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[Poodlestrike]

Neither Batman nor Superman should be R-rated.

But Man of Steel already proved that the people working on this stuff have no understanding of Superman's character or what makes for a good Superman story.



Indeed it was. One of the best things to come out of DC over the last five years. (Basically that and anything Lemire has written)

Lemire's GA run had some good ideas undermined by weak writing and propped up by god-tier, GOAT-tier art. Sorrentino's the real superstar there.

----

Also, I'd just like to point out that the "they don't get the character" arguments are bizarre and inane. They're 75 year old characters. They've been a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Open yourselves up to new and unfamiliar interpretations.

 

[firelogic]

It's amazing that so many people in this thread thinks that WB saw Deadpool's opening weekend success and decided to cut an R-rated version of the movie, submit it, have it rated, and then news of it released all in the span of 9-11 days. It was going to be rated-R well before Deadpool opened.

And what exactly was wrong with Superman in Man of Steel? This was a guy who was new to the job. He had never done the superhero thing before. He just learned to fly a day or two earlier. It was completely believable that he struggled with how to handle a mass crisis and a lot of lives were lost. He didn't have the experience to minimize casualties. Or maybe your problem was with his personality? This is a guy that has weird powers and was basically an outcast his entire life. Always knowing that he was different and then a few days before the big battle happens, he learns that he's an alien from another planet and his race is extinct. Not exactly happy-go-lucky there. Or maybe you don't like that he killed Zodd? What else was he supposed to do? What prison can hold him? Should he have just left the area? Zodd wouldn't have followed him. He would have stayed and killed every human he could see. Carry him away? Not really powerful enough to do that. Take a few days to formulate a plan? Nope. Maybe you think Zodd shouldn't have been used in that way at all. Giving Superman an equal in terms of strength was a stupid idea by Snyder. Yeah, Superman fighting a human Lex would have been fantastic...But Superman fights super villains all the time and doesn't kill them. You're right. He punches them really hard and knocks them out. That would have been such a satisfying end to that battle. This isn't Pokemon. And what happens when he wakes up? The world wasn't prepared to keep someone like Zodd subdued. Drugs? Physical prison?

Superman's character was perfectly done for an origin story.

All that said, I didn't love the movie. I actually thought it was mediocre, but my problems with the movie has nothing to do with how the character was handled.

 

[styl3s]

Wow, what? I guess there'll definitely be a R-rated version of Suicide Squad in this case. Lololz.

I would be absolutely shocked if they didn't shoot Suicide Squad with the intention of releasing a R rated "Directors cut" from the beginning.

 

[Poodlestrike]

It's amazing that so many people in this thread thinks that WB saw Deadpool's opening weekend success and decided to cut an R-rated version of the movie, submit it, have it rated, and then news of it released all in the span of 11 days. It was going to be rated-R well before Deadpool opened.

It's not just in this thread, a lot of people in that twitter post linked thought the same :/

 

[Future Foundation]

I don't agree with "anger" but I agree with moviebob's overall point.
Or sentiment

It's an optional cut of a movie that many may not even see (or, not want to). The theatrical cut is PG-13, the main DVD/Blu-Ray cut will be PG-13. We have no idea what happens in that cut - who does/says what or how it looks. It makes MovieBob acting like a human message board reaction (thanks, Bobby) look even stupider.

 

[Garlador]

My personal opinion and reaction to the Synder-verse Superman having a movie version that's R-rated, even as an alternate cut...

... I HATE the idea.

Superman is the greatest hero in the world. Batman may be cooler and Spider-man may be more complex, but Superman is the ideal. Superman is the standard. He's the bastion of morality, virtue, and kindness balanced with power and strength. He is the living embodiment of truth, justice, and the American way. He's the hero little children grow up pretending to be as they pretend to fly through their room with bedsheets wrapped around their neck. He's the hero other superheroes wish they were and aspire to be. He's the superhero even Batman says is a better man than he is.

Superman is hope. Superman is joy. Superman is the purest, most iconic superhero in the world.

And there's a reason dozens of Superman-knockoffs have come and gone without resonating nearly as well. Heroes with his powers but lacking his code of ethics. Murderous, violent, angry superheroes with capes like Supreme, Prime, Sentry, Apollo, Hyperion, etc... You take away the "light" that Superman brings to his world, you take away his inner gentleness, his kindness, his humble heart and modest nature, and you strip it away to leave only the dark, brooding, angsty, violent shell behind and you have a character that is no different than his countless, less-successful rip-offs.

