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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Character change stuff:
-Akuma:
"after leveling up Frank West Samurai Edge synergizes well with Frank Wests paddle saws" needs a comma, i.e., "after leveling up Frank West, Samurai Edge synergizes well with Frank Wests paddle saws"
"they should not be getting much or at all." should read "they should not be getting hit much or at all."
-Amaterasu:
"rather than keep the strong version of the assist to only one character simply for the sake of exclusivity" should read "rather than give the strong version of the assist to only one character simply for the sake of exclusivity". "Keep" doesn't make sense as the verb here.
I'm still skeptical of allowing meter gain during veil of mist (meter building assists would be fine though, since they can only be called once per combo). What's to stop someone from doing Ammy combo -> end in veil of mist -> DHC into astral vision -> steal all of your opponent's meter while killing them with soul drain juggles? Or even worse: Ammy combo -> veil of mist -> DHC into astral -> steal tons of meter while building a ton yourself with soul drains -> launch and TAC to Ammy -> rinse and repeat (i.e., possible infinite). Veil of mist doesn't last THAT long, but stuff like soul drain combos could still be possible at max HSD scaling and if so, it would wreck the greater reward of proper meter management we are supposedly trying to encourage with this patch while also allowing potentially unforeseen exceedingly high damage situations to arise, which are another thing we are trying to avoid.
In this sentence, the comma placement seems weird. "The universal air dash nerf was applied equally to all characters even though all characters do not have the same air dash, and as a result Amaterasu, is only ever played on the anchor position" Seems like it should be something like, "The universal air dash nerf was applied equally to all characters even though all characters do not have the same air dash, and as a result Amaterasu is only ever played on the anchor position" (no comma after Amaterasu)
-Arthur:
"By making Cross Sword special cancelable, it is now more like M.O.D.O.K.s Shield Barrier, which protects him from advancement for a small period of time if he plays it smart." I would change "smart" to "smartly" or "well"
"By reducing the recovery, he can now convert easier and use it as a mid-screen anti air with an increased degree of safety." I think it would be better to say "more easily" rather than "easier"
-Captain America:
"It is not enough that he can simply OTG into Hyper Charging Star for recent damage" should probably read "It is not enough that he can simply OTG into Hyper Charging Star for decent damage" assuming I properly understand what's being said.
-Chris:
I'm worried gun fire L will be too good with a 15 frame start-up, considering it's quite positive on block. It's quite a large reduction from it's current 25 frame start-up. (Too late for these kinds of complaints? Haha)
-Deadpool:
You mention ninja gift M's OTG properties, but it has no such properties (as far as I'm aware, and I tested it a bit to double check) and we're not buffing it (as far as I know) to change this. Where did this come from? (or am I missing something?)
-Dormammu:
There are randomly two spaces between "excellent" and "against" in the 2D1C explanation. Super minor issue, but might as well fix it.
Just after the above mentioned change, "combod" is written and seems off... but I have no idea a better way to spell this logically. Thoughts? (comboed... combo'd... either seems better than what we have)
-Hsien Ko:
In the bit about the projectile durability buff, I would just change "but Anki Hou has the lowest possible durability for a projectile: 1" to "but Anki Hou has the lowest possible durability for a projectile: 1 low durability point" just for the sake of thoroughness.
-Hulk:
I know it's late for significant changes, but what do you guys think of giving him a bit of x-factor speed boost (as he gets none currently) and subsequently lowering his x-factor damage boost in a corresponding equivalent way?
This is as far as I've gotten so far- I'll do the rest tomorrow (hopefully!).
-Akuma:
"after leveling up Frank West Samurai Edge synergizes well with Frank Wests paddle saws" needs a comma, i.e., "after leveling up Frank West, Samurai Edge synergizes well with Frank Wests paddle saws"
"they should not be getting much or at all." should read "they should not be getting hit much or at all."
-Amaterasu:
"rather than keep the strong version of the assist to only one character simply for the sake of exclusivity" should read "rather than give the strong version of the assist to only one character simply for the sake of exclusivity". "Keep" doesn't make sense as the verb here.
I'm still skeptical of allowing meter gain during veil of mist (meter building assists would be fine though, since they can only be called once per combo). What's to stop someone from doing Ammy combo -> end in veil of mist -> DHC into astral vision -> steal all of your opponent's meter while killing them with soul drain juggles? Or even worse: Ammy combo -> veil of mist -> DHC into astral -> steal tons of meter while building a ton yourself with soul drains -> launch and TAC to Ammy -> rinse and repeat (i.e., possible infinite). Veil of mist doesn't last THAT long, but stuff like soul drain combos could still be possible at max HSD scaling and if so, it would wreck the greater reward of proper meter management we are supposedly trying to encourage with this patch while also allowing potentially unforeseen exceedingly high damage situations to arise, which are another thing we are trying to avoid.
In this sentence, the comma placement seems weird. "The universal air dash nerf was applied equally to all characters even though all characters do not have the same air dash, and as a result Amaterasu, is only ever played on the anchor position" Seems like it should be something like, "The universal air dash nerf was applied equally to all characters even though all characters do not have the same air dash, and as a result Amaterasu is only ever played on the anchor position" (no comma after Amaterasu)
-Arthur:
"By making Cross Sword special cancelable, it is now more like M.O.D.O.K.s Shield Barrier, which protects him from advancement for a small period of time if he plays it smart." I would change "smart" to "smartly" or "well"
"By reducing the recovery, he can now convert easier and use it as a mid-screen anti air with an increased degree of safety." I think it would be better to say "more easily" rather than "easier"
-Captain America:
"It is not enough that he can simply OTG into Hyper Charging Star for recent damage" should probably read "It is not enough that he can simply OTG into Hyper Charging Star for decent damage" assuming I properly understand what's being said.
-Chris:
I'm worried gun fire L will be too good with a 15 frame start-up, considering it's quite positive on block. It's quite a large reduction from it's current 25 frame start-up. (Too late for these kinds of complaints? Haha)
-Deadpool:
You mention ninja gift M's OTG properties, but it has no such properties (as far as I'm aware, and I tested it a bit to double check) and we're not buffing it (as far as I know) to change this. Where did this come from? (or am I missing something?)
-Dormammu:
There are randomly two spaces between "excellent" and "against" in the 2D1C explanation. Super minor issue, but might as well fix it.
