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[zzill3]

No way MS can "afford" this to be permanent. It'll be too cheap.

If there’s any company who could afford it, MS have to be one of them. That it’s a digital only console helps a lot, though. You can’t return your digital library, so if you want to keep access to those games you’ll be getting an xbox every gen in the future as well.

Every game bought through a series S ties people to the ecosystem forever

 

[Ronin_7]

You know it's bad when you make 2 consecutive Price cuts & still manage to lose Xbox strongest territory sales Wise

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

If there’s any company who could afford it, MS have to be one of them. That it’s a digital only console helps a lot, though. You can’t return your digital library, so if you want to keep access to those games you’ll be getting an xbox every gen in the future as well.

Every game bought through a series S ties people to the ecosystem forever

Not everyone plays the same games all his life, most people play a game and move on. The backwards compatibility evangelist are not the majority, no one is locked anywhere. Next consoles comes and if it's good will sell if not the competition will sell.

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

I will wait until starfield, this thing does not worth even 100 if there is nothing to play on it.

 

[PeteBull]

So if MS is losing $200 on every XB Series S sold at $300, then why are they willing to lose up to $260 now with this new pricing permanently? I swear I can't see how this will play how well for them. Ultimately, if I were MS I'd want most gamers to get the Series X! It's where their 1st party games will shine best.

I think total xbox series sales are not enough for gamepass to be big, so MS trying to push cheaper xss just for the hopes another 10-15m consoles gonna bump up gamepass subs too, for all those subscription services, unlike for actual games sales it makes tremendous difference to have huge instal base.
Its simply kinda like an add on.

U got similar situation with psvr2, u dont have enough ps5 sales yet so it will basically be a bomba, not coz its bad product in itself(altho very niche for obvious reason- massmarket doesnt give a damn about vr), just if u had 2x ps5 sold in the wild it would directly translate to 2x psvr2 sales(roughly).

 

[crackajack]

Geez. Bought my XSS 2 days ago for 299 euro.

How is that even possible? In which country?
I think the last time I saw the S for the supposed regular price must have been at launch. Since then it always was somewhere around 260-270 max. On amazon.de (price comparison site: https://geizhals.at/?phist=2378114&age=366).
And while I think it is actually worth the MSRP, why does anyone who wants it and seems to check gaming forums, buy that thing a few weeks after the Black Friday deals which were not a limited quantity offer?

 

[DenchDeckard]

£199..99 two years after launch seems a good shout for this box. I expect this to be permanent within the year, and we may see a 1tb option appear at the £249.99 price point.

 

[DenchDeckard]

So if MS is losing $200 on every XB Series S sold at $300, then why are they willing to lose up to $260 now with this new pricing permanently? I swear I can't see how this will play how well for them. Ultimately, if I were MS I'd want most gamers to get the Series X! It's where their 1st party games will shine best.

The reality is, that number was probably massively over inflated. I cant see how they can lose that much money on such a well designed product. It just doesnt make sense. Somewhere the facts must be incorrect.

 

[Elios83]

It's clear they need these promotions to sell their product, it's also clear that even with these promotions they were in third place in overall sales in US, Europe and Japan in November. Under these conditions it's really hard to think the price can go back up, they also have effectively devalued the product.
Maybe in January Series S will be priced at 249$ or even 229$ permanently?

 

[Ozriel]

So if MS is losing $200 on every XB Series S sold at $300, then why are they willing to lose up to $260 now with this new pricing permanently? I swear I can't see how this will play how well for them. Ultimately, if I were MS I'd want most gamers to get the Series X! It's where their 1st party games will shine best.

MS would prefer gamers get the Series X, largely because X owners are likely buying more third party games.

They’re happy with Series S sales because it has a high Gamepass conversion rate.

Games ‘shining’ is probably the least of their concerns.

Phil's full of shit and front loading unamoratized expenses like Nintendo and Hollywood accountants do. There is no chance whatsoever the BoM (that is the material and assembly cost) is anywhere near $400-$500 for a Series S, what an absolutely comical exaggeration. The SoC is less than 200mm^2 on a now aging mainstream node with 8GB of middling RAM, 2GB of trash tier RAM, no disk drive, and a bargain bin 512GB nvme. Even a $200 BoM would be pushing it, but with packaging and shipping I could see $239 being their break even.

If the base Steamdeck with a much cheaper RDNA2 SoC and a 64gb eMMC is barely making any money at $399, im not sure how Series S would be break even at $239.

But I agree that any claims of losing $200 on the Series S are nonsense.

 

[Superayate]

MS should stop teasing us and reduce the price to $200 permanently. It would save us from reading Xbox Series S discount threads from the OP every few days.

Constant sales for your products devalue it and makes consumers wait for sales or deals before buying it. It seems MS didn't learn from their Xbox one mistakes where they had fire sales every day.

I think that's the first time I completely agree with you.

 

[yazenov]

I think that's the first time I completely agree with you.

Thanks . It means a lot to me that my post finally got your approval.

 

[damidu]

poor s won’t be recovering from this, expect this to become the regular price soon after holidays, and possibly lower not too far off.
no need to hurry if you are in market for one.

 

[Portugeezer]

Tempting, but then I'll be waiting 6 months for Starfield. They'll probably be a new deal before then...

 

[Winter™]

How is that even possible? In which country?
I think the last time I saw the S for the supposed regular price must have been at launch. Since then it always was somewhere around 260-270 max. On amazon.de (price comparison site: https://geizhals.at/?phist=2378114&age=366).
And while I think it is actually worth the MSRP, why does anyone who wants it and seems to check gaming forums, buy that thing a few weeks after the Black Friday deals which were not a limited quantity offer?

The Netherlands.

 

[crackajack]

The Netherlands.

out of interest checked current prices: amazon.nl follows the 229 price the OP wrote, while in Germany it is 222 on amazon and media markt too, so I guess everywhere. Seems they really try to sell Series S here and you should have made a trip over the border if its reasonable close to you.

 

[nightmare-slain]

£199 is a fucking steal but at this point when we're nearly in 2023 i'm not buying any current gen console.

if MS release an updated Series S next year i'll jump the fuck right on that.

 

[Bojanglez]

£199 is a fucking steal but at this point when we're nearly in 2023 i'm not buying any current gen console.

if MS release an updated Series S next year i'll jump the fuck right on that.

Realistically people are going to need to buy additional storage quite quickly if you play multiple games, but it is a great headline price. Perfect console for kids that want to play next-gen Fortnite all the time.

I have seen kids in stores literally empty their savings out of their money-box onto the counter to get one, they are that kind of attainable price range.

 

[Dick Jones]

I don't want to sound too negative but a permanent drop in the price of the Series S doesn't mesh with Spencer's interview about increasing costs in the future.

If you are on the fence, get it. i could see an increase of around 20 bucks in 2023. For about 200 dollarydoos and scamming the GPU $1 loophole it's a decent addition to a gaming setup. If 200 doesn't tempt you I doubt any price would.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I'm enjoying my Series S. I have a PS5 as my primary. It does make most of the jump to the "next gen experience" imo. I know there's cuts on resolution and details, but in motion it's not bad at all. I'm not big on Battle Royale games, but Lumen RTGI looks pretty amazing in Fortnite despite the resolution and some reflection cuts, engines and tools will continue to make better use of what we have.

I do think things are almost the opposite of what enthusiast forums like this think. It's not holding them back, it's on sale through Christmas because it's what's going to make up their numbers over the holiday. PS5 outsells Xbox 2:1, imagine how much worse they'd be if it was only the Series X with bigger chips and lower availability, and not dominating some emerging markets for the low cost.

 

[mckmas8808]

The reality is, that number was probably massively over inflated. I cant see how they can lose that much money on such a well designed product. It just doesnt make sense. Somewhere the facts must be incorrect.

If the base Steamdeck with a much cheaper RDNA2 SoC and a 64gb eMMC is barely making any money at $399, im not sure how Series S would be break even at $239.

But I agree that any claims of losing $200 on the Series S are nonsense.

Guys.....why would Phil lie about the loses they are having on Series S and X though? Why make matters worse, when telling the truth or just not saying anything would be better.....

 

[Dural]

Bought my 6yo one for christmas when Target had them for $249 with a controller (canceled the controller so got the Series S for $200), also got one for my nephews when MS store had it for $249 with the headset. Used Xbox giftcards that I bought at 20% off so ended up only paying ~$245 for the S, headset, and an extra controller. My oldest son also has an S, he got that for Christmas in 2020. It's a great console for kids, plays all the battle royale games, minecraft, and roblox perfectly. None of them have 4K tvs in their rooms either, so 1080p is fine.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Guys.....why would Phil lie about the loses they are having on Series S and X though? Why make matters worse, when telling the truth or just not saying anything would be better.....

I really have no idea, have you got a link to the quote?

Wouldn't that put the series s in ps5 cost territory? I just can't see how thats possible

 

[Hoddi]

I really have no idea, have you got a link to the quote?

Wouldn't that put the series s in ps5 cost territory? I just can't see how thats possible

I saw the interview and Spencer never said any of that. He was just explaining how the console market differed from the phone market and why consoles are sold at a loss. The actual line was just that Xbox consoles are subsidized by somewhere between $100 and $200 and hysterical gamers in their usual fashion turned that into a $200 loss on each Series S.

The full interview is here if you want to see it. The question comes up shortly after the 10m mark.

https://video-api.wsj.com/api-video/player/iframe.html?guid=195A5DB5-FF0F-48A8-90CD-9662D56A108C

 

[NeverYouMind]

I acquired it for that price and am extremely happy with it. It is an emulation beast with multiple generations of titles and makes me a bit jealous of how much better multiplatform titles were for Xbox systems. Also, I love the snappy interface with quick resume and sturdy controller. Way better than Sony on that end.

 

[mckmas8808]

I saw the interview and Spencer never said any of that. He was just explaining how the console market differed from the phone market and why consoles are sold at a loss. The actual line was just that Xbox consoles are subsidized by somewhere between $100 and $200 and hysterical gamers in their usual fashion turned that into a $200 loss on each Series S.

The full interview is here if you want to see it. The question comes up shortly after the 10m mark.

https://video-api.wsj.com/api-video/player/iframe.html?guid=195A5DB5-FF0F-48A8-90CD-9662D56A108C

That's what subsidized means though........

 

[Ozriel]

That's what subsidized means though........

I suggest you re-read his post. He’s saying Spencer never said they’re losing $200 on each Series S console.

 

[Hoddi]

That's what subsidized means though........

A blanket statement about consoles being sold at loss doesn’t mean that Series S is being sold at $200 loss. There’s little reason to think that he was even talking about both of the consoles.

There’s good reason to think the X might be sold at a loss in that range. Not so much for the S.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

If you're in Australia there's a handy write up of all the deals currently for Xbox Aus, accessories, games, consoles and in stock alerts.

 

[mckmas8808]

A blanket statement about consoles being sold at loss doesn’t mean that Series S is being sold at $200 loss. There’s little reason to think that he was even talking about both of the consoles.

There’s good reason to think the X might be sold at a loss in that range. Not so much for the S.

I think you guys are missing the point. Phil doesn't use that range ($100 - $200) and would only be talking about the XSX. He's clearly talking about both Xbox Series consoles here. Plus the XSS is the higher-selling console, so of course he's talking about the S also.

Is it possible that the BOM on the XSX is $700 and the BOM on the XSS is $400? Yes, but that's hard to believe when Sony was making a profit on the PS5 last year, which meant its BOM was under $499. Why would the XSX cost $200 more than the PS5?

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

This sale doesn't seem to be in Australia at all. I was going to get my daughter a Series S for XMAS but in Aus it's AUD$499 anywhere I can see. At USD$239 it really should be landing around AUD$349-399 at most (with currency conversion and a little shipping). $499 seems like old stock and old pricing with retailer margin gauging?

 

[Matt_Fox]

At just £199 Microsoft are going to hook in a lot of punters on the entry level drug of the Xbox ecosystem...

Once you're in it, you've bought your digital library you've subbed to Game Pass, it's hard to get out. Get 'em addicted then move them on to the hard stuff Series X.

 

[Ansphn]

This is going to be $99.99 by the end of 2023.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think you guys are missing the point. Phil doesn't use that range ($100 - $200) and would only be talking about the XSX. He's clearly talking about both Xbox Series consoles here. Plus the XSS is the higher-selling console, so of course he's talking about the S also.

Is it possible that the BOM on the XSX is $700 and the BOM on the XSS is $400? Yes, but that's hard to believe when Sony was making a profit on the PS5 last year, which meant its BOM was under $499. Why would the XSX cost $200 more than the PS5?

But, the internet is completely fabricating a number from what he said. There is absolutely no hard evidence that the series S is being sold at a $200 dollar loss. I dont think theres anyway any one at MS Xbox would have a job still if they were losing $200 per series S sold.

I'm not buying it at all after that video. Typical fan boy bullshit twisting words.

 

[Markio128]

Does the S stand for shelf?

 

[SportsFan581]

Phil's full of shit and front loading unamoratized expenses like Nintendo and Hollywood accountants do. There is no chance whatsoever the BoM (that is the material and assembly cost) is anywhere near $400-$500 for a Series S, what an absolutely comical exaggeration. The SoC is less than 200mm^2 on a now aging mainstream node with 8GB of middling RAM, 2GB of trash tier RAM, no disk drive, and a bargain bin 512GB nvme. Even a $200 BoM would be pushing it, but with packaging and shipping I could see $239 being their break even.

All the ram is the same from a cost perspective, all identical chips. The one chip just gets used independently, the other four are accessed as a group with data stripped across them.

 

[SportsFan581]

But, the internet is completely fabricating a number from what he said. There is absolutely no hard evidence that the series S is being sold at a $200 dollar loss. I dont think theres anyway any one at MS Xbox would have a job still if they were losing $200 per series S sold.

I'm not buying it at all after that video. Typical fan boy bullshit twisting words.

Completely agree. $400-$500 in parts alone would require MS to be one of the worst negotiators for parts contracts in history. Sure if you include the R&D costs and put that next to the materials cost you might get a number like that (although even then that might be high), but then they are also earning more from the console sale than just the initial purchase.

Spencer was general with the statement saying $100-$200 and could have been referencing the Xbox throughout its entire life span as a product (including the ps360 gen when MS and Sony did eat costs).

 

[NeverYouMind]

It is wierd to post about a videogame console on a videogame forum and be surrounded by armchair CEOs and CFOs.

 

[dano1]

Worst idea for a new system ever. It needs to go away.

 

[DR3AM]

I want one sooo bad for the living room mostly because the MS Store has all the streaming apps

 

[NeverYouMind]

Worst idea for a new system ever. It needs to go away.

How can you think that in a world where Google Stadia exists? From a design perspective it punches far above its weight. None of the current consoles are even on par with high end PCs from half a decade ago and yet everyone expects them to completely alter the boundaries of gaming or something.

 

[DarkMage619]

How can you even say that in a world where Google Stadia exists? From a design perspective it punches far above its weight. None of the current consoles are even on par with high end PCs from half a decade ago and yet everyone expects them to completely alter the boundaries of gaming or something.

Yup it was one of the best ideas from MS because it broadened their audience and gives customers a chance to game for a fair price. Win-win. You can't get a higher performance console for less.

 

[DeepEnigma]

How can you think that in a world where Google Stadia exists?

 

[NeverYouMind]

Technically, Stadia's service won't be discontinued until January 18, 2023.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Technically, Stadia's service won't be discontinued until January 18, 2023.

Nobody uses it. Hence why it failed.

 

[adamsapple]

Technically, Stadia's service won't be discontinued until January 18, 2023.

I can still hear its voice on the wind ...

 

[dano1]

How can you think that in a world where Google Stadia exists? From a design perspective it punches far above its weight. None of the current consoles are even on par with high end PCs from half a decade ago and yet everyone expects them to completely alter the boundaries of gaming or something.

This is a pretty good argument why!

Last week it was announced that upcoming title Gotham Knights would only run at 30 frames per second on consoles, despite being PS5 and Xbox Series X/S exclusive, officially citing the difficulties of maintaining a higher frame rate when providing a supposedly seamless cooperative experience and "highly detailed open-world." Disappointment surrounding this then circled online, where Lee Denovald from Rocksteady (who was not involved in Gotham Knights' development) blamed the Xbox Series S GPU and claimed this generation of gaming to be "hamstrung by that potato." Denovald noted that Microsoft "won't let you launch on one without the other," which forces developers to optimize for the Xbox Series S, an assertion that has been recently backed up by indie developer Ian Maclure.

 

[NeverYouMind]

That seems to be a developer problem, not a hardware problem. Assassin Creed Unity did seemless 4 player co-op in a detailed 3D environment on the PS4/XBONE. Besides, they can make a graphics mode option that would work well only on higher end machines. I have seen the various versions of Witcher III: Complete Edition that are able to scale to the hardware.

 

[twilo99]

Worst idea for a new system ever. It needs to go away.

The opposite will happen, it will be in your face more and more...

 

[Captain Toad]

We have to deal with this bottleneck all generation, because people can't just buy a Series X or PS5.