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[Redford]

I don't understand the mindset where, at one point in time, X Level of Power/Features is worth "full effort" and then - just because there's something better available on the market - X Level is suddenly not worth that full effort. It reeks of petty e-peen waggling more than anything else.

This might be a fundamental part of where developers and I don't see eye to eye. Hardware that was good enough in 2006 isn't magically unworkable crap just because the new 2007 hardware is better.

All I will say about this is that objectively speaking, the other consoles were and have been significantly better in ways that devs appreciate. They also had legs. If MS and Sony were putting out new consoles all the time and Nintendo still got shafted, I'd agree but obviously that's not the dynamic of the console industry.

No. Nintendo made high quality games for the market leader, regardless of technical qualities of the system. This led to Mario Kart Wii being the best selling game this entire generation, and Wii Sports Resort being the second highest.

Nobody pointed a gun at major publishers heads and told them that the Wii wasn't worth their efforts. They weren't "forced" to develop games for it. They just did. And they were mostly pretty goddamn bad. Hence, they have a bad reputation that needs fixing.

If Nintendo didn't make amazing games from their first parties, they'd be up shit creek. So I take that as a given.

And if they hadn't made the games at all, again I say, you all would have been angry for being shunned.

 

[HylianTom]

I gladly take them as well. If Wii U keeps on getting the same third party support 360/PS3 and then down the line 720/PS4 receive then I'll be a one console guy this coming generation. Just need my Fallout and CoD fix on one platform and I'm set.

Kinda sad to see they didn't take RE4: Wii Edition sales seriously but it was enough to give us Tatsunoko vs Capcom

I'll be a one-console guy as always

Spoiler

(honestly? I refuse to support those who would love to squeeze Nintendo out of the console market)

, but my PC gaming time might take a hit.

I usually go to PC for Elder Scrolls or Civ time when there's a lull in the Nintendo release schedule. This gen, I wasn't on PC very much; between the Wii and the DS, Nintendo really came-through for me.

All I will say about this is that objectively speaking, the other consoles were and have been significantly better in ways that devs appreciate. They also had legs. If MS and Sony were putting out new consoles all the time and Nintendo still got shafted, I'd agree but obviously that's not the dynamic of the console industry.

True, but this is where I make the distinction.. they might have been "significantly better," but this does not magically remove the "good enough" tag from the X Level. Add that the X Level hardware is more sustainable to develop for and is the market leader, and my pity for developers going buh-bye evaporates.. poof.

 

[Terrell]

Really? TUROK? That franchise hasn't had anything worthwhile since Seeds of Evil.

Turok 3 was OK. Evolution was a result of Acclaim being so money-short that they couldn't make a good game if they tried.

But NONE of those are the level of shit that was this gen's reboot of the franchise. Makes Evolution look good by comparison. At least Acclaim had money troubles to blame for Evolution being shit, what's DISNEY'S excuse?

 

[Shurayuki]

All I will say about this is that objectively speaking, the other consoles were and have been significantly better in ways that devs appreciate. They also had legs. If MS and Sony were putting out new consoles all the time and Nintendo still got shafted, I'd agree but obviously that's not the dynamic of the console industry.

Nintendo got shafted for 15 years straight though. In those years there have been combinations of more/equal/less power and more/equal/less sales and Nintendo always got shafted. How come Nintendo is the only one who has to have the most powerful hardware most sales and a candycane on top to even be considered for a game?

As has been mentioned above, it's unfair. It's the game, Nintendo have to play it, but we can moan and fuss. The power lies with the suits at the pubs, but moaning is what the internet is for.
And...that other thing.

I love it. This is when the thread shines. And it's proof that not all Ninthings are a brainwashed, single-thoughtset horde. We argue, just like all families do.

Who started the "Ninthings" thing anyway? The only one I can remember using it was Billychu, and Billychu is just lovely and nobody should take insult in what he (she?) says. Dat Girlbeard.

 

[Sadist]

See, Arkham City is a game that doesn't really play like anything else on the market.

My thumb rule when questioning creativity is to think of a franchise established this generation, regardless of how milked it might be, and then try and think of how many games played exactly like it prior. If you cant think of many, or any, without seriously reaching, then it's obviously creative.

Even something like Assassin's Creed, a franchise that has been milked to shit and one that I'm not particularly fond of, is something almost totally new for this generation. On top of this the leap between AC and AC2 was tremendous, and though AC:B and AC:R milked the formula of AC2, AC3 could very well be a new overhaul over AC2.

Meanwhile Modern Warfare 3 is still, at its core, the same formula as the 2003 game.

Yup. Rocksteady did combine certain elements but made something entirely new.

Allthough with AC I feel it's been done before, but not as uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Extensive maybe. To me AC feels a bit like the younger brother of the Prince of Persia franchise. The younger brother feels the need to be more succesfull and cooler than it's older brother but fails miserably imo. It has the same flaws as the PoP franchise (shitty combat) but doesn't follow the same linear path in level/game design. Even with the open structure I got bored quickly. But that might be just me though. I was really hyped for AC and when I played it for the first time, I thought it was downright awfull. AC II wasn't very good either.

And oh, your Shattered Memories comment pleases me. Another game by a western developer I like (and one of my personal favourites) is Climax's take on the SH franchise. If Konami wasn't so full of shit these days they should give Climax another shot at the franchise. I loved the whole psychological thriller feel of the game.

Revelations was amazing?

If by Revelations you mean Resident Evil, then yes.

 

[Linkhero1]

I'll be a one-console guy as always

Spoiler

(honestly? I refuse to support those who would love to squeeze Nintendo out of the console market)

, but my PC gaming time might take a hit.

I usually go to PC for Elder Scrolls or Civ time when there's a lull in the Nintendo release schedule. This gen, I wasn't on PC very much; between the Wii and the DS, Nintendo really came-through for me.

I don't think I could have gone Nintendo only this generation. I need to play multiplatform games on something other than PC (I get distracted by the internet easily while in game). If Nintendo is able to get the same support MS and Sony have been getting this generation on the Wii U I think we'll both be happy campers.

Just a bit curious. Did you get some of the multiplatform games on PC or did you skip most of them all together? I'm talking about 360/PS3/PC multiplats.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

After this post, I'm not posting unless there is news. You guys move much to fast for me to keep up. I'm gone for 5 hours, and you guys fill 3 pages (100)..I don't even.
Also see a thread name change, not sure if I like it.

 

[Akai]

I think if the industry were to get to the armageddon point where only the HUGE players can stay alive due to budgets, Nintendo would thrive from that, considering how endlessly popular their franchises are, and they don't rely on high budgets as a requirement for making them so. Whereas a game like Uncharted 2 and 3 kind of rely on that big spectacle feeling/look which is quite expensive.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how this next generation plays out, considering so few of the players can afford to develop THIS generation's games to its full potential. What difference does it make to have a system that can display such and such X times more than this generation when only a few publishers are going to be able to take advantage of it?

 

[HylianTom]

I don't think I could have gone Nintendo only this generation. I need to play multiplatform games on something other than PC (I get distracted by the internet easily while in game). If Nintendo is able to get the same support MS and Sony have been getting this generation on the Wii U I think we'll both be happy campers.

Just a bit curious. Did you get some of the multiplatform games on PC or did you skip most of them all together? I'm talking about 360/PS3/PC multiplats.

I only buy those two game series on the PC. Civ and Elder Scrolls. It's been that way for the past two decades.. kinda old-school.

Who started the "Ninthings" thing anyway? The only one I can remember using it was Billychu, and Billychu is just lovely and nobody should take insult in what he (she?) says. Dat Girlbeard.

I've seen a few folks use it around NeoGAF when directing their hate towards us. So I use it sarcastically. If I were to use certain epithets for fans of other consoles.. hmm..

 

[Redford]

Nintendo got shafted for 15 years straight though. In those years there have been combinations of more/equal/less power and more/equal/less sales and Nintendo always got shafted. How come Nintendo is the only one who has to have the most powerful hardware most sales and a candycane on top to even be considered for a game?

I have no investment in this argument's history prior to the Wii, even though I'm sure that factors heavily into the phenomena.

It really is a shame that this happens, but the way I see it is that having both the third-party games I like and Nintendo's awesome experiences is just too perfect, too sweet for me to ever have.

After this post, I'm not posting unless there is news. You guys move much to fast for me to keep up. I'm gone for 5 hours, and you guys fill 3 pages (100)..I don't even.
Also see a thread name change, not sure if I like it.

