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[Gavin Stevens]

No, you're in denial. When both systems are given the same rendering targets, the difference in their performances remains constant even though the values of their performances change.

You don’t have much experience with game engines, do you? You’re talking the right things in the wrong places mate, sorry. And saying I’m in denial, that’s just insulting. You’re trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole here.

You have a set amount of texel pushing power per system, both of which are different, but there are other factors that can change the workload here and can increase or decrease performance based on several factors.

The SX is capable of more raw texel crunch, however, it’s a double edged sword as if you push too high in this area (for example increase resolution) you could run into Issues where you see a performance decrease, regardless of the fact you’re actually pushing higher resolution and producing a better image.

A somewhat similar issue gets seen often with the mid gen refresh cycle, most recently with RE3. It performs worse on the X over the Pro, and that’s all people focus on. But it’s actually rendering double the pixel data per frame, and as such the fillrate requirements double. This is why it runs into performance issues in particle heavy scenes, for example. They pushed too high, and the performance reflects that.

 

[rnlval]

First of all, the guy, who was interviewed, had his instagram and twitter feed full of Sony fanboy stuff. Nothing about Xbox.

And then lets have a look at his interview:



Sorry, but NO, PS3? This was a completely different scenario. You should not take PS3 into this discussion.
PS3 was a complete unique scenario, because of the huge cluster fuck called CELL.
PS5 is NOT like the PS3, also XSX is NOT like the PS3. It's ridiculous to compare PS3 to anything of those.
This is just bullshit, come on! WHY compare PS3 to XSX? SERIOUSLY?!

And XSX is using DX12 ULTIMATE:
Microsoft’s DirectX 12 Ultimate unifies graphics tech for PC gaming and Xbox Series X
Bringing a suite of software advancements in gaming graphics onto a single platform

Microsoft’s DirectX 12 Ultimate unifies graphics tech for PC gaming and Xbox Series X

A single platform for supporting ray tracing and other next-gen graphics tech.

www.theverge.com

WHY would it be easier to develop a game for a single platform (PS5) vs PC+XSX?



What the fuck is he talking about? What is this fanboy crap? XSX is not running Win10 OS, what is he talking about? Whats next? Windows 10 malware will destroy your XSX? Lol



OK, this is absolutely bullshit. 1st party devs saying this marketing crap, so what? Extremely simple? Really? That's why PS5 is using variable frequencies and devs even have to rewrite their engines to optimise for the PS5, according to Cerny:



Super easy! Just create a new engine just for the unique PS5 architecture. Simple, right?

Again, what has this to do with anything? And only because 1st party devs say that it’s „THE BETTER CONSOLE“ really? This is 100% fanboy crap! come on!



Again, bullshit. XSX is still using a unified memory system, it's NOT even remotely like Xbox One, XSX does not use „ESRAM“, this is just bullshit! It's the same as any PC

This is how it works:




Again, bullshit. DF actually tested similar graphic cards on PC, where we had one overclocked GPU vs. a non-overclocked GPU, they showed that 10 TF from 36 compute units leads to less performance than 10 TF from 40 compute units. Xbox has 12 TF from 52 compute units.

And its actually the other way around. XSX has FIXED clocks, it can sustain 100% cpu/gpu at all the time, during every condition:

Once again, Microsoft stresses the point that frequencies are consistent on all machines, in all environments. There are no boost clocks with Xbox Series X.

Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs

whereas PS5 can NOT:

Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core.

Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-the-mark-cerny-tech-deep-dive

So again, what is this fanboy crap? Seriously! How is PS5s way of doing this a better way?



What? Now xbox is more powerful? lol
Again, why bring PS3 in here? XSX is NOT PS3. XSX does not have CELL.



What? Both consoles have a very similar architecture, both are based on RDNA 2.0, both CPU/GPU are from AMD. How can we NOT compare? We absolutely CAN compare!
It's not like Xbox 360 vs PS3, where we had two different architectures, but now we HAVE!


What? Again XSX is not using Windows 10 OS? What is he talking about? And Sony has better Software? What? How so? What kind of software is he talking about? Operating System? Or what?





This is some nextgen level spinning…. FREEDOM?!?!? practical FREEDOM?!?!

„Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core."

GREAT freedom! devs HAVE TO throttle back CPU to sustain GPU! Fantastic freedom!

On XBOX series x devs don't have to worry, get max for both, easy:

Once again, Microsoft stresses the point that frequencies are consistent on all machines, in all environments. There are no boost clocks with Xbox Series X.

but this is a BAD thing? what the actual fuck?

There is many more of this crap in this interview, but I think this is enough. No wonder they pulled it, this is embarrassing.

Crytek dev's PS3 argument into next-generation consoles amounts to Sony's cool-aid.

 

[ethomaz]

Sapphire Radeon RX 5600 XT Pulse Review

Sapphire's RX 5600 XT Pulse comes at $289, which is only a small $10 premium over the AMD MSRP, yet it's faster than the GeForce RTX 2060. The card's cooler does a great job and delivers good temperatures paired with amazing noise levels, and it has fan-stop, too.

www.techpowerup.com

For recent driver updates

RTX 2080 Ti vs RTX 2070 Super at 3840 x 2160 resolution

185 / 133 = 39% difference.

--

The difference is smaller with 2560 x 1440 resolution

RTX 2080 Ti vs RTX 2070 Super at 2560 x 1440 resolution

174 / 131 = 32‬% difference. <---- bottleneck

The reason for larger GPUs is for robust 4K performance.


Notice the memory bandwidth difference between RTX 2080 Ti's 616 GB/s vs RTX 2070 Super's 464 GB/.s

616/ 464 = 1.327 or 32.7%

At 4K resolution, RTX 2080 Ti's higher TFLOPS over RTX 2070 Super has a higher gain when compared to memory bandwidth related 32% gain.


RTX 2080 Ti continues to scale when somebody replaced GDDR-14000 chips with GDDR6-15500 chips from two RTX 2080 Super cards.

NVIDIA is reserving RTX 2080 Ti Super edition when there's no competition from AMD.

Some RTX 2080 Ti with Samsung GDDR6-14000 chips can memory overclock into GDDR6-15000 range.

The next stop is GDDR6-16000+ rated chips.

Yeap the 2080TI have a better lead in higher resolutions due the RAM speeds.
2070 should descresse that % if it can reach theses RAM speeds.

 

[ethomaz]

First of all, the guy, who was interviewed, had his instagram and twitter feed full of Sony fanboy stuff. Nothing about Xbox.

That is not true.

He has tweets about buying an Xbox One X, preferring to play games on it over PC, etc.

He has tweets saying he doesn’t have a PS4 and had to rely to Cafe to okay Jorney that he loved. The other tweets are about his Job where he worked in the PS4 version of Hunt do he felt proud when CryTek received the box of the PS4 version from Sony.

So that false narrative is funny just because what he said in the interview.

 

[Gediminas]

lol sure they are, any proof of these bribes.

Of course not, more tales from peoples asses.

for exp like this? A Federal Trade Commission investigation uncovered an undisclosed paid endorsement deal between Microsoft Studios and Machinima Inc. Microsoft Studios paid for fake organic reviews, and bound Machinima Inc. to "not portray [Microsoft], the Xbox One, or the Launch Titles in a negative manner". Ryse: Son of Rome was specifically listed in the FTC document as being one of the titles to receive fake reviews, and price quotes for these reviews range between $15,000 and $30,000.

2

He' a rendering engineer at crytek. What's your credentials?

his credentials are : delusional downplayer and a weeper

 

[Journey]

To be fair that's a 40% gap on a 1080p display, also ghosts was particularly bad because it wasn't optimized for the esram setup halving resolution to 720p creating a artificial 2x gap
Won't see anywhere close to that on a 17-21% gap let alone at higher resolutions ~4k approximates

I find it interesting how leading up to the console reveals, everyone was focusing on TERAFLOPS DON'T MATTER, it doesn't paint the full picture, we have to look at other factors...

Well, we now know that even though both PS5 and Xbox Series X GPU are "Based" on RDNA 2, that doesn't necessarily mean they both contain every feature. Right now only Xbox Series X supports Variable Rate Shading, one of RDNA 2 features that Sony has failed to confirm the PS5 supports, we have seen upwards to 20% increase in performance on real world tests when using it, and that's on PC, that figure will likely go up when working on a closed environment like a console. We also need to consider what difference they will have when Ray Tracing is applied.

Yesterday: We cannot judge consoles by their teraflop figure anymore
Today: It's only a 21% gap in teraflop performance

Which one is it?

 

[BluRayHiDef]

You don’t have much experience with game engines, do you? You’re talking the right things in the wrong places mate, sorry. And saying I’m in denial, that’s just insulting. You’re trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole here.

You have a set amount of texel pushing power per system, both of which are different, but there are other factors that can change the workload here and can increase or decrease performance based on several factors.

The SX is capable of more raw texel crunch, however, it’s a double edged sword as if you push too high in this area (for example increase resolution) you could run into Issues where you see a performance decrease, regardless of the fact you’re actually pushing higher resolution and producing a better image.

A somewhat similar issue gets seen often with the mid gen refresh cycle, most recently with RE3. It performs worse on the X over the Pro, and that’s all people focus on. But it’s actually rendering double the pixel data per frame, and as such the fillrate requirements double. This is why it runs into performance issues in particle heavy scenes, for example. They pushed too high, and the performance reflects that.

The logic - or lack thereof - of your argument renders any and all comparisons between the two systems as invalid, because any comparison can be criticized with the argument that real-world scenarios and variables cannot be accounted for in any comparison. However, computer systems are compared all the time, so your argument is actually what's invalid.

The difference in the performances of the Xbox One X and the PlayStation 4 Pro in regard to rendering Resident Evil 3 is not a counterexample to my argument, because both systems have - as you said - different rendering targets for that game; my argument was that the difference in the performances of the XSX and the PS5 remains constant when they have the same rendering targets.

 

[Gediminas]

That is not true.

He has tweets about buying an Xbox One X, preferring to play games on it over PC, etc.

He has tweets saying he doesn’t have a PS4 and had to rely to Cafe to okay Jorney that he loved. The other tweets are about his Job where he worked in the PS4 version of Hunt do he felt proud when CryTek received the box of the PS4 version from Sony.

