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[Anth0ny]

I will agree with this, though. Nintendo

Spoiler

always

has an uphill struggle in front of them.

I thought they were okay in the N64 era. Those kids who played and loved Goldeneye and Perfect Dark grew up into COD players.

And now, the equivalent of Goldenye for kids today is COD. Not the one on Wii with "shit graphics and dildo controller", the one on 360 with "the best graphics and online because PSN is garbage".

It baffles me that Nintendo doesn't see the value in that genre and "dudebro" gamers. Goldeneye for N64 sold 8 million copies. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with Black Ops 2 this year. If it's gimped compared to the PS360 versions in any way... not good.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

her.

Does it though. Most gamers don't live in a bubble where other games and platforms don't exist. So in a world where there is the full-feature COD on PS360, probably an earlier release too, would you buy a Wii version that has less features?
It's a slight moving of goalpost, though not evil minded. But first it's "there are no million sellers", then "yeah but those don't count" and "it should've done even better". Droves of people are willing to buy those pretty unarguably worse versions of games.

and I'll say it again, they put themselves in that position. Which was my overall point.

Why would that be a problem? When they talked about development budgets for the Wii being cheaper for developers and easier to work with, I'm sure they might have also meant themselves as well. Because, you know, they make video games too and not, say, toasters. Just because they would benefit TOO doesn't make it a zero-sum Mexican standoff.

because the cheap way out isn't always the best option. Ignoring online, harddrives, and so on was the cheap way out, was that a problem for them? Yes.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Nintendo needs to realize that hardcore needs more games.

You can't have 100 carnival and workout games and only have 1 shooter...

It needs to be the other way around.

Thing is, most of the games Nintendo released were actual games. They catered heavily to both. In some cases, their games were among the finest entries in their respective series.

That said, NoA (or NCL's controller over American distribution, perhaps) specifically has some questions to answer regarding why certain games weren't localized (even when they were localised to other English speaking countries!).

Dreamcast was a full generational leap. In fact, a Dreamcast jump (~10x) is what you're going to get from Sony and Microsoft.

The big question mark floating around during this transition is whether or not any of the upcoming systems will reach that mark given the constraints of physics.

 

[Akai]

It baffles me that Nintendo doesn't see the value in that genre and "dudebro" gamers. Goldeneye for N64 sold 8 million copies. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with Black Ops 2 this year. If it's gimped compared to the PS360 versions in any way... not good.

The last thing Ninty needs to do is to start competing in the one realm that third parties are congregating within the most...

Unless you're talking about third party versions, then, well, that's not really Ninty's fault if third parties don't put in the effort...

 

[MisterHero]

I thought they were okay in the N64 era. Those kids who played and loved Goldeneye and Perfect Dark grew up into COD players.

And now, the equivalent of Goldenye for kids today is COD. Not the one on Wii with "shit graphics and dildo controller", the one on 360 with "the best graphics and online because PSN is garbage".

It baffles me that Nintendo doesn't see the value in that genre and "dudebro" gamers. Goldeneye for N64 sold 8 million copies. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with Black Ops 2 this year. If it's gimped compared to the PS360 versions in any way... not good.

It won't matter to them unless they have developers that know how to make that "perfect" game. They spent 4 years of Geist and Miyamoto had to supervise it so they could release something.

Right now it's better to give a 3rd-party room to do something they're good at, like Activision and CoD.

A lot of players who don't pick the game up Day 1 are going to adopt the game which has the busiest/most popular Online component (CoD).

It doesn't really help them unless they plan on being #1 in that field, which doesn't really sound practical for Nintendo.

If anything, they will probably move towards MMO-inspired games (like Kid Icarus's multiplayer).

 

[DragonSworne]

I'm just glad WiiU is already getting more shooters than Wii had in it's first year, and NDA's haven't even been lifted!

The other big genre besides shooters is the western rpg. This became huge this generation. Nintendo needs Bethesda on board 100%.

 

[cyberheater]

If the Wii U is not atleast a Dreamcast like step up technically from the PS360 then Wii U is pathetic IMO. I'm sure people in the Nintendo cult won't agrea and drink the kool aid no matter what.

Friendly advice. Tone it down a bit. If you're banned whilst a junior it's permanant.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I thought they were okay in the N64 era. Those kids who played and loved Goldeneye and Perfect Dark grew up into COD players.

And now, the equivalent of Goldenye for kids today is COD. Not the one on Wii with "shit graphics and dildo controller", the one on 360 with "the best graphics and online because PSN is garbage".

It baffles me that Nintendo doesn't see the value in that genre and "dudebro" gamers. Goldeneye for N64 sold 8 million copies. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with Black Ops 2 this year. If it's gimped compared to the PS360 versions in any way... not good.

They did try to continue their efforts in the genre with Geist and the Metroid Prime series (which missed the point of specifically why that genre was gaining super popularity but still found its own niche). But then people seriously stopped buying their consoles.

I'm not saying they're not at fault for doing it wrong during the GCN era and then initially giving up on it (and subsequently making a half-assed effort to get back the audience, such as with the GoldenEye do-over). But the "dudebro" approach that they had been pursuing was going really badly for them, and I think it is understandable from a business perspective at the time why they didn't push it even harder.


That said, it certainly hurt my gaming group's fun time, as we need local multiplayer first person shooters, and somehow the local multiplayer went almost entirely to Nintendo, and the first person shooters went almost entirely to the other consoles! :|

 

[Shurayuki]

and I'll say it again, they put themselves in that position. Which was my overall point.

That may be your overarching point and nobody disagrees on that, but you specifically said there "COD should have sold more than 1m because it's COD", and I was trying to give the reason why it could be unreasonable to expect it to to more than that.
Personally I'm more surprised anybody would actually buy it in the first place, but I apparently there were actually many Wii only gamers (even not trusting/having access to pc).

Woohoo we're having discussion here in this thread guys, rejoice!

Fixed. Ninty's output is clearly "hardcore"-oriented, unless you are a fool who considers Mario to be a "casual" franchise now...

It's one of those titles that exemplifies how stupid the distinction is in the first place. One could easily replace it with "popular" and "niche" but that wouldn't make us feel special and superior anymore. Mario is a pop-game

 

[Deguello]

because the cheap way out isn't always the best option. Ignoring online, harddrives, and so on was the cheap way out, was that a problem for them? Yes.

But what do those have to do with Wii development budgets vs. HD development budgets? Besides I think my objection was the insinuation of Snidely Whiplash-esque mustache twirling on Nintendo's part, wherein they say they cheaper dev budgets would help the indsutry, while secretly plotting to merely cut their own costs!

What's the shocked, unbelieving response to that? "Those cads! I'm going to blow my whole company on two HD ames and then promptly die! That'll show them what I think about their notions of 'helping the industry!'"

 

[methodman]

Friendly advice. Tone it down a bit. If you're banned whilst a junior it's permanant.

Nah, he should keep it up. Doin so well already

 

[MisterHero]

Metroid Prime being first-person had less to do with gameplay and more with having a difficult 3rd-person camera. However, Metroid Hunters was a better move towards the genre.

Nintendo made a game that played a lot like Star Wars Battlefront* (Battalion Wars). It's not very popular though. D:

*It's more fun than any FPS, in my opinion

 

[Linkhero1]

I thought they were okay in the N64 era. Those kids who played and loved Goldeneye and Perfect Dark grew up into COD players.

And now, the equivalent of Goldenye for kids today is COD. Not the one on Wii with "shit graphics and dildo controller", the one on 360 with "the best graphics and online because PSN is garbage".

It baffles me that Nintendo doesn't see the value in that genre and "dudebro" gamers. Goldeneye for N64 sold 8 million copies. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with Black Ops 2 this year. If it's gimped compared to the PS360 versions in any way... not good.

I'm a CoD guy and if Nintendo is able to nail online this generation then I'm going to move over to the Wii U and play CoD on the Wii U rather than the Xbox, which is what I'm doing now. They need to have a good online service for CoD Wii U to receive all the same features CoD on Xbox 360/PS3 have.

On a separate note. Seeing that Turok thread yesterday makes me want another Turok developed by the people who worked on the original. It would be awesome to see it on the Wii U. Who has the license for this now?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

But what do those have to do with Wii development budgets vs. HD development budgets. Besides I think my objection was the insinuation of Snidely Whiplash-esque mustache twirling on Nintendo's part, wherein they say they cheaper dev budgets would help the indsutry, while secretly plotting to merely cut their own costs!

What's the shocked, unbelieving response to that? "Those cads! I'm going to blow my whole company on two HD ames and then promptly die! That'll show them what I think about their notions of 'helping the industry!'"

I was just saying that they might have justified their cost cutting with the idea that it's helping the industry, and they could have been right, like Alberto said, who knows what would be different if everyone jumped on the wii wagon rather than the other 2. I didn't mean it in a super evil moustache twirling decision way.

Fact is, they gambled on that, and they were wrong. They might have had good intentions, but like always, and like I keep saying, you can't do something and expect the devs to follow.

 

[DragonSworne]

I'm a CoD guy and if Nintendo is able to nail online this generation then I'm going to move over to the Wii U and play CoD on the Wii U rather than the Xbox, which is what I'm doing now. They need to have a good online service for CoD Wii U to receive all the same features CoD on Xbox 360/PS3 have.

On a separate note. Seeing that Turok thread yesterday makes me want another Turok developed by the people who worked on the original.

Same here. I'll be picking up black ops 2 for the WiiU if all the feature are there.

 

[BurntPork]

Friendly advice. Tone it down a bit. If you're banned whilst a junior it's permanant.

I don't think he cares. Look through his posts. He knows his tech stuff, yet still made a silly comment like that...

 

[Shurayuki]

It won't matter to them unless they have developers that know how to make that "perfect" game. They spent 4 years of Geist and Miyamoto had to supervise it so they could release something.

Right now it's better to give a 3rd-party room to do something they're good at, like Activision and CoD.

A lot of players who don't pick the game up Day 1 are going to adopt the game which has the busiest/most popular Online component (CoD).

It doesn't really help them unless they plan on being #1 in that field, which doesn't really sound practical for Nintendo.

If anything, they will probably move towards MMO-inspired games (like Kid Icarus's multiplayer).

Am I the only one who immediately thought of Kirby's Air Ride's MP when they unveiled Kid Icarus'? Probably because nobody played that game
It seemed like a blueprint lift, just putting in a bit of Smash fisticuffs.

 

[suracity]

After watching Iwata speaking Korean and the constant debate about western 3rd party support. I feel that it is really important/necessary for Nintendo or even Sony to put efforts in opening market in China.

I think everyone agrees that the Japanese games are less influential than they used to be among west audience. Meanwhile the console market in Japan is declining. Those things combined result that a lot of Japanese 3rd parties are in bad shape or shift their focus to handheld.

However there is really some "balance" in China. Japanese games still hold a lot of power because of the similar taste. Even the "Moe" concept also has a large market. Meanwhile western games are popular as well. Chinese gamer can buy R1/R2/R3 PS3 games, or Japan/US 3DS console/games easily because every game retailer provides those kinds of options.

 

[Anth0ny]

It won't matter to them unless they have developers that know how to make that "perfect" game. They spent 4 years of Geist and Miyamoto had to supervise it so they could release something.

Right now it's better to give a 3rd-party room to do something they're good at, like Activision and CoD.

A lot of players who don't pick the game up Day 1 are going to adopt the game which has the busiest/most popular Online component (CoD).

It doesn't really help them unless they plan on being #1 in that field, which doesn't really sound practical for Nintendo.

If anything, they will probably move towards MMO-inspired games (like Kid Icarus's multiplayer).

Oh yeah, I'm not saying Nintendo needs to have their own dudebro shooter (although I suspect that's what Retro is working on). I just can't believe they don't see how superficial gamers look at games. Graphics are important, no matter how much you say they aren't. There's a huge portion of gamers in North America that won't even breathe in the direction of your console unless it has the best possible graphics a console can offer.

 

[MisterHero]

Am I the only one who immediately thought of Kirby's Air Ride's MP when they unveiled Kid Icarus'? Probably because nobody played that game
It seemed like a blueprint lift, just putting in a bit of Smash fisticuffs.

I think I was too wrapped up in Phantasy Star Offline when it came out

 

[Father_Brain]

I thought they were okay in the N64 era. Those kids who played and loved Goldeneye and Perfect Dark grew up into COD players.

And now, the equivalent of Goldenye for kids today is COD. Not the one on Wii with "shit graphics and dildo controller", the one on 360 with "the best graphics and online because PSN is garbage".

It baffles me that Nintendo doesn't see the value in that genre and "dudebro" gamers. Goldeneye for N64 sold 8 million copies. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with Black Ops 2 this year. If it's gimped compared to the PS360 versions in any way... not good.