True, but this is where I make the distinction.. they might have been "significantly better," but this does not magically remove the "good enough" tag from the X Level. Add that the X Level hardware is more sustainable to develop for and is the market leader, and my pity for developers going buh-bye evaporates.. poof.

Ah, that's fair. And it's not like devs going poof is a bad thing. The talent simply reforms into (hopefully) better studios and overall, a better industry.

 

[cyberheater]

Could you please elaborate more on that? If I understand correctly it means that it is just a layer between the programming language and hardware. Correct?

So what is the difference between a "programming library" and a "high level programming language" and why does the hardware need a "layer" to communicate?

I'm pretty sure I got everything wrong

Yes. It provides a high level programming interface that allows you to control the hardware.

An example (fake code) might be.

Setscreenrez (1024,768);

The library command 'Setscreenrez' would the do all the low level work to talk to the GPU to set the screen resolution.

Actual code looks like this:-

hWnd= CreateWindowEx(NULL,L"WindowClass",L"My GAF Game",WS_EX_TOPMOST | WS_POPUP, 0, 0,1024, 768,NULL,NULL,hInstance,NULL);

 

[Linkhero1]

I only buy those two game series on the PC. Civ and Elder Scrolls. It's been that way for the past two decades.. kinda old-school.


I've seen a few folks use it around NeoGAF when directing their hate towards us. So I use it sarcastically.

Oh I see. So you haven't really touched anything that's on PS3/360 this generation. I think you're going to like some of the multiplats on the Wii U then. Especially Batman.

After this post, I'm not posting unless there is news. You guys move much to fast for me to keep up. I'm gone for 5 hours, and you guys fill 3 pages (100)..I don't even.
Also see a thread name change, not sure if I like it.

I'm with you. Going to bail out after the 26th up until the week before E3.

 

[HylianTom]

Oh I see. So you haven't really touched anything that's on PS3/360 this generation. I think you're going to like some of the multiplats on the Wii U then. Especially Batman.

I sometimes play at my brother-in-law's house. The last game from there I played was Red Dead Redemption, but my enthusiasm waned when I got to Mexico..

But otherwise, I've seen little-to-nothing of that library. Batman is near the top of my launch game wish list!

 

[EatChildren]

Allthough with AC I feel it's been done before, but not as uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Extensive maybe. To me AC feels a bit like the younger brother of the Prince of Persia franchise. The younger brother feels the need to be more succesfull and cooler than it's older brother but fails miserably imo. It has the same flaws as the PoP franchise (shitty combat) but doesn't follow the same linear path in level/game design. Even with the open structure I got bored quickly. But that might be just me though. I was really hyped for AC and when I played it for the first time, I thought it was downright awfull. AC II wasn't very good either.

On a combat level, and feel of character movement, yeah it was an evolution of the Prince of Persia formula. But the scope of the game is far greater, to the point where it becomes something else entirely. There really isn't another sandbox parkour series like it. I'm not fond of the franchise for many, many reasons and think they're all pretty flawed, but in terms of being original, as in offering something that cannot be found elsewhere, they do a pretty good job. As for the AC->AC2 thing, it was mostly how Ubisoft evolved the formula and bulked the package with more substance. Again, I wasn't really a fan, but they did some big things and answered a lot of the fan complaints.

AC is just one of those series I have a ton of problems with, but think in terms of conceptualisation and technological execution is really quite original. Original in the sense that it offers something you cannot find elsewhere.

 

[ASIS]

Yes. It provides a high level programming interface that allows you to control the hardware.

An example (fake code) might be.

Setscreenrez (1024,768);

The library command 'Setscreenrez' would the do all the low level work to talk to the GPU to set the screen resolution.

Actual code looks like this:-

hWnd= CreateWindowEx(NULL,L"WindowClass",L"My GAF Game",WS_EX_TOPMOST | WS_POPUP, 0, 0,1024, 768,NULL,NULL,hInstance,NULL);

oh ok, thank you very much

 

[Shurayuki]

After this post, I'm not posting unless there is news. You guys move much to fast for me to keep up. I'm gone for 5 hours, and you guys fill 3 pages (100)..I don't even.
Also see a thread name change, not sure if I like it.

Dame!

In these time's where we lose brave soldiers almost daily, you can't bail!

At this rate we'll need an own subforum for WiiU speculation threads though.

Please don't go!

 

[Deguello]

If Nintendo didn't make amazing games from their first parties, they'd be up shit creek. So I take that as a given.

And if they hadn't made the games at all, again I say, you all would have been angry for being shunned.

I think my point still stands. Nintendo was able to give their customers quality and thus achieved the most success this generation out of all developers. They did this through supporting the market leader with high quality product. Just because they're also a platform holder doesn't mean they aren't also a developer trying to sell video games too.

While I would have been angry at being shunned, just as I am also angry at being burned on bad products. Whether they were intentionally bad or unintentionally has no bearing. There can be all the the "business" reasons in the world for the product being bad, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it and support it with money. Put yourself in the shoes of your average consumer. You wouldn't care about the business reasons the company gives you why the product you bought was bad or why they consider you a second class customer. You'll just not buy from them again and instead buy from a company that makes quality product. Regardless of what console anybody owns, they still, as customers, deserve the right to demand a good product, or at least an in-good-faith attempt at one. Third parties, mostly, delivered neither.

Also being told to your face that you're not worth the effort probably isn't the best way to foster customer relations. So while Nintendo may have some work to do patching up relations with other third parties, even if only to reduce the sour taste left in the mouth of both parties due to the situation, third parties, as a group or individually, have a lot more patching up to do with their Wii and potential Wii U customers.

 

[HylianTom]

Sucks to see these folks go.. I really hope y'all get weak and come running back when the first bit of news shows-up!

Time for me to bail, too. But just for some hours.. did I mention that I hate moving?
(on the plus side, I'm going to have one hell of a gaming space when all is said and done)

 

[Sadist]

AC is just one of those series I have a ton of problems with, but think in terms of conceptualisation and technological execution is really quite original. Original in the sense that it offers something you cannot find elsewhere.

That's true, can't disagree.

Western devs did give us some original content this generation but I don't mind if there are devs that copy concepts from other games. I mean, every now and those "safe" games can deliver as well. Dead Space comes to mind.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

On a combat level, and feel of character movement, yeah it was an evolution of the Prince of Persia formula. But the scope of the game is far greater, to the point where it becomes something else entirely. There really isn't another sandbox parkour series like it. I'm not fond of the franchise for many, many reasons and think they're all pretty flawed, but in terms of being original, as in offering something that cannot be found elsewhere, they do a pretty good job. As for the AC->AC2 thing, it was mostly how Ubisoft evolved the formula and bulked the package with more substance. Again, I wasn't really a fan, but they did some big things and answered a lot of the fan complaints.

AC is just one of those series I have a ton of problems with, but think in terms of conceptualisation and technological execution is really quite original. Original in the sense that it offers something you cannot find elsewhere.

so why aren't you a fan?

 

[EatChildren]

so why aren't you a fan?

I find the story ludicrously stupid (though the actual script and voice work is excellent), the combat exceptionally shallow and dull (my biggest complaint with the series), and the sandbox stealth design as a whole falling short of its potential. The experience I want from AC is unfortunately not what the games strive for. I'd prefer something more aggressive, demanding and challenging, I guess a bit more Metroid/Zelda like in how items are used, rather than "unstoppable superhero of history" that AC actually is. For the same reasons I grew tired of the 3D GTA games (Chinatown Wars aside) I find the AC series a bit boring to play.

But I do find myself drawn to the series. I've played through all of them (though to be fair, Revelations and Brotherhood because I had to review them), and will check out AC3 eventually.

 

[Shurayuki]

Sucks to see these folks go.. I really hope y'all get weak and come running back when the first bit of news shows-up!

Time for me to bail, too. But just for some hours.. did I mention that I hate moving?
(on the plus side, I'm going to have one hell of a gaming space when all is said and done)

You just associate it with Sony Move, don't be such a Ninthing ;P ♥
You better have internet already sorted out at your new place, we need you to keep this thread moving at the speed of light!

I find the story ludicrously stupid (though the actual script and voice work is excellent), the combat exceptionally shallow and dull (my biggest complaint with the series), and the sandbox stealth design as a whole falling short of its potential. The experience I want from AC is unfortunately not what the games strive for. I'd prefer something more aggressive, demanding and challenging, I guess a bit more Metroid/Zelda like in how items are used, rather than "unstoppable superhero of history" that AC actually is. For the same reasons I grew tired of the 3D GTA games (Chinatown Wars aside) I find the AC series a bit boring to play.

