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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland

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It was only a matter of time until we had an attack. That doesn't make it any easier when it happened. Rest in peace for the soldier, and thoughts to the families.

I don't think it is possible to prevent every future attack, but these threats are definitely the Force's #1 priority at the moment.
on the case of Martin Rouleau, all branches did what they could in the confine of the law, his father even came forward telling cops that his son has become radicalized.

his passport was removed so he couldn't fly abroad and all three CSIS, RCMP and SQ were aware of his online activities.

An expert spoke this morning that when it comes to so-called ''lone wolves'', it becomes difficult to monitor them 24h when there are many small potatoes lone wolves to watch that they can't always be watching each single on all the time when there are more dangerous suspects being focused on.
 
Anyone still think we'll have a Spring election?

If the numbers stay this bad for the Cons,we may not even have a 2015 election. Constitutionally, I'm pretty sure that elections are still mandated every five years, so whatever the Elections Act says is secondary to that. If the polls are exceptionally dire for the Conservatives, I could see Harper stepping down late in this mandate and his successor asking that the election be put off to 2016. At that point it would be delaying the inevitable, but does it really sound crazier than proroguing Parliament to avoid a confidence vote?
 

maharg

idspispopd
If the numbers stay this bad for the Cons,we may not even have a 2015 election. Constitutionally, I'm pretty sure that elections are still mandated every five years, so whatever the Elections Act says is secondary to that. If the polls are exceptionally dire for the Conservatives, I could see Harper stepping down late in this mandate and his successor asking that the election be put off to 2016. At that point it would be delaying the inevitable, but does it really sound crazier than proroguing Parliament to avoid a confidence vote?

They could only delay it to May. I really doubt the backlash for violating their own fixed date law would be worth any theoretical poll uptick. Manufacturing discontent in parliament as a reason for acting undemocratically is easier when you're doing at least ok. When it's obvious that you're clinging to the last shreds of your power it doesn't work so well, it just looks desperate.

Also I don't think Harper's out for any reason other than losing at this point. I don't think he can let go.
 
another NDP MP defects; oh NDP recruiting nationalists then seeing them defect because they are nationalists
n-JEANFRANOIS-LAROSE-THOMAS-MULCAIR-large570.jpg

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/21/jean-francois-larose-ndp-bloc-quebec_n_6022486.html
 
They could only delay it to May. I really doubt the backlash for violating their own fixed date law would not be worth any theoretical poll uptick. Manufacturing discontent in parliament as a reason for acting undemocratically is easier when you're doing at least ok. When it's obvious that you're clinging to the last shreds of your power it doesn't work so well, it just looks desperate.

Also I don't think Harper's out for any reason other than losing at this point. I don't think he can let go.

Agreed on both points. If they do delay the election past October, it's basically a sign they know they're going to get crushed, but if Harper's entire motivation for wanting to be PM longer is...wanting to be PM longer (which some people have suggested it is -- Paul Wells even made that the theme of his latest Harper hagiography), then it's not totally unthinkable.

On a completely unrelated note, I'll cross-post something from the Ottawa Shootings thread, since it seems worthy of discussion here -- Anyone else see this in the National Post?

Conservatives mulling legislation making it illegal to condone terrorist acts online

Sources suggest the government is likely to bring in new hate speech legislation that would make it illegal to claim terrorist acts are justified online.

Depending on how it's worded, it feels like that could be awfully easy to abuse. I know that they want to stop people being radicalized by what they read online, but at the same time, how far does claiming terrorist acts are "justified" go?
 
for the case of Martin Rouleau, our police forces were limited by the confines of the law and did not have the legal grounds to detain or contain Rouleau because most of his activities were online weeks prior to his attack using his car.

Something has to be done to give them a little more means to be able to hold or detain such an individual and make an evaluation on such a profile
 

maharg

idspispopd
for the case of Martin Rouleau, our police forces were limited by the confines of the law and did not have the legal grounds to detain or contain Rouleau because most of his activities were online weeks prior to his attack using his car.

Something has to be done to give them a little more means to be able to hold or detain such an individual and make an evaluation on such a profile

The idea that the police should be able to arrest someone for fitting a profile is terrifying and no one should be advocating it.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
The idea that the police should be able to arrest someone for fitting a profile is terrifying and no one should be advocating it.

So says the guy who uses an EXPLOSIVE DEVICE as his online avatar. Makes you think ... ... Just asking questions.
 

Boogie

Member
for the case of Martin Rouleau, our police forces were limited by the confines of the law and did not have the legal grounds to detain or contain Rouleau because most of his activities were online weeks prior to his attack using his car.

Something has to be done to give them a little more means to be able to hold or detain such an individual and make an evaluation on such a profile

Yeeeaah, how 'bout NO...
 
for the case of Martin Rouleau, our police forces were limited by the confines of the law and did not have the legal grounds to detain or contain Rouleau because most of his activities were online weeks prior to his attack using his car.

Something has to be done to give them a little more means to be able to hold or detain such an individual and make an evaluation on such a profile

For someone who identifies so strongly as a Liberal (big L and small l) and who hates Harper so vehemently, you certainly have an...interesting way of looking at things.

Considering their track record, I can't say I trust this government at all to put together reasoned legislation that doesn't overreach. If their aim is to stop people from "justifying terrorism" online, there's significant potential for that to be abused. And where does it end? Would some nutjob conservative try to prosecute Trudeau for saying we need to look at the roots of radicalism? Do they go after people like Glenn Greenwald, for saying that aggressive foreign policy can lead to radicalization? Is anyone who criticizes the state of Israel suddenly guilty of justifying terror? The Harper Government has yet to show that they know how subtlety and nuance work, so the thought of them being allowed to go after people under the nebulous cause of "justifying terrorism online" should make you at least a little concerned.
 
I don't hate Harper; I just disagree with several of their policy choices and their strange obsession of trying to make us USA lite. I don't hate them.

My hate is reserved for the PQ
 

percephone

Neo Member
I don't hate Harper; I just disagree with several of their policy choices and their strange obsession of trying to make us USA lite. I don't hate them.

My hate is reserved for the PQ

Hate is such a strong word. You might be detained or held pending evaluation for saying such a thing under the new law you're advocating. Are you Richard Bain?
 

Mr.Mike

Member
People politicize and overplay the Ottawa incident. While it is tragic that a young man was killed, and scary that a shooter made it into Parliament, it was only a single deranged man. As far as I'm aware, there wasn't a political motive or any sort of terrorist influence. Certainly I don't think that "strengthening" police and intelligence powers is a logical response to this incident, although I can certainly understand an emotional desire for such things. Ultimately, the only changes that I think this event should compel us towards are figuring out a better way to deal with unstable people like the shooter, and setting up Parliament so somebody can't just run in with a rifle. Hopefully this event will be nothing more than an interesting bit of trivia to accompany sharpened flag poles in museums.

The more interesting case is the man who ran over the soldiers. He was a known radical who was influenced by ISIS. But even then I don't think the best response is to start locking up every one else on a list. That sort of stuff brings up a lot of hard questions that I don't think we can find satisfactory answers to, certainly not easily. In my view, the much easier and more sensible course of action would be to step up deradicallization efforts and/or figure out how to better deradicalize people. Although that also brings up some ethical/moral concerns in me, it's much better than just locking up everyone who makes it onto a list.


Anyways, CGP Grey has posted a video on STV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI&list=UU2C_jShtL725hvbm1arSV9w
 

Boogie

Member
People politicize and overplay the Ottawa incident. While it is tragic that a young man was killed, and scary that a shooter made it into Parliament, it was only a single deranged man. As far as I'm aware, there wasn't a political motive or any sort of terrorist influence. Certainly I don't think that "strengthening" police and intelligence powers is a logical response to this incident, although I can certainly understand an emotional desire for such things. Ultimately, the only changes that I think this event should compel us towards are figuring out a better way to deal with unstable people like the shooter, and setting up Parliament so somebody can't just run in with a rifle. Hopefully this event will be nothing more than an interesting bit of trivia to accompany sharpened flag poles in museums.

Maybe you might want to hold off from making any declarations/assumptions about the shooter's ideology:

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/ne...cal-political-motives-rcmp&pubdate=2014-10-26
 

maharg

idspispopd
I don't think anyone doubts that he said and/or believed he was doing what he was doing for political and ideological reasons, but with what we know right now calling it terrorism (where the clear implication of an accusation of terrorism is that it's part of an *organized* effort at terror, lest all sensational crimes be labelled terrorism for eternity) on those grounds seems a bit like accusing the guy running a regular game of poker in his basement of racketeering.
 

Boogie

Member
I don't understand those who argue that because these people are acting as lone wolves, it isn't "terrorism."

Or To put it another way: if these attacks are not "terrorism", then the threat they pose shouldn't be the concern or mandate of the RCMP INSET program, we shouldn't be doing the investigational follow up on Bibeau, or expending resources on keeping tabs on, or trying to thwart, the 90 radicalized ISIS supporters who have been reported on.

If it's not "terrorism", then it's not a National Security concern, and therefore the RCMP shouldn't be investigating these matters at all. Call in the local police force of jurisdiction.

Which is absurd.


He may not have "organized" with ISIS, but ISIS put out the call for who to target, and Bibeau, if ISIS did indeed inspire his attack, followed those "instructions" accordingly.
 

Silexx

Member
I'm with Boogie on this one. Regardless of his affiliations (or lack thereof) with any other group, his actions on Wednesday most definitely qualify as terrorism.
 
I don't understand those who argue that because these people are acting as lone wolves, it isn't "terrorism."

Or To put it another way: if these attacks are not "terrorism", then the threat they pose shouldn't be the concern or mandate of the RCMP INSET program, we shouldn't be doing the investigational follow up on Bibeau, or expending resources on keeping tabs on, or trying to thwart, the 90 radicalized ISIS supporters who have been reported on.

If it's not "terrorism", then it's not a National Security concern, and therefore the RCMP shouldn't be investigating these matters at all. Call in the local police force of jurisdiction.

Which is absurd.


He may not have "organized" with ISIS, but ISIS put out the call for who to target, and Bibeau, if ISIS did indeed inspire his attack, followed those "instructions" accordingly.

I agree with you 100%.

+ BIbieau recorded a video about his intentions and motives which places him where what we would define a terrorist.
 

Azih

Member
Terrorism has to do with the motivations of an attacker, not how big a group they may be in. Man is a terrorist.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
There was an Ernie The Baconman on my municipal ballot running for mayor. All in all, not an impressive selection of candidates in my riding, but at least the mayoral candidate I voted for seems pretty strong.

As for the discussion about the attacks, obviously the new information changes the meaning of the attacks.
 

Boogie

Member
As for the discussion about the attacks, obviously the new information changes the meaning of the attacks.

At the risk of starting a fight in spite of us all being on the same page now........no. Wrong.

The new information does not change the meaning of the attacks. It confirms what the most likely meaning/motivation/explanation for the attacks was in the first place.

The weird nascent narrative that was trying to emerge to paint the attacks as something that was a mental health issue/deranged individual first, and a political act/terrorist attack not at all or afterthought at most, was never a logical, probable, or credible explanation for the incident.

The news today corroborates the meaning, it does not change it.
 

maharg

idspispopd
I agree the recent 'news' doesn't change anything, but we obviously have very different ideas about what it didn't change. I'm actually quite baffled as to why anyone wouldn't think they'd find something to tie what he did to ideological rantings, and I honestly don't see how it somehow denies reports of mental illness. A mentally ill person ranting about extremist ideologies? Why I never!

Please don't mistake your priorities for absolute truth.
 
I don't see why the two have to be seen as mutually exclusive. You can be both mentally ill and a terrorist. In fact, I'd say that pretty much every terrorist is a little bit off in the head, so debating whether he was one or the other kind of misses the point.

Also, there are lots of mentally ill people, and I'd imagine that the vast majority of them don't go around committing carefully planned murders. The fact this one did makes it seