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[Loxus]

A little reminder of the PS5 Pro performance from Tom Henderson.

PLAYSTATION’S SPECTRAL SUPER RESOLUTION (PSSR)

Game 1​

Target – image quality close to Fidelity Mode (1800p) with Performance Mode FPS (60 FPS)

Standard PlayStation 5 –

• Performance Mode – 1080p at 60FPS
• Fidelity Mode – 1800p at 30FPS

PlayStation 5 Pro –

• 1440p at 60FPS (PSSR used)

Game 2​

Target – Add Raytracing to gameplay

Standard PlayStation 5 achieved 60FPS without raytracing, and PlayStation 5 Pro achieved 60FPS with Raytracing.

So PSSR is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

 

[bundylove]

yes, it is the way to go. imagine for a moment if the Series S didn't exist. suddenly the new lower limit would be the PS5, a system that developers already have no issue with pushing to the point of running below 1080p wnd sometimes close to 720p.
imagine if the Series S wasn't there, if they didn't have a 4 TFLOPS system that the game also has to run on at some acceptable level.
who's to say if 720p upscaled to 1440p wouldn't suddenly be the quality mode instead of the performance mode? clearly they are ok with such low image quality.

what if developers tried to cram in more and more detail, more and more demanding effects? what if they only don't do that now because a 720p 30fps Series X game would be impossible to port to Series S?

I don't want to play Series S versions of games, I am glad it exists as a roadblock, something that stops developers from pushing resolutions even lower.
and I'm glad it exists because it is one of the reasons so many 60fps models exist. the Series S gives developers basically an automatic 60fps mode (as long as CPU limits aren't an issue)

and this is also why I want a pro console. now suddenly there are 2 buffers between me and shitty console versions. There's the series S that prevents Series X and PS5 games from overdoing it, and then the base consoles that the pro can improve upon

It was a good argument when Sony wasn't porting their games to PC.

I disagree and agree, Devs are pushing out PS4+ level games with multiple game performance modes because god forbid a developer actually builds their game around a set specification.
We only now getting games that look beyond what the PS4 can do and they have multiple modes too and it doesn't look pretty in the performance modes.
Does that mean they are any less powerful then the machine that came before them?
Don't know ask Kojima what his reply would be to getting MGS2 running at 120fps on the PS2 at the same resolution and keeping every graphical feature intact.
Yes games was simpler because the Devs made the game and shipped it and as long as it was locked and stable it was fine, that's the part that was simpler
They definitely wasn't simpler to make because their was a lot more bottle necks.
But at least they only had one target render to get stable before going gold.
And because of that they could build their game around that target.
Now if it doesn't have 60/120fps mode regardless of what you're pushing on screen and hitting 4k gamers will boycott your game.
It's not surprising games take longer to make and barely look any different from the PS4 counterparts.
Majority of games that people say we need more powerful hardware for run @4k at a stable frame rate with Raytraying, but that's not good enough.
Every game people quote that are running at low resolutions are in performance mode.
Which they never targeted their game around.
Even with the PS5 Pro people will move the goal post.
So while I don't think we actually need more powerful hardware if they plan on promising multiple modes to please everyone these consoles need to have power way beyond the game technology requirements for that time, because you're always gonna have this problem.
And based on the PS5 Pros leaked specs... they're ain't good enough either.

I want to add to this conversatiin that you really need a high end 120hz tv to get the most out of your console.

There is a night and day difference between standard 60hz 4k tv and a 120hz 4k with mlaa vrr gsync etc.

The fact alone that you can play at 40fps while keeping quality mode as such a bonus , people with standard tvs wont have this experience.

 

[TGO]

Still boggles my mind that Microsoft never intended to launch a Pro console.

 

[bundylove]

yes, it is the way to go. imagine for a moment if the Series S didn't exist. suddenly the new lower limit would be the PS5, a system that developers already have no issue with pushing to the point of running below 1080p wnd sometimes close to 720p.
imagine if the Series S wasn't there, if they didn't have a 4 TFLOPS system that the game also has to run on at some acceptable level.
who's to say if 720p upscaled to 1440p wouldn't suddenly be the quality mode instead of the performance mode? clearly they are ok with such low image quality.

what if developers tried to cram in more and more detail, more and more demanding effects? what if they only don't do that now because a 720p 30fps Series X game would be impossible to port to Series S?

I don't want to play Series S versions of games, I am glad it exists as a roadblock, something that stops developers from pushing resolutions even lower.
and I'm glad it exists because it is one of the reasons so many 60fps models exist. the Series S gives developers basically an automatic 60fps mode (as long as CPU limits aren't an issue)

and this is also why I want a pro console. now suddenly there are 2 buffers between me and shitty console versions. There's the series S that prevents Series X and PS5 games from overdoing it, and then the base consoles that the pro can improve upon

No disrespect but you dont belong on this forum.