It has been over 30 years since I've seen a Superman that inspires humanity and rises above the threshold of human pettiness and weakness. It's been SO long since I've walked out of a Superman film in theaters with a hero that can be a role model to children the same way he was role model to me as a child. It's been so long since I've see the greatest hero ever INSPIRE me and a new generation of future comic fans and superhero-lovers.

R-rated Superman is... is wrong to me. It misses the point. It misses the point so far it's shot into space and orbiting Krypton.

If there is one hero, ONE hero, that should be the hero that stands as a symbol of something BETTER than the mindless violence and murder of mainstream comics, it's Clark Kent.

Superman is for kids, and I refuse to say that that's a bad thing. The reason he has endured so long and resonated so strongly is because he appeals to the kids and the kids at heart.

A hero is more than his powers, more than his costume, more than his strength and the amount of flashy destruction and cool battles he can have.

I haven't seen this hero done justice in decades...

And, I won't lie, that seriously bums me out.

 

[duckroll]

It's not just in this thread, a lot of people in that twitter post linked thought the same :/

"Reacting to Deadpool" is the new "Marvel's comic storylines are being written with the movie license contracts in mind". Easy assumption to latch on to as a talking point for people who have zero interest in the actual substance of such a claim.

 

[Timu]

I'm watching that!!!

 

[Future Foundation]

My personal opinion and reaction to the Synder-verse Superman having a movie version that's R-rated...


... I HATE the idea.

Superman is the greatest hero in the world. Batman may be cooler and Spider-man may be more complex, but Superman is the ideal. Superman is the standard. He's the bastion of morality, virtue, and kindness balanced with power and strength. He is the living embodiment of truth, justice, and the American way. He's the hero little children grow up pretending to be as they pretend to fly through their room with bedsheets wrapped around their neck. He's the hero other superheroes wish they were and aspire to be. He's the superhero even Batman says is a better man than he is.

Superman is hope. Superman is joy. Superman is the purest, most iconic superhero in the world.

And there's a reason dozens of Superman-knockoffs have come and gone without resonating nearly as well. Heroes with his powers but lacking his code of ethics. Murderous, violent, angry superheroes with capes like Supreme, Prime, Sentry, Apollo, Hyperion, etc... You take away the "light" that Superman brings to his world, you take away his inner gentleness, his kindness, his humble heart and modest nature, and you strip it away to leave only the dark, brooding, angsty, violent shell behind and you have a character that is no different than his countless, less-successful rip-offs.

It has been over 30 years since I've seen a Superman that inspires humanity and rises above the threshold of human pettiness and weakness. It's been SO long since I've walked out of a Superman film in theaters with a hero that can be a role model to children the same way he was role model to me as a child. It's been so long since I've see the greatest hero ever INSPIRE me and a new generation of future comic fans and superhero-lovers.

R-rated Superman is... is wrong to me. It misses the point. It misses the point so far it's shot into space and orbiting Krypton.

If there is one hero, ONE hero, that should be the hero that stands as a symbol of something BETTER than the mindless violence and murder of mainstream comics, it's Clark Kent.

Superman is for kids, and I refuse to say that that's a bad thing. The reason he has endured so long and resonated so strongly is because he appeals to the kids and the kids at heart.


A hero is more than his powers, more than his costume, more than his strength and the amount of flashy destruction and cool battles he can have.


I haven't seen this hero done justice in decades...

And, I won't lie, that seriously bums me out.

EDIT: You know what? Fuck it.

 

[Kurt Angle]

my boy aflek

too savage for pg13

 

[BadAss2961]

Neither Batman nor Superman should be R-rated.

But Man of Steel already proved that the people working on this stuff have no understanding of Superman's character or what makes for a good Superman story.

Why shouldn't Batman be R-rated? Can't be because he doesn't have the content to match.

Arkham Knight was rated M in dealing with the Jason Todd material and shit like Professor Pyg.

 

[Poodlestrike]

"Reacting to Deadpool" is the new "Marvel's comic storylines are being written with the movie license contracts in mind". Easy assumption to latch on to as a talking point for people who have zero interest in the actual substance of such a claim.

I'm starting to get seriously worried about peoples' critical thinking skills.