I think that assessment is a bit unfair. Iwata himself has made clear more than once that he sees that segment of the market as important:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/110426qa/03.html

Next, regarding the subject of overseas, there was an era in the past, which was until the time of PlayStation 2, when games made in Japan sold well all over the world. However, I think that, over the past three or four years, the presence of Japanese software developers has become relatively small. Nintendo is doing what overseas software developers do not do, so Nintendo's software is selling relatively well also in foreign countries, but for the software oriented to enthusiastic game players, such as "Call of Duty," the ones created by overseas developers are more mainstream in the overseas markets. In addition, because the expressions in games are becoming more and more photo-realistic, I imagine that the cultural differences in acceptance have started to be reflected more clearly. I think this is the reason why western users tend to prefer software created overseas than software from Japanese software developers.<

Of course, Nintendo will continue to run a business by creating Nintendo-like games, but we will not be able to meet the various tastes of consumers by only doing this, so I feel that it will become necessary to reinforce the development resources in the foreign countries. Therefore, I hope we will be able to show you something like that at E3.

(Whatever project he was referring to apparently wasn't actually shown last E3, but perhaps this year.)

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/110426qa/04.html

Regarding your analysis that cooperation with third-party software developers didn't go as well for Wii as it went for Nintendo DS, there actually are some arguments which attribute the reason to the system&#8217;s "performance," but in terms of "performance," Nintendo DS did not overwhelm other devices by its performance. However, it proposed what other devices could not, and that value was recognized, and as a result the software sold well, which is the most important point. Unfortunately, there are very few success stories of third-party software in Japan on Wii. This lowered the motivation of the software developers, and at a time when these software developers should have been running their businesses on the platform with the biggest installed base, this wasn't the reality. On the contrary, in the U.S., several titles sold well. Not only "JUST DANCE," which I introduced today, but for some titles, such as "Guitar Hero," even if the titles were released for multiple platforms, the Wii version sold the most, and in such a situation, the developers did not completely lose motivation for development on Wii. However, Wii is good in some areas but not in others, so especially for games like "Call of Duty," the Wii version sold pretty well, but the unit sales were very different from the versions of other platforms, and I assume that one of the reasons is the issue with the graphical representations which you mentioned before, and also, the consumers who like that kind of game will have other platforms at home as well, which led to this result. Of course, we would like to cooperate with software developers for Wii's successor, and as I am repeatedly saying, I don't believe Nintendo can carry out everything alone. I am saying that we are responsible for building up the market, but I don't think that Nintendo can maintain the market alone; We are aiming for creating a situation where software publishers will be willing to cooperate.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/110629qa/02.html

However, I do not think that the Wii U will be in widespread use all over the world only with Nintendo software. Currently, in the western countries especially, war-themed gun-shooting games, which are not well-received in Japan, are very popular. It is a reality that some of these games sell 10 million units per year in those markets, and this is one valid type of video game genre. I would personally feel sad if all video games became something like that, but on the other hand, I do not think such games should disappear. Both (Nintendo software for everyone and gun-shooting games) are video games, so our aim for the Wii U is for it to be a console where various people can enjoy what they want to enjoy at their own discretion. Therefore, we have been talking to major overseas software publishers who are good at developing such games, and through our communication, we have received very positive comments from them (on the development on the Wii U). So we believe such software publishers will proactively develop software for the Wii U, and we think we can dispel the concerns you mentioned earlier by the time of its launch.

The real question is what exactly Nintendo is going to do, or perhaps what they're even capable of doing, in pursuit of its own chunk of that market. It'll be an uphill battle, to say the least.

 

[Sis Focaccia]

That's an interesting idea, actually. Although, I wouldn't want to be on national TV in my undies lol. Assuming it uses the camera...

No worries the AR fixes that

 

[Deguello]

I was just saying that they might have justified their cost cutting with the idea that it's helping the industry, and they could have been right, like Alberto said, who knows what would be different if everyone jumped on the wii wagon rather than the other 2. I didn't mean it in a super evil moustache twirling decision way.

Alright.

Fact is, they gambled on that, and they were wrong. They might have had good intentions, but like always, and like I keep saying, you can't do something and expect the devs to follow.

But any strategy they take with third parties is a risk and a gamble, even the uber-powered $600 tech monster console approach. They could overreach and be stuck with expensive consoles and games that don't use the power because they're being developed for the lowest common denominator anyway.