I cant lose more brain cells on you on a friday afternoon

 

[Alebrije]

Still boggles my mind that Microsoft never intended to launch a Pro console.

They did , is the Series X.

 

[TGO]

No disrespect but you dont belong on this forum.

I cant lose more brain cells on you on a friday afternoon

No need to be that harsh, you should have just posted this to get your message across..

Spoiler

 

[drizzledre1018]

Such as???

It’ll be quicker to tell me what games run at native 4k with those effects applied

 

[bundylove]

It’ll be quicker to tell me what games run at native 4k with those effects applied

Mean without dlss or fsr?? None

 

[TGO]

Mean without dlss or fsr?? None

That's the problem, all Devs use it even in PC when it not really needed....or is it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I am going to throw this out there

Early in 2022 one of the mods here closed this PS5 Pro thread

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/rgt-...acing-innovations-release-date-specs.1632046/

I reached out to Mod of War: Remastered and told him that the PS5 Pro was 100% real as even back then certain people had the 15-17 TF number but I was pretty certain Xbox was also making their own Pro but those whispers totally dried up

Long story short I think they were at one time but something made them change course.

 

[Deleted member 848825]

I don't demand that. I would demand developers to stop targeting graphical effects and levels of detail that these consoles clearly can't handle. but that isn't gonna happen.

and that is why I personally like the fact that A: the Series S exists and I wish Sony had an equivalent system, because the lower specs keep developers in check at least a little bit.
and B: that we get a Pro model because the Devs will continue to completely overload the base consoles, but the better hardware of the Pro model will mitigate the worst offenders to at least some degree. (also PSSR hopefully completely replacing FSR2 in future titles)

I absolutely disagree that Jedi Survivor looks even close to good on console, especially at 60fps. we are at near 720p resolution here and that with constant edge flicker and FSR2 blur and fizzle. same with Robocop btw, which is why I got that on PC, because even my mid range rig wipes the floor with the console version

There is some merit in having an anchor. For example I'll happily have the PS5 as the main target. And then the Pro simply increase & improve the resolution/upscaling whilst also improving frame rate. However, the Series S isnt such an anchor I'd want. For me it lowers the bar too much and instead holds things back. Devs seem to hate it. Infact I even prefer last gens X1X over an S. At least the X1X was hitting native 4k.

Still boggles my mind that Microsoft never intended to launch a Pro console.

Yeah, they really only have themselves to blame for where they are today. I think its in line with Phil saying that he didn't think great games would be enough to win back lost customers from the previous gen. It's not the right attitude. That said, it'll be interesting to see what happens late 2026.

 

[Radical_3d]

Long story short I think they were at one time but something made them change course.

The success of the Steam Deck?

 

[Bonfires Down]

It’s called the Xbox PS5 Pro.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The success of the Steam Deck?

Very possible they decided to follow the handheld market

 

[nick776]

Still boggles my mind that Microsoft never intended to launch a Pro console.

They deserve the position they are in because of stupid decisions like that.

 

[Trilobit]

I sometimes think about how weird it is that there are people who are fine with playing games on 30fps mode on their PS5 on a good TV. I crave 60fps. But then I stop myself and realize that I too am weird in the eyes of 120fps PC players. And I don't even want to think about the 200+ fps crowd. I don't really want to play games on 120fps mode on the PS5 as it might ruin how smoothly I imagine 60fps runs. I'm going to skip the Pro though and save for PS6 instead as I hate selling things. But I'll still feel a bit sad that I can't play 4K on 60fps until then(hopefully).

 

[Moridianae]

Very possible they decided to follow the handheld market

That and probably the adoption rate of the Series just..not going anywhere.

 

[bundylove]

I sometimes think about how weird it is that there are people who are fine with playing games on 30fps mode on their PS5 on a good TV. I crave 60fps. But then I stop myself and realize that I too am weird in the eyes of 120fps PC players. And I don't even want to think about the 200+ fps crowd. I don't really want to play games on 120fps mode on the PS5 as it might ruin how smoothly I imagine 60fps runs. I'm going to skip the Pro though and save for PS6 instead as I hate selling things. But I'll still feel a bit sad that I can't play 4K on 60fps until then(hopefully).

Double edged sword situation.

On my $5000 30fps is jarring. On an oled large size its even worse.

I had a much better cleaner more stable image at 30fps on my older tv

 

[Radical_3d]

I sometimes think about how weird it is that there are people who are fine with playing games on 30fps mode on their PS5 on a good TV. I crave 60fps. But then I stop myself and realize that I too am weird in the eyes of 120fps PC players. And I don't even want to think about the 200+ fps crowd. I don't really want to play games on 120fps mode on the PS5 as it might ruin how smoothly I imagine 60fps runs. I'm going to skip the Pro though and save for PS6 instead as I hate selling things. But I'll still feel a bit sad that I can't play 4K on 60fps until then(hopefully).

