PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

The world was gloomy before I won - there was no hope. Now the market is up nearly 10% and Christmas spending is over a trillion dollars!
6:32 PM · Dec 26, 2016
 
Actually re: media favoritism, I remember reading something interesting a while ago about Hollywood... this came up around the time Frank Underwood was pushing for school vouchers, IIRC. Hollywood tends to make their political villains Democrats, if they have a party at all; they won't have them take Democratic positions, mind, but they'll be affiliated with the party. The reason they do this (apparently) is because the calls of bias are always, ALWAYS stronger from the Republicans; so, if they make the bad guy a Republican, they inevitably catch unnecessary shit. Democrats don't seem to mind that stuff as much, so as the villains they are cast. This leads to an unfortunate issue in the comparative mindset of the two groups, abig part of why we keep getting our asses kicked:

Democrats (broadly speaking) believe that they're voting for an issue, or they're voting for a person. They're voting for a solution through the process. Republicans are fighting a war. It's a war for the heart, soul, culture, etc. of America. They will excuse basically any sin committed in the name of that cause, because that's how people act when they're at war, and any assault (real or perceived) against them draws dire reprisals. As long as Democrats judge their leaders by dramatically different standards than Republicans, we're going to have dramatically reduced options.
 
Poodlestrike said:
Actually re: media favoritism, I remember reading something interesting a while ago about Hollywood... this came up around the time Frank Underwood was pushing for school vouchers, IIRC. Hollywood tends to make their political villains Democrats, if they have a party at all; they won't have them take Democratic positions, mind, but they'll be affiliated with the party. The reason they do this (apparently) is because the calls of bias are always, ALWAYS stronger from the Republicans; so, if they make the bad guy a Republican, they inevitably catch unnecessary shit. Democrats don't seem to mind that stuff as much, so as the villains they are cast. This leads to an unfortunate issue in the comparative mindset of the two groups, abig part of why we keep getting our asses kicked:

Democrats (broadly speaking) believe that they're voting for an issue, or they're voting for a person. They're voting for a solution through the process. Republicans are fighting a war. It's a war for the heart, soul, culture, etc. of America. They will excuse basically any sin committed in the name of that cause, because that's how people act when they're at war, and any assault (real or perceived) against them draws dire reprisals. As long as Democrats judge their leaders by dramatically different standards than Republicans, we're going to have dramatically reduced options.
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In 2008, I bet there were a tonne of Republicans making this post almost word for word, but with R and D swapped the other way round.
 
I just recognized something Kansas actually ended up as more democratic then the nation compared to 2012 despite trump still winning the state by around 20 points. Don't know if that may be bad news for the gop on the local and federal there in the future but there may be at least 2-5 counties in that state that may be able to be flipped towards the democrats on the presidential level in 2020 in that state. The counties that I think can potentially be flipped to the democrats in 2020 are shawnee county, riley county and johnson county.
 
mo60 said:
I just recognized something Kansas actually ended up as more democratic then the nation compared to 2012 despite trump still winning the state by around 20 points. Don't know if that may be bad news for the gop on the local and federal there in the future but there may be at least 2-5 counties in that state that may be able to be flipped towards the democrats on the presidential level in 2020 in that state. The counties that I think can potentially be flipped to the democrats in 2020 are shawnee county, riley county and johnson county.
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It certainly seems like a good place to put the 50 state strategy to the test.
 
Poodlestrike said:
Yes, but they were wrong, which I think is an important distinction. Call me crazy.
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You're fighting for the soul of America just as much as they are. The difference isn't that Democrats are actually fighting for policies, it's that Democrats like to pretend they fight for policies and sometimes even manage to convince themselves they're fighting for policies, whereas Republicans haven't mastered that level of self-deception yet.
 
Crab said:
You're fighting for the soul of America just as much as they are. The difference isn't that Democrats are actually fighting for policies, it's that Democrats like to pretend they fight for policies and sometimes even manage to convince themselves they're fighting for policies, whereas Republicans haven't mastered that level of self-deception yet.
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I just disagree entirely; that runs entirely counter to my experience and observations of how Democrats and Republicans think and behave. Do you have any data?
 
Crab said:
You're fighting for the soul of America just as much as they are. The difference isn't that Democrats are actually fighting for policies, it's that Democrats like to pretend they fight for policies and sometimes even manage to convince themselves they're fighting for policies, whereas Republicans haven't mastered that level of self-deception yet.
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This makes no sense, crab. It doesn't.

There's a laundry list of policies Democrats actively fight for that I could list, but I'm not going to waste my time because you know them.

Republicans have defined themselves the last 8 years as the opposition party.

Unless what you mean is that Democrats in 2016 don't know how to fight for policies, which might be something the last month would force me to agree with. But you're going have to support this statement because it's not as self-evident as you seem to think.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Mike Cernovich had to ban one his Nazi friends from an event because the dude wouldn't stop doing Nazi salutes and calling for genocide against Jews and that was attracting too much media attention.

https://twitter.com/bakedalaska/status/813550896147636224

And now the guy is so mad, lolololol.
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I'm going to regret this, but... ZOG? I'm going to guess Zionist [something] Government, but that's just 'cause it reminds me of COG, which is amusingly fascist.

ed: wow there is a LOT of anti-Semitism in the comments.

I am shocked, SHOCKED I say.
 
15731287_1011346842303741_774790986_n.png


plot twist
 
Poodlestrike said:
I'm going to regret this, but... ZOG? I'm going to guess Zionist [something] Government, but that's just 'cause it reminds me of COG, which is amusingly fascist.

ed: wow there is a LOT of anti-Semitism in the comments.

I am shocked, SHOCKED I say.
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Damn, got it in one.

Zionist Occupation Government or Zionist Occupied Government (abbreviated as ZOG) is an antisemitic conspiracy theory that holds that Jews secretly control a given country, while the formal government is a puppet regime.[1]

The expression is used by antisemitic groups such as white supremacists in the United States[2][3][4][5][6][7] and Europe,[8] ultra-nationalists such as Pamyat in Russia, and various far-right groups.

The word "Zionist" in "Zionist Occupation Government" should not be confused with the ideology of Zionism, the movement for support of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel. As the conspiracy theorists chiefly name countries outside that area, the usage of Zionist in this context is misleading, and intended to portray Jews as conspirators who aim to control the world,[2] as in the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[9]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory

"JQ" is Jewish Question.
 
Russia wants Trump to release their arms dealer who was selling weapons to communist terror organizations in South America.

The Kremlin will formally request that the United States extradite a convicted arms dealer back to Russia, the Izvestia newspaper reported Thursday.

The request will ask the U.S. government to allow Viktor Bout, convicted on terrorism-related charges, to serve out his 25-year sentence in Russia under the 1983 Strasbourg Convention.

Bout also plans to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court to have his sentence overturned after the inauguration of U.S. President-elect Donald Trump in January, Izvestia reported.

The Tajik-born arms dealer has previously pleaded for Trump to intervene in his case, which he claims is “politically motivated.”

Read more from The Moscow Times: How a diamond heist and Russian gun smuggling lead to Donald Trump.

"We would like to deal with the new administration,” Bout's wife Alla told the newspaper. “We shall see if there's any real basis to Trump's claims that he would like to improve ties with Russia,” she said.

Bout was arrested in Thailand in 2008 and extradited to the United States in a bitter legal battle. He was sentenced to 25 years in prison in 2015 for providing support to a foreign terrorist organization after trying to sell arms to Colombian FARC rebels.
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https://themoscowtimes.com/news/mos...rn-convicted-arms-dealer-bout-to-russia-56609

Trump is so tough on terror that he will.... Almost certainly give this guy to Russia and let him go back to his terrorist supporting ways.
 
I don't usually gripe about threads but what the hell happened in the OT political threads today. I wander in and out and it just gets worse and worse.
 
Wilsongt said:
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

The world was gloomy before I won - there was no hope. Now the market is up nearly 10% and Christmas spending is over a trillion dollars!
6:32 PM · Dec 26, 2016
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Leh sigh.

Neither of those have anything to do with you
 
Obama would have won, but not because of his skills as a campaigner. We've had years to see how Obama handles being directly and relentlessly attacked by a political opponent in the most personal of ways.

Hint hint: not very well.

Obama would have won because he didn't have the Clinton baggage and Traitor Comey likely wouldn't have gotten involved. Would have been a lot closer than Romney, though.
 
royalan said:
Obama would have won, but not because of his skills as a campaigner. We've had years to see how Obama handles being directly and relentlessly attacked by a political opponent in the most personal of ways.

Hint hint: not very well.

Obama would have won because he didn't have the Clinton baggage and Traitor Comey likely wouldn't have gotten involved. Would have been a lot closer than Romney, though.
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I think he would've won, but he would've done worse in the Midwest.
 
sphagnum said:
I don't usually gripe about threads but what the hell happened in the OT political threads today. I wander in and out and it just gets worse and worse.
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What happened is you have an ongoing fight between 4 groups:

1) People like me and most of PoliGAF who want the Democrats to recover by going back to Howard Dean's 50 state strategy and look at situations as political opportunities instead of just losses and wins.