So that false narrative is funny just because what he said in the interview.

you somehow have to downplay what he said. f.exp lie while doing that is perfectly normal for these people, because they have to stay on the script.

 

[rnlval]

Yeap the 2080TI have a better lead in higher resolutions due the RAM speeds.
2070 should descresse that % if it can reach theses RAM speeds.

ASUS GeForce RTX 2070 STRIX OC 8 GB Review

The ASUS GeForce RTX 2070 STRIX OC is a custom-design variant using a large triple-slot cooler that delivers excellent temperatures or very low noise levels because of the inclusion of a dual-BIOS feature, which offers a "quiet" mode. ASUS has also upgraded the power delivery capability of their...

www.techpowerup.com

ASUS GeForce RTX 2070 STRIX manual overlocked to 2040 Mhz core (9.4 TFLOPS) and 1990 Mhz mclk (509 GB/s) is still inferior reference RTX 2080.

TU104 is six GPCs wide vs TU106's three GPC wide i.e. TU104 is a different GPU class from TU106.

It would be silly for AMD to not scale 56 CU RDNA 2's front-end when X1X GPU has semi-custom DirectX12 micro-engine hardware decoder and 1 MB command cache.

There are not enough details from MS's side on XSX's full 56 CU scale** RDNA 2 GPU. Atm, MS has hints like XSX's Gears 5 scaling to RTX 2080 like solution.

**52 active CU with four CU disabled.

 

[jts]

That is not true.

He has tweets about buying an Xbox One X, preferring to play games on it over PC, etc.

He has tweets saying he doesn’t have a PS4 and had to rely to Cafe to okay Jorney that he loved. The other tweets are about his Job where he worked in the PS4 version of Hunt do he felt proud when CryTek received the box of the PS4 version from Sony.

So that false narrative is funny just because what he said in the interview.

Strange to post about his own, his love, his precious birthday gift being a PS4 game 4 years ago when he doesn’t even have a PS4

 

[ethomaz]

Strange to post about his own, his love, his precious birthday gift being a PS4 game 4 years ago when he doesn’t even have a PS4

He played Journey in a Cafe (Aug 2017).


He doesn't have a PS4 (Oct 2019).


He indeed brought an Xbox One X after many years without playing games (Sep 2019).
Ohhhh he has Gamepass sub.


He prefer to play games on Xbox than PC (Nov 2019).

 

[Gavin Stevens]

The logic - or lack thereof - of your argument renders any and all comparisons between the two systems as invalid, because any comparison can be criticized with the argument that real-world scenarios and variables cannot be accounted for in any comparison. However, computer systems are compared all the time, so your argument is actually what's invalid.

The difference in the performances of the Xbox One X and the PlayStation 4 Pro in regard to rendering Resident Evil 3 is not a counterexample to my argument, because both systems have - as you said - different rendering targets for that game; my argument was that the difference in the performances of the XSX and the PS5 two remains constant when they have the same rendering targets.

If the two systems display the same game with the same settings at the same resolutions, then the system that has a higher texel fillrate power will win with regard to fillrate. If you cap your rate to the same cap, it doesn’t matter if one has 80 and the other hits 65, it will still cap at 60. With variable rates, that gap won’t be felt.

There is no special science to this.

However, it will create an overhead, and as such that will be exploited. If you hit your base target resolution with a lot of room to spare chances are you will push other areas.

This is why you can’t just base this stuff on a single metric. That gap may only be 5%, 10%, 25% etc... You will always try and exploit that. And if you can push visuals, the resolution can be dropped slightly to increase performance, and keep parity in other areas. So we are back to the SX pushing higher resolutions with slightly higher settings, with performance on par with PS5 pushing slightly lower res with lower detail.

Everything works in conjunction with each other, and it’s this reason alone the SSD in the ps5 won’t do much of anything outside of first party.

 

[jts]

He played Journey in a Cafe (Aug 2017).


He doesn't have a PS4 (Oct 2019).


He indeed brought an Xbox One X after many years without playing games (Sep 2019).
Ohhhh he has Gamepass sub.


He prefer to play games on Xbox than PC (Nov 2019).

Right. He prefers playing Xbox over PC which has nothing to do with anything at stake here. But you can’t address my actual post right? And all the other posts he has with PlayStation games, not necessarily the 4, which you will say they are lies even though they exist because of your agenda

Hell you even show a post where he posts a video of crying for not having a PS4 at the moment. It is clear he had one at some point before.

 

[FranXico]

All I know is plenty of people here take executives PR speak as pearls of wisdom and the opinions of experts, journalists and developers seriously, even when they are known to be or even openly Xbox (or Microsoft) fanboys. When those people praise the XSX and shit on the PS5, we should assume that fanboyism absolutely does not cloud their judgement and listen to them. Ignore their mistakes, even.

Now a developer who happens to be a PS fanboy says he likes the idea of developing on the PS5 (even while mentioning advantages of the Xbox in passing), but because of his bias, everything he says is now bullshit.

Amazing. I'm going to assume it's COVID-19 quarantine stress bringing out the worst in people.

 

[ethomaz]

Right. He prefers playing Xbox over PC which has nothing to do with anything at stake here. But you can’t address my actual post right? And all the other posts he has with PlayStation games, not necessarily the 4, which you will say they are lies even though they exist because of your agenda

Hell you even show a post where he posts a video of crying for not having a PS4 at the moment. It is clear he had one at some point before.

I addressed it... he doesn't have a PS4.
And I looked his Instagram... there is only that Uncharted 4 gift he received.
The other PS4 game cover he posted is about the CryTek copy of the game he worked.

He owns and play games on Xbox One X... he has Gamepass sub.

Do you believe a PS fanbody like you said choose to buy and play games on Xbox One X instead PS4? That is nonsense.
Your agenda thinks he is a PS fanbody when he is not.

So that false narrative is funny just because what he said in the interview.

 

[pawel86ck]

I find it interesting how leading up to the console reveals, everyone was focusing on TERAFLOPS DON'T MATTER, it doesn't paint the full picture, we have to look at other factors...

Well, we now know that even though both PS5 and Xbox Series X GPU are "Based" on RDNA 2, that doesn't necessarily mean they both contain every feature. Right now only Xbox Series X supports Variable Rate Shading, one of RDNA 2 features that Sony has failed to confirm the PS5 supports, we have seen upwards to 20% increase in performance on real world tests when using it, and that's on PC, that figure will likely go up when working on a closed environment like a console. We also need to consider what difference they will have when Ray Tracing

3dmark shows 75% performance boost thanks to VRS on 2070S, so there's a big potential in VRS for sure.

 

[SonGoku]

I find it interesting how leading up to the console reveals, everyone was focusing on TERAFLOPS DON'T MATTER, it doesn't paint the full picture, we have to look at other factors...

Well now you are talking to me specifically and i never made either argument, I'd appreciate it if you laid off the straw-man

Well, we now know that even though both PS5 and Xbox Series X GPU are "Based" on RDNA 2, that doesn't necessarily mean they both contain every feature. Right now only Xbox Series X supports Variable Rate Shading, one of RDNA 2 features that Sony has failed to confirm the PS5 supports, we have seen upwards to 20% increase in performance on real world tests when using it, and that's on PC, that figure will likely go up when working on a closed environment like a console. We also need to consider what difference they will have when Ray Tracing is applied.

You shouldn't use lack of full disclosure as the basis to your claim/assumption a feature is missing even more so a basic RDNA2 feature. Sony simply hasn't discussed its GPU capabilities, they focused on explaining the key pillars to their strategy: variable frequency, SSD and audio.

If VRS has such a significant impact on performance on what reality do you see Sony being like "Yo AMD see that RDNA2 feature that frees up 20%+ GPU resources, get rid of it we don't want any performance handouts"

 

[MadchesterManc]

I'm surprised folk here are putting forward the notion that a locked GPU clock means the theoretical TF limit of the console is always attainable without having to actually fully utilise the CU's to hit that compute number, or that x86 means ease of development to hit that TF number too even though it's a CPU instruction set and not a GPU ISA.

This thread is still fun to read

 

[jts]

I addressed it... he doesn't have a PS4.
And I looked his Instagram... there is only that Uncharted 4 gift he received.
The other PS4 game cover he posted is about the CryTek copy of the game he worked.

He owns and play games on Xbox One X... he has Gamepass sub.

Do you believe a PS fanbody like you said choose to buy and play games on Xbox One X instead PS4? That is nonsense.
Your agenda thinks he is a PS fanbody when he is not.

So that false narrative is funny just because what he said in the interview.

We don’t know his life circumstances and for what reason he stopped having a PS4, which clearly he expresses himself to be sad about. We do know that he posted a picture of Uncharted 4 with the comment “my own, my precious, my love #bestbirthdaygiftever” in 2016 and other playstation games before and after, so it is funny that you deny that he demonstrates a clear passion for PlayStation.

Which, to be clear, it is perfectly FINE to have. It’s just that shows up too much in the fan translated interview he gave to his local outlet, that’s all.

 

[Panajev2001a]

All I know is plenty of people here take executives PR speak as pearls of wisdom and the opinions of experts, journalists and developers seriously, even when they are known to be or even openly Xbox (or Microsoft) fanboys. When those people praise the XSX and shit on the PS5, we should assume that fanboyism absolutely does not cloud their judgement and listen to them. Ignore their mistakes, even.

Now a developer who happens to be a PS fanboy says he likes the idea of developing on the PS5 (even while mentioning advantages of the Xbox in passing), but because of his bias, everything he says is now bullshit.

Amazing. I'm going to assume it's COVID-19 quarantine stress bringing out the worst in people.

The best thing is that the fact that this dev is a PS Fanboy is likely also made up and surely overstated .

 

[BluRayHiDef]

If the two systems display the same game with the same settings at the same resolutions, then the system that has a higher texel fillrate power will win with regard to fillrate. If you cap your rate to the same cap, it doesn’t matter if one has 80 and the other hits 65, it will still cap at 60. With variable rates, that gap won’t be felt.

There is no special science to this.

However, it will create an overhead, and as such that will be exploited. If you hit your base target resolution with a lot of room to spare chances are you will push other areas.

This is why you can’t just base this stuff on a single metric. That gap may only be 5%, 10%, 25% etc... You will always try and exploit that. And if you can push visuals, the resolution can be dropped slightly to increase performance, and keep parity in other areas. So we are back to the SX pushing higher resolutions with slightly higher settings, with performance on par with PS5 pushing slightly lower res with lower detail.

Everything works in conjunction with each other, and it’s this reason alone the SSD in the ps5 won’t do much of anything outside of first party.

None of this contradicts my calculations and the intention behind them, which was to show the raw difference in the performances of the two systems according to their specifications - not according to specific conditions that prevent one of them or both of them from performing at their peaks.

If both of them have the same render targets and those targets are not below the peak fill rate of the XSX, the PS5's fill rate would be 84% of XSX's. This was the point of my calculations

 

[ethomaz]

We don’t know his life circumstances and for what reason he stopped having a PS4, which clearly he expresses himself to be sad about. We do know that he posted a picture of Uncharted 4 with the comment “my own, my precious, my love #bestbirthdaygiftever” in 2016 and other playstation games before and after, so it is funny that you deny that he demonstrates a clear passion for PlayStation.

Which, to be clear, it is perfectly FINE to have. It’s just that shows up too much in the fan translated interview he gave to his local outlet, that’s all.

Yeap he is so love with PlayStation that brought a Xbox
Biased minds are awesome to hear the logic.

 

[thelastword]

Again. 7 years ago. Xbox supposedly had the same type of special sauce, and here we are.

No one is talking about secret sauce, "things we don't see, normally only theorized"....We are talking about actual hardware on the PS5's mainboard.....The Geometry Engine, the cache scrubbers, the coherency units, the expensive DMAC with 12 gates, the 5.5GB/s SSD, the tempest engine's SPU and much more are all real and tangible......No one is talking about any external server boosting PS5's 10.3TF over 3080Ti's, there is no talk here about unlimited power and the highest quality pixels you've ever seen.....One was Koolaid served without ICE, one is a discussion about actual hardware....

Yup, it's 2013 all over again but in full reverse. MS was promising unlimited power of the cloud, they even made a CD3 demo with massive destruction going on, giving people false hope. Sony on the other hand has yet to show at least a fake tech-demo that tries to prove the SSD will do something else than shorten the loading times.

Yes the SSD will do something other than boost loadtimes, it's not just Sony saying that, but the devs themselves....Better textures, more varied textures, no stutters in openworld games, much quicker feed off disk to the GPU/MEM/CPU....

Yes, the promise of the power of the cloud, an online only dependent supplement introduced by MS with limited details on how it could be integrated with their SDK for third parties, is the exact same as the local hardware for PS5 having an 100%+ advantage I/O throughput & similar to devs opinions on the advantages of a higher clocked GPU (also local hardware).

2013 scarred some people for life. This is going to be a tough generation for them.

Some of these XBOX fans were IV'd to power of the cloud justifications, yet they are so pessimistic towards real hardware silicon on PS5 which are placed there to reduce bottlenecks and the amount of bandwidth used at runtime......It's all consolidated on the console's mainboard, yet they class it as "power of the cloud secret sauce talk, which they used in 2013?", Just downright silly..

I think the xsx will have an advantage in fighting games where no dynamic loading is happening, beyond the slower initial loading time once everything is loaded it could compute faster.

But who am I to know all this?

I don't think so, quick transitions, zoom ins for supers, better textures upclose, spending all of the budget on the stage and the onstage characters will be more impressive and performant on PS5 architecture.....They will load faster and transition better on the console with the faster subsystems...

Crytek's reputation in PC gaming sector is already in negative territory and Crytek has a history bashing gaming PCs.

My response to Ali Salehi's dishing DirectX is fukoff Crytek.

I doubt the guy was fired. I see nothing controversial in what he said, he praised both sides for their particular strengths, but just echoed what many of us have concluded since we've been looking at the design and spec differences between the consoles, it's definitely not apples to apples here.....And anybody who made said observations and had the insight to make those distinctions between the two, way before this interview, should be commended tbf …...Yet I find, that Cerny was pretty clear in his deliberations of the console (PS5) and what his vision was for it, so seeing so many devs echoing substantiations of his design's success in the dev world is not surprising in the least bit, As he said he actually spoke to devs at length and he himself s a dev.....I don't know why so many XBOX fans believe they can outmatch Cerny in intelligence or in console design.....Sometimes I wish MS gave Dynamite Cop the reigns as XBOX's chief engineer.....That'd be something I'd love to see him take head on...…..Sigh, maybe the next box.....

Also, if this guy does get fired, it will be because of the widespread kiss of the fatal "butthurting syndrome" as opposed to anything else....In all seriousness, I think it would have more to do with him tearing Windows and DX12 a new asshole, as opposed to his candid take on which console he prefers as a dev....Windows and DX12 spans moreover than consoles and Crytek has been a PC dev and Engine developer way before they attempted foraging on consoles...

 

[Vasto]

So did this turn out to be true or false?

 

[megreotsugua]

So did this turn out to be true or false?

He is a rendering engineer at Crytek who bought an Xbone X and subscribed to gamepass. What do you think?

 

[DaMonsta]

No one is talking about secret sauce, "things we don't see, normally only theorized"....We are talking about actual hardware on the PS5's mainboard.....The Geometry Engine, the cache scrubbers, the coherency units, the expensive DMAC with 12 gates, the 5.5GB/s SSD, the tempest engine's SPU and much more are all real and tangible......No one is talking about any external server boosting PS5's 10.3TF over 3080Ti's, there is no talk here about unlimited power and the highest quality pixels you've ever seen.....One was Koolaid served without ICE, one is a discussion about actual hardware....

Again back then it was supposedly custom hardware, with similar buzzword names that was to close the gap.

There are Literally verbatim posts from back then making the same types of claims.

 

[rnlval]

No one is talking about secret sauce, "things we don't see, normally only theorized"....We are talking about actual hardware on the PS5's mainboard.....The Geometry Engine, the cache scrubbers, the coherency units, the expensive DMAC with 12 gates, the 5.5GB/s SSD, the tempest engine's SPU and much more are all real and tangible......No one is talking about any external server boosting PS5's 10.3TF over 3080Ti's, there is no talk here about unlimited power and the highest quality pixels you've ever seen.....One was Koolaid served without ICE, one is a discussion about actual hardware....
Yes the SSD will do something other than boost loadtimes, it's not just Sony saying that, but the devs themselves....Better textures, more varied textures, no stutters in openworld games, much quicker feed off disk to the GPU/MEM/CPU....


Some of these XBOX fans were IV'd to power of the cloud justifications, yet they are so pessimistic towards real hardware silicon on PS5 which are placed there to reduce bottlenecks and the amount of bandwidth used at runtime......It's all consolidated on the console's mainboard, yet they class it as "power of the cloud secret sauce talk, which they used in 2013?", Just downright silly..


I don't think so, quick transitions, zoom ins for supers, better textures upclose, spending all of the budget on the stage and the onstage characters will be more impressive and performant on PS5 architecture.....They will load faster and transition better on the console with the faster subsystems...


I doubt the guy was fired. I see nothing controversial in what he said, he praised both sides for their particular strengths, but just echoed what many of us have concluded since we've been looking at the design and spec differences between the consoles, it's definitely not apples to apples here.....And anybody who made said observations and had the insight to make those distinctions between the two, way before this interview, should be commended tbf …...Yet I find, that Cerny was pretty clear in his deliberations of the console (PS5) and what his vision was for it, so seeing so many devs echoing substantiations of his design's success in the dev world is not surprising in the least bit, As he said he actually spoke to devs at length and he himself s a dev.....I don't know why so many XBOX fans believe they can outmatch Cerny in intelligence or in console design.....Sometimes I wish MS gave Dynamite Cop the reigns as XBOX's chief engineer.....That'd be something I'd love to see him take head on...…..Sigh, maybe the next box.....

Also, if this guy does get fired, it will be because of the widespread kiss of the fatal "butthurting syndrome" as opposed to anything else....In all seriousness, I think it would have more to do with him tearing Windows and DX12 a new asshole, as opposed to his candid take on which console he prefers as a dev....Windows and DX12 spans moreover than consoles and Crytek has been a PC dev and Engine developer way before they attempted foraging on consoles...

Crytek has been bashing Windows PC since its move to X360 and PS3 consoles.

 

[sircaw]

So did this turn out to be true or false?

I believe there is some truth to it.

Looking at who he is, his credentials as a engineer and also the fact he owns an xbox makes me believe it.

If he was just a ps4 fan boy, fair enough, but he is not.

 

[azz0r]

Why did I read this in Bruce Buffers voice:

ITSSSSSSSSSSS TIMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

"Introducing first FIGHTINGGGG out of the green corner, from the United States of America from MS world wide, holding a record of zero wins and three losses, boasting at 13 TERAFLOPS the CHALLENNNNGERRRRRR, XBOX "Ive got a plan" SERIESSSSSS XXXXXXXXXXXX"

"Now introducing the champion, FIGHTINGGGGG out of the blue corner. Reigning from Tokyo, Japan. Holding a console record of four wins and zero losses. Holding the fastest SSD at this time. THE REIGNING, DEFENDINGGGG, UNDISPUTEDDDDDDD KING OF CONSOLES, The SONNNYYYY "I've got 5 on it" Playstationnnnnnn FIVVVVVEEEEEEEEEE!

 

[rnlval]

I doubt the guy was fired. I see nothing controversial in what he said, he praised both sides for their particular strengths, but just echoed what many of us have concluded since we've been looking at the design and spec differences between the consoles, it's definitely not apples to apples here.....And anybody who made said observations and had the insight to make those distinctions between the two, way before this interview, should be commended tbf …...Yet I find, that Cerny was pretty clear in his deliberations of the console (PS5) and what his vision was for it, so seeing so many devs echoing substantiations of his design's success in the dev world is not surprising in the least bit, As he said he actually spoke to devs at length and he himself s a dev.....I don't know why so many XBOX fans believe they can outmatch Cerny in intelligence or in console design.....Sometimes I wish MS gave Dynamite Cop the reigns as XBOX's chief engineer.....That'd be something I'd love to see him take head on...…..Sigh, maybe the next box.....

