PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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pigeon said:
I'm so confused.
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not sure if this is what mets meant but a presidential candidate is obviously going to have more effect during the presidential election than House leadership

Pelosi is currently one for three on elections where a president is not on the ballot

Of course, presidents are still around in midterms so idk

I'm on Team "Pelosi can probably stick around a bit longer but we should really have someone not 100 years old ready to take her place"
 
The only evidence we have of how voters respond to the current GOP rule is a few special elections in red districts. Not saying we just sit around and say "hey, we're not Trump" and expect to win in 2018, but all this "America is going to be just like Kansas, voters will never punish the GOP for anything" talk that's been so prevalent lately is based on practically no evidence for America (and even then Democrats are consistently overperforming their districts) and misreading the evidence in Kansas.
 
MSNBC's new Moderate Darling Hugh Hewitt will likely give us all the answers we need. Maybe he can have a Moderate Darling round table with Sue Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Greta Van Susteren, and George Will where they all agree that

(1) the poor deserve to die but with dignity
(2) teachers don't need guns, only school security guards need guns
(3) factories should be prohibited from emitting methane but CO2 is okay because it's a weaker greenhouse gas
(4) Hillary's emails warrant a life sentence, not the death penalty

and everyone will praise them for being so moderate and bipartisan and reasonable, not like those extremists on #bothsides.
 
dakini said:
Has this been posted yet lol?



5MqdQnh.gif
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Lolz.

Canova is so wack...
 
Okay, So You Kick Nancy Pelosi Out. Then What?
Before you start calling for her exit, name some logical replacements.
I've seen Republican propaganda turn a decent centrist like Michael Dukakis into a signatory of the Port Huron statement. I've seen it turn a decorated war hero like John Kerry into a Francophone poltroon. I've seen it turn a radical centrist/Rockefeller Republican like Bill Clinton into a dope-smoking refugee from the Monterey Pop Festival. I've seen kindly old Tip O'Neill turned into a Thomas Nast cartoon, and I've seen Barack Obama turned into an Islamic Kenyan holy man.
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So you will pardon me if I'm dubious of the notion that congressional Democrats have to rid themselves of Nancy Pelosi because she was so easily demonized in that Georgia special election. If it wasn't her, it would have been somebody else.
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Most of the voices calling for her to go are coming from younger Democrats, a lot of them allied with the Berniecrat wing of the party. (Ironically, the Republicans ran ads tying Jon Ossoff to Sanders, that socialist menace. Plus ca change…) I am charmed to my bones by the faith these young folks have that Pelosi's replacement would be someone dedicated to single-payer healthcare, the $15 minimum wage, and hanging banksters from lamp posts. More than likely, it would be someone like, say, Tim Ryan from Ohio, who talks the salt-o'-the-earth talk about economic anxiety, but who flipped on abortion in 2015, when it became convenient to do so, and who won an NRA endorsement in his first campaign. This development would not be to their liking.
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If you want to make the case that the age of the Democratic congressional leadership makes the emergence of new faces more difficult, I'll listen to that argument, but leave Bernie Sanders out of it, because you sound like a fool.
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If you're proposing to replace Pelosi, prepare for the inevitable result. The pressure on the replacement—from Republicans, certainly, but also from the elite political media—to work "on a bipartisan basis" with the zombie-eyed granny starver and his band of cutthroats... is going to be well-nigh overwhelming. And that's not even to mention the both-siderist frenzy that will erupt during the fight to elect a new leader. Dems In Disarray is a Beltway classic. This would be its loudest revival performance in years.
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http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a55791/nancy-pelosi-replacement/
 
excelsiorlef said:
It's 100% oh fuck this guy is a conspiracy nut, time to ghost him lol.
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Pretty much. Bernie should have never threw any support at dude. Don't care how big of a hate boner he's got for DWS. Hard to really walk it back. And if you going to walk it back don't claim you don't know dude. He comes off terrible in this exchange.
 