Just after the above mentioned change, "combod" is written and seems off... but I have no idea a better way to spell this logically. Thoughts? (comboed... combo'd... either seems better than what we have)
-Hsien Ko:
In the bit about the projectile durability buff, I would just change "but Anki Hou has the lowest possible durability for a projectile: 1" to "but Anki Hou has the lowest possible durability for a projectile: 1 low durability point" just for the sake of thoroughness.
-Hulk:
I know it's late for significant changes, but what do you guys think of giving him a bit of x-factor speed boost (as he gets none currently) and subsequently lowering his x-factor damage boost in a corresponding equivalent way?
This is as far as I've gotten so far- I'll do the rest tomorrow (hopefully!).
Huw_Dawson
Member
Capcom Cup is the endgame. If no Marvel news is present, I think the dream will be dead.
I really hope they're planning something. Marvel badly needs some fixes, or it is going to taper off hard next year as more people optimise their teams.
Until the Capcom panel at Evo 2014...
I really hope they're planning something. Marvel badly needs some fixes, or it is going to taper off hard next year as more people optimise their teams.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yeah, you are right. Since XB1 and PS4 are out so I'm cautiously hoping that they would renew the license and do Marvel vs. Capcom 4. I'm not sure how hard it would take a team to port Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 to XB1 and PS4 and add new features, characters and stages from there. Since Marvel itself is middle of perfect moment where many casuals know what Marvel are due to their successful with the movies, and their cartoons. They should add few more important characters from the movies or cartoons, such as Thanos, Loki, etc.
Sorry for derailing the thread.
I do not understand the first part. Can someone explain what they're talking about?
Huw_Dawson
Member
Nerfs to vortex characters and the implementation of delayed wakeup to add another defensive option when waking up. Both help remove vortex from the game, which allowed certain characters to employ safe oki setups and reduced the game to 50/50 or worse guesses following a knockdown.
"One player game" refer to a situation where your opponent does not even get a chance to play.
In terms of UMVC3, it refers to some of the situations outlined below.
Examples:
1) Good Zero teams which can convert any hit into death via lightning loops. Then zero gets the next character with a ridiculous 6 layer deep mixup into death. Rinse and repeat for their anchor character.
2) An optimized firebrand team, which can land a hit and proceed to decimate an entire team with repeated unblockable setups which are meter neutral and guaranteed on incoming,
3) Morrigan + Hidden Missiles soul fist zoning.
Morrigan proceeds to fill the screen with ridiculous soul fist zoning that some characters have no answer to. Thus preventing the other player from playing.
(I think this counts)
You guys let me know if any of these examples are not entirely accurate or don't count under what we normally consider a "one player game" situation.
EDIT: Huw has done a great job of explaining what it means in terms of SF4.
Yeah MorriDoom while not the exact same thing as a Zero team.... it's basically on the other side of the spectrum in terms of "single player game". Where as a Zero team initiates the one player game when it hits you... MorriDoom initiates its one player game when AV are up and you block a set of Missiles. After that time you can't really attack, you just stall until AV is up only because you end up blocking some missiles and some Soul Fists the AV activation is self funded repeating the cycle again.
I also consider Vergil + Missiles to be in a similar category of "single player" game. Vergil can also almost self fund every SS activation with RT glitch and Missiles on block leading to ridiculous amounts of chip and lockdown.
I also consider Vergil + Missiles to be in a similar category of "single player" game. Vergil can also almost self fund every SS activation with RT glitch and Missiles on block leading to ridiculous amounts of chip and lockdown.
Good description of how Morrigan/Doom is a one player game situation and how it differs from the other examples.
I also agree that Vergil with RT glitch + Hidden Missiles also qualifies as one.
Zero and Dormammu can also set up a single player type of game with Missiles and Dark Harmonizer as well. Zero can get meter for Sogenmu with Missiles and Dorm can do the same while piling on the Stalking Flare.
And while not exactly "single player", Mag plus Missiles is extremely oppressive and damn near impossible to overcome for certain characters. Not to mention the unblockables with MODOK we saw yesterday using Missiles to set them up.
You guys see that pattern? People complain about Zero a lot but Missiles beats fruit to a lot of single player style situations in this game as well. The main difference between Missiles and Zero one player is that Missiles do the process slowly and does it in the neutral while Zero does it when he hits you. Ironically Missiles keep Zero in check to a certain degree and Zero nullifies Missiles if he hits.
And while not exactly "single player", Mag plus Missiles is extremely oppressive and damn near impossible to overcome for certain characters. Not to mention the unblockables with MODOK we saw yesterday using Missiles to set them up.
You guys see that pattern? People complain about Zero a lot but Missiles beats fruit to a lot of single player style situations in this game as well. The main difference between Missiles and Zero one player is that Missiles do the process slowly and does it in the neutral while Zero does it when he hits you. Ironically Missiles keep Zero in check to a certain degree and Zero nullifies Missiles if he hits.
I'd try out Zero/Morrigan/Vergil if I didn't hate using Morrigan.
I'd just gain meter, spam projectiles, call rapid when I need them to back off and rinse and repeat. Deff would be fun.
So my 100% main team is Zero/Akuma/Vergil. Akumas mostly there just for that tatsu. Shit provides Zero so much pressure and left-right mixups, I fucking love it. Gotta level up my Akuma though. Dunno how to really make him work with rapid slash. Gotta figure out some mixups! And lastly, we got the homie Vergil in the back for that life insurance.
The one thing I hope capcom doesn't take away from Zero (if this patch even happens of course) is his pressure and mixup game. Keep that the same and you can take away LL loops and 1 touch death shit. Just lemme keep that pressure game.
I'd just gain meter, spam projectiles, call rapid when I need them to back off and rinse and repeat. Deff would be fun.
So my 100% main team is Zero/Akuma/Vergil. Akumas mostly there just for that tatsu. Shit provides Zero so much pressure and left-right mixups, I fucking love it. Gotta level up my Akuma though. Dunno how to really make him work with rapid slash. Gotta figure out some mixups! And lastly, we got the homie Vergil in the back for that life insurance.
The one thing I hope capcom doesn't take away from Zero (if this patch even happens of course) is his pressure and mixup game. Keep that the same and you can take away LL loops and 1 touch death shit. Just lemme keep that pressure game.
"God's Beard!"
Member
whoo, up to 950k for corner Dante combos with a DHC!
Now I need to learn a midscreen BnB <_<
Now I need to learn a midscreen BnB <_<
The Mango Sentinel
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";93084703]whoo, up to 950k for corner Dante combos with a DHC!
Now I need to learn a midscreen BnB <_<[/QUOTE]
You mean a regular bnb or a God's Beard special?
I don't even know why I'm asking. Love your combos though! Post that Hawkeye gif....shit gets me going.
Now I need to learn a midscreen BnB <_<[/QUOTE]
You mean a regular bnb or a God's Beard special?
I don't even know why I'm asking. Love your combos though! Post that Hawkeye gif....shit gets me going.
As far as his mix up/pressure game goes the main OP stuff about Zero are:
*Command dash into a Buster for an instant cross up that is safe and leads into a full combo (makes Wolverine's B Slash look fair)
*Sogenmu unblockables and pressure set ups
*Using the first volley of Lightning to lock someone in place for incoming mix ups then use the real mix ups (and this by itself can be turned into a mix up)
The 3rd thing would be fixed in our patch in the "Lightning loses hit box after Buster cancel" change. The rest would still be in tact for the most part. The scaling changes would at least mean that doing a command dash into Buster mix up would lead to far less damage.
*Command dash into a Buster for an instant cross up that is safe and leads into a full combo (makes Wolverine's B Slash look fair)
*Sogenmu unblockables and pressure set ups
*Using the first volley of Lightning to lock someone in place for incoming mix ups then use the real mix ups (and this by itself can be turned into a mix up)
The 3rd thing would be fixed in our patch in the "Lightning loses hit box after Buster cancel" change. The rest would still be in tact for the most part. The scaling changes would at least mean that doing a command dash into Buster mix up would lead to far less damage.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Here's the old version, short and sweet:
The new one I'm working on for Hawkeye/Vergil/Shuma gets kinda dumb. It's like 1.1 million damage for two bars off a stray Hawkeye arrow from fullscreen.
Nah soug pressure is fair, the unblockable part isn't. And ya I'd still want dash-buster with him, less damage is fine. I don't see how you'd get rid of soug unblockables without fucking up soug though lol.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";93100150]Here's the old version, short and sweet:
The new one I'm working on for Hawkeye/Vergil/Shuma gets kinda dumb. It's like 1.1 million damage for two bars off a stray Hawkeye arrow from fullscreen.[/QUOTE]
Thank you sir. Make a gif of the new one once you've got that shit down.
The new one I'm working on for Hawkeye/Vergil/Shuma gets kinda dumb. It's like 1.1 million damage for two bars off a stray Hawkeye arrow from fullscreen.[/QUOTE]
Thank you sir. Make a gif of the new one once you've got that shit down.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Sure thing. I've neglected the team a little bit to focus on Dante but I definitely intend to keep both teams.
I was reading through the proposed changelog and noticed a few potential oddities:
Dante:
"Giving him a faster s.L..."
Aren't you giving him a 6-frame c.L and only a c.L? His s.L would presumably remain the same speed.
Wesker:
"-Wesker now receives his glasses buff from Phantom Dance only when it goes to completion.....whether it hits or not too silly."
I just wanted to clarify if the glasses only come off on hit or on block as well. "To completion" sounds like the glasses come off as long as the super finishes. The "whether it hits or not" makes it sound like Wesker has to land a hit before the glasses come off.
"-Phantom Dance may no longer cross up....We recommend leaving the Wesker character hitbox on one side of the screen while Wesker dances around the screen"
I'm a little confused by the recommendation. By his character hitbox, do you mean his hurtbox? Because that would mean his hurtbox is at one location while his model is on another. That seems like a pretty big problem.
Dante:
"Giving him a faster s.L..."
Aren't you giving him a 6-frame c.L and only a c.L? His s.L would presumably remain the same speed.
Wesker:
"-Wesker now receives his glasses buff from Phantom Dance only when it goes to completion.....whether it hits or not too silly."
I just wanted to clarify if the glasses only come off on hit or on block as well. "To completion" sounds like the glasses come off as long as the super finishes. The "whether it hits or not" makes it sound like Wesker has to land a hit before the glasses come off.
"-Phantom Dance may no longer cross up....We recommend leaving the Wesker character hitbox on one side of the screen while Wesker dances around the screen"
I'm a little confused by the recommendation. By his character hitbox, do you mean his hurtbox? Because that would mean his hurtbox is at one location while his model is on another. That seems like a pretty big problem.
Good catch, that's a typo. I will PM Karst with this. It's supposed to say c.L not s.L.
It needs to be rephrased but its supposed to say that you only get the buff if you actually hit with it.
Another typo, that is in fact supposed to say hurt box not hit box. Although even then the fix is not sufficient.
Essentially what is supposed to happen is that Wesker's "core" is to remain at the spot and that core is supposed to correlate his position in terms of cross up or not. Wesker would still have his hit box/hurt box fly around like say Dhalsim throwing out his limbs. You can snuff out Wesker normally or where his "core" is.
I honestly told Karst that we should just leave the fix to Capcom in fact I am going to suggest that to him anyway.
lol
Expect some ignorant backlash from people who don't read it all clearly.
I hope there is a real patch announcement at Capcom Cup,
I don't think it'll be cause people won't read correctly, ppl will backlash cause they just don't agree. All of this stuff just comes down to opinion (besides the obvious broken stuff)
I bet the minute people see the Morrigan changes, they're gonna go ape shit lmfao. Can't wait till this rolls out myself.
And I hope to god we get at least another sign of something happening to this game at capcom cup.
That and context is pretty important for a lot of these changes. In many case they only make sense when you take all of the other changes into account in the first place.
And obviously people will disagree with some changes outright.
But I really think the changelist does a lot of good for the lower and mid tier characters who do need buffs.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Speaking of Jill, what is the practical use of Mad Beast. I get you can dash through things but you can't block and you jumps are nerfed. Even if it helps her combos, there is no way in hell it's worth 3 bars. I've never ran into any Jill's that incorporated it into their gameplay, as far as I know. Any thoughts?
There are some cool mad beast specific combos. But other than that I don't think its terribly useful. Especially since she can't block normally during it. (IIRC she can still block low, but any other direction causes a feral dash)
Ghazi can elaborate more, I just dabble in Jill.
The practical use of Mad Beast is that it's good cannon fodder for lobbying to get Jill buffed.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
It's a horrible lvl 3. If it was a lvl 1 then it would be legit. As it is, I only use it to chip people out during blockstrings, and only if they're on their last character.
Karsticles
Member
PM me changes guys! Post them here for discussion, but PM them to me so I can keep track of everything please. Trying to track forum posts is part of why there were so many mistakes in the first draft.
man i play this game so much better when i have a huge cup of black coffee in me. currently running a 21 game win streak because of it. anybody else like this? i also do okay when i've had green tea before playing. don't really drink energy drinks so i don't know how i would do on them.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I play MUCH better when I'm buzzing. Mostly because I don't give a shit if I win or lose, but it also seems to get me thinking on the fly a lot better. Every time I go to a tournament I have about 6 beers in me or something.
It makes you a rushdown monster. It also makes Jill too fast for 9/5/10 players to control properly.
I'm working on going through the annotations, so I'll either have it done later today, or tomorrow. The 'deadline' is tomorrow, right?
Don't drink caffeine or alcohol, but I do notice huge drops in my play if I don't drink water in between matches. Gotta stay hydrated, otherwise I suck.
I slam down energy drinks when I'm playing well to keep my streak going. A beer or two is just a nice accompaniment.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'll make the contributor list after class tomorrow then.
biosnake20
Member
Great job guys I didn't contribute as much as I wanted to but a it's a fantastic change list nonetheless. Except for the part where akuma's demon doesn't deal 900k.
Character change stuff (cont.):
-Hulk:
In the bit about gamma tornado, I would change the wording from "less far away" to "a shorter distance away" It just sounds more natural/less awkward.
Upon re-reading and reevaluating the gamma quake change, it seems kind of crazy to me. Now he now he not only gets completely safe gamma charges, but gets a risk free mix-up off of one too? Seems like we're just making a YOLO character more YOLO.
-Iron Fist:
I would change the wording here from "Iron Fury is a watered-down Bionic Lancer for all intents and purposes." to "Iron Fury is essentially a watered-down Bionic Lancer." It's less wordy and flows better.
In the untechable throw time header, "+Untechable time after an air and ground throw increased." it should read "+Untechable time after an air or ground throw increased." or "+Untechable time after air and ground throws increased."
-Iron Man:
"post dash acceleration" hyphenated to "post-dash acceleration"
"whiffs in many occasions" should be either "whiffs in many situations" or "whiffs on many occasions" (I think situations sounds better)
Immediately after the above, "unsafe" needs a comma after it, and immediately after that, "blocked" also needs a comma after it.
In the smart bomb buff header, it is more correct to say "descends more slowly" rather than "decends slower"
You could make this sentence correct by adding commas "Smart Bombs are in general a very bad zoning tool" but I think it would better to just change it to "Smart Bombs are generally a very bad zoning tool"
This block "The problem with buffing Smart Bombs in terms of speed/recovery is that the move is also used for Iron Man combos and making them faster would result in unintended combos. Instead we opted to give the Smart Bombs more utility." would need a comma after "Instead" (and after "combos") to make it grammatically correct, but I think it would work better as single sentence like this, "The problem with buffing Smart Bombs in terms of speed/recovery is that it would result in unintended combos, so we opted to give the Smart Bombs more utility instead."
Immediately after the above, this block is missing a comma after "First" and is a bit of a run-on sentence, "First the different types of Smart Bomb are fired at different angles/trajectories so you have more space control rather than just firing all Smart Bombs at a fixed location on the screen which can easily be avoided by opponents." so I would change it to something like, "First, the different types of Smart Bomb can fired at different angles/trajectories so you have more varied space control options rather than controlling space at a single fixed location which can easily be avoided."
In this block, "These bombs are meant to be more reminiscent of his MVC2 Smart Bombs which travel slower but their persistence on the screen while Iron Man descends down allowed him to zone better while creating more opportunities to set up a game plan." I would change the wording to "These bombs are meant to be more reminiscent of his MVC2 Smart Bombs which travel more slowly, where their persistence on the screen allowed Iron Man to zone better while creating more opportunities to set up a game plan."
In the proton cannon changes, in this sentence, "Iron Man is mostly used as a support character but one of the things that hold him back from being a great support character is that he lacks a safe DHC in hyper." a comma is needed after "support character" and the wording could be changed to make it a little more clear, "Iron Man is mostly used as a support character, but one of the things that hold him back from being a great support character is that he lacks a safe hyper to DHC in."
"Proton Cannon has one of the worst recovery in the game while also having a very slow start up for the beam." Recovery needs to be pluralized like this, "Proton Cannon has one of the worst recoveries in the game while also having a very slow start up for the beam."
This sentence, "One of the options was to either make the Proton Cannon have faster start up so it could be used to snipe opponents from across the screen like Chaotic Flame but we felt that making it safer would be a better way to improve the hyper." needs a comma after "Chaotic Flame."
Just for understandibility, I would change the wording on this block, "Right now cr.M has a lot of range but other normals in IM don't match that range meaning there are times where you get nearly nothing out of a max range cr.M hit. The situations are rare but for parity sake we recommended this change." to this, "Right now, cr.M has a lot of range, but Iron Man's other normals don't match that range, so there are times where you get nearly nothing out of a max range cr.M hit. This is rare, but for the sake of consistency, we recommend this change."
In the Iron Avenger changes, there are some minor wording/comma/etc. issues, and I would change it from this "This is just a quality of life change. Most hypers have generous hit boxes on them to make sure that you are well rewarded for your investment but it seemed like Capcom forgot about Iron Avenger. There are times when Iron Avenger would cleanly go under a juggled opponent and those times are enough to frustrate even the calmest of players or lose a very clutch match." to something like this "This is just a quality of life change. Most hypers have generous hit boxes on them to make sure that you are well rewarded for your meter investment, but it seemed like Iron Avenger was forgotten. There are times when Iron Avenger would frustratingly go under a juggled opponent, and it should be more consistent."
The beginning of the damaging scaling change sentence, "For parity sake we feel that specials should only scale to a maximum of 20% for all characters with the only exceptions being characters who are powered up by special means (like Turnabout Phoenix Wright or Dark Phoenix)." should read "For the sake of parity, we feel that specials should only scale to a maximum of 20% for all characters with the only exceptions being characters who are powered up by special means (like Turnabout Phoenix Wright or Dark Phoenix)."
