvis. Winner takes the Labour Party.
As it is, Corbyn is going to beat Eagle. That interview was a trainwreck, she's like a real life Nicola Murray.
nelsonroyale
Member
Of course, it is not as if the Labour party have been in decline the last 10 years, fail after fail. I mean Tony Blair got in on a wave of support and is now (rightly in my opinion) one of the most despised PMs Britain has ever had. Brown was very much central during the Blair years plus got the Blair fallout after he jumped ship. Ed and the party during his leadership were all over the shop politically, with no real coherent vision or credibility. Their voting base in Scotland has been decimated. They chose Kezia Dugdale who has made matters worse. These processes were begun before Corbyn. Corbyn represents one side of a reckoning between those in Labour who want more significant social and economic change, and the 'pragmatic realists' who believe that being elected at all costs is the most important matter, thenceforth real change can be made (good track record on that, mind...)
zorlaczerohero
Banned
This is the problem, Labour, Lib dems and the Tories all fighting over the same voters. Many people, myself included just switched off and started voting for any old shite. I don't see Corbyn as unelectable, I hope he will bring back the disillusioned masses and form a strong left wing party. I have friends from all backgrounds and walks of life, out of 400+ "friends" on Facebook I haven't seen one wanting Corbyn to step down, my friends are either Tory or Corbyn with the odd ukip'er I can't delete because it will piss someone else off. Not one has shared an Angela Eagle post, not one, yet I see countless people sharing Corbyn led media. It's not my demographic, I live in Australia, my Dad votes Tory, my friends are everything from Doctors (80% of my Dr friends back Corbyn) to shelf stackers. I hope my own experience is evidence of people getting back into caring about politics, because I know I haven't cared since I helped to vote Blair in, once. If everyone claiming he's unelectable actually started backing him, he wouldn't be unelectable anymore. But listening to the PLP and Murdoch press has people believing any old shit.
Coriolanus
Banned
There could another option, of course. Corbyn could act as kingmaker and choose his sucessor, someone seen as (marginally) more acceptable by all the rest of the MPs, and get some degree of say in that new person's administration.
Does such a person exist, tho?
Shitting on Cuba after even the US started getting close to them only makes you Look stuck in the past, mate.
Apparently even Paul Flynn called on Corbyn to resign in a shadow cabinet meeting. I guess he's a blairite too now.
I'm not "shitting on Cuba"? You really think that was the best use of Corbyn's time?
I'm not "shitting on Cuba"? You really think that was the best use of Corbyn's time?
Lib Dem polling hasn't moved at all since the referendum so it's not really clear if they'd do better. Labour are going to get battered though. If the election is soon than we have to deal with Corbyn leading a totally divided Labour party on a platform the electorate don't care about, if May waits then the constituency boundaries are going to be redraw and they currently favour Labour...
CyclopsRock
Member
If there was an election now, it would be an utter, utter bloodbath for Labour. All their MPs would be going on TV and saying that even *they* don't think Corbyn is the man for the job. Almost every major voice would be saying, if not 'vote Tory' then at least "don't vote Labour". May would end up with an enormous majority and I imagine Ukip would pick up a number of seats too.
Incidentally, I don't see why anyone thinks there's an appetite out there for a left wing party that'll "wake up" non voters.
Coriolanus
Banned
A Corbyn supported Jarvis is the dream scenario (but unlikely cos of his pro-miltary background)
Peter Ian Staker
Member
I don't think there is appetite for a centrist party that will go after the Tory vote either.
This isn't the 00s anymore the public is way to polarized.
PJV3
Member
It will become interesting post Brexit, one of the driving forces of motivation for the right will be gone, and the left might become liberated without EU limitations on state economic/industrial interference.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Lib Dems are irrelevant. A recovery is much harder than a fall in politics; they need a 5% swing from the Conservatives to get over 20 seats, and they won't even reach that benchmark. Labour would be catastrophically routed. The real question would be whether Labour or UKIP would be the official opposition.
CyclopsRock
Member
What is your reasoning for thinking this is the case? The Voteshare for Labour and the Tories was, at the last election, basically "normal" insomuch as it corresponded to about the same total percentage of the vote as it usually does.
zorlaczerohero
Banned
I have a good friend (army Doctor) who served with Jarvis and had nothing but praise for him. As much as I disagree with his need to go into Syria, I respect him because he at least understands his decision better than the other Labour politicians.
travisbickle
Member
Because the Tory party keep killing poor and disabled people and people still keep voting for them.
So you either have a Labour party that kills the poor and disabled at a rate similar or above the Tories to win some of their voters, or you move to the left where killing poor and disabled people is not part of policy ... and then more poor people who don't usually vote (they're not turkeys who vote for Christmas) vote for you.
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