Also, if this guy does get fired, it will be because of the widespread kiss of the fatal "butthurting syndrome" as opposed to anything else....In all seriousness, I think it would have more to do with him tearing Windows and DX12 a new asshole, as opposed to his candid take on which console he prefers as a dev....Windows and DX12 spans moreover than consoles and Crytek has been a PC dev and Engine developer way before they attempted foraging on consoles...

1. XB fans hyping DIrectX12 was bad enough when PS fans cows do the same thing are hypocrites.

2. Cerny's "SuperCharge PC" was BS. I purchased R9-290X + Haswell Core i7 which obliterated "Supercharge PC" PS4 in the same 2013 year.

 

[onQ123]

I'm surprised folk here are putting forward the notion that a locked GPU clock means the theoretical TF limit of the console is always attainable without having to actually fully utilise the CU's to hit that compute number, or that x86 means ease of development to hit that TF number too even though it's a CPU instruction set and not a GPU ISA.

This thread is still fun to read

But they ignore that one of these consoles is going out of their way to improve data management & act as if it can't help because the GPU is already reaching it's peak performance.

 

[darkestdame]

Holy shit the way Xbox fans reacted to this news was both hilarious & sad.

 

[KingT731]

PUBG and PSO2 come to mind. Thinking ms didnt pay for PSO2 on a console thats dead everywhere outside murica.

This especially when PSO2 is on the PS4 already(t's just the IP locked Japanese version) and the game has a version in English (Southeast Asian version published by Asiasoft).

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Insomniac and Marvel, yeah. Especially Marvel.

I have no idea how they talked Price into selling out though. Guess he had a price LOL.

There definitely was a deal and the bottom line mattered. Bribes, as I call them, are part of business. Why are people acting as if this is controversial? And it sucks for consumers, every time, but it's part of business.

Incorrect, actually. Marvel approached Sony, Sony then approached Insomniac.

Cuphead is different, the game was being made wholly independently until MS stepped in offering cash in exchange for Publishing exclusivity. I'm sure there's a Sony counterpart to that, though I can't think of it off the top of my head. But Spider-Man is not that.

 

[Shakka43]

I would tell some of you guys to get out more but...



Stay safe.

 

[Dory16]

Incorrect, actually. Marvel approached Sony, Sony then approached Insomniac.

Cuphead is different, the game was being made wholly independently until MS stepped in offering cash in exchange for Publishing exclusivity. I'm sure there's a Sony counterpart to that, though I can't think of it off the top of my head. But Spider-Man is not that.

So Cuphead's development was going perfectly well and the developers were just chilling when MS knocked on the door to "force" them to take their money at gunpoint. If it wasn't for MS the game would have been just as good or better and finished sooner.

 

[Leyasu]

@Mods, the tweets are gone, therefore anything to discuss has gone no? Perhaps the thread should be locked so as not to descend further into chaos...

 

[Journey]

The logic - or lack thereof - of your argument renders any and all comparisons between the two systems as invalid, because any comparison can be criticized with the argument that real-world scenarios and variables cannot be accounted for in any comparison. However, computer systems are compared all the time, so your argument is actually what's invalid.

The difference in the performances of the Xbox One X and the PlayStation 4 Pro in regard to rendering Resident Evil 3 is not a counterexample to my argument, because both systems have - as you said - different rendering targets for that game; my argument was that the difference in the performances of the XSX and the PS5 remains constant when they have the same rendering targets.

PC, PS4, Xbox One and Nintendo Switch have their respective rendering targets for The Witcher 3

 

[sircaw]

@Mods, the tweets are gone, therefore anything to discuss has gone no? Perhaps the thread should be locked so as not to descend further into chaos...

If you have no interest in the thread, just don't open it.
There are a lot of ps4 fans who enjoy discussing the article.
The only people who would not like this thread would be xbox fanboys.

I hope your not one of those.

 

[Leyasu]

If you have no interest in the thread, just don't open it.
There are a lot of ps4 fans who enjoy discussing the article.
The only people who would not like this thread would be xbox fanboys.

I hope your not one of those.

Leave it out. The substance of it all is very questionable. Not only that, I feel the whole meaning of it has been taken out of context and blown to large proportions.

So what if the PS5 is easier to get to grips short term than the XSX. As no console has ever been maxed with its first or second round of software, it doesn't really matter.

These consoles are not going to really start shining until 2022 at the earliest. Everyone that is not in their first console cycle already knows this. Using it as some sort sort one up or getting upset over it is not needed.

 

[hyperbertha]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone here wrote a biography on Ali Salehi.

 

[jts]

Yeap he is so love with PlayStation that brought a Xbox
Biased minds are awesome to hear the logic.

What? You must be lost really deep in the fanboyism abyss if you think a fan of one console can’t buy another console.

With that line of thought the only conclusion is that fanboys are only broke dudes that can only buy that one system and that will make them defend it to hell.

 

[FranXico]

Incorrect, actually. Marvel approached Sony, Sony then approached Insomniac.