Hell some of the bigger third parties might even see Nintendo's generosity with their dev kit packages as a direct affront on their position by essentially funding the rise of lower and middle tier developers instead of preferring the big publishers (who no doubt already have Autodesk and Havok and Green Hills). Who knows what can happen? Thus, nobody has a clear answer, except "sell a lot of consoles and hope third parties don't fuck you over... this time."

 

[Akai]

There's a huge portion of gamers in North America that won't even breathe in the direction of your console unless it has the best possible graphics a console can offer.

Come on, Wii has already established that this just isn't true. Gamers will go where the content they want is, no matter the visual fidelity...

 

[Linkhero1]

I think that assessment is a bit unfair. Iwata himself has made clear more than once that he sees that segment of the market as important:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/110426qa/03.html



(Whatever project he was referring to apparently wasn't actually shown last E3, but perhaps this year.)

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/110629qa/02.html



The real question is what exactly Nintendo is going to do, or perhaps what they're even capable of doing, in pursuit of its own chunk of that market. It'll be an uphill battle, to say the least.

The first quote makes it seem like they're putting in some effort to ensure they receive the latest dudebro shooters, but it also sounds like their overseas development team (ahem Retro) has something in the works.

 

[MisterHero]

Oh yeah, I'm not saying Nintendo needs to have their own dudebro shooter (although I suspect that's what Retro is working on). I just can't believe they don't see how superficial gamers look at games. Graphics are important, no matter how much you say they aren't. There's a huge portion of gamers in North America that won't even breathe in the direction of your console unless it has the best possible graphics a console can offer.

Graphics do count, but Mario Kart, which was focused on performance rather than visual appeal, sold well too.

Not to say I'm not completely enthralled! I remember when they used to have the upper hand on anti-aliasing.

 

[Shurayuki]

After watching Iwata speaking Korean and the constant debate about western 3rd party support. I feel that it is really important/necessary for Nintendo or even Sony to put efforts in opening market in China.

I think everyone agrees that the Japanese games are less influential than they used to be among west audience. Meanwhile the console market in Japan is declining. Those things combined result that a lot of Japanese 3rd parties are in bad shape or shift their focus to handheld.

However there is really some "balance" in China. Japanese games still hold a lot of power because of the similar taste. Even the "Moe" concept also has a large market. Meanwhile western games are popular as well. Chinese gamer can buy R1/R2/R3 PS3 games, or Japan/US 3DS console/games easily because every game retailer provides those kinds of options.

I thought manufacturers had huge problems selling their products in China and Korea, which is the main reason we see them lagging seriously behind. IF somebody can control the black market and all that jazz, then there's a mountain of money to be had for sure.
Korean and Chinese games also are astoundingly ignored for the most part. Would like to see some stuff over, even if it's janky. Doesn't keep Europe from doing it ;P
Nexon needs to be on board for sure.

Come on, Wii has already established that this just isn't true. Gamers will go where the content they want is, no matter the visual fidelity...

Well both is true. Gamers will go to where the game is, but if there's a choice, why would you expect them to not chose the "superior" version/system, even if it comes at a small premium.
Nintendo was really iffy about the success of DS and Wii, so they seemed to failsafe it. Now it's a bit of a middle ground of knowing they'll probably be successful but the signal was that they don't need the super hardware anymore. I don't want to be Nintendo right now, whatever they do is pretty much wrong. Make a uber powerful system? Waste, make it cheap? Wii again. Yuck.

 

[cyberheater]

I don't think he cares. Look through his posts. He knows his tech stuff, yet still made a silly comment like that...

Well he'll not be around long then.

 

[Bagu]

On a separate note. Seeing that Turok thread yesterday makes me want another Turok developed by the people who worked on the original. It would be awesome to see it on the Wii U. Who has the license for this now?

The last Turok game was published by Disney, so if things haven't changed, the license is theirs.

 

[EatChildren]

What are you guys even talking about when you say 'dudebro shooter'? If you mean "cinematic Call of Duty clone" or something then I don't think you'll ever see anything quite like that from Nintendo.

I think Nintendo has learned over the years, from multiple failed titles, that trying to copycat successful games from other developers rarely works. For all Nintendo's supposed milking of their franchises, they almost never make clone titles of big games from other developers.

 

[Linkhero1]

The last Turok game was published by Disney, so if things haven't changed, the license is theirs.

I haven't had a chance to play their Turok game but I've heard people had mixed feelings about it. I would have loved a new Turok by the old developers.