2) So-called-progressives who seem to spend more time talking about what democrats they hate and how much they hate "identity politics" than actually looking into what works and what doesn't

3) Trump voters and Russian trolls that now feel emboldened by Trump winning to say ridiculous crap

4) Similar to group #1, but are kinda going to far on the other end of the spectrum by saying that we shouldn't try to win over ANY Trump voters and forget that average voters knew nothing about Hillary's policy proposals.
 
royalan said:
Obama would have won, but not because of his skills as a campaigner. We've had years to see how Obama handles being directly and relentlessly attacked by a political opponent in the most personal of ways.

Hint hint: not very well.

Obama would have won because he didn't have the Clinton baggage and Traitor Comey likely wouldn't have gotten involved. Would have been a lot closer than Romney, though.
Click to expand...

Obama has handled well with hasslers before.
 
royalan said:
Obama would have won, but not because of his skills as a campaigner. We've had years to see how Obama handles being directly and relentlessly attacked by a political opponent in the most personal of ways.

Hint hint: not very well.

Obama would have won because he didn't have the Clinton baggage and Traitor Comey likely wouldn't have gotten involved. Would have been a lot closer than Romney, though.
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Campaign Obama handled personal attacks very well. The problem was with Governing Obama, who tried too hard to compromise and reason with people. He'd have shrugged off Trump's stuff and looked good doing it.

Finalizer said:
He'll take credit for every positive development in the nation regardless of his involvement, and his supporters will eat it up. Reality has no part in the matter.
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Literally my one hope for 2018 and 2020 is that the opposite swing of that will help. Presidents get credit for every good thing that happens with the economy, but they also shoulder the blame for every bad thing. Trump has been largely immune to norms like that, but maybe once he's in office and the "outsider" sheen has faded from him people will start to react the way they normally do.
 
Finalizer said:
He'll take credit for every positive development in the nation regardless of his involvement, and his supporters will eat it up. Reality has no part in the matter.
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Considering an absurd amount of people in this country blame the president for literally everything, seems like business as usual.
 
royalan said:
Obama would have won, but not because of his skills as a campaigner. We've had years to see how Obama handles being directly and relentlessly attacked by a political opponent in the most personal of ways.

Hint hint: not very well.

Obama would have won because he didn't have the Clinton baggage and Traitor Comey likely wouldn't have gotten involved. Would have been a lot closer than Romney, though.
Click to expand...

Eh Obama would have easily won against Trump. The only areas that Obama would be weak against Trump are:

- Calling out Trump's love of Putin would look bad considering how he reacted to Romney rightly calling out Putin.
- Obamacare is an overall positive, but certain flaws of it have become apparent.
- Obama would be a proTPP candidate, which would hurt him among millenials.
 
Obama would have won WI, MI and PA and lost FL and NC.

Ohio and Iowa would be the real interesting cases. He probably still loses them but nowhere near as bad.
 
It'll be interesting to see Iowa in the future, since it clearly had a big shift but it also really hates Hillary, so it would be interesting to see how Obama or Bernie does there.
 
royalan said:
Obama would have won because he didn't have the Clinton baggage and Traitor Comey likely wouldn't have gotten involved. Would have been a lot closer than Romney, though.
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I find it hard to pin down. Obama oozes charisma, and I feel like he probably would've tried to pull a Romney 2.0, painting Trump as a liar whose all too happy to exploit Americans for profit and send money overseas.

Poodlestrike said:
Literally my one hope for 2018 and 2020 is that the opposite swing of that will help. Presidents get credit for every good thing that happens with the economy, but they also shoulder the blame for every bad thing. Trump has been largely immune to norms like that, but maybe once he's in office and the "outsider" sheen has faded from him people will start to react the way they normally do.
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Similar to how I feel. While its easy to despair right now and look at Trump voters as a whole of people willing to vote for Pure Evil, I still think that ultimately there's a bunch of folks voting for what they thought were their best interests (lolol economic anxiety etc) who will be more than happy to switch teams if Trump doesn't make magic happen. It almost makes me hope that the Republican congress takes a sledgehammer to Obamacare and Medicare just so a blue tidal wave can take things back.
 
Valhelm said:
Bernie lost by a hair before anybody knew who he was. This was the first serious sign of weakness in Hillary's campaign.
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He lost the state.

He spent plenty of time campaigning there. They knew who he was. He performed favorably in caucus environments in general, often winning them. He lost this caucus.

sphagnum said:
He barely lost and the general electorate is not the same as the Democratic primary base. We'd need more information to see how he would've fared against Trump.
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We did get more information. His favored candidates that he campaigned for flopped hard in the general. His policy initiatives that were put on the ballot got gobsmacked.
 
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