-Hulk:
In the bit about gamma tornado, I would change the wording from "less far away" to "a shorter distance away" It just sounds more natural/less awkward.
Upon re-reading and reevaluating the gamma quake change, it seems kind of crazy to me. Now he now he not only gets completely safe gamma charges, but gets a risk free mix-up off of one too? Seems like we're just making a YOLO character more YOLO.
-Iron Fist:
I would change the wording here from "Iron Fury is a watered-down Bionic Lancer for all intents and purposes." to "Iron Fury is essentially a watered-down Bionic Lancer." It's less wordy and flows better.
In the untechable throw time header, "+Untechable time after an air and ground throw increased." it should read "+Untechable time after an air or ground throw increased." or "+Untechable time after air and ground throws increased."
-Iron Man:
"post dash acceleration" hyphenated to "post-dash acceleration"
"whiffs in many occasions" should be either "whiffs in many situations" or "whiffs on many occasions" (I think situations sounds better)
Immediately after the above, "unsafe" needs a comma after it, and immediately after that, "blocked" also needs a comma after it.
In the smart bomb buff header, it is more correct to say "descends more slowly" rather than "decends slower"
You could make this sentence correct by adding commas "Smart Bombs are in general a very bad zoning tool" but I think it would better to just change it to "Smart Bombs are generally a very bad zoning tool"
This block "The problem with buffing Smart Bombs in terms of speed/recovery is that the move is also used for Iron Man combos and making them faster would result in unintended combos. Instead we opted to give the Smart Bombs more utility." would need a comma after "Instead" (and after "combos") to make it grammatically correct, but I think it would work better as single sentence like this, "The problem with buffing Smart Bombs in terms of speed/recovery is that it would result in unintended combos, so we opted to give the Smart Bombs more utility instead."
Immediately after the above, this block is missing a comma after "First" and is a bit of a run-on sentence, "First the different types of Smart Bomb are fired at different angles/trajectories so you have more space control rather than just firing all Smart Bombs at a fixed location on the screen which can easily be avoided by opponents." so I would change it to something like, "First, the different types of Smart Bomb can fired at different angles/trajectories so you have more varied space control options rather than controlling space at a single fixed location which can easily be avoided."
In this block, "These bombs are meant to be more reminiscent of his MVC2 Smart Bombs which travel slower but their persistence on the screen while Iron Man descends down allowed him to zone better while creating more opportunities to set up a game plan." I would change the wording to "These bombs are meant to be more reminiscent of his MVC2 Smart Bombs which travel more slowly, where their persistence on the screen allowed Iron Man to zone better while creating more opportunities to set up a game plan."
In the proton cannon changes, in this sentence, "Iron Man is mostly used as a support character but one of the things that hold him back from being a great support character is that he lacks a safe DHC in hyper." a comma is needed after "support character" and the wording could be changed to make it a little more clear, "Iron Man is mostly used as a support character, but one of the things that hold him back from being a great support character is that he lacks a safe hyper to DHC in."
"Proton Cannon has one of the worst recovery in the game while also having a very slow start up for the beam." Recovery needs to be pluralized like this, "Proton Cannon has one of the worst recoveries in the game while also having a very slow start up for the beam."
This sentence, "One of the options was to either make the Proton Cannon have faster start up so it could be used to snipe opponents from across the screen like Chaotic Flame but we felt that making it safer would be a better way to improve the hyper." needs a comma after "Chaotic Flame."
Just for understandibility, I would change the wording on this block, "Right now cr.M has a lot of range but other normals in IM don't match that range meaning there are times where you get nearly nothing out of a max range cr.M hit. The situations are rare but for parity sake we recommended this change." to this, "Right now, cr.M has a lot of range, but Iron Man's other normals don't match that range, so there are times where you get nearly nothing out of a max range cr.M hit. This is rare, but for the sake of consistency, we recommend this change."
In the Iron Avenger changes, there are some minor wording/comma/etc. issues, and I would change it from this "This is just a quality of life change. Most hypers have generous hit boxes on them to make sure that you are well rewarded for your investment but it seemed like Capcom forgot about Iron Avenger. There are times when Iron Avenger would cleanly go under a juggled opponent and those times are enough to frustrate even the calmest of players or lose a very clutch match." to something like this "This is just a quality of life change. Most hypers have generous hit boxes on them to make sure that you are well rewarded for your meter investment, but it seemed like Iron Avenger was forgotten. There are times when Iron Avenger would frustratingly go under a juggled opponent, and it should be more consistent."
The beginning of the damaging scaling change sentence, "For parity sake we feel that specials should only scale to a maximum of 20% for all characters with the only exceptions being characters who are powered up by special means (like Turnabout Phoenix Wright or Dark Phoenix)." should read "For the sake of parity, we feel that specials should only scale to a maximum of 20% for all characters with the only exceptions being characters who are powered up by special means (like Turnabout Phoenix Wright or Dark Phoenix)."
Character change stuff (cont.... again):
-Jill:
Somehow I missed this earlier, but the machine gun spray buff is crazy. It does terrible damage if you throw it out there randomly, but that's not the point of the move. You can get full combos off of it by doing an assist beforehand or x-factoring, and it gets you in for free. You guys have to realize that currently, as a combo ender, it does damage on par with Raven Spike whet set up properly, i.e., when most of it hits. I went into training mode and did a basic Jill combo which did 411,000 damage pre-hyper and tried ending it with both MGS and Raven Spike. The Raven Spike ender made the combo do 546,300 damage while the MGS ender did 558,300, i.e., MORE damage. The current suggested buff to MGS is nearly double it's present damage- I shouldn't have to explain why this is nuts.
-Magneto:
In the mag blast nerf section, "When trying to figure out how to change the move without completely destroying the move or the character it was quite a challenge." doesn't need the "When" at the beginning.
-MODOK:
cr.L hitting nearby crouching character is stated as a "parity change" but isn't it more of a quality of life change? Saying it's a parity change doesn't really make any sense.
-Morrigan:
It seems like putting "in fact" at the end of this sentence is weird, "Finishing Shower is generally not a good hyper, in fact." and it'd be more normal to say, "In fact, finishing Shower is generally not a good hyper."
Random aside: Morrigan seems like she's getting better even taking into account the hidden missiles nerf- her changes will be a huge point of criticism with our change list.
-Nemesis:
In the bit about his buff to cr.H, I think it would sound slightly better to instead of saying, "We improved both of these aspects so he can feel more like the character he wants to be." to say, "We improved both of these aspects so he can feel more like the character he was meant to be."
In the part about the self-aiming rocket, we should clarify that Nemesis automatically aims the rockets, but it is not a homing rocket.
For the health stealing mechanic, yellow health, red health only, or both? It does not say (and it needs to).
-Nova:
Can you just say "suped"? It feels like you have to say "suped up". Thoughts?
"This is mostly because in situations where you have more than 400K red health if you used any Gravimetric special it would remove all of your red health." need commas: "This is mostly because in situations where you have more than 400K red health, if you used any Gravimetric special, it would remove all of your red health."
This sentence has some redundancies that could be cleaned up, "This meant that the situation where Nova was at his strongest (when he had red health) actually limited his capability as a character because his options would be limited." I would change it to "This meant that the situation where Nova was meant to be at his strongest (when he had red health), actually limited his options."
This block of text has wording and comma issues, "By having the moves that are boosted by red health attached to a S input (QCF+S+A) this would allow the Nova player to have more choices in how and when he chooses to expend his red health. By capping the red health loss this allows more efficient usage of his red health in that he would be allowed to chain two suped up moves together. This change is something that we feel would make the character more interesting." and would be better like this, "By having the moves that are boosted by red health attached to an S input (QCF+S+A), this would allow the Nova player to choose how and when he spends his red health. Capping the red health loss allows more efficient usage of his red health, would occasionally allow him to chain two powered-up moves together. This change is something that we feel would make the character more interesting and thoughtful."
Comma issues, "His cr.L is nothing to write home about, it doesn't even hit low. Nova lacks any real frame trap game or good block strings so making his cr.L +1 was really the only way to give him a bit of both." could be resolved by altering it to this, "His cr.L is nothing to write home about- it doesn't even hit low. Nova lacks any real frame trap game or good block strings, so making his cr.L +1 was a way to give him a bit of both."
Commas needed here too! Change this: "This is a change just for the assist version that we are implementing for the character to give him a better assist selection. If the move was ported wholesale as an assist without any change then this assist would make Strider irrelevant as a support character. It would basically be a Vajra assist without the risk of Nova using his own body to attack unlike Vajra who can be swatted out of the air like a fly. By making it soft down the assist still retains usability while not making the Vajra assist irrelevant." to this "This is a change just for the assist version that we are implementing for the character to give him a better assist selection. If the move was ported wholesale as an assist without any change, then it would make Strider irrelevant as a support character. It would basically be Vajra assist without the risk of Nova using his own body to attack as Strider does. By making it a soft knockdown, the assist still retains usability while not making the Vajra assist irrelevant."
Air throw range bit here, "Coupled that with an air throw that gives him full combos from any height and in any situation... the range on his air throw becomes very difficult to deal with and at times quite derpy. We felt that the whole forward air dash into j.H air throw option select of Nova needed to be toned down so we elected to simply reduce his air throw range." needs some changes to something like this, "That, coupled with an air throw that gives him full combos from any height and in any situation means the range on his air throw becomes very difficult to deal with and allows the character to be played without much thought. We felt that the whole forward air dash into j.H air throw option select of Nova needed to be toned down, so we elected to reduce his air throw range."
Timing for comboing off of air throws being made more strict bit, "Right now Nova can air throw someone, air dash down, whiff a few normals even his launcher, sip his coffee and still have enough time to OTG for a full combo. The untechable time after that air throw is just gross and leads to players tea bagging others during the untechable time just to kill some frames. For parity sake the untechable time after the throw should be reduced simply to make sure that players have to be on point with their air throw conversions. He would still get full combos from his air throws in all situations... it just wouldn't be super lenient." needs some wording changes to something like this, "Right now Nova can air throw someone, air dash down, whiff a few normals (even his launcher!), sip his coffee, and still have enough time to OTG into a full combo. The untechable time after that air throw is excessive and leads to players tea bagging others during the untechable time just to kill some frames. The untechable time after the throw should be reduced simply to make sure that players have to be on point with their air throw conversions. He would still get full combos from his air throws in all situations- it just wouldn't be super lenient."
For a few minor grammar issues, the human rocket bit, "The glitch fix should be obvious as it leads to game breaking situations. Human Rocket is a fairly brain dead move in most situations. Most bad Nova players when they are unable to get in or set up anything will just go for hail mary Human Rocket (aka "throw coins"), make it cross up and either get a hit from the ambiguity of the move or just steer it away to make it completely safe. The move itself already destroys projectiles and he gets a full combo after it if he steers it correctly... it being made completely safe puts it into derp status. Reducing the block stun on the move allows the opponent to punish it with at least a full screen beam or hyper. In most situations this move would still be very hard to punish but at the very least the opponent would have more time to set up his game plan and counter attack." should be changed a bit to something like this, "The glitch fix should be obvious as it leads to game breaking situations. Human Rocket is a fairly brain-dead move in most situations. When Nova players are unable to get in or set up anything, they will just go for a hail mary Human Rocket (aka "throw coins"), make it cross up and either get a hit from the ambiguity of the move, or just steer it away to make it completely safe. The move itself already destroys projectiles, and he gets a full combo after it if he steers it correctly. It being completely safe puts it into derp status. Reducing the block stun on the move allows the opponent to punish it with at least a full screen beam or hyper. In most situations this move would still be very hard to punish, but at the very least the opponent would have more time to set up their game plan and counterattack."
COMMAS DAMN IT, "The main change here is that Energy Javelin is now an assist replacing Nova Strike M which was nothing more than a combo assist. As mentioned before the assist version only does a soft knockdown unlike the point version which does a ground bounce. This allows the game to have one more anti super jump assist which it sorely lacks and it gives Nova more options for assist selection making him a much more viable support character. The red health change also makes Gravimetric Pulse H assist a much more viable assist." changed to "The main change here is that Energy Javelin is now an assist, replacing Nova Strike M which was nothing more than a combo assist. As mentioned before, the assist version only does a soft knockdown, unlike the point version which does a ground bounce. This allows for one more anti super jump assist which are presently exceedingly scarce, and it gives Nova more options for assist selection, making him a much more viable support character. The red health change also makes Gravimetric Pulse H assist more viable."
-Phoenix:
We should again state how she won't be able to mash lights anymore as a result of our system changes and that was taken into consideration when increasing the distance her feathers travel.
In this sentence, "So, she can throw a TK Shot H and then try to use it for cover to land, or a TK Shot L and go for a teleport mix-up." either the comma needs to be a eliminated, or you need a verb after the comma+or, i.e., "So, she can throw a TK Shot H and then try to use it for cover to land, or throw a TK Shot L and go for a teleport mix-up."
Also this, "We think this is a more fair way to balance her potentially absurd fireball game, as flight take ensures players have an opportunity to breach a gap in the projectile hail." should be changed to this, "We think this is a more fair way to balance her potentially absurd fireball game, as flight activation ensures players have an opportunity to breach a gap in the projectile hail."
Just to double-check- we never voted the overhead buff in, right? I know at least Dahbomb and I are against it.
-Phoenix Wright:
"useless evidence after useless evidence" should probably be "useless piece of evidence after useless piece of evidence"
I would change the phrasing of this, "By easing the pain of this period, he will become a stronger character." to something like this, "By reducing the duration spent in investigation mode, he will become a stronger character." in order to avoid people making dumb jokes.
Minor phrasing change from, "Our goal here was to move Wright toward most consistently good evidence collection without removing his bad evidence mechanic entirely." to "Our goal here was to move Wright toward more consistently good evidence collection without removing his bad evidence mechanic entirely."
-Rocket Raccoon:
Isn't bear trap being sped up to make certain combo timing more lenient? The annotation doesn't make sense for this. It's also technically called Mr. Flapper, and he has more than 3 traps (sort of depends on how you count them).
Reconsidering the duration of Mad Hopper now, it's seems slightly excessive at 1200 frames, no? Also, when did j.M become an overhead? That's is ridiculously strong but not in a way that helps his current issues (i.e., against aerials characters, etc.). It's basically a longer range easier to use instant overhead that makes his current instant overheads obsolete.
In this sentence, raccoon is misspelled, "This will help round out Rocket Raccons options when facing matchups where it is unsafe for him to approach."
...........damn this is taking forever! Another batch or two, and I'll be done!
-Jill:
Somehow I missed this earlier, but the machine gun spray buff is crazy. It does terrible damage if you throw it out there randomly, but that's not the point of the move. You can get full combos off of it by doing an assist beforehand or x-factoring, and it gets you in for free. You guys have to realize that currently, as a combo ender, it does damage on par with Raven Spike whet set up properly, i.e., when most of it hits. I went into training mode and did a basic Jill combo which did 411,000 damage pre-hyper and tried ending it with both MGS and Raven Spike. The Raven Spike ender made the combo do 546,300 damage while the MGS ender did 558,300, i.e., MORE damage. The current suggested buff to MGS is nearly double it's present damage- I shouldn't have to explain why this is nuts.
-Magneto:
In the mag blast nerf section, "When trying to figure out how to change the move without completely destroying the move or the character it was quite a challenge." doesn't need the "When" at the beginning.
-MODOK:
cr.L hitting nearby crouching character is stated as a "parity change" but isn't it more of a quality of life change? Saying it's a parity change doesn't really make any sense.
-Morrigan:
It seems like putting "in fact" at the end of this sentence is weird, "Finishing Shower is generally not a good hyper, in fact." and it'd be more normal to say, "In fact, finishing Shower is generally not a good hyper."
Random aside: Morrigan seems like she's getting better even taking into account the hidden missiles nerf- her changes will be a huge point of criticism with our change list.
-Nemesis:
In the bit about his buff to cr.H, I think it would sound slightly better to instead of saying, "We improved both of these aspects so he can feel more like the character he wants to be." to say, "We improved both of these aspects so he can feel more like the character he was meant to be."
In the part about the self-aiming rocket, we should clarify that Nemesis automatically aims the rockets, but it is not a homing rocket.
For the health stealing mechanic, yellow health, red health only, or both? It does not say (and it needs to).
-Nova:
Can you just say "suped"? It feels like you have to say "suped up". Thoughts?
"This is mostly because in situations where you have more than 400K red health if you used any Gravimetric special it would remove all of your red health." need commas: "This is mostly because in situations where you have more than 400K red health, if you used any Gravimetric special, it would remove all of your red health."
This sentence has some redundancies that could be cleaned up, "This meant that the situation where Nova was at his strongest (when he had red health) actually limited his capability as a character because his options would be limited." I would change it to "This meant that the situation where Nova was meant to be at his strongest (when he had red health), actually limited his options."
This block of text has wording and comma issues, "By having the moves that are boosted by red health attached to a S input (QCF+S+A) this would allow the Nova player to have more choices in how and when he chooses to expend his red health. By capping the red health loss this allows more efficient usage of his red health in that he would be allowed to chain two suped up moves together. This change is something that we feel would make the character more interesting." and would be better like this, "By having the moves that are boosted by red health attached to an S input (QCF+S+A), this would allow the Nova player to choose how and when he spends his red health. Capping the red health loss allows more efficient usage of his red health, would occasionally allow him to chain two powered-up moves together. This change is something that we feel would make the character more interesting and thoughtful."
Comma issues, "His cr.L is nothing to write home about, it doesn't even hit low. Nova lacks any real frame trap game or good block strings so making his cr.L +1 was really the only way to give him a bit of both." could be resolved by altering it to this, "His cr.L is nothing to write home about- it doesn't even hit low. Nova lacks any real frame trap game or good block strings, so making his cr.L +1 was a way to give him a bit of both."
Commas needed here too! Change this: "This is a change just for the assist version that we are implementing for the character to give him a better assist selection. If the move was ported wholesale as an assist without any change then this assist would make Strider irrelevant as a support character. It would basically be a Vajra assist without the risk of Nova using his own body to attack unlike Vajra who can be swatted out of the air like a fly. By making it soft down the assist still retains usability while not making the Vajra assist irrelevant." to this "This is a change just for the assist version that we are implementing for the character to give him a better assist selection. If the move was ported wholesale as an assist without any change, then it would make Strider irrelevant as a support character. It would basically be Vajra assist without the risk of Nova using his own body to attack as Strider does. By making it a soft knockdown, the assist still retains usability while not making the Vajra assist irrelevant."
Air throw range bit here, "Coupled that with an air throw that gives him full combos from any height and in any situation... the range on his air throw becomes very difficult to deal with and at times quite derpy. We felt that the whole forward air dash into j.H air throw option select of Nova needed to be toned down so we elected to simply reduce his air throw range." needs some changes to something like this, "That, coupled with an air throw that gives him full combos from any height and in any situation means the range on his air throw becomes very difficult to deal with and allows the character to be played without much thought. We felt that the whole forward air dash into j.H air throw option select of Nova needed to be toned down, so we elected to reduce his air throw range."
Timing for comboing off of air throws being made more strict bit, "Right now Nova can air throw someone, air dash down, whiff a few normals even his launcher, sip his coffee and still have enough time to OTG for a full combo. The untechable time after that air throw is just gross and leads to players tea bagging others during the untechable time just to kill some frames. For parity sake the untechable time after the throw should be reduced simply to make sure that players have to be on point with their air throw conversions. He would still get full combos from his air throws in all situations... it just wouldn't be super lenient." needs some wording changes to something like this, "Right now Nova can air throw someone, air dash down, whiff a few normals (even his launcher!), sip his coffee, and still have enough time to OTG into a full combo. The untechable time after that air throw is excessive and leads to players tea bagging others during the untechable time just to kill some frames. The untechable time after the throw should be reduced simply to make sure that players have to be on point with their air throw conversions. He would still get full combos from his air throws in all situations- it just wouldn't be super lenient."
For a few minor grammar issues, the human rocket bit, "The glitch fix should be obvious as it leads to game breaking situations. Human Rocket is a fairly brain dead move in most situations. Most bad Nova players when they are unable to get in or set up anything will just go for hail mary Human Rocket (aka "throw coins"), make it cross up and either get a hit from the ambiguity of the move or just steer it away to make it completely safe. The move itself already destroys projectiles and he gets a full combo after it if he steers it correctly... it being made completely safe puts it into derp status. Reducing the block stun on the move allows the opponent to punish it with at least a full screen beam or hyper. In most situations this move would still be very hard to punish but at the very least the opponent would have more time to set up his game plan and counter attack." should be changed a bit to something like this, "The glitch fix should be obvious as it leads to game breaking situations. Human Rocket is a fairly brain-dead move in most situations. When Nova players are unable to get in or set up anything, they will just go for a hail mary Human Rocket (aka "throw coins"), make it cross up and either get a hit from the ambiguity of the move, or just steer it away to make it completely safe. The move itself already destroys projectiles, and he gets a full combo after it if he steers it correctly. It being completely safe puts it into derp status. Reducing the block stun on the move allows the opponent to punish it with at least a full screen beam or hyper. In most situations this move would still be very hard to punish, but at the very least the opponent would have more time to set up their game plan and counterattack."
COMMAS DAMN IT, "The main change here is that Energy Javelin is now an assist replacing Nova Strike M which was nothing more than a combo assist. As mentioned before the assist version only does a soft knockdown unlike the point version which does a ground bounce. This allows the game to have one more anti super jump assist which it sorely lacks and it gives Nova more options for assist selection making him a much more viable support character. The red health change also makes Gravimetric Pulse H assist a much more viable assist." changed to "The main change here is that Energy Javelin is now an assist, replacing Nova Strike M which was nothing more than a combo assist. As mentioned before, the assist version only does a soft knockdown, unlike the point version which does a ground bounce. This allows for one more anti super jump assist which are presently exceedingly scarce, and it gives Nova more options for assist selection, making him a much more viable support character. The red health change also makes Gravimetric Pulse H assist more viable."
-Phoenix:
We should again state how she won't be able to mash lights anymore as a result of our system changes and that was taken into consideration when increasing the distance her feathers travel.
In this sentence, "So, she can throw a TK Shot H and then try to use it for cover to land, or a TK Shot L and go for a teleport mix-up." either the comma needs to be a eliminated, or you need a verb after the comma+or, i.e., "So, she can throw a TK Shot H and then try to use it for cover to land, or throw a TK Shot L and go for a teleport mix-up."
Also this, "We think this is a more fair way to balance her potentially absurd fireball game, as flight take ensures players have an opportunity to breach a gap in the projectile hail." should be changed to this, "We think this is a more fair way to balance her potentially absurd fireball game, as flight activation ensures players have an opportunity to breach a gap in the projectile hail."
Just to double-check- we never voted the overhead buff in, right? I know at least Dahbomb and I are against it.
-Phoenix Wright:
"useless evidence after useless evidence" should probably be "useless piece of evidence after useless piece of evidence"
I would change the phrasing of this, "By easing the pain of this period, he will become a stronger character." to something like this, "By reducing the duration spent in investigation mode, he will become a stronger character." in order to avoid people making dumb jokes.
Minor phrasing change from, "Our goal here was to move Wright toward most consistently good evidence collection without removing his bad evidence mechanic entirely." to "Our goal here was to move Wright toward more consistently good evidence collection without removing his bad evidence mechanic entirely."
-Rocket Raccoon:
Isn't bear trap being sped up to make certain combo timing more lenient? The annotation doesn't make sense for this. It's also technically called Mr. Flapper, and he has more than 3 traps (sort of depends on how you count them).
Reconsidering the duration of Mad Hopper now, it's seems slightly excessive at 1200 frames, no? Also, when did j.M become an overhead? That's is ridiculously strong but not in a way that helps his current issues (i.e., against aerials characters, etc.). It's basically a longer range easier to use instant overhead that makes his current instant overheads obsolete.
In this sentence, raccoon is misspelled, "This will help round out Rocket Raccons options when facing matchups where it is unsafe for him to approach."
...........damn this is taking forever! Another batch or two, and I'll be done!
Karsticles
Member
Zissou, remember to PM it to me. Even if it is just a link to your posts.
Anything in those patch notes was voted in except for the Nemesis health steal, which we havent talked a lot about yet. The things you guys forget you vote for...
Anything in those patch notes was voted in except for the Nemesis health steal, which we havent talked a lot about yet. The things you guys forget you vote for...
Woah woah! The deadline is Wednesday, but we aren't sending on Wednesday. I need a few days to implement all the changes after the deadline happens. I thought we were going to send it out Friday during Capcom Cup.
Everything thus far has been pm'd to you. I should finish the remainder within the next 24 hours (fingers crossed).