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[Poodlestrike]

Like 15 months ago, actually. I'm pretty sure principle photography on BvS was done before Deadpool even started filming.

Jesus, that's right.

...

I can't believe it's this close.

 

[Sojgat]

This just eliminates the need to make stringent cuts to achieve a PG rating. It's not like this is going to be Robocop levels of violence.

Also, if people think this is a reaction to Deadpool, they're basically saying Snyder is a time lord.

 

[Sulik2]

Did you even bother to read very first post?

Yup, it's the extended directors cut. Still doesn't change the fact that a Superman movie is going to be for adults only. That's insane even as a half batman movie. I'm sure parents are gonna love buying the r rated cut by accident for their kids this fall.

 

[Sheroking]

I honestly can't think of a super hero movie that I would consider great that deviates wildly from the source material. Pretty much all of the most lauded and praised super hero movies are the ones that try and meet the tone of the comics.

Too fucking easy.

 

[duckroll]

Also, if people think this is a reaction to Deadpool, they're basically saying Snyder is a time lord.

He's already an edge lord, so one more lordly title would not surprise me tbh...

 

[Garlador]

You don't like it (preemptively) because it's not adjusted to your preconceived notions, and not for its own merits so yes, it's empty.

"Pre-conceived notions"... as in the very HEART and SOUL of the character?

I explained how if you take away the things that make Superman "Superman", you get a generic, violent shell that's no different from his dozens of knock-offs.

Superman doesn't just punch things and shoot lasers from his eyes. He doesn't just smash through buildings and snap necks. He doesn't just act when he has no choice. He does it because he WANTS to. Because it's the RIGHT THING.

What does Superman stand for to you?

What's so funny about truth, justice, and the American way?

 

[MartyStu]

I honestly can't think of a super hero movie that I would consider great that deviates wildly from the source material. Pretty much all of the most lauded and praised super hero movies are the ones that try and meet the tone of the comics.

But WHICH comics though?

It is not like these books are all uniform in tone.

 

[Shamrock7r]

I honestly can't think of a super hero movie that I would consider great that deviates wildly from the source material. Pretty much all of the most lauded and praised super hero movies are the ones that try and meet the tone of the comics.

What about BvS do you feel deviates from the modern interpretation of both characters in the last 15 years or so? I think this is what you are implying anyways. Apologies if I'm mistaken.

Too fucking easy.

lol I didn't even notice that.

 

[Discotheque]

i'm glad these fanbases just stick to big comic book films. imagine if other movies had this level of discussion. with cornballs like moviebob and whatever other person has their own internet following. yikes.

"can't be rated R"

"not MY character"

not to mention it's just a home release. you see like 20 of these 'unrated directors cuts' every year on bluray. multiple page thread arguing over the ethics behind a dvd release lmao. the entitlement is real...

 

[Poodlestrike]

I honestly can't think of a super hero movie that I would consider great that deviates wildly from the source material. Pretty much all of the most lauded and praised super hero movies are the ones that try and meet the tone of the comics.

A lot of that is because fans tend to heap praise on the basis of being close to the comics, but... Burton's Batman wasn't exactly what I'd call close, except in a broad strokes sort of way. That was less about Batman the hero and more about Bruce Wayne the lunatic with delusions of grandeur.

Yup, it's the extended directors cut. Still doesn't change the fact that a Superman movie is going to be for adults only. That's insane even as a half batman movie. I'm sure parents are gonna love buying the r rated cut by accident for their kids this fall.

You realize that the PG-13 cut will almost certainly be included with that.

It'll also be at a higher price.

So those people are really sort of asking for it.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Batman going overboard on someone (if this is the case) doesn't hurt Superman, nor does it have anything to do with him. It's an overreaction.

Well I also don't think batman going "overboard" with enough that gets a rated r cut is inline with his character as well.
That's not to say that a rated r batman would out place.

 

[Shaanyboi]

How's Snyder's Batman run been doing lately? Haven't kept up.

Good. Different, but good.

 

[Dahbomb]

That boy scout, the American way, Gary Stu Superman doesn't get people in theater seats anymore unfortunately.

I honestly can't think of a super hero movie that I would consider great that deviates wildly from the source material.

BB, TDK, X2 and DofP I would consider good/great super hero movies that deviated greatly from the source material.

 

[Boke1879]

Yup, it's the extended directors cut. Still doesn't change the fact that a Superman movie is going to be for adults only. That's insane even as a half batman movie. I'm sure parents are gonna love buying the r rated cut by accident for their kids this fall.

No one is going to care to be quite honest. They are going to see Superman get his shit kicked in the movie anyway. What's an extra punch, or a little bit more blood, really going to do?

 

[generic_username]

I honestly can't think of a super hero movie that I would consider great that deviates wildly from the source material. Pretty much all of the most lauded and praised super hero movies are the ones that try and meet the tone of the comics.

What is the tone of the comics you are talking about because I assure you there are plenty of tones found in the comics for these heroes.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Too fucking easy.

Oh please, besides the fact that there were already comic books in the tone of the movie before the movie released, those movies aren't very good if you go back and watch them now. They were very much a product of their time.

If you honestly put Secret Of The Ooze on the same level as Winter Soldier/Batman Begins/Dark Knight/Guardians you're crazy.

What is the tone of the comics you are talking about because I assure you there are plenty of tones found in the comics for these heroes.

You obviously know what I mean. The ones that stick out and shaped the characters that we know them as today. There are comics that help a character evolve, and there are comics that change a character just to try and shake things up and put a new spin on things. The former are obvious progressions of the character, and the latter are either forgotten or remembered and mocked as obvious bad ideas that the current writers pretend never even happened.

All kinds of garbage comics have been written. All kinds of different interpretations have been made. Most of them are forgotten because they're bad ideas.

 

[Shamrock7r]

"Pre-conceived notions"... as in the very HEART and SOUL of the character?

I explained how if you take away the things that make Superman "Superman", you get a generic, violent shell that's no different from his dozens of knock-offs.

Superman doesn't just punch things and shoot lasers from his eyes. He doesn't just smash through buildings and snap necks. He doesn't just act when he has no choice. He does it because he WANTS to. Because it's the RIGHT THING.



What does Superman stand for to you?

What's so funny about truth, justice, and the American way?

I find it funny that you quote the title of that story which clearly had some very violent imagery that would be close to r-rated in a movie.

 

[Discotheque]

BB, TDK, X2 and DofP I would consider good/great super hero movies that deviated greatly from the source material.

the absurd opinion of "they're good movies but not good XMEN/BATMAN movies" has been thrown around a lot around here lately regarding those actually.

 

[boinx]

That boy scout, the American way, Gary Stu Superman doesn't get people in theater seats anymore unfortunately.



BB, TDK, X2 and DofP I would consider good/great super hero movies that deviated greatly from the source material.

BB is like straight up Batman Year One tho. Pretty sure TDK had some Long Halloween somewhere in there too.

 

[Smokey_Run]

What's so funny about truth, justice, and the American way?

The American way is usually quite brutal and violent..

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

None of this invalidates the basic point that trying new things won't kill you, and that rejecting the idea because "not my Superman" is silly.

But as for that last paragraph: Superman's killed before, when he had to. MoS isn't his first time killing Zod, hell, it's not his first time killing Zod in a movie; he did him in in a much more callous fashion in Superman 2. I have no idea what the Perry White thing is about. People misinterpreting Kent isn't new, but I wish it'd stop all the same. He's a father, he's scared, he wants the best for his kid but he's got no idea what that is. I don't get why people are so down on him.

Superman's basic traits are, honestly, being massively powerful and... well, as far as single constant threads go, that's about it. You can argue that he's also always been for justice, but the early character was considerably less scrupled than what you're probably thinking about; man hasn't always been a boyscout.