 

[boinx]

I wanna see WW snap some necks.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Lemire's GA run had some good ideas undermined by weak writing and propped up by god-tier, GOAT-tier art. Sorrentino's the real superstar there.

----

Also, I'd just like to point out that the "they don't get the character" arguments are bizarre and inane. They're 75 year old characters. They've been a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Open yourselves up to new and unfamiliar interpretations.

Nah, they're usually garbage. Especially when movie studios get a hold of them.

Most of the time these interpretations are unfamiliar because no one in their right mind would think they're good ideas in the first place.

 

[generic_username]

My personal opinion and reaction to the Synder-verse Superman having a movie version that's R-rated...


... I HATE the idea.

Superman is the greatest hero in the world. Batman may be cooler and Spider-man may be more complex, but Superman is the ideal. Superman is the standard. He's the bastion of morality, virtue, and kindness balanced with power and strength. He is the living embodiment of truth, justice, and the American way. He's the hero little children grow up pretending to be as they pretend to fly through their room with bedsheets wrapped around their neck. He's the hero other superheroes wish they were and aspire to be. He's the superhero even Batman says is a better man than he is.

Superman is hope. Superman is joy. Superman is the purest, most iconic superhero in the world.

And there's a reason dozens of Superman-knockoffs have come and gone without resonating nearly as well. Heroes with his powers but lacking his code of ethics. Murderous, violent, angry superheroes with capes like Supreme, Prime, Sentry, Apollo, Hyperion, etc... You take away the "light" that Superman brings to his world, you take away his inner gentleness, his kindness, his humble heart and modest nature, and you strip it away to leave only the dark, brooding, angsty, violent shell behind and you have a character that is no different than his countless, less-successful rip-offs.

It has been over 30 years since I've seen a Superman that inspires humanity and rises above the threshold of human pettiness and weakness. It's been SO long since I've walked out of a Superman film in theaters with a hero that can be a role model to children the same way he was role model to me as a child. It's been so long since I've see the greatest hero ever INSPIRE me and a new generation of future comic fans and superhero-lovers.

R-rated Superman is... is wrong to me. It misses the point. It misses the point so far it's shot into space and orbiting Krypton.

If there is one hero, ONE hero, that should be the hero that stands as a symbol of something BETTER than the mindless violence and murder of mainstream comics, it's Clark Kent.

Superman is for kids, and I refuse to say that that's a bad thing. The reason he has endured so long and resonated so strongly is because he appeals to the kids and the kids at heart.


A hero is more than his powers, more than his costume, more than his strength and the amount of flashy destruction and cool battles he can have.


I haven't seen this hero done justice in decades...

And, I won't lie, that seriously bums me out.

While I agree with what you are saying.. this R rating may have nothing to do with Superman. It is most likely because of scenes involving Batman. Batman breaking bones will not undermine what Superman stands for in any way. I dont know how anyone can over react to this.

Neither Batman nor Superman should be R-rated.

No. Batman can be R rated anytime.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Also, I'd just like to point out that the "they don't get the character" arguments are bizarre and inane. They're 75 year old characters. They've been a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Open yourselves up to new and unfamiliar interpretations.

When they try to make Superman grimdark, or make him like Batman, then yes, they don't get the character.

Superman has been around for 75 years, and he's gone through many changes, to be sure. The character created by Siegel and Shuster was not the exact same one that was written by Cary Bates or Marv Wolfman, and that wasn't the exact same guy being written by Byrne, or by Morrison, or by Greg Pak now, but there are still recognizable and definable traits of Superman, and of Superman stories.

I despise the idea that Superman is "boring", and that he needs to be made darker. Superman works because whatever darkness he has, he's able to channel and suppress effectively.

Superman is a character about giving hope to people. He was conceived during the time of the Great Depression, and built out of those concerns. Superman stories touch upon darkness in the world, but Superman rises above that and shows us that we can still find hope, that there can be good in the world, and that everyone can make a difference. There's a reason that he works as a reporter, exposing shady business deals, drawing attention to those who have been ignored by society, and helping to right wrongs.

There are millions of grim dark works of fiction out there. But Superman is, and always has been, something about bringing hope to the world. To make people look up into the sky and smile. And so anyone who puts out stories where Superman is murdering people, where Perry White wants to sell out journalistic integrity to the government, where Jonathan Kent wants Clark to hide from the world and never use his powers, and where everything is drab and dark and full of depression with no hope to be found, I'm going to say that they just don't get Superman, and never will. They can go work on some Punisher movies if that's what they want to do.

 

[Garlador]

While I agree with what you are saying.. this R rating may have nothing to do with Superman. It is most likely because of scenes involving Batman. Batman breaking bones will not undermine what Superman stands for in any way. I dont know how anyone can over react to this.

It still has Superman's name in the title. That still makes it a Superman film. An R-rated Superman film.

And I don't agree with it.

I also don't agree with an R-rated Hobbit movie (based on the children's book!)

No. Batman can be R rated anytime.

No. Only when it calls for it and with extremely good reasoning.

Batman is still a comic book character whose most prominent audience is children. Society keeps pushing him into more and more adult content, but he's still a character for children first and foremost.

 

[duckroll]

I'm starting to get seriously worried about peoples' critical thinking skills.

Why? The way most people interact on the internet does not really call for critical thinking. It's basically the equivalent of just talking shit with colleagues on the way to the washroom or at the water cooler.

I mean, obviously the standard should be higher on a specialized discussion forum for special interests, but I'm honestly not surprised by the garbage on Twitter or Facebook every day. Lol.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

It's an optional cut of a movie that many may not even see (or, not want to). The theatrical cut is PG-13, the main DVD/Blu-Ray cut will be PG-13. We have no idea what happens in that cut - who does/says what or how it looks. It makes MovieBob acting like a human message board reaction (thanks, Bobby) look even stupider.

Sure.
I don't see how changes what me and bob think. The idea that there is r-rated cut with a non else world superman odd.

 

[Ahasverus]

It still has Superman's name in the title. That still makes it a Superman film. An R-rated Superman film.

And I don't agree with it.

I also don't agree with an R-rated Hobbit movie (based on the children's book!)

So it's empty criticism.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Guys, I'm sure the R-rated cut is just for more gratuitous violence for all the gorehounds out there. They're probably not making Superman "darker" or tackling any serious subject matter. This is a movie called Batman V. Superman: Dawn of Justice, for fuck's sake.

 

[Schweinehund]

When they try to make Superman grimdark, or make him like Batman, then yes, they don't get the character.

Superman has been around for 75 years, and he's gone through many changes, to be sure. The character created by Siegel and Shuster was not the exact same one that was written by Cary Bates or Marv Wolfman, and that wasn't the exact same guy being written by Byrne, or by Morrison, or by Greg Pak now, but there are still recognizable and definable traits of Superman, and of Superman stories.

I despise the idea that Superman is "boring", and that he needs to be made darker. Superman works because whatever darkness he has, he's able to channel and suppress effectively.

Superman is a character about giving hope to people. He was conceived during the time of the Great Depression, and built out of those concerns. Superman stories touch upon darkness in the world, but Superman rises above that and shows us that we can still find hope, that there can be good in the world, and that everyone can make a difference. There's a reason that he works as a reporter, exposing shady business deals, drawing attention to those who have been ignored by society, and helping to right wrongs.

There are millions of grim dark works of fiction out there. But Superman is, and always has been, something about bringing hope to the world. To make people look up into the sky and smile. And so anyone who puts out stories where Superman is murdering people, where Perry White wants to sell out journalistic integrity to the government, where Jonathan Kent wants Clark to hide from the world and never use his powers, and where everything is drab and dark and full of depression with no hope to be found, I'm going to say that they just don't get Superman, and never will. They can go work on some Punisher movies if that's what they want to do.

Maybe his stories are sometimes dark to show the contrast he has and to make the part where he perseveres that much better?

Kingdom Come is a good example of this.

There's really not much more to say until the film comes out. I do think WB has been listening to reactions about Man of Steel. I'm doubting we'll ever get a Donner or Singer styled movie out of this universe.

 

[Platy]

Will be a reaction to Deadpool if they announce this version is also hitting theaters

 

[Smokey_Run]

We don't even know how much is being added with this cut. It might be a whole two minutes of footage where trimming occurred to get a PG13 rating. Batman is branding criminals, I'm sure a scene explicitly showing that could warrant an R rating depending on how it was filmed. We have an entire Knightmare sequence of what looks like literal Hell on Earth, etc.

But please, continue to overreact without knowing all the details.

 

[Garlador]

So it's empty criticism.

I wrote a pretty substantial reason for my criticism above.