But I do find myself drawn to the series. I've played through all of them (though to be fair, Revelations and Brotherhood because I had to review them), and will check out AC3 eventually.

Considering the object matter of the series, wouldn't something akin to Hitman:Blood Money make sense? I feel the assassinations often feel very trivial.

 

[blu]

Yes. It provides a high level programming interface that allows you to control the hardware.

An example (fake code) might be.

Setscreenrez (1024,768);

The library command 'Setscreenrez' would the do all the low level work to talk to the GPU to set the screen resolution.

Actual code looks like this:-

hWnd= CreateWindowEx(NULL,L"WindowClass",L"My GAF Game",WS_EX_TOPMOST | WS_POPUP, 0, 0,1024, 768,NULL,NULL,hInstance,NULL);

Posting win32 code in a wiiU thread. Tsk tsk tsk.

 

[Deguello]

After this post, I'm not posting unless there is news. You guys move much to fast for me to keep up. I'm gone for 5 hours, and you guys fill 3 pages (100)..I don't even.
Also see a thread name change, not sure if I like it.

I'm about to do the same, at least for a while. I hate talking about third parties. It gets my blood up and I don't want to say something I shouldn't.

 

[Nibel]

If by Revelations you mean Resident Evil, then yes.

Mhmm.. I just played through it once and never touched my copy again.
The part on the ship is brilliant in everything - the only major flaw are the designs of the monsters you encounter.

But those action parts were bad in my opinion. They felt so misplaced.. and the amount of playable characters is too high. If I can choose between them in multiplayer - okay. But to involve them into the campaign.

Okay, for a handheld RE it's pretty cool. But they could have made something even better if they would stop thinking that the game needs that crazy action sequences. You can rape the console REs like you want Capcpom, but make the handheld games different.

*Kisses his RE4 copy* there will be nothing like you, never.

 

[EatChildren]

Considering the object matter of the series, wouldn't something akin to Hitman:Blood Money make sense? I feel the assassinations often feel very trivial.

That's mostly it. If it were up to me, the series would be less sandboxy in its use of items and equipment. Less fluff and toys to play with, more depth and emphasis on how these toys are used to complete your missions. As it is they've added lots of crap to play with, but uses vary and it's entirely up to the player how they'll go about things.

Which is the point of the game, and why it appeals to its audience. Freedom of play, lots of equipment to pick and chose from, everything viable. I'd like tighter, more personal mission/equipment design, but what can you do?

 

[Redford]

Sucks to see these folks go.. I really hope y'all get weak and come running back when the first bit of news shows-up!

Time for me to bail, too. But just for some hours.. did I mention that I hate moving?
(on the plus side, I'm going to have one hell of a gaming space when all is said and done)

Pics when finished? :3

Also being told to your face that you're not worth the effort probably isn't the best way to foster customer relations. So while Nintendo may have some work to do patching up relations with other third parties, even if only to reduce the sour taste left in the mouth of both parties due to the situation, third parties, as a group or individually, have a lot more patching up to do with their Wii and potential Wii U customers.

Good post, and I agree.

 

[Mickdundee96]

I'll be a one-console guy as always

Spoiler

(honestly? I refuse to support those who would love to squeeze Nintendo out of the console market)

, but my PC gaming time might take a hit.

I usually go to PC for Elder Scrolls or Civ time when there's a lull in the Nintendo release schedule. This gen, I wasn't on PC very much; between the Wii and the DS, Nintendo really came-through for me.


True, but this is where I make the distinction.. they might have been "significantly better," but this does not magically remove the "good enough" tag from the X Level. Add that the X Level hardware is more sustainable to develop for and is the market leader, and my pity for developers going buh-bye evaporates.. poof.

It makes me laugh. GTA San Andreas was possible on a PS2 but a similar (original) game in scope from 3rd parties isn't possible on the Wii.

It's easier to make an excuse than a decent game I suppose. Creatively bankrupt devs whose stale gameplay ideas can't be glossed over with a new lick of paint have been found wanting and it's everybody elses fault but their own.

 

[bluemax]

Could you please elaborate more on that? If I understand correctly it means that it is just a layer between the programming language and hardware. Correct?

So what is the difference between a "programming library" and a "high level programming language" and why does the hardware need a "layer" to communicate?

I'm pretty sure I got everything wrong

DirectX abstracts a lot of functionality needed to make a game.

For example, DirectX comes with a set of functions for creating textures, you pass in data about the texture and it handles the drawing of it for you. If you were using say, OpenGL then you have to do a lot more work in order to draw a simple texture.

A programming library like DirectX is a set of classes/functions/interfaces that provide common functionality for programmers and save you time in creating a game.

A high level programming language is just that, a language. IE C++, C#, OBJ-C. These are tools for writing software without having to do it in machine code (assembly). APIs (application programming interfaces) like DirectX are written to interface with high level languages.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I find the story ludicrously stupid (though the actual script and voice work is excellent), the combat exceptionally shallow and dull (my biggest complaint with the series), and the sandbox stealth design as a whole falling short of its potential. The experience I want from AC is unfortunately not what the games strive for. I'd prefer something more aggressive, demanding and challenging, I guess a bit more Metroid/Zelda like in how items are used, rather than "unstoppable superhero of history" that AC actually is. For the same reasons I grew tired of the 3D GTA games (Chinatown Wars aside) I find the AC series a bit boring to play.

But I do find myself drawn to the series. I've played through all of them (though to be fair, Revelations and Brotherhood because I had to review them), and will check out AC3 eventually.

I see. I can't argue with it, I agree with the criticisms as well but am also drawn to it for reasons I'm not entirely sure of. Except fuck brotherhood and revelations (only played brotherhood).

that's another trend I hate this gen. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but has this generation been the one with the least new IPs? I think it has been...I hate the idea that when you strike gold on something, that becomes your endless focus year in and year out, rather than using its success to try and build something new.

 

[BurntPork]

Although the Wii U will most likely support an API that is quite similar to OpenGL, it is quite likely that it won't be the preferred way to program the system. APIs based on OpenGL are available on the 3DS and PS3, but almost all games use a different way to program the graphics. The Wii U will likely have the same. OpenGL is often perceived as clunky and too generic.

Willing to bet that's why some devs are getting sub-current-gen results.

 

[AceBandage]

Willing to bet that's why some devs are getting sub-current-gen results.

No. We already know why.
Because they are trying to run their middle ware like the system is a 360.

 

[Mickdundee96]

Willing to bet that's why some devs are getting sub-current-gen results.

And the same devs will be moaning soon enough that they're getting sub-current-gen results.

Tough Titties

What happened there

 

[Nibel]

No. We already know why.
Because they are trying to run their middle ware like the system is a 360.

Which is funny because the Wii U is a 360

 

[BurntPork]

No. We already know why.
Because they are trying to run their middle ware like the system is a 360.

... Which would be related to the API differences.

 

[Terrell]

Although the Wii U will most likely support an API that is quite similar to OpenGL, it is quite likely that it won't be the preferred way to program the system. APIs based on OpenGL are available on the 3DS and PS3, but almost all games use a different way to program the graphics. The Wii U will likely have the same. OpenGL is often perceived as clunky and too generic.

Well, it's not like there's other ideal choices comparable to OpenGL. If you want to develop on ANYTHING not owned by Microsoft, OpenGL is REQUIRED knowledge. So if people don't know how to exploit it in this industry, then they really don't have much of a place within it, if you ask me.

 

[botty]

What was the last rumored kits given out? They're probably giving the best stuff to big names and those with exclusives.

 

[abasm]

What was the last rumored kits given out? They're probably giving the best stuff to big names and those with exclusives.

Are there any third-party exclusives for the Wii U that we know of? (third-party exclusivity is becoming rarer these days.)

 

[botty]

Are there any third-party exclusives for the Wii U that we know of? (third-party exclusivity is becoming rarer these days.)

Killer Freaks, the inevitable Capcom "timed-exclusived," inevitable WiiUpad games.

 

[Akai]

Which is funny because the Wii U is a 360

*rolls eyes*

 

[cyberheater]

Well, it's not like there's other ideal choices comparable to OpenGL. If you want to develop on ANYTHING not owned by Microsoft, OpenGL is REQUIRED knowledge. So if people don't know how to exploit it in this industry, then they really don't have much of a place within it, if you ask me.

I guess if you're going to write your own game engine from scratch then you'll need to know your way around openGL but I think most devs will use a third party engine like UE3 or Cryengine which will need to be heavily optimized for WiiU.

There are other free open source OpenGL game engines available like the Irrlicht Engine where you don't have to get your hands dirty in low level OpenGL commands.

 

[AceBandage]

... Which would be related to the API differences.

No, it would be more related to differences in architecture.

 

[BurntPork]

No, it would be more related to differences in architecture.

Or, most likely, a combination of both. and the architectures are pretty similar.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I guess if you're going to write your own game engine from scratch then you'll need to know your way around openGL but I think most devs will use a third party engine like UE3 or Cryengine which will need to be heavily optimized for WiiU.

There are other free open source OpenGL game engines available like the Irrlicht Engine where you don't have to get your hands dirty in low level OpenGL commands.

And it's those developers who end up creating games with low quality graphics or poor framerates. A great graphics programmer can really push the hardware working with low level graphics calls compared to some generic game engine designed to work decently for any type of game on multiple platforms. Someone working *directly* with the hardware rather than OpenGL can push it even further, but few developers will go to that effort, and that would end up with a game hard to port to another console.

 

[AceBandage]

Or, most likely, a combination of both. and the architectures are pretty similar.

No, the Wii U has different DSPs and such.

 

[GameplayWhore]

After this post, I'm not posting unless there is news. You guys move much to fast for me to keep up. I'm gone for 5 hours, and you guys fill 3 pages (100)..I don't even.
Also see a thread name change, not sure if I like it.

There was some very minor things which could be considered either news or things to heed:

post #2803, "Universal Remote Controller" Wii U patent (Was there a link to this? I didn't see it)

post #2842, "Some WiiU talk, considering price (manufacturing cost rumor), Darksider dev saying there are limitations/challenges when working on WiiU", "http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-204-invisible-walls/729198"

post #2878, "IBM is expected to provide guidance for Fiscal year 2012, and in that there should be at least a mention of Wii U. While the amount of Wii U processors that are going to be shipped by year end surely doesn't account for any larger segment of IBM's business, it is certainly something special and something that doesn't occur too frequently. The 50 millionth processor for Wii was shipped in March of 2009, which then would have equaled an average of 1 724 137 processors shipped a month."

No, the Wii U has different DSPs and such.

Right… hardware specific to handle audio processing, correct? In cases where that would take up a substantial portion of cpu time on the Xbox 360, the calculations would be free on the Wii U. But you have to actually use the hardware.

 

[cyberheater]

And it's those developers who end up creating games with low quality graphics or poor framerates. A great graphics programmer can really push the hardware working with low level graphics calls compared to some generic game engine designed to work decently for any type of game on multiple platforms. Someone working *directly* with the hardware rather than OpenGL can push it even further, but few developers will go to that effort, and that would end up with a game hard to port to another console.

So true but I hope Nintendo first party devs will go the extra mile and really push the hardware and for once, share the tech with third party devs to enable better performing products. Sony is a good role model in this instance.

No, the Wii U has different DSPs and such.

I thought the DSPs were for sound. From what I can tell (guess work). The architecture of WiiU is relatively similar to Xbox360 and rightly so to enable quick and efficient ports. I believe that was a design goal for Nintendo.

 

[cyberheater]

Posting win32 code in a wiiU thread. Tsk tsk tsk.

LOL. Well, he did ask

 

[GameplayWhore]

So true but I hope Nintendo first party devs will go the extra mile and really push the hardware and for once, share the tech with third party devs to enable better performing products. Sony is a good role model in this instance.



I thought the DSPs were for sound. From what I can tell (guess work). The architecture of WiiU is relatively similar to Xbox360 and rightly so to enable quick and efficient ports. I believe that was a design goal for Nintendo.

The 360 and Wii U might use different SIMD (et al) instructions, as well. While they're both Power-based chips, different cpu lines can have different instruction extensions (like how AMD had "3DNow!" floating-point SIMD extensions, then Intel introduced their "SSE" instructions some time later; they were both x86 chips, but if you wrote code that used SSE math, then the 3DNow! chips would essentially have to just use the regular floating-point units to run similar calculations, and that's a lot slower).

Edit: That example is more extreme because it involved two different chipmakers using the same architecture, while our current situation involves IBM being the chipmaker in both cases

 

[BurntPork]

I thought the DSPs were for sound. From what I can tell (guess work). The architecture of WiiU is relatively similar to Xbox360 and rightly so to enable quick and efficient ports. I believe that was a design goal for Nintendo.

More like coincidence. Wii U's architecture is exactly what you'd expect to see after Wii