Cuphead is different, the game was being made wholly independently until MS stepped in offering cash in exchange for Publishing exclusivity. I'm sure there's a Sony counterpart to that, though I can't think of it off the top of my head. But Spider-Man is not that.

For sure. Plenty of other indies signed with Sony.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

So Cuphead's development was going perfectly well and the developers were just chilling when MS knocked on the door to "force" them to take their money at gunpoint. If it wasn't for MS the game would have been just as good or better and finished sooner.

Who said that? No one said anything of the sort, just that MS came along with a big ol' check in exchange for exclusive publishing rights.

 

[sircaw]

Leave it out. The substance of it all is very questionable. Not only that, I feel the whole meaning of it has been taken out of context and blown to large proportions.

So what if the PS5 is easier to get to grips short term than the XSX. As no console has ever been maxed with its first or second round of software, it doesn't really matter.

These consoles are not going to really start shining until 2022 at the earliest. Everyone that is not in their first console cycle already knows this. Using it as some sort sort one up or getting upset over it is not needed.

A quick look at some of your reply posts in the xbox Power king memes tells me everything i have to know about what type of person i am dealing with.

I now get why you want this thread shut down.

 

[Journey]

Holy shit the way Xbox fans reacted to this news was both hilarious & sad.

Well now you are talking to me specifically and i never made either argument, I'd appreciate it if you laid off the straw-man

You shouldn't use lack of full disclosure as the basis to your claim/assumption a feature is missing even more so a basic RDNA2 feature. Sony simply hasn't discussed its GPU capabilities, they focused on explaining the key pillars to their strategy: variable frequency, SSD and audio.

If VRS has such a significant impact on performance on what reality do you see Sony being like "Yo AMD see that RDNA2 feature that frees up 20%+ GPU resources, get rid of it we don't want any performance handouts"

RDNA 2 is a "Feature Set", not just one technology. That set of features is determined by an engineering window.

Why are you being obtuse? If Sony closed its window on existing features and began development, anything new would not make the cut, some of these may have included VRS, we don't know and I hope it's there for PS5 as well, it's not like I want it to not be there, but their lack of mentioning VRS could indicate that it didn't make it into the PS5 SOC.

 

[Leyasu]

A quick look at some of your reply posts in the xbox Power king memes tells me everything i have to know about what type of person i am dealing with.

I now get why you want this thread shut down.

Of course. So having some fun poking the hornets nest is not allowed. Ok.

I already replied to you the first time. There is nothing more to say really. Just let certain people celebrate, when there is noting to celebrate, and common sense and looking at the history of consoles should be enough for everyone

 

[Dory16]

Who said that? No one said anything of the sort, just that MS came along with a big ol' check in exchange for exclusive publishing rights.

Have you considered that may be the Cuphead dev team was in need of more financial backing and support in order to fully realize their vision and reached out to MS ?
I bet you know for a fact who reached out to who in this instance too?

 

[ethomaz]

What? You must be lost really deep in the fanboyism abyss if you think a fan of one console can’t buy another console.

With that line of thought the only conclusion is that fanboys are only broke dudes that can only buy that one system and that will make them defend it to hell.

So he is not a fanboy? You agree with me.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Holy shit the way Xbox fans reacted to this news was both hilarious & sad.

Yeah, almost as sad as frantically scouring the internet for obscure development professionals to quote, just to then deify said Dev and triumph said quotes as a new Holy Grail of some hidden PS5 power treasure while repeating the same buzzspins (easier platform, simpler design, more efficient, more balanced, SSD Secret Sauce ala SSD alone will make graphics better by itself, etc) with no logical reasoning behind any of them. When questioned, just switch to repeating the same deflections and nonsensical analogies, or my favorite, just blindly label everyone else as fanboys. Riiight.

People claim only Xbox gamers care about specs, then why was this thread first written/phrased as something like “how the PS5 is more powerful than XsX” (needing a mod edit)? Let’s call it like it is: Everyone cares about specs. Everyone.

That’s why this has well over 1k responses and going strong, with multiple people either bending over backward to discredit the source or defend the source at all cost. This dude has practically become the face of the console war and no one had heard of him 48 hours ago.

If games are all that matter (and Sony absolutely has the games advantage) what was the purpose of all this, especially in the beginning (pre-edits)?

I wasn’t around here during current-gen’s launch, I wonder if things were this crazy back then.

But yeah, keep on pretending it’s just “one side” who are part of the problem. Don’t look in the mirror.

I think we all could do a little to tone down the warring nonsense. Both sides. Everyone in between. The shallow drive by shitposts in every next gen related thread serve no purpose, imo. The “disagree with me and I’m gonna report you” crap serves less than no purpose, it just makes things worse imo. It’s great to love what you hear about either console and also have concerns as well, these two things can be expressed without “lol Sony Ponies” or “LoL xbot” nonsense. Imo, of course.

Lastly, don’t be hypocrites, if you’re gonna bash the “XsX has staggering performance advantage” devs then don‘t just turn around and praise Jason’s anonymous sources on Twitter. It either works both ways or it doesn’t work at all.

Just my opinions.

(editing the grammatical errors on my phone has been a nightmare, sorry for those mistakes)