Autodidact said:
Did he become an RA in a college dorm or something?
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The real reason is annoyingly awesome. He and his wife have been foster parents and they attended a CASA event today: https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/878080129578217472
Court Appointed Special Advocates (CASA) is a national association in the United States that supports and promotes court-appointed advocates for abused or neglected children in order to provide children with a safe and healthy environment in permanent homes.
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Really trying to hammer home the good guy image there.
 
GrapeApes said:
Pretty much. Bernie should have never threw any support at dude. Don't care how big of a hate boner he's got for DWS. Hard to really walk it back. And if you going to walk it back don't claim you don't know dude. He comes off terrible in this exchange.
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I wonder if Bernie has someone advising him on which loonies to disavow now.
 
nintendoman58 said:
Saw a post saying that the wall is next.

People on OT Political Thread GAF really are going insane now.
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Young people who hate Trump yet who are not really interested in or knowledgeable about politics (or at least weren't until last year), accustomed to sane Democratic leadership, get scared when they have to contend with batshit Republicans for really the first time. I wish they'd get some perspective, but I can see why they'd feel despondent.
 
Autodidact said:
This health care nonsense would be happening under any Republican president, as would the tax cuts. The wall will continue to be a nonstarter, the policy wish of a raving madman.
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More or less. The wall is a spending boondoggle and the congressional GOP doesn't really care about immigration, only as far as caring about it doesn't get them primaried like Cantor.
 
GrapeApes said:
Pretty much. Bernie should have never threw any support at dude. Don't care how big of a hate boner he's got for DWS. Hard to really walk it back. And if you going to walk it back don't claim you don't know dude. He comes off terrible in this exchange.
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It was pretty pathetic.


It was just another example for why I don't like Sanders despite liking a majority of his ideas.
 
Autodidact said:
Young people who hate Trump yet who are not really interested in or knowledgeable about politics (or at least weren't until last year), accustomed to sane Democratic leadership, get scared when they have to contend with batshit Republicans for really the first time. I wish they'd get some perspective, but I can see why they'd feel despondent.
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this is a quietly perfect post.
 
Box of Kittens said:
Certainly clearing the field for Clinton was a colossal mistake.
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Agreed. Though I kinda wish the field was cleared for Sanders instead. At least that way we'd have this "there are secretly millions of people that want single payer healthcare specifically and for the United States to become a socialist country" stuff cleared up, one way or the other. Having a true gauge on how popular single payer in particular really is on a national level would be nice so we can know if going with that or a public option is the better choice to get people on board, but alas...
 
The idea that Paul, Lee, and Johnson may be the ones to kill the bill, while Collins and Murkowski are seemingly just fine with the PP defunding provision and Portman and Capito have no reservations about their thousands of constituents who will lose Medicaid, is just... fucking insane.
 
Blader said:
The idea that Paul, Lee, and Johnson may be the ones to kill the bill, while Collins and Murkowski are seemingly just fine with the PP defunding provision and Portman and Capito have no reservations about their thousands of constituents who will lose Medicaid, is just... fucking insane.
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Moderate Darlings react very slowly; thoughtful and bipartisan, they take their time to consider a bill. If their evaluation matches the rest of the party's 99% of time time, well... haven't you heard of coincidences?

This whole process moved so quickly and just confused the poor dears.
 
royalan said:
lol
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I could only catch Hardball and Rachel Maddow tonight but there were elected Democrats on both calling out the AHCA and saying how shitty it is. So I have no idea what the point of this post was? Even if they weren't on whatever shows you saw tonight (if you saw any) that doesn't mean they weren't on any.
 
Crocodile said:
I could only catch Hardball and Rachel Maddow tonight but there were elected Democrats on both calling out the AHCA and saying how shitty it is. So I have no idea what the point of this post was? Even if they weren't on whatever shows you saw tonight (if you saw any) that doesn't mean they weren't on any.
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Are there a handful Democrats in the media right now calling out AHCA and Republicans? Of course. There always is.

Is there a loud, consistent, balls-to-the-wall, unified force of Democrats sounding the alarm on AHCA? A response the level of which the GOP seems to be capable of at the drop of a dime? The kind that you would expect to see to oppose legislation that is about to rob tens of millions of people of their health coverage?

lol
 
royalan said:
Are there a handful Democrats in the media right now calling out AHCA and Republicans? Of course. There always is.

Is there a loud, consistent, balls-to-the-wall, unified force of Democrats sounding the alarm on AHCA? A response the level of which the GOP seems to be capable of at the drop of a dime?

lol
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Literally all of them, (not literally) all the time.
 
royalan said:
Receipts? Because I haven't seen it.
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I'm not compiling links to every AHCA-related media appearance, floor appearance, interview, tweetstorm, stream, podcast, etc. of 40+ Senate Dems attacking this bill and the process around it over the past week.

In fact, I think I'll go to bed.
 
Blader said:
I'm not compiling links to every AHCA-related media appearance, floor appearance, interview, tweetstorm, stream, podcast, etc. of 40+ Senate Dems attacking this bill and the process around it over the past week.

In fact, I think I'll go to bed.
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Again, I'm a messaging dude. And for me there's a huge difference between "speaking out against" and "opposing" as silly as that sounds.

Yes, every Democrat who cares about their seat is speaking out against AHCA. But there's no unified language here. Democrats as a party still haven't figured out the tone and language of their opposition strategy. We still don't know how, as a party, to attack Trump and Republicans. Hell, just a few days ago Senate Dems were openly weighing whether or not to obstruct on the floor. Do you think that would ever be a question for Republicans if the shoe were on the other foot in this situation? No, Republicans would be out in full force using language so similar you'd wonder when they had time to pass out the memos.

As an opposition party, Democrats are still pretty weak.
 
royalan said:
Receipts? Because I haven't seen it.
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https://www.c-span.org/video/?430129-6/senators-cantwell-kaine-others-health-care

3 hours of Democrats controlling the Senate floor to shit on the AHCA and the process by which the Senate bill was being written a few days ago. Every single Democratic Senator in fact.

royalan said:
Again, I'm a messaging dude. And for me there's a huge difference between "speaking out against" and "opposing" as silly as that sounds.

Yes, every Democrat who cares about their seat is speaking out against AHCA. But there's no unified language here. Democrats as a party still haven't figured out the tone and language of their opposition strategy. We still don't know how, as a party, to attack Trump and Republicans. Hell, just a few days ago Senate Dems were openly weighing whether or not to obstruct on the floor. Do you think that would ever be a question for Republicans if the shoe were on the other foot in this situation? No, Republicans would be out in full force using language so similar you'd wonder when they had time to pass out the memos.

As an opposition party, Democrats are still pretty weak.
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On that, I don't disagree and made the point a few pages back that the party needs to put together an ACA repair and expand with a public option outline/bill and unify behind it as a messaging strategy. Something to contrast the dumpster fire the Republicans are passing. Just shitting on it isn't enough.

Republicans had a two page talking points sheet for the Senate bill within the hour of its release. Their surrogates are parroting those points endlessly. Democrats are arguing over Pelosi and getting recommended #standwithnancy talking points...
 
royalan said:
Again, I'm a messaging dude. And for me there's a huge difference between "speaking out against" and "opposing" as silly as that sounds.

Yes, every Democrat who cares about their seat is speaking out against AHCA. But there's no unified language here. Democrats as a party still haven't figured out the tone and language of their opposition strategy. We still don't know how, as a party, to attack Trump and Republicans. Hell, just a few days ago Senate Dems were openly weighing whether or not to obstruct on the floor. Do you think that would ever be a question for Republicans if the shoe were on the other foot in this situation? No, Republicans would be out in full force using language so similar you'd wonder when they had time to pass out the memos.

As an opposition party, Democrats are still pretty weak.
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It's pretty clear they don't have a Frank Luntz type to give out marching orders on language, but it's also a by-product of having a big tent.
 
royalan said:
Are there a handful Democrats in the media right now calling out AHCA and Republicans? Of course. There always is.

Is there a loud, consistent, balls-to-the-wall, unified force of Democrats sounding the alarm on AHCA? A response the level of which the GOP seems to be capable of at the drop of a dime? The kind that you would expect to see to oppose legislation that is about to rob tens of millions of people of their health coverage?

lol
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This is really silly. Like, I kinda get it when cartoon soldier and PBY do their thing even if I think they're wrong, but I really don't know how else to describe this post.

nintendoman58 said:
Saw a post saying that the wall is next.

People on OT Political Thread GAF really are going insane now.
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The wall quite literally will never happen. The GOP might pass a bill, don't get me wrong, but it will never get built (or likely even fully funded). They might get funding for one round of chain link, which will get snipped to pieces by protestors with wire cutters within the month. This is assuming they can put one up at all given the likelihood of constant lawsuits from blue states and border counties, stalling it out further.
 
royalan said:
I'm aware of this. Doesn't really change the point I made at all.
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See my edit.

...though your initial point was asking for receipts for a balls to wall concerted effort of Democrats sounding the alarm bell because you "hadn't seen it". Apparently you had, so why ask for receipts? Democrats are actively opposing this bill on a consistent basis. I just want their alternative to be front and center alongside the rightful coemnation of the Senate bill.
 
Futurevoid said:
Republicans had a two page talking points sheet for the Senate bill within the hour of its release. Their surrogates are parroting those points endlessly. Democrats are arguing over Pelosi and getting recommended #standwithnancy talking points...
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Though maybe some other democrats shouldn't be internalizing right wing talking points regarding her at such a crucial time?

As the minority leader, she would be in a better position to rally people on a message without people calling on her to step down.
 
Futurevoid said:
On that, I don't disagree and made the point a few pages back that the party needs to put together an ACA repair and expand with a public option outline/bill and unify behind it as a messaging strategy. Something to contrast the dumpster fire they are passing. Just shitting on it isn't enough.

Republicans had a two page talking points sheet for the Senate bill within the hour of its release. Their surrogates are parroting those points endlessly. Democrats are arguing over Pelosi and getting recommended #standwithnancy talking points...
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We're on the same page on this. I was arguing in a thread in OT that I think it's a wasted opportunity that Democrats don't seem to have an ACA 2.0 drafted as a rallying point. AHCA isn't about healthcare (it's about tax cuts) and we all know it. But Democrats leave open a pretty large window by not emphasizing the contrast between D and R at every opportunity.

B-Dubs said:
It's pretty clear they don't have a Frank Luntz type to give out marching orders on language, but it's also a by-product of having a big tent.
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In my fanfiction, Harry Reid would step into this role. ;__;

AntraxSuicide said:
This is really silly. Like, I kinda get it when cartoon soldier and PBY do their thing even if I think they're wrong, but I really don't know how else to describe this post.
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I mean, feel free to disagree. But there is a pretty tangible effect on the ground when Democrats aren't unified nationally.
 
Democrats should storm CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, AAA, AARP, BET, NBC, CBS, ABC, HBO, STARZ, and even the History Channel on the off chance that audience wants a break from Hitler documentaries. Because the general public really cares about politics, as evidenced by our astounding turnout, and would really tune in to this concerted assault on the airwaves. Maybe the puzzle on grandma's Wheel of Fortune can be "Medicare for All."
 
People need to stop judging the Democrats based on what they see on television and start judging television for being deliberately designed to promote conservative viewpoints and erase progressive viewpoints even on hypothetically progressive channels.
 
"Get rid of Pelosi! She's so old, we need young progressives with new ideas!"

Says Bernie supporters.
 
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