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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland

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D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Avon Barksdale said:
As an American that doesn't know anything about Canadian politics, what's the difference between the Liberals and the NDP?
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Liberals are centre-left while the NDP are in theory, hard left, though lately they have gone looney tunes and skewed right.
 
J

jstripes

Banned
Avon Barksdale said:
As an American that doesn't know anything about Canadian politics, what's the difference between the Liberals and the NDP?
Click to expand...

The NDP is traditionally to the left of the Liberals, who are generally left of centre.

But in this election, the NDP put out a really mixed non-message that was all over the map.

Stumpokapow said:
She did lose two elections.
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I thought she was chosen as leader after the 2011 elections.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
That Horwath speech was bizarre. Saying the people of Ontario voted for change, saying she was going to lead the NDP in the role they'd been elected to...it was like she only had a speech for if they won, and she didn't want to deviate too much from it.

Also, Paikin is ripping apart the PC Party on TVO. This is amazing.

Avon Barksdale said:
As an American that doesn't know anything about Canadian politics, what's the difference between the Liberals and the NDP?
Click to expand...

Liberals win.
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
Avon Barksdale said:
As an American that doesn't know anything about Canadian politics, what's the difference between the Liberals and the NDP?
Click to expand...

Ostensibly the NDP are the social democratic party. But lately they've been heading towards the centre trying to get votes. In fact, the NDP recently removed any mention of socialist principles from their party constitution.

So in theory we have right, centre and left parties.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Avon Barksdale said:
As an American that doesn't know anything about Canadian politics, what's the difference between the Liberals and the NDP?
Click to expand...

Noting that the types of issues that are salient in America aren't the same as the types of issues that are salient in Canada, our Liberals range from the left to the center of your Democrats on many issues--maybe the best comparison would be sort of around where democrats in New England are in the US, while our NDP are a social democratic party (far to the left of your Democrats). The NDP typically derive their support from union households and social justice / progressive organizations; union membership is higher in Canada than most of the US. In this particular provincial election, the NDP ran a very moderate campaign, so you could place both the provincial Liberals and the provincial NDP somewhere inside your Democratic party.

Our PCs in Ontario are somewhere on the right end of your Democratic party with a tinge of sort of cut-spending libertarian anti-tax crusader anti-government stuff that infects your Republican party. But again the direct comparison is not easy, because stuff like abortion and a lot of the public values issues that are salient in your country are not a big deal here (likewise, universal healthcare is accepted across the spectrum here, more or less). This particular PC campaign ran pretty hard right; their main campaign promise was to create jobs by firing 100,000 civil servants and slashing taxes and spending across the board.

But I mean, the big thing is, it's not easy to compare parties across countries. Gay marriage here was a dead letter issue country-wide by 2007, and in Ontario several years before that. Immigration is not a significant political issue in Canada, except in Quebec, where it normally manifests itself in a way similar to European immigration politics rather than American immigration politics; also, notably, opposition to immigration is sort of a left issue in Quebec at least in part because the main left party was also Quebec nationalist. Issues of regional inequality within Canada is a big issue federally in a way that it isn't in the US, but not a big issue in Ontario. One of the major Ontario election issues in 2011 was about the particulars of the Ontario education system and how Catholic schools fit inside it (Canada is significantly more Catholic than America is, by percentage). So it's not like it'd be easy to say that parties have a 1:1 mapping.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
They'll have a recount there no matter what.

Simon Belmont said:
Now they just call him the former leader of the Ontario PCs. Feels good.
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s5highfiveangels.gif
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Y

You Are Viewtiful

Member
NDP made the biggest gain in vote count this election, don't see why Horwath should resign. Look at NDP numbers in Brampton or London, the performance was well even if it didn't translate to seats.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
You Are Viewtiful said:
NDP made the biggest gain in vote count this election, don't see why Horwath should resign. Look at NDP numbers in Brampton or London, the performance was well even if it didn't translate to seats.
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Because she turned down a budget that accomplished her goals to force an unnecessary election which didn't benefit her party at all and will certainly lead to governance moving to the right; transformed an opponent's minority government into a majority government; gained no seats; it was her second electoral loss; ran a campaign that many within the party felt was an abdication of the party's principles; your purported "gain in vote count" amounts to a 2% rise in the popular vote so noting that such a rise was larger than the Liberal's vote rise counts for approximately nothing.
 
