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[Hazzuh]

Corbyn talking on the BBC.

 

[nelsonroyale]

If politics were won on the centre ground we'd have a Prime Minister Miliband. UKIP's rise is entirely due to the Labour Party abandoning workers in deindustrialzed regions in an endless chase of the center. It's gone so far Tony Blair has gone on record as saying he'd rather lose than win on a leftist platform. The return of the Left to power will never happen if it can't provide a substantial alternative to the Right.

Well said.

Politics has become one of the nations favourite soap operas in the last few years, and the level of hysteria is pretty tragic.

Also lol at crab saying he misses Miliband...He seemed like a nice enough block beneath all the uncertainty and lack of credible positions on a range of issues.

 

[Real Hero]

some knob screaming at him

 

[Sean C]

Even if they didn't have the £3 members Corbyn still won. Unfortunately the party is doing what every party does in opposition - retreating to the far extremes in a quest for purity. Labour did it in the early 80s, the Tories did it in the late 90s early 2000s. He's a feel good candidate for the party faithful - a protest leader.

It always requires a moderate to step back in, take over and lead the party to power. British politics is fought and won on the centre ground, and right now the tories are dominating that to an extent that should be unthinkable.

It should be noted, all of the people Corbyn was running against sucked, which no doubt contributed to his victory, in addition to the protest urge you identified.

Labour needed (and needs) a Trudeau, but there wasn't anybody fitting that description on offer. It's not really a surprise that Corbyn won, since he at least presented a clear vision and the backlash at the PLP (which they frankly deserve; they have not been covering themselves in glory for a long time, and became detached from the membership).

 

[cilonen]

Well said.

Politics has become one of the nations favourite soap operas in the last few years, and the level of hysteria is pretty tragic.

Also lol at crab saying he misses Miliband...He seemed like a nice enough block beneath all the uncertainty and lack of credible positions on a range of issues.

Perfect typo.

 

[JonathanEx]

Oh THIS is interesting:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 4m4 minutes ago
Labour NEC votes for six month membership freeze date and two days for registered supporters with £25 fee.

 

[Coriolanus]

Oh THIS is interesting:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 4m4 minutes ago
Labour NEC votes for six month membership freeze date and two days for registered supporters with £25 fee.

Given how much the membership grew during corb's tenure, that most likely ensures that he wins.

There is no vast left wing base waiting to return home to vote labour if they go further left. It doesn't exist in british politics. I don't know why you would think that, as objective evidence says exactly the opposite.

Fwiw, going by the recent evidence of what is out there, if i was being mad pragmatic, willing to abandon all morality, and wanting to increase labour's base, i'd realize that there's a whole bunch of racist motherfuckers out there and find a speechwriter capable of lowkey dogwhistling immigrants for days, just in a way that is marginally kinder than conservative stuff.

That 52% is prime meat ready for the taking.

 

[ElNarez]

People don't move from Labour to the Tories because Labour aren't left wing enough. People stopped voting Labour because they kept picking leaders who were a laugh - and Ed, unfortunately, didn't have the charisma or presence to be seen as a PM. Sad but that's politics.

There is no vast left wing base waiting to return home to vote labour if they go further left. It doesn't exist in british politics. I don't know why you would think that, as objective evidence says exactly the opposite.

AGAIN, I'm not talking about people moving from Labour to the Tories. I'm talking about people moving from Labour to UKIP, which is an even bigger problem, because those are seats in regions that used to be uncontested. If Labour is losing its strongholds there's no amount of embarassing Tory voters by making a very very sad and serious face while in substance agreeing with their policies that's gonna be able to bridge that gap.

 

[Goodlife]

It should be noted, all of the people Corbyn was running against sucked, which no doubt contributed to his victory, in addition to the protest urge you identified.
.

Exactly
I'd guess the majority of those who voted for him hasn't really heard of him a few months previous, so it's hardly like there is some massive loyalty to Corbyn.
It's just that people liked the message he was giving.
It's that simple.
Find a better leader, with more charisma, but giving the same kind of message, and they'd walk it, I recon.

 

[phisheep]

Oh THIS is interesting:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 4m4 minutes ago
Labour NEC votes for six month membership freeze date and two days for registered supporters with £25 fee.

I'm curious as to what they will do with existing registered supporters. As I recall it, there was a one-off charge and no provision for any fixed term or renewal fee.

 

[Hasney]

The funniest thing about Corbyns opponents being bad first time around is that Eagle is worse than all of them.

 

[ferrasvansen]

The funniest thing about Corbyns opponents being bad first time around is that Eagle is worse than all of them.

I think someone else will emerge from the shadows in the coming weeks.

 

[Sean C]

AGAIN, I'm not talking about people moving from Labour to the Tories. I'm talking about people moving from Labour to UKIP, which is an even bigger problem, because those are seats in regions that used to be uncontested. If Labour is losing its strongholds there's no amount of embarassing Tory voters by making a very very sad and serious face while in substance agreeing with their policies that's gonna be able to bridge that gap.

Has Corbyn demonstrated any capacity to appeal to these voters?

I agree that the decline in Labour's industrial base is a big problem, but nothing I've seen from Corbyn indicates he has the solution. The number one reason he's not a good leader is that he's a bad communicator, not necessarily his message.

 

[BigAl1992]

Oh THIS is interesting:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 4m4 minutes ago
Labour NEC votes for six month membership freeze date and two days for registered supporters with £25 fee.

Even more interesting:

Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 10m10 minutes ago
Only members who joined before Feb will be allowed to vote in Labour leadership election.

Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 8m8 minutes ago
Corbyn's army of £3 supporters will need to re-register and pay £25 fee. And huge number of new arrivals can't vote.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I think someone else will emerge from the shadows in the coming weeks.

pray for jarvis

 

[Deleted member 231381]

But if it weren't open to the £3 type members, would Momentum feel like such a strong force? Right now his 'mandate' feels stronger because of such vocal support, but if it were harder to join, would it feel more like something that could be challenged by now?

Momentum is pretty heavily staffed by students. Not exclusively, but they're the foot soldiers. It costs £1 a year to join Labour as a student. Even joining at standard rate costs £3.92 a month. So no, I don't think it will have much impact.

 

[ferrasvansen]

pray for jarvis

Might be Labours only chance but I don't think he will, think Labour will split now, maybe it's for the best.

 

[whyamihere]

I'm still pretty baffled that you have to pay to join a political party in the UK.

 

[Hazzuh]

"Corbyn didn't stay for the freeze date vote. Had he done, Unite amendment on shorter period would have passed."

Jesus christ.

 

[Hasney]

I think someone else will emerge from the shadows in the coming weeks.

Who's that Labour MP?!

Why it's someone to split the vote against Corbyn!

They have barely any chance of winning unless Eagle steps down. It'll be a mess if there's not just one contender.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Who's that Labour MP?!

Why it's someone to split the vote against Corbyn!

They have barely any chance of winning unless Eagle steps down. It'll be a mess if there's not just one contender.

Oh I think she would, given that I reckon she has no chance of winning, she would likely step aside if someone decent would stand.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I'm still pretty baffled that you have to pay to join a political party in the UK.

Parties here have their funding much more tightly regulated than in America; it's necessary for funding when you can't go cap in hand to Wall Street. It's standard in most countries that aren't America, where you just have to pay in dignity.

 

[Goodlife]

"Corbyn didn't stay for the freeze date vote. Had he done, Unite amendment on shorter period would have passed."

Jesus christ.

He was told to leave, wasn't he?

 

[whyamihere]

Parties here have their funding much more tightly regulated than in America; it's necessary for funding when you can't go cap in hand to Wall Street. It's standard in most countries that aren't America, where you just have to pay in dignity.

From an outsider perspective, it puts a burden on the poor to be able to join parties and have a say in the leadership process.

 

[Kurtofan]

I'm still pretty baffled that you have to pay to join a political party in the UK.

I don't think it's a uk thing, it's like that all over.

 

[twobear]

i wonder what happens if the labour right and centre leave, form a new party, and then win a GE with a minority

 

[Real Hero]

i wonder what happens if the labour right and centre leave, form a new party, and then win a GE with a minority

they would be irrelevant without the labour name

 

[sasliquid]

From my position the reason why Eagle is a poor candidate is that Corbyn, across the membership, was voted in on politics not personality or leadership. Now those latter two factors are why people are losing faith in him but instead of a throwing up someone with similar politics and strong leadership they are just th throwing up the same thing he beat last time.m

 

[Deleted member 231381]

From an outsider perspective, it puts a burden on the poor to be able to join parties and have a say in the leadership process.

Traditionally, Labour was a "shell" party - it was essentially organized and run by the trade unions. Being an actual member of the party was relatively rare, and on paper the Conservatives always had larger membership. This was because, as the trade unions decided, anyone who is a Labour affiliate can vote in the Labour leadership, and by being a member of an affiliated trade union you are yourself an affiliate. So the poor could always vote without having to pay as long as they were a member of a union (or other similar organizations, including working men's clubs, which used to be bastions of support for the unemployed).

That's an outdated system now because Thatcher gutted the unions, but it was never really reformed because by the time the impact was really clear, Blair basically ran the Labour Party like a personal fief and actually liked the fact participating in the party was difficult. There were cautious reforms under Miliband, so that joining if you are unemployed is only £1.92 a month, or $2.50 a month in US terms. They've not gone further than that because the Labour Party is already in a critical financial position and couldn't afford to do so; they'd need political parties to receive state funding, but the Conservatives have always opposed that because they're much wealthier. Should have been done under Blair, but again, Blair.

 

[Sean C]

From an outsider perspective, it puts a burden on the poor to be able to join parties and have a say in the leadership process.

The thing is, in most countries, political parties are purely private organizations. Labour pays for its own leadership contests out of pocket. So if you want to join, you pay.

The American primary system is only viable because states pay for it out of the public purse.

I don't think it's a uk thing, it's like that all over.

Yes, it's pretty similar in most countries. The Canadian Liberal Party recently did away with paid memberships to vote in favour of trying to become a "movement", because I guess their projections are that they can make more by expanding their email list via adding more supporters and then pestering them for donations.

 

[mr-paul]

I think it's disgusting that they've limited those eligible to vote. Why shouldn't those who've joined in the last six months have their say? They're just as much of a member as anyone else.

And then if you're going to limit those eligible to vote, don't let people get around it for a fee of £25. It's money grabbing, not real democracy, and not very inclusive at all.

 

[whyamihere]

Traditionally, Labour was a "shell" party - it was essentially organized and run by the trade unions. Being an actual member of the party was relatively rare, and on paper the Conservatives always had larger membership. This was because, as the trade unions decided, anyone who is a Labour affiliate can vote in the Labour leadership, and by being a member of an affiliated trade union you are yourself an affiliate. So the poor could always vote without having to pay as long as they were a member of a union (or other similar organizations, including working men's clubs, which used to be bastions of support for the unemployed).

That's an outdated system now because Thatcher gutted the unions, but it was never really reformed because by the time the impact was really clear, Blair basically ran the Labour Party like a personal fief and actually liked the fact participating in the party was difficult. There were cautious reforms under Miliband, so that joining if you are unemployed is only £1.92 a month, or $2.50 a month in US terms. They've not gone further than that because the Labour Party is already in a critical financial position and couldn't afford to do so; they'd need political parties to receive state funding, but the Conservatives have always opposed that because they're much wealthier. Should have been done under Blair, but again, Blair

That makes more sense and I understand why (though still disagree with the concept), but asking for £25 is absurd.

 

[Morat]

I think it's disgusting that they've limited those eligible to vote. Why shouldn't those who've joined in the last six months have their say? They're just as much of a member as anyone else.

And then if you're going to limit those eligible to vote, don't let people get around it for a fee of £25. It's money grabbing, not real democracy, and not very inclusive at all.

It does seem pretty pathetic, and rather transparent in its intent. Can't say it make the party look good.

 

[sasliquid]

So wait

Cos I joined Labour after the election I can't vote for the leader?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

That makes more sense and I understand why (though still disagree with the concept), but asking for £25 is absurd.

That's purely political. They want to shut students out. It's never been that high before.

I agree the system is imperfect. I prefer the more tightly regulated financing to the American system, because PACs and SuperPACs are pretty horrifically corrosive for democracy, but UK parties really need state subventions to keep going. Basically, Scandinavia has it right, again.

Bloody Scandinavians.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

So wait

Cos I joined Labour after the election I can't vote for the leader?

It'll be six months from whenever the leadership vote is, which will probably be in September or something, so as long as you joined in, uh, I'd guess in February or at least before mid-March, you'll be alright.

If you joined than that, you'll need to cough up £25.

 

[cilonen]

So wait

Cos I joined Labour after the election I can't vote for the leader?

After which election? If you mean the last general election, then you should be fine as the cutoff is six months back from now, effectively February of this year.

 

[sasliquid]

It'll be six months from whenever the leadership vote is, which will probably be in September or something, so as long as you joined in, uh, I'd guess in February or at least before mid-March, you'll be alright.