Also, there's very little indication that the guy you want won't be in this movie, regardless of rating. A little extra gore doesn't mean that they're suddenly abandoning everything (you think) Superman stands for. We know from the trailers, for instance, that upon deciding to deal with Batman, his first impulse is to do so as Clark Kent, intrepid reporter; how's that match up with your view of things?

Superman has never been a boyscout, but he should stand for something. And while Man of Steel is not the only time Superman has killed, it doesn't change the fact that he should never murder someone in cold blood. He should stand for something more.

It all ties back to how Man of Steel murdered Jonathan Kent. Jonathan Kent is the man who gave Clark his sense of justice. The understanding that he had a great gift, and that he needed to help people with it. That he could bring about hope to the world, and also that he needed a strong sense of reliability. This is an important element of the Superman mythos.

By destroying that, Snyder and Goyer destroyed all that Superman stands for. Destroying Perry White was another side-effect of their grim dark world view. Gone is that principled man of integrity who wants to get the truth out, and he's replaced with a man who immediately is suggesting giving information over to the government. In Man of Steel, there is no place for anyone who wants to do the right thing. Everyone is just a different shade of bad.

Keep moving those goalposts. Arkham Asylum is NOT suited for kids, so isn't the Killing Joke, just because it's "drawn" doesn't mean it isn't dark as fuck. And they are goat stories. Movies deserve the same freedom if made with the same artistic intent.

I never moved any goal posts. This is the same thing that I said in my original post.

I would personally have no problem with a kid reading those. I'd also have no problem with a kid watching the Godfather.

I do have a problem with a mainstream Batman story being specifically rated as not acceptable for kids. It's about the spirit of Batman more than anything else.

 

[Garlador]

Oh please, besides the fact that there were already comic books in the tone of the movie before the movie released, those movies aren't very good if you go back and watch them now. They were very much a product of their time.

If you honestly put Secret Of The Ooze on the same level as Winter Soldier/Batman Begins/Dark Knight/Guardians you're crazy.

Secret of the Ooze was a perfect kid's film and I've rewatched it more than Batman Begins and will probably rewatch it before I rewatch Batman Begins.

Go ninja, go ninja, go!

 

[Dahbomb]

What's so funny about truth, justice, and the American way?

The American way part is kinda funny when you are trying to market your character to a global audience.

the absurd opinion of "they're good movies but not good XMEN/BATMAN movies" has been thrown around a lot around here lately regarding those actually.

And that's fine but I personally enjoyed those movies despite recognizing that they do deviate from the source material.

BB is like straight up Batman Year One tho. Pretty sure TDK had some Long Halloween somewhere in there too.

Like the first half of BB is Batman Year One, the rest is very different from the source material. Especially the stuff related to Ra's Al Ghul. TDK is a mish mash of a bunch of Batman comics without being focused on any particular one, same for TDKR. The TDK trilogy is a very loose adaptation of Batman but is still Batman to me at least. Just merely another one of many interpretations of it.

 

[generic_username]

i'm glad these fanbases just stick to big comic book films. imagine if other movies had this level of discussion. with cornballs like moviebob and whatever other person has their own internet following. yikes.

"can't be rated R"

"not MY character"

not to mention it's just a home release. you see like 20 of these 'unrated directors cuts' every year on bluray. multiple page thread arguing over the ethics behind a dvd release lmao. the entitlement is real...

Not just comic book films but particularly Batman, Superman and Spidey. Wait till Spidey gets revealed and a hundred page discussion on how he misrepresents the character. You will not see this kind of discussion for green lantern or captain america or antman because lets face it - they are C tier heroes. No one is going to be picky about Black Panther or Antman.

Batman, Superman and Spiderman particularly face this problem because of their legacy.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Secret of the Ooze was a perfect kid's film and I've rewatched it more than Batman Begins and will probably rewatch it before I rewatch Batman Begins.

Go ninja, go ninja, go!

How low is your opinion of children?

 

[Garlador]

The American way is usually quite brutal and violent..

No, he's like Captain America. He's what America should BE, not what it IS. He's the ideal for the nation to follow, not a mindless follower who agrees with what the government does.

There's a reason he renounced his American citizenship once because he disagreed with the US government's actions.

 

[DaveH]

Superman is hope. Superman is joy. Superman is the purest, most iconic superhero in the world.

This is seriously creepy. Not just for the quasi-religious cult-like chanting, but because of how patently disconnected from the factual historical truth. I guess we'll just ignore the violent Golden Age, the dickery of the Silver Age, and the occasional institutional racism, misogyny, etc. He's just a bloodly commercial character sold to entertain you, not a second coming here to save you.

It has been over 30 years . . . . I haven't seen this hero done justice in decades...

Hahaha... lamenting something from 30 years into a 80 year life-span is just... tragically out-of-touch. Like the middle-aged guy still talking about his high school glory days.

If there are 30 years of stories sustaining a Superman of a different ilk, maybe the character's evolved while you're the fossil.

Imagine if we were insisting to this day that Batman was supposed to be Batman '66.

 

[BlackGoku03]

I'll take an R-Rated disc release.

Me too. And I know I'll see this movie at least twice in the theaters.

 

[Sheroking]

Oh please, besides the fact that there were already comic books in the tone of the movie before the movie released, those movies aren't very good if you go back and watch them now. They were very much a product of their time.

If you honestly put Secret Of The Ooze on the same level as Winter Soldier/Batman Begins/Dark Knight/Guardians you're crazy.

Original TMNT holds up pretty well IMO.

I`d totally put it in the same conversation as, say, Deadpool.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Countless children played through Joker torturing Jason Todd, crippling Barbara, and more.

Arkham Knight was rated M.

 

[Garlador]

How low is your opinion of children?

I was a child when I saw it.

I have no regrets and still have the Ninja Turtle Rap committed to memory.

 

[DaveH]

There's a reason he renounced his American citizenship once because he disagreed with the US government's actions.

Hahaha, that was written by Man of Steel's writer, David Goyer... who admitted he was trolling.

 

[generic_username]

I never moved any goal posts. This is the same thing that I said in my original post.

I would personally have no problem with a kid reading those. I'd also have no problem with a kid watching the Godfather.

I do have a problem with a mainstream Batman story being specifically rated as not acceptable for kids. It's about the spirit of Batman more than anything else.

What is going to happen in this movie would probably pale in comparison to the Killing Joke. So if you have no problem with a kid reading Killing Joke, pretty sure the kid will be able to watch BVS.

 

[Sheroking]

The American way part is kinda funny when you are trying to market your character to a global audience.

 

[Oozer3993]

This just eliminates the need to make stringent cuts to achieve a PG rating. It's not like this is going to be Robocop levels of violence.

Also, if people think this is a reaction to Deadpool, they're basically saying Snyder is a time lord.

Well he can slow time seemingly at will...

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

BB, TDK, X2 and DofP I would consider good/great super hero movies that deviated greatly from the source material.

These are actually some of the superhero movies that I would say are closest to the source material.

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are heavily influenced by Year One and The Long Halloween. They aren't 1:1, obviously, but they certainly are heavily inspired from the source material, and are tonally very close.

X2 is an adaptation of God Loves, Man Kills. Heavily altered, sure, but it's still an adaptation. Same goes for Days of Future Past.

Compared to most superhero movies which might adapt the origin story and then go about telling original stories with some famous villain, I'd say those are all pretty close to the comics. And tonally they're very much on point, too.

What is going to happen in this movie would probably pale in comparison to the Killing Joke. So if you have no problem with a kid reading Killing Joke, pretty sure the kid will be able to watch BVS.

Yeah, I doubt I'd have any issue with a kid watching this movie (well, for violence reason; quality will be another issue entirely).

I just am opposed to the idea of a Batman story being rated as "not for kids" on that principle. I think Batman should broadly do as the Romans do, and stick to the upper bounds of what is considered acceptable for something that kids might watch.

 

[Garlador]

This is seriously creepy. Not just for the quasi-religious cult-like chanting, but because of how patently disconnected from the factual historical truth. I guess we'll just ignore the violent Golden Age, the dickery of the Silver Age, and the occasional institutional racism, misogyny, etc. He's just a bloodly commercial character sold to entertain you, not a second coming here to save you.

He's a role model for children.

Just because he's fiction doesn't mean he doesn't have a societal or cultural impact. Some of the most influential works and characters of fiction have literally changed the world and changed governments.

And just because something is commercial doesn't mean it can't mean something, that it can't matter.

Words have power. Even comics have changed lives.

Millions of kids for nearly a century have grown up looking up to Superman and aspiring to be as heroic and noble.

I was one of them. I don't think anything I said is untrue or unreasonable.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Cool. I'd take an R-rated Dark Knight that doesn't have the few weird moments that were clearly done for a PG13 rating like Gambol and Lau's silent deaths.

 

[Dahbomb]

These are actually some of the superhero movies that I would say are closest to the source material.

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are heavily influenced by Year One and The Long Halloween. They aren't 1:1, obviously, but they certainly are heavily inspired from the source material, and are tonally very close.

X2 is an adaptation of God Loves, Man Kills. Heavily altered, sure, but it's still an adaptation. Same goes for Days of Future Past.

Compared to most superhero movies which might adapt the origin story and then go about telling original stories with some famous villain, I'd say those are all pretty close to the comics. And tonally they're very much on point, too.

Man if DofP is an adaptation of the comic than BvS is an adaptation of TDKR and Death of Superman .

Cool. I'd take an R-rated Dark Knight that doesn't have the few weird moments that were clearly done for a PG13 rating like Gambol and Lau's silent deaths.

It was the worst in TDKR. That scene of the random guy being run over by a tank was so awkwardly edited. Plus that whole scene of the policemen running into a volley of gunfire. The movie just didn't seem to work all that well in a PG-13 setting.

 

[Effect]

Yup, it's the extended directors cut. Still doesn't change the fact that a Superman movie is going to be for adults only. That's insane even as a half batman movie. I'm sure parents are gonna love buying the r rated cut by accident for their kids this fall.

Guess what they don't have to. There will be a PG-13 version that is the theater version for them to buy. This isn't going to be the only version to buy. So there should be no reason to complain. This is an option for people, no the only choice they have. Extended Editions/Director's cuts are always priced higher, look different, and clearly marked. The only change in rating was the violence. That's what the press release says. They aren't going to be greeted with sex scenes or cursing.

 

[generic_username]

That boy scout, the American way, Gary Stu Superman doesn't get people in theater seats anymore unfortunately.



BB, TDK, X2 and DofP I would consider good/great super hero movies that deviated greatly from the source material.

BB, TDK borrowed heavily from Year One and Long Halloween. They are not exact replicas but it is quite similar to the source material.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

A lot of that is because fans tend to heap praise on the basis of being close to the comics, but... Burton's Batman wasn't exactly what I'd call close, except in a broad strokes sort of way. That was less about Batman the hero and more about Bruce Wayne the lunatic with delusions of grandeur.



You realize that the PG-13 cut will almost certainly be included with that.

It'll also be at a higher price.

So those people are really sort of asking for it.

Which was an aspect of the character that was explored before Burton ever made the Batman film. That's my point. Like you said, there have been 75 years of these characters existing. Most of the good ideas are already explored somewhere in the source material. Making Galactus a cloud or having Batman hand over his legacy to someone he barely knows aren't great new takes on the characters. They're just shitty ideas.

Know what hasn't been explored (Or shit, maybe has and has been forgotten by time and ignored by everyone involved because no one thought it was a good idea?) Something like Superman letting his adoptive father die just to keep a secret identity. That's not some great new angle for Superman to take. It's just a dumb idea that doesn't make the character any more interesting than the dozens, if not hundreds of interesting angles Superman has already been seen at in the source material.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Man if DofP is an adaptation of the comic than BvS is an adaptation of TDKR and Death of Superman .

I mean, obviously the story is very different, but it's clearly heavily inspired by the original Days of Future Past, and it's broadly in line with what the X-Men are. I'd say it's closer to the comics than almost any Marvel Studios movie is.

 

[BadAss2961]

I honestly can't think of a super hero movie that I would consider great that deviates wildly from the source material. Pretty much all of the most lauded and praised super hero movies are the ones that try and meet the tone of the comics.

You obviously know what I mean. The ones that stick out and shaped the characters that we know them as today. There are comics that help a character evolve, and there are comics that change a character just to try and shake things up and put a new spin on things. The former are obvious progressions of the character, and the latter are either forgotten or remembered and mocked as obvious bad ideas that the current writers pretend never even happened.

All kinds of garbage comics have been written. All kinds of different interpretations have been made. Most of them are forgotten because they're bad ideas.

Well then, I nominate Batman Returns. Burton truly made that one his own.

Arkham Knight was rated M.

Yeah, that's what i'm saying.

 

[Garlador]

Hahaha... lamenting something from 30 years into a 80 year life-span is just... tragically out-of-touch. Like the middle-aged guy still talking about his high school glory days.

If there are 30 years of stories sustaining a Superman of a different ilk, maybe the character's evolved while you're the fossil.

Imagine if we were insisting to this day that Batman was supposed to be Batman '66.

In a Hollywood film. Stop being a jackass.

Superman has been done justice in countless other mediums, even recent ones.

Justice League's cartoon was excellent at doing this, being mature and nuanced without sacrificing the essence of the character or stepping too far.

 

[Ashhong]

A lot of dumbass "hollywood learning the wrong lessons" post in here. I'm not sure how someone could be that dense to think that in this scenario, so I'm going to assume they are just trying to meme like it's Reddit.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Arkham Knight was rated M.

American culture is scared of wreck less driving. Just look at the heat GTA has taken over the course of so many years. You'd imagine they drove school buses to Hollywood premiers and asked a panelist of 10 year olds to critic the films.

The American Pediatric Association already sees us as a counter culture because we expect parents to act like parents. I'm not even a parent and I feel like I have to act like one.

Here's the scenario: Batman crashes his bat mobile

Rating: R
He gets hurt: NC-17

 

[Dahbomb]

BB, TDK borrowed heavily from Year One and Long Halloween. They are not exact replicas but it is quite similar to the source material.

Most comic book movies are based off of some comic, doesn't make them accurate adaptations. Only like one half of BB can even be considered borrowing from Year One and even that is a stretch.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

In a Hollywood film. Stop being a jackass.

Superman has been done justice in countless other mediums, even recent ones.

Justice League's cartoon was excellent at doing this, being mature and nuanced without sacrificing the essence of the character or stepping too far.

I still think that Superman: The Animated Series is the single best comic book adaptation into another medium ever. Nothing has ever more perfectly captured the essence of Superman than that show.

 

[generic_username]

These are actually some of the superhero movies that I would say are closest to the source material.

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are heavily influenced by Year One and The Long Halloween. They aren't 1:1, obviously, but they certainly are heavily inspired from the source material, and are tonally very close.

X2 is an adaptation of God Loves, Man Kills. Heavily altered, sure, but it's still an adaptation. Same goes for Days of Future Past.

Compared to most superhero movies which might adapt the origin story and then go about telling original stories with some famous villain, I'd say those are all pretty close to the comics. And tonally they're very much on point, too.



Yeah, I doubt I'd have any issue with a kid watching this movie (well, for violence reason; quality will be another issue entirely).

I just am opposed to the idea of a Batman story being rated as "not for kids" on that principle. I think Batman should broadly do as the Romans do, and stick to the upper bounds of what is considered acceptable for something that kids might watch.

I understand where you are coming from. Anyway's I am sure there will be a PG13 version available as well so its just a win win situation.