We don't even know how much is being added with this cut. It might be a whole two minutes of footage where trimming occurred to get a PG13 rating. Batman is branding criminals, I'm sure a scene explicitly showing that could warrant an R rating depending on how it was filmed. We have an entire Knightmare sequence of what looks like literal Hell on Earth, etc.

But please, continue to overreact without knowing all the details.

An R-rated cut's existence is plenty enough to know that a Superman movie (and it IS a Superman movie) is getting the most adult rating a film can get outside of porn. Whether Batman is the violent one or not, it's still a Superman movie.

It's like saying that it's okay to have an R-rated Lego movie because Batman's in it.

 

[Ahasverus]

I wrote a pretty substantial reason for my criticism above.

You don't like it (preemptively) because it's not adjusted to your preconceived notions, and not for its own merits so yes, it's empty.

 

[SimleuqiR]

Sequences of violence

You wanna see what happens when a Man of Steel tries to fuck a human woman?

Go on...

1 hour of Wonder Woman fighting completely naked.

We nearing japanese levels here...continue...

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

No. Batman can be R rated anytime.

I have no problem with a Batman story having the content that might get an R rating.

But I don't think that Batman should be rated R. I think Batman should always be handled with the understanding that kids love Batman, and it shouldn't be worse than a PG-13 or T rating. In comics, there's a larger acceptance of certain content than in films, so Batman comics can sometimes get pushed further than a PG-13 film might be. But I wouldn't be okay with a Mature Readers only Batman comic, either.

Maybe his stories are sometimes dark to show the contrast he has and to make the part where he perseveres that much better?

Kingdom Come is a good example of this.

Sure, Superman stories can touch on that darkness and show Superman persevering. But that's different than Superman running around murdering people, or just having such a dark view of everything. There's no perseverance in Man of Steel, only survival.

Kingdom Come was brilliant, and written by someone who really got the Superman character.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I wrote a pretty substantial reason for my criticism above.

You wrote a criticism for why a Superman movie shouldn't be R rated in a thread about a movie that is clearly only partially about Superman.

Then you followed it up by saying that it shouldn't be rated R simply because Superman is a part of the movie.

By this logic there shouldn't be an R rated Justice League movie because Superman is a part of it, despite the fact that the reason for the R rating might have absolutely nothing to do with anything involving Superman.

 

[MartyStu]

Why support the company that canned Gotham Central?!

Because they are the same company that let 'Omega Men' happen.

 

[Future Foundation]

Sure.
I don't see how changes what me and bob think. The idea that there is r-rated cut with a non else world superman odd.

Batman going overboard on someone (if this is the case) doesn't hurt Superman, nor does it have anything to do with him. It's an overreaction.

 

[generic_username]

No. Only when it calls for it and with extremely good reasoning.

Batman is still a comic book character whose most prominent audience is children. Society keeps pushing him into more and more adult content, but he's still a character for children first and foremost.

Well that is obvious. There have countless no of bloody dark Batman comics and many of them are absolutely superb and perfectly fit the character.

 

[Platy]

Batman can be as R as Superman .... it is not Batman OR Superman who does the R stuff, is their enemies =P

 

[Ahasverus]

But I don't think that Batman should be rated R. I think Batman should always be handled with the understanding that kids love Batman, and it shouldn't be worse than a PG-13 or T rating. .

I wouldn't give a kid Arkham Asylum to read. You're saying that story should not exist?

Besides, maybe they are trying to paint a darker world so the heroes seem brighter on it. It's Snyder, he loves his god like imagery.

 

[broncobuster]

My personal opinion and reaction to the Synder-verse Superman having a movie version that's R-rated, even as an alternate cut...


... I HATE the idea.

...

Look at it this way. A hypothetical What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way? film would be PG-13 on the cusp of R if not R-rated. In this scenario, Superman isn't why the film is rated that way. Replace that with Kingdom Come, or countless other stories.

 

[duckroll]

Because they are the same company that let 'Omega Men' happen.

Are you suggesting that my bitterness is preventing me from checking out something that might actually be good? No way!

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

You wrote a criticism for why a Superman movie shouldn't be R rated in a thread about a movie that is clearly only partially about Superman.

Then you followed it up by saying that it shouldn't be rated R simply because Superman is a part of the movie.

By this logic there shouldn't be an R rated Justice League movie because Superman is a part of it, despite the fact that the reason for the R rating might have absolutely nothing to do with anything involving Superman.