If you joined than that, you'll need to cough up £25.

By election I meant referendum so I'm screwed

Well unless they reverse this I guess I'll go back to getting Green membership

 

[Johnlenham]

Im still not getting why people in his own party dont back him though?
Like the media crucify him which is what Joey "The Sun reader" Blogs votes based off
but how does he get into the party, stay in the party and then get to a leader postion with views that seemingly 80% of his party dont agree with?

Why does the party not say "ok hes the guy thats been picked, lets get behind him" because all the infighting is what makes the party look a joke. I mean milliband was a joke and surely didnt have half as much support at corbyn does now. All these people being thrown up are just limp replacements from what i can tell

 

[Maledict]

Im still not getting why people in his own party dont back him though?
Like the media crucify him which is what Joey "The Sun reader" Blogs votes based off
but how does he get into the party, stay in the party and then get to a leader postion with views that seemingly 80% of his party dont agree with?

Why does the party not say "ok hes the guy thats been picked, lets get behind him" because all the infighting is what makes the party look a joke. I mean milliband was a joke and surely didnt have half as much support at corbyn does now. All these people being thrown up are just limp replacements from what i can tell

Ed Miliband was 8 points ahead of Corbyn in the polls at this cycle (before May gets a boost).

Corbyn is performing *terribly* - historically badly. And you can't put that down to infighting, given that both Blair and Miliband suffered worse and did better.

(worse up until this point that is!).

 

[Hazzuh]

Ed Miliband was 8 points ahead of Corbyn in the polls at this cycle (before May gets a boost).

Corbyn is performing *terribly* - historically badly. And you can't put that down to infighting, given that both Blair and Miliband suffered worse and did better.

(worse up until this point that is!).

He's doing slightly better than Foot actually

Oppo ldr ratings after 9 mths:
Foot -27
Kinnock 0
Smith +1
Blair +23
Hague -19
IDS - 9
Howard -16
Cameron -1
Ed M -14

Corbyn -25

 

[Chinner]

Corbyn preaches to the converted. He doesn't appeal to those voters in the North who feel abandoned.

 

[Jezbollah]

Corbyn should never have been elected leader. He is completely out of his depth.

 

[mr-paul]

From the signup page to become a £3 supporter

Registered Supporters

Registered Supporters will also have an individual vote at future Labour Party leadership elections and, if they are on the electoral register in London, the Primary for Labour’s candidate for London Mayor. They will be required to pay a small fee to participate in such elections.

Labour Party members can sign up to be a Registered Supporter, but they will still only receive a single vote in any selection in which registered supporters are entitled to participate.

It doesn't put any length of support on it. So surely they've got to let everyone who voted in last year's leadership election vote this time too?

 

[Best]

These voting rules have just added to the clusterfuck surrounding this. No matter how fiercely the fire burns they keep chucking fuel on it. I've always voted labour up until now but fuck this bag of cunts. I hope the party splits now.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

From the signup page to become a £3 supporter



It doesn't put any length of support on it. So surely they've got to let everyone who voted in last year's leadership election vote this time too?

If you read carefully, it says:

Registered Supporters will also have an individual vote at future Labour Party leadership elections and, if they are on the electoral register in London, the Primary for Labour’s candidate for London Mayor. They will be required to pay a small fee to participate in such elections.

 

[Thornton Reed]

Oh for fuck sake that testicle face useless bag of poop is on the ballot. Bye bye decent opposition party. The Labour Party has been high jacked by a bunch of deluded militants

 

[ferrasvansen]

If Theresa May goes for an election now, it could be a massacre like never before. I reckon she would be foolish not to take advantage of Labours state of affairs, just like Gordon Brown hesitated while ahead in the polls.

 

[Jezbollah]

If Theresa May goes for an election now, it could be a massacre like never before. I reckon she would be foolish not to take advantage of Labours state of affairs, just like Gordon Brown hesitated while ahead in the polls.

If she puts together a solid cabinet and gets a good sense of post-brexit unity in the next couple of weeks then I think it's a really good chance we will see a snap election called.

 

[Uzzy]

Guess this part of the Labour website will need updating.

Where could my membership take me?

As a member, you’ll be a key part of the team. You’ll be eligible to vote in leadership elections, you can help shape party policy, you can attend local meetings and you can even stand as a candidate.

So whether you want to chip in to help us reach our goals because you share our values, or because you have ambitions to serve your community and country, the only place to start is through joining the Labour Party as a member.