One of the first things I did when I got a capable enough TV was shoot that MotorStorm heir that is Dirt 5 and try the 120fps mode. I couldn’t distinguish it from the 60fps one. I’ve never try any other 120fps mode ever again.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

That and probably the adoption rate of the Series just..not going anywhere.

Thats another good point

When I heard they wanted to try to get a head start on next gen maybe they decided to just wash their hands of this gen

 

[Loxus]

I am going to throw this out there

Early in 2022 one of the mods here closed this PS5 Pro thread

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/rgt-...acing-innovations-release-date-specs.1632046/

I reached out to Mod of War: Remastered and told him that the PS5 Pro was 100% real as even back then certain people had the 15-17 TF number but I was pretty certain Xbox was also making their own Pro but those whispers totally dried up

Long story short I think they were at one time but something made them change course.

Two years past since then?
I thought we started the PS5 Pro discussion a couple months ago.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Two years past since then?
I thought we started the PS5 Pro discussion a couple months ago.

 

[Loxus]

I remember that thread, it only felt like yesterday. Jeez time flies.

Before we know it, we'll be playing GTA6.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Still boggles my mind that Microsoft never intended to launch a Pro console.

They chose to release an Amateur and Intermediate instead.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Well.. all of MS's games are also available on PC. And if you pay Leather Jacket Man a ton of money you can get PS6 performance today. I don't know if MS wants to admit that is part of their strategy (as to why they don't need a PS5 Pro competitor) but maybe they should.

 

[SonGoku]

The reason I dont believe the $599 & $699 rumor is all the specs that have been hinted so far point towards a cost effective $499 console with conservative specs (Zen2 & RTX4060Ti tier GPU).
For $600 Sony could go balls to the wall and add either Zen 4c or Zen 5c coupled with a GPU on pár with a RTX4070

 

[ithilion]

man i made it. first post on neogaf after almost 10 years of lurking. fuck. on topic i am excited for the ps5 pro. problem is i live in brazil. this shit is gonna cost a arm and a leg god dammit

 

[drizzledre1018]

Mean without dlss or fsr?? None

Wow so powerful. It can barely run ps4 games at native 4k

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The reason I dont believe the $599 & $699 rumor is all the specs that have been hinted so far point towards a cost effective $499 console with conservative specs (Zen2 & RTX4060Ti tier GPU).
For $600 Sony could go balls to the wall and add either Zen 4c or Zen 5c coupled with a GPU on pár with a RTX4070

The Slim as it is... is currently $449. Figure the actual cost of the Slim is slightly above that, and figuring that they don't want to lose money at all on the Pro... and the better chip and ram probably cost an extra $100 or so... it's not hard to get to $599.

 

[Kaiserstark]

The Slim as it is... is currently $449. Figure the actual cost of the Slim is slightly above that, and figuring that they don't want to lose money at all on the Pro... and the better chip and ram probably cost an extra $100 or so... it's not hard to get to $599.

Totoki also said earlier this year in an investor call that a price cut for the PS5 will be very difficult, so yeah it's hard to imagine a difference of only 50 dollars between the PS5 and the PRO.

 

[Taycan77]

Maybe I am misremembering but wasn't the PS4 Pro touted to be twice as powerful as the PS4?

As far as brute strength this PS5 Pro is not that when compared to the PS5

Its all going to come down to how PSSR is used.

The only real world difference between PS4 and PS4 Pro was higher resolutions and some very minor performance improvements.

Being able to run Quality mode graphics with Performance mode framerates on PS5 Pro is already a much more significant improvement.

In addition I also expect a general improvement in the quality of Ray Tracing and better image quality due to PSSR.

PS5 Pro is far more compelling as much of todays software is already tailored to take advantage of better hardware.

 

[MISTER INVEIGLER]

A little reminder of the PS5 Pro performance from Tom Henderson.

PLAYSTATION’S SPECTRAL SUPER RESOLUTION (PSSR)

Game 1​

Target – image quality close to Fidelity Mode (1800p) with Performance Mode FPS (60 FPS)

Standard PlayStation 5 –

• Performance Mode – 1080p at 60FPS
• Fidelity Mode – 1800p at 30FPS

PlayStation 5 Pro –

• 1440p at 60FPS (PSSR used)

Game 2​

Target – Add Raytracing to gameplay

Standard PlayStation 5 achieved 60FPS without raytracing, and PlayStation 5 Pro achieved 60FPS with Raytracing.