Y

You Are Viewtiful

Member
If it wasn't for Horwath there would be no minority at all. NDP had nine seats when Andrea took over. This election fail was Hudak's fault big time, it should have been a minority if his numbers weren't such a fart.
 
J

jstripes

Banned
Mr.Mike said:
So Wynne intends to push through the same budget they had before.
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Nothing's stopping her now. But let's just hope she sees the light on how stupid the Scarborough Subway is.

Also, Doug Ford can shove his "unelected premier" catchphrase up his ass now.
 
E

elty

Member
Well deserved defeat for Hudek. With the Liberal going to the left, you would think the sensible thing to do is to steer towards central to steal their supporters (many are not happy about the gas plant scandal). Nope! The train to the right has departed in full speed (and derailed soon after). If he drop 2 things from his platform (no corporate tax cut, and replace 100000 job cut with downsizing through attrition) or just say "we will implement the recommendation from Drummond report " he would probably have a much better chance.

At the end, Liberal actually did not even steal NDP vote - the PC just gave up the central voters and forced them to go Liberal.
 
E

elty

Member
Anyways, I don't disagree with Horwath's decision to force an election. The Liberals are corrupted and voters deserved a chance to decide. Not her fault that Tim Hudek is a failure.
 
E

elty

Member
Mr.Mike said:
Extend it to Detroit. We could have Montreal - Toronto - Detroit - Chicago and it'd be great.
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Would be cool if it can connect to Vancouver, and linked with the proposed China-Siberia-Alaska-Vancouver-Seattle HSR!!! Imagine trip to Asia in just 4 days of high speed rail.
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
You Are Viewtiful said:
That would be nice. But if it wasn't obvious, that was my way of saying the DLR and HSR will never happen :p
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I'm aware of where you stand on these issues. I'm just sayin, building it out all the way to Detroit might be more sensible than just building it out to London or whatever.

Never happen? We have a liberal majority now, nothing stops this train! (I did expect them to shift rightwards after they won the majority, but they seem to be determined to continue with all the subways, trains and pension plans)
 
Y

You Are Viewtiful

Member
gabbo said:
Right, and lose their favourite target? Not going to happen, reality or no.
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Christine Elliott has to win, she can definitely work with labour. But knowing the bunk boys in the PC conventions, someone more Tea Party than Hudak, like Randy Hillier, could easily win. After John Tory, who is probably a natural loser, the Ontario PCs take "red tories" to be a poison.

Mr.Mike said:
I'm aware of where you stand on these issues. I'm just sayin, building it out all the way to Detroit might be more sensible than just building it out to London or whatever.

Never happen? We have a liberal majority now, nothing stops this train! (I did expect them to shift rightwards after they won the majority, but they seem to be determined to continue with all the subways, trains and pension plans)
Click to expand...

Well, when Wynne introduced the budget, my opinion on the HSR was exactly the same as yours. So I'm not disagreeing with you. I am simply tossing the HSR into the big pile of unfulfilled and broken Liberal promises.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
You Are Viewtiful said:
Christine Elliott has to win, she can definitely work with labour. But knowing the bunk boys in the PC conventions, someone more Tea Party than Hudak, like Randy Hillier, could easily win. After John Tory, who is probably a natural loser, the Ontario PCs take "red tories" to be a poison.
Click to expand...


Imagine if Tory becomes Mayor of Toronto lol
 
Y

You Are Viewtiful

Member
Wow, so after this election, Whitby-Oshawa (Christine Elliott) is now the lone Conservative seat in the Greater Toronto Area.

Liberals picked up Etobicoke-Lakeshore Burlington, Newmarket-Aurora, Thornhill, Halton and Durham, and NDP picked up Oshawa form the PCs.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
Anyone know the circumstances required for a mandatory recount?

Never mind, looks like it's 25 so Thornhill might not have to be counted again unless the PCs think there are enough questionable ballots to file with a judge

Judicial Recount
When the difference between the number of votes cast for the candidate with the most votes and the candidate with the next largest number is less than 25, the Returning Officer must apply to a judge for a recount.

A candidate or any elector in the electoral district may apply to a judge for a recount. This must be done within four days (Sunday excluded) of the declaration of the official results by the Returning Officer.

The applicant must present a sworn, signed statement that the ballot count by a Deputy Returning Officer at a polling place, or the Official Tabulation by the Returning Officer, was incorrectly made or improperly conducted.

Applications must be accompanied by a receipt indicating that a payment of $200 has been made as security for the costs of the recount. Applications for a recount may be refused by the judge.
Click to expand...
 
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