Are you saying the Justice League should be rated R? The story about a bunch of beloved superheroes teaming up to fight some super villains should be for adults only? Is that where this all leads?

I wouldn't give a kid Arkham Asylum to read. You're saying that story should not exist?

I'm saying that Batman should at least be broadly in line with what is considered acceptable in terms of violence. Arkham Asylum is not far out of line from what comics consider acceptable

 

[Sulik2]

Umm why? You're trying to build big dynamic universe that whole families want to see and your movie with the purest good guy hero in comics is getting an r rated movie? If this is suicide squad fine, but a movie with superman in it should never be R.

 

[TheFuzz]

So we are getting "I'm the GD Batman" in this, right?

 

[Tansut]

For real though, it's probably going to be some extra shots of violence that were deemed too much for PG-13 and maybe a couple superfluous deleted scenes.

Yes, they probably want some of the green that Deadpool is making, but it's not like they're filming some new shit just to be as edgy as possible.

 

[Effect]

Umm why? You're trying to build big dynamic universe that whole families want to see and your movie with the purest good guy hero in comics is getting an r rated movie? If this is suicide squad fine, but a movie with superman in it should never be R.

Did you even bother to read very first post?

 

[MartyStu]

Are you suggesting that my bitterness is preventing me from checking out something that might actually be good? No way!

Not my place to suggest such a thing.

Sounds like a conversation between you, your priest and your local librarian.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Are you saying the Justice League should be rated R? The story about a bunch of beloved superheroes teaming up to fight some super villains should be for adults only? Is that where this all leads?

I'm saying that there is a perfectly viable R rated movie to be made from Justice League.

It will never happen because the studio would be leaving money on the table. I'm not even saying it's the route they should take, or that it would make it a better movie. But you could totally make an R rated Justice League movie and still have it feel like a Justice League movie. Despite the fact that a character like Superman would still be involved.

 

[Shamrock7r]

My personal opinion and reaction to the Synder-verse Superman having a movie version that's R-rated, even as an alternate cut...


... I HATE the idea.

Superman is the greatest hero in the world. Batman may be cooler and Spider-man may be more complex, but Superman is the ideal. Superman is the standard. He's the bastion of morality, virtue, and kindness balanced with power and strength. He is the living embodiment of truth, justice, and the American way. He's the hero little children grow up pretending to be as they pretend to fly through their room with bedsheets wrapped around their neck. He's the hero other superheroes wish they were and aspire to be. He's the superhero even Batman says is a better man than he is.

Superman is hope. Superman is joy. Superman is the purest, most iconic superhero in the world.

And there's a reason dozens of Superman-knockoffs have come and gone without resonating nearly as well. Heroes with his powers but lacking his code of ethics. Murderous, violent, angry superheroes with capes like Supreme, Prime, Sentry, Apollo, Hyperion, etc... You take away the "light" that Superman brings to his world, you take away his inner gentleness, his kindness, his humble heart and modest nature, and you strip it away to leave only the dark, brooding, angsty, violent shell behind and you have a character that is no different than his countless, less-successful rip-offs.

It has been over 30 years since I've seen a Superman that inspires humanity and rises above the threshold of human pettiness and weakness. It's been SO long since I've walked out of a Superman film in theaters with a hero that can be a role model to children the same way he was role model to me as a child. It's been so long since I've see the greatest hero ever INSPIRE me and a new generation of future comic fans and superhero-lovers.

R-rated Superman is... is wrong to me. It misses the point. It misses the point so far it's shot into space and orbiting Krypton.

If there is one hero, ONE hero, that should be the hero that stands as a symbol of something BETTER than the mindless violence and murder of mainstream comics, it's Clark Kent.

Superman is for kids, and I refuse to say that that's a bad thing. The reason he has endured so long and resonated so strongly is because he appeals to the kids and the kids at heart.


A hero is more than his powers, more than his costume, more than his strength and the amount of flashy destruction and cool battles he can have.


I haven't seen this hero done justice in decades...

And, I won't lie, that seriously bums me out.

R-Rated doesn't necessarily mean unnecessary violence. As someone mentioned, Kingdome Come is a beautiful example of a mature storyline that powerfully shows the nature of Superman. Another is the often mentioned Action Comics #775 which has violent imagery. You clearly have an idea of what Superman means to you, but it is a narrow view that doesn't apply to the character as he is, has been, and will be for future readers/viewers.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Nah, they're usually garbage. Especially when movie studios get a hold of them.

Most of the time these interpretations are unfamiliar because no one in their right mind would think they're good ideas in the first place.

Except when they're great. Which is why it's important to keep an open mind. Costs you nothing, and sometimes you get some great shit.

When they try to make Superman grimdark, or make him like Batman, then yes, they don't get the character.

Superman has been around for 75 years, and he's gone through many changes, to be sure. The character created by Siegel and Shuster was not the exact same one that was written by Cary Bates or Marv Wolfman, and that wasn't the exact same guy being written by Byrne, or by Morrison, or by Greg Pak now, but there are still recognizable and definable traits of Superman, and of Superman stories.

I despise the idea that Superman is "boring", and that he needs to be made darker. Superman works because whatever darkness he has, he's able to channel and suppress effectively.

Superman is a character about giving hope to people. He was conceived during the time of the Great Depression, and built out of those concerns. Superman stories touch upon darkness in the world, but Superman rises above that and shows us that we can still find hope, that there can be good in the world, and that everyone can make a difference. There's a reason that he works as a reporter, exposing shady business deals, drawing attention to those who have been ignored by society, and helping to right wrongs.

There are millions of grim dark works of fiction out there. But Superman is, and always has been, something about bringing hope to the world. To make people look up into the sky and smile. And so anyone who puts out stories where Superman is murdering people, where Perry White wants to sell out journalistic integrity to the government, where Jonathan Kent wants Clark to hide from the world and never use his powers, and where everything is drab and dark and full of depression with no hope to be found, I'm going to say that they just don't get Superman, and never will. They can go work on some Punisher movies if that's what they want to do.

None of this invalidates the basic point that trying new things won't kill you, and that rejecting the idea because "not my Superman" is silly.

But as for that last paragraph: Superman's killed before, when he had to. MoS isn't his first time killing Zod, hell, it's not his first time killing Zod in a movie; he did him in in a much more callous fashion in Superman 2. I have no idea what the Perry White thing is about. People misinterpreting Kent isn't new, but I wish it'd stop all the same. He's a father, he's scared, he wants the best for his kid but he's got no idea what that is. I don't get why people are so down on him.

Superman's basic traits are, honestly, being massively powerful and... well, as far as single constant threads go, that's about it. You can argue that he's also always been for justice, but the early character was considerably less scrupled than what you're probably thinking about; man hasn't always been a boyscout.

Also, there's very little indication that the guy you want won't be in this movie, regardless of rating. A little extra gore doesn't mean that they're suddenly abandoning everything (you think) Superman stands for. We know from the trailers, for instance, that upon deciding to deal with Batman, his first impulse is to do so as Clark Kent, intrepid reporter; how's that match up with your view of things?

 

[Ahasverus]

I'm saying that Batman should at least be broadly in line with what is considered acceptable in terms of violence. Arkham Asylum is not far out of line from what comics consider acceptable

Keep moving those goalposts. Arkham Asylum is NOT suited for kids, so isn't the Killing Joke, just because it's "drawn" doesn't mean it isn't dark as fuck. And they are goat stories. Movies deserve the same freedom if made with the same artistic intent.

 

[generic_username]

I wouldn't give a kid Arkham Asylum to read. You're saying that story should not exist?

Or is anyone saying TDKR, Long Halloween,Death in the family, Killing Joke, Under the Red Hood, Black Mirror and hundreds of others.. are not meant to exist?

 

[BadAss2961]

I have no problem with a Batman story having the content that might get an R rating.

But I don't think that Batman should be rated R. I think Batman should always be handled with the understanding that kids love Batman, and it shouldn't be worse than a PG-13 or T rating. In comics, there's a larger acceptance of certain content than in films, so Batman comics can sometimes get pushed further than a PG-13 film might be. But I wouldn't be okay with a Mature Readers only Batman comic, either.

Countless children played through Joker torturing Jason Todd, crippling Barbara, and more.

 

[Sheroking]

They wrapped filming months ago, I doubt this was a last-second decision.

Like 15 months ago, actually. I'm pretty sure principle photography on BvS was done before Deadpool even started filming.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Except when they're great. Which is why it's important to keep an open mind. Costs you nothing, and sometimes you get some great shit.

I honestly can't think of a super hero movie that I would consider great that deviates wildly from the source material. Pretty much all of the most lauded and praised super hero movies are the ones that try and meet the tone of the comics.