So PSSR is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Those numbers would make the PS5 Pro an easy skip.

 

[bundylove]

Wow so powerful. It can barely run ps4 games at native 4k

But xbox does?

 

[Brigandier]

Thanks mate. That's what I'm thinking too. Just wanted a little reassurance. I'm hoping that equates to around £550 to £580 in the UK.

I'm thinking £599 with drive in the UK.

No disrespect but you dont belong on this forum.

I cant lose more brain cells on you on a friday afternoon

 

[bundylove]

I'm thinking £599 with drive in the UK.

Yeah i should have just left it alone

 

[drizzledre1018]

But xbox does?

I never said it did? Why is Xbox always brought up whenever someone criticizes Sony when I never even mentioned them? I was talking about both consoles

 

[drizzledre1018]

No disrespect but you dont belong on this forum

Bro what

 

[reinking]

I never said it did? Why is Xbox always brought up whenever someone criticizes Sony when I never even mentioned them? I was talking about both consoles

 

[bundylove]

Bro what

I see its the day of crazies today

 

[West Texas CEO]

A little reminder of the PS5 Pro performance from Tom Henderson.

PLAYSTATION’S SPECTRAL SUPER RESOLUTION (PSSR)

Game 1​

Target – image quality close to Fidelity Mode (1800p) with Performance Mode FPS (60 FPS)

Standard PlayStation 5 –

• Performance Mode – 1080p at 60FPS
• Fidelity Mode – 1800p at 30FPS

PlayStation 5 Pro –

• 1440p at 60FPS (PSSR used)

Game 2​

Target – Add Raytracing to gameplay

Standard PlayStation 5 achieved 60FPS without raytracing, and PlayStation 5 Pro achieved 60FPS with Raytracing.

So PSSR is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

This dude right here is waiting to post this on every page.

 

[bundylove]

This dude right here is waiting to post this on every page.

Whats a dildo archeologist?
Are you searching for lost dildos in deep anuses in hope to find the golden one?

 

[drizzledre1018]

I don’t get it

 

[nick776]

Anyone else thinking that really IS the PS5 Pro in the Astrobot Trailer--the one that crashes in the desert without the side plates on it? I think it likely is.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Whats a dildo archeologist?
Are you searching for lost dildos in deep anuses in hope to find the golden one?

Ask bender

 

[West Texas CEO]

The reason I dont believe the $599 & $699 rumor is all the specs that have been hinted so far point towards a cost effective $499 console with conservative specs (Zen2 & RTX4060Ti tier GPU).
For $600 Sony could go balls to the wall and add either Zen 4c or Zen 5c coupled with a GPU on pár with a RTX4070

Interesting take. I will bookmark this post.

 

[bundylove]

I don’t get it

Oh this be good

The reason I dont believe the $599 & $699 rumor is all the specs that have been hinted so far point towards a cost effective $499 console with conservative specs (Zen2 & RTX4060Ti tier GPU).
For $600 Sony could go balls to the wall and add either Zen 4c or Zen 5c coupled with a GPU on pár with a RTX4070

What?
The normal ps5 is $500 and elsewhere even more.
How do you get to $500 for pro?

The pro is an easy $600 .

No there wont be any price drop for standard at pro release. Prices dont go down anymore. Cost of living went up so did energy.

Is it woth $600? To me yes. To the majority hell no.

 

[drizzledre1018]

Oh this be good

Still don’t get it

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The reason I dont believe the $599 & $699 rumor is all the specs that have been hinted so far point towards a cost effective $499 console with conservative specs (Zen2 & RTX4060Ti tier GPU).
For $600 Sony could go balls to the wall and add either Zen 4c or Zen 5c coupled with a GPU on pár with a RTX4070

While I generally agree with you... The PS5pro GPU is lining up to be a 4070-tier candidate though. Likely plus/minus 10%.

Actually I hardly agree with you... just saw the whole zen 4/5c thing.

I do agree though that the $699 talk is baseless though.

 

[StereoVsn]

It’s called the Xbox PS5 Pro.

Every screen is an Xbox!

 

[StereoVsn]

Totoki also said earlier this year in an investor call that a price cut for the PS5 will be very difficult, so yeah it's hard to imagine a difference of only 50 dollars between the PS5 and the PRO.

They could cut by say $50, but not sure even there considering they just raised pricing in Japan.

IMO, they need at least $150 difference between Pro and Non-Pro.

That means even with $50 cut, Pro DE would be $550 and Pro Disk would be $600. Plus tax.

That’s like the minimum. If they don’t cut or if they want a $200 difference, it will be more.

So the price could be anywhere from $600 to $700 plus tax in US, IMO, for Disk model. Add 10-20% to that in EU € and maybe around £599 in UK.