What are you guys even talking about when you say 'dudebro shooter'? If you mean "cinematic Call of Duty clone" or something then I don't think you'll ever see anything quite like that from Nintendo.

I think Nintendo has learned over the years, from multiple failed titles, that trying to copycat successful games from other developers rarely works. For all Nintendo's supposed milking of their franchises, they almost never make clone titles of big games from other developers.

True but if there's a one developer that can do it, it's Retro. I wouldn't mind a shooter as long as it doesn't try to be like CoD.

 

[Deguello]

On a separate note. Seeing that Turok thread yesterday makes me want another Turok developed by the people who worked on the original. It would be awesome to see it on the Wii U. Who has the license for this now?

Isn't Retro initially made from members of Iguana? Were they all ousted in the purge of 2000?

 

[AceBandage]

What are you guys even talking about when you say 'dudebro shooter'? If you mean "cinematic Call of Duty clone" or something then I don't think you'll ever see anything quite like that from Nintendo.

I think Nintendo has learned over the years, from multiple failed titles, that trying to copycat successful games from other developers rarely works. For all Nintendo's supposed milking of their franchises, they almost never make clone titles of big games from other developers.

Yeah, Nintendo won't create a by the books shooter.
They'll make it more like how Metroid Prime was. Something that fits their own needs.

However, that said, I really think they should try and secure Time Splitters from Crytek as an exclusive.
The humor fits in with Nintendo's style, and it has a good following, without it being a giant franchise.

 

[Bagu]

I haven't had a chance to play their Turok game but I've heard people had mixed feelings about it. I would have loved a new Turok by the old developers.

The iguana has died unfortunately.

 

[shadyspace]

The iguana has died unfortunately.

Didn't the Iguana evolve into Retro?

 

[Linkhero1]

Isn't Retro initially made from members of Iguana? Were they all ousted in the purge of 2000?

I believe it was. I'm not familiar with most of the team, so I don't know who's still there and who has left.

The iguana has died unfortunately.

I know as sad as it is. I meant the dev team that worked on it getting back together to work on a sequel, but the chances of that happening is slim.

 

[Shurayuki]

I think I was too wrapped up in Phantasy Star Offline when it came out

The one on GC? A quick wikipedia makes it seem like there's like 2years between them, I certainly played both xp

Nobody loves Kaaabiiii~~ :[]:
It's alright little...thing...i'll rabu you forever.

The last Turok game was published by Disney, so if things haven't changed, the license is theirs.

Also by Capcom eh? But you're probably right, that's the people's opinion yes. I only remember the brain-seeker cannon :lol

 

[Oddduck]

If Retro had the Turok IP, that would be amazing. They would do great things with a dinosaur filled world.

 

[Anth0ny]

I think that assessment is a bit unfair. Iwata himself has made clear more than once that he sees that segment of the market as important:

The real question is what exactly Nintendo is going to do, or perhaps what they're even capable of doing, in pursuit of its own chunk of that market. It'll be an uphill battle, to say the least.

Well, it's nice to hear him say that. Time to put it into action. Like I said, they need to start with a Black Ops 2 that is on par, or superior to the 360/PS3 versions. They need to show they actually give a shit about that audience.

However, come PS4/720 launch... it's going to be really tough.

Come on, Wii has already established that this just isn't true. Gamers will go where the content they want is, no matter the visual fidelity...

Have you ever met a dudebro? This simply isn't true.

 

[Akai]

Well both is true. Gamers will go to where the game is, but if there's a choice, why would you expect them to not chose the "superior" version/system, even if it comes at a small premium.

True, but again this falls back on third parties who continually provide Wii with sub-par versions and spinoffs of their console mainstays, not just in visuals but in content as well. And as I said before, gamers will go where the content they want is...

Have you ever met a dudebro? This simply isn't true.

The "dudebro" is a minority, no matter how you paint it...

 

[Bagu]

Didn't the Iguana evolve into Retro?

Retro was founded in 1998. Iguana didn't close down until 04.

 

[Terrell]

I thought manufacturers had huge problems selling their products in China and Korea, which is the main reason we see them lagging seriously behind. IF somebody can control the black market and all that jazz, then there's a mountain of money to be had for sure.
Korean and Chinese games also are astoundingly ignored for the most part. Would like to see some stuff over, even if it's janky. Doesn't keep Europe from doing it ;P
Nexon needs to be on board for sure.

Well, with the Nintendo situation in Korea, I think a lot of developers in that country honestly didn't think Nintendo would have a hit. And sure, Wii hasn't sold THAT immensely there, but I think their console marketshare in Korea increased by about 1000% over what they were selling from their shady-ass suppliers there who sold unlocalized games. Some Wii games are MILLION-SELLERS, and 5 years ago, a console game selling that high in Korea would have been a pipe dream. So it's a solid first run that I think will get Korean developers' attention, especially if they want to make games that would be better suited to controllers than keyboards and mice.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Alright.

But any strategy they take with third parties is a risk and a gamble, even the uber-powered $600 tech monster console approach. They could overreach and be stuck with expensive consoles and games that don't use the power because they're being developed for the lowest common denominator anyway.

Hell some of the bigger third parties might even see Nintendo's generosity with their dev kit packages as a direct affront on their position by essentially funding the rise of lower and middle tier developers instead of preferring the big publishers (who no doubt already have Autodesk and Havok and Green Hills). Who knows what can happen? Thus, nobody has a clear answer, except "sell a lot of consoles and hope third parties don't fuck you over... this time."

but there are calculated gambles, and then there is risk vs reward. The risk by going the wii route was boxing themselves out from the other competitors for better or for worse (turned out better in some ways, worse in others, worse in ways that are biting them now). You always have to look at risk and reward, and getting boxed out is a pretty big risk, I question whether they knew that and didn't care, didn't realize it at all, or whatever the third option I can't think of right now is. There are places worth taking gambles on and places not worth taking them on.

See apple can release whatever hardware they want, that's because they sell so much and their base buy so many apps and whatnot that they can dictate the future (for instance taking the widely used flash, and saying fuck off). Nintendo wasn't in that position, but they went ahead and dictated the future anyway. They made a ton of money, no denying that. But it also set them quite a ways back in many ways they are attempting to make up for this upcoming generation. Perhaps though it was worth it for them, but that doesn't mean that now they don't have to put in double work to stay on track, because they do.

 

[Oddduck]

Retro was founded in 1998. Iguana didn't close down until 04.

A huge number of Iguana employees migrated to Retro from what I remember.

 

[Shurayuki]

True, but again this falls back on third parties who continually provide Wii with sub-par versions and spinoffs of their console mainstays, not just in visuals but in content as well. And as I said before, gamers will go where the content they want is...

"May he who is without sin cast the first Wii-Remote". Yeah in the end I think everybody plays his part in the 3rd party dilemma. In the end, the only one's who can change that are the 3rd parties though, while we have to look at Nintendo to give them the incentive and provide the possibility (*cough console featureset*) to do so.

 

[Linkhero1]

A huge number of Iguana employees migrated to Retro from what I remember.

Didn't a lot of people also come from id Software?

 

[Akai]

Retro was founded in 1998. Iguana didn't close down until 04.

I think some may be confusing the fact that Retro was founded by Iguana's founder Jeff Spangenberg, who was then later kicked out during Retro's restructuring...

But they may have picked up some Iguana members once the studio finally dissolved, though...

 

[suracity]

Well, with the Nintendo situation in Korea, I think a lot of developers in that country honestly didn't think Nintendo would have a hit. And sure, Wii hasn't sold THAT immensely there, but I think their console marketshare in Korea increased by about 1000% over what they were selling from their shady-ass suppliers there who sold unlocalized games. Some Wii games are MILLION-SELLERS, and 5 years ago, a console game selling that high in Korea would have been a pipe dream. So it's a solid first run that I think will get Korean developers' attention, especially if they want to make games that would be better suited to controllers than keyboards and mice.

Honestly I don't put much hope on either Korean or Chinese local game developers, at least not within 5 years. Most of them focus on PC/MMO/social games nowadays. However it is a potential good place for Japanese developers to rely on. I mean like Iwata said "culture difference" becomes more and more obvious, you need to find somewhere more "similar" to yours and it is easier to appeal.

 

[Jokab]

This thread reached 61 pages in 2 days? What is this madness.

 

[Bagu]

I think everyone is confusing the fact that Retro was founded by Iguana's founder Jeff Spangenberg, who was then later kicked out during Retro's restructuring...

But they may have picked up some Iguana members once the studio finally dissolved, though...

I thought Spangenberg left on his own accord. Something to do with embarrassing photos.