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[Deleted member 231381]

As opposed to what's happening to them now.

I absolutely blame Corbyn's unwillingness to cooperate with the pro-Remain Tories for contributing to the failure of Remain, and I'm surprised you don't.

No, I think this is a nonsense narrative. Corbyn was never going to appeal to Conservative voters, that should be obvious. Insofar as he had a role in the Remain campaign, it needed to be persuading Labour voters. Those Labour voters supporting Leave were heavily concentrated in the North of England; and are typically deeply anti-Conservative. They're the old industrial class of the North. Sharing a platform with Cameron and chumming around would have driven this class even further to UKIP; the same way that sharing a platform with the Conservatives drove the Scottish working classes to the SNP. It certainly wouldn't have inclined them to trust the Labour narrative.

Corbyn did need to do much more for Remain; but it needed to be an independent and separate Labour campaign that did as little as possible to be associated with the Conservative one. I do blame Corbyn (among many other factors, though) for at least some of the failure to keep Britain in Europe, but the idea of forming some sort of chummy all-in-this-together Remain campaign is a hideous idea when all across the Western world the mood is "fuck the establishment".

 

[Linkstrikesback]

As opposed to what's happening to them now.

I absolutely blame Corbyn's unwillingness to cooperate with the pro-Remain Tories for contributing to the failure of Remain, and I'm surprised you don't.

That's exactly what the tories want you to think. They're damned good at this manipulating the public business.

He's to blame a little, yeah. But he is way, way, way down the line of people whose fault the referendum result is.

 

[Moosichu]

No, I think this is a nonsense narrative. Corbyn was never going to appeal to Conservative voters, that should be obvious. Insofar as he had a role in the Remain campaign, it needed to be persuading Labour voters. Those Labour voters supporting Leave were heavily concentrated in the North of England; and are typically deeply anti-Conservative. They're the old industrial class of the North. Sharing a platform with Cameron and chumming around would have driven this class even further to UKIP; the same way that sharing a platform with the Conservatives drove the Scottish working classes to the SNP. It certainly wouldn't have inclined them to trust the Labour narrative.

Corbyn did need to do much more for Remain; but it needed to be an independent and separate Labour campaign that did as little as possible to be associated with the Conservative one. I do blame Corbyn (among many other factors, though) for at least some of the failure to keep Britain in Europe, but the idea of forming some sort of chummy all-in-this-together Remain campaign is a hideous idea when all across the Western world the mood is "fuck the establishment".

This.

I know people who (unfortunately) only voted leave to stick it to Cameron.

 

[PJV3]

I swear people forget the disgusting shit said about Corbyn by Cameron. Threat to national security, a threat to people's security and sympathised with Bin laden etc.

Cameron for all his nice manners is one of the most divisive PM's I can think of, even Scottish MP's became a dark menace threatening the English.

 

[Goodlife]

This.

I know people who (unfortunately) only voted leave to stick it to Cameron.

My mother is fairly remain minded, but didn't vote because she can't stand Cameron

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I swear people forget the disgusting shit said about Corbyn by Cameron. Threat to national security, a threat to people's security and sympathised with Bin laden etc.

Cameron for all his nice manners is one of the most divisive PM's I can think of, even Scottish MP's became a dark menace threatening the English.

Perhaps you should pay closer attention to Jeremy Corbyn's musings over the last thirty years. He is definitely a threat to national security and has repeatedly expressed sympathies for terrorists.

 

[Goodlife]

I swear people forget the disgusting shit said about Corbyn by Cameron. Threat to national security, a threat to people's security and sympathised with Bin laden etc.

Cameron for all his nice manners is one of the most divisive PM's I can think of, even Scottish MP's became a dark menace threatening the English.

https://youtu.be/mSDijkmZfJ4
Dodgy Dave

 

[jakonovski]

Looking at Dennis Skinner wikipedia page, TIL that Osborne is actually rumoured to be a drug fiend. That gif makes so much more sense now.

 

[sasliquid]

I swear people forget the disgusting shit said about Corbyn by Cameron. Threat to national security, a threat to people's security and sympathised with Bin laden etc.

Cameron for all his nice manners is one of the most divisive PM's I can think of, even Scottish MP's became a dark menace threatening the English.

Don't forget what he did to the British pig industry

 

[Kurtofan]

To people who support Corbyn but concede he isn't going to win at the next general election.. why not just vote for another left-wing party like the SWP? There are plenty of left-wing parties where you don't have to compromise on anything and you which you don't have to share with people who you hate like Blair. I really don't understand what the difference will be between a Labour recreated in Corbyn's image and the SWP.

You ever hear about a thing called First past the post? it's a death knell for any small parties, and it's highly anti-democratic.

Perhaps you should pay closer attention to Jeremy Corbyn's musings over the last thirty years. He is definitely a threat to national security and has repeatedly expressed sympathies for terrorists.

wow

 

[Xun]

Perhaps you should pay closer attention to Jeremy Corbyn's musings over the last thirty years. He is definitely a threat to national security and has repeatedly expressed sympathies for terrorists.

Citation needed.

 

[Quixzlizx]

As I understand it, forcing him to get support from MPs instead of automatically being on the ballot, would be a change in precedent and policy clearly meant to avoid actually having to beat him in an election.

I think thats shitty so I'm wondering if there any mechanism by which the membership can assert more control over their party.

The precedent is for a party leader who loses a vote of confidence to resign. It wasn't explicitly written into the rules because nobody thought there would be anyone crazy enough to try and hang on.

 

[Maledict]

Looking at Dennis Skinner wikipedia page, TIL that Osborne is actually rumoured to be a drug fiend. That gif makes so much more sense now.

Oh gods yes. Open secret in Westminster. There are pictures of him at parties with known "madam" where excessive drug use happened.

 

[Real Hero]

jezza is on the ballot lads, get in

 

[Uzzy]

Corbyn stands alongside the Tories during the campaign. Osborne then brings out his emergency punishment budget. Corbyn is asked if he'd support it.

There's a reason he didn't stand alongside the Tories.

 

[mehrmantrout]

He won 18-14, what a clusterfuck

 

[Hazzuh]

You ever hear about a thing called First past the post? it's a death knell for any small parties, and it's highly anti-democratic.

If you support Corbyn and know he isn't going to be able to form a government then that doesn't matter.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

labour gonna be wiped out in 2020 I guess.

 

[Goodlife]

jezza is on the ballot lads, get in

Awesome

Predictions....

Corbyn 65%
Eagle 35%

 

[Moosichu]

He won 18-14, what a clusterfuck

What, as opposed to the clusterfuck of him being held of the ballot?

That would destroy the Labour party. (Although, at this point I can't see any outcome that doesn't destroy ut)

 

[remist]

The precedent is for a party leader who loses a vote of confidence to resign. It wasn't explicitly written into the rules because nobody thought there would be anyone crazy enough to try and hang on.

He's staying on because he can still clearly win an election against those trying to oust him. Thats the difference berween previous votes if no convidence and now.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Will not get 150 seats in 2020, not a chance. He will get his wish to turn Labour into a protest party and yet again the poor and sick will get shafted by the Tories for 20 years, thanks Labour, from a lifelong supporter, until this year.

 

[Real Hero]

he will win the contest too, weird how he keeps winning things

 

[Hazzuh]

he will win the contest too, weird how he keeps winning things

If only you could restrict a general election to Labour party members.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

He won 18-14, what a clusterfuck

It started at 19-15, Corbyn couldn't attend (18-15) and one union officer was ill (17-15), so there was actually a "rebel" who defected. Looks like secret ballot backfired.

 

[JonathanEx]

Well we're fucked if he was, fucked if it wasn't


all the way for first train to fuckedville!

This Dead Ringers sketch from the start of the year, set in 2020, feels appropriate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G98vgaMKOy4

 

[Goodlife]

he will win the contest too, weird how he keeps winning things

Yep. Unelectable, yet in his 30 odd years in politics hasn't lost an election yet

 

[Real Hero]

If only you could restrict a general election to Labour party members.

if only indeed

 

[Exterminieren]

Well, that's Labour fucked then.

he will win the contest too, weird how he keeps winning things

He shows absolutely no sign of winning the things that matter.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Yep. Unelectable, yet in his 30 odd years in politics hasn't lost an election yet

Won't be winning in 2020 and he knows it too.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Not being funny guys, but haven't we all been to parties with excessive drug use? They're usually the best kind. When people chastise politicians for not having enough "real world experience", I remember Osborne's gif and I'm grateful.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Well, I don't like Eagle much, but I feel like I sort of have to campaign for her. I don't even dislike Corbyn, that much.

Ugh.

 

[PJV3]

Will not get 150 seats in 2020, not a chance. He will get his wish to turn Labour into a protest party and yet again the poor and sick will get shafted by the Tories for 20 years, thanks Labour, from a lifelong supporter, until this year.

So you're not going to have a go at voting him out?

 

[StormKing]

he will win the contest too, weird how he keeps winning things

He failed to win the referendum which is the main reason this backlash is occurring.

 

[Empty]

He failed to win the referendum which is the main reason this backlash is occurring.

oh he won the referendum

 

[Randdalf]

Given the process through which Labour elect leaders, will there be more than one challenger? Isn't there some kind of second preference system?

 

[Goodlife]

Won't be winning in 2020 and he knows it too.

Maybe. But he'll surprise many.

My wife, who had literally zero interest in politics (used to "argue" with her a lot about it, she just didn't care, never voted etc) is now a card carrying Labour member because of Corbyn.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Will not get 150 seats in 2020, not a chance. He will get his wish to turn Labour into a protest party and yet again the poor and sick will get shafted by the Tories for 20 years, thanks Labour, from a lifelong supporter, until this year.

Are you not going to try and swing it for Eagle?

 

[Real Hero]

He failed to win the referendum which is the main reason this backlash is occurring.

yeah because it was all on him, that was dave's and the governments failure first and foremost

 

[Hazzuh]

Maybe. But he'll surprise many.

My wife, who had literally zero interest in politics (used to "argue" with her a lot about it, she just didn't care, never voted etc) is now a card carrying Labour member because of Corbyn.

A third of people who voted for Labour in 2015 said they wouldn't vote for Corbyn's Labour party.

 

[ferrasvansen]

So you're not going to have a go at voting him out?

Of course I will but i cannot see him losing, the momentum rentacrowd and anarchists United will make him a certain winner.

 

[jamieson87]

PLP will take this to court.

It continues.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Maybe. But he'll surprise many.

My wife, who had literally zero interest in politics (used to "argue" with her a lot about it, she just didn't care, never voted etc) is now a card carrying Labour member because of Corbyn.

That's nice but no replacement for the large amount of voters in the centre who will now vote tory.

This + boundary changes + losing all scottish seats will wipe out labour.

It's absolutely horrifying.

 

[mehrmantrout]

Labour needs someone credible to throw there hat in the ring, it wont destroy there career as they wont be getting into power for a long time

This is back to the loony left of the 70/80's

 

[PJV3]

Of course I will but i cannot see him losing, the momentum rentacrowd and anarchists United will make him a certain winner.

LOL

I think he might struggle if Eagle can say something remotely interesting and avoid bollocks about aspirations.

 

[ferrasvansen]

That's nice but no replacement for the large amount of voters in the centre who will now vote tory.

This + boundary changes + losing all scottish seats will wipe out labour.

It's absolutely horrifying.

Yep I can see them struggling really badly between Scottish wipe out and boundary changes they are totally fucked, could bottom out close to 100 seats.

 

[Goodlife]

A third of people who voted for Labour in 2015 said they wouldn't vote for Corbyn's Labour party.

Given the shit he's had to put up with over the last 9 months, from the media and his own party, I'm surprised it's only a third.

Labour MPs now need to realise he's not going anyway and if they want to keep being MPs then they need to get behind him, to some degree at least.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Brienne of Tarth vs. the High Sparrow.

It begins.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Labour needs someone credible to throw there hat in the ring, it wont destroy there career as they wont be getting into power for a long time

This is back to the loony left of the 70/80's

Kinnock must be wondering why he bothered cleaning up the party

 

[JonathanEx]

Okay, so least-worst-case scenario for now, if you think Corybn should go, is that a better candidate than Eagle gets nominations and she steps out of the race?

And the realistic is we'll have multiple challenges who'll split the non-Corbyn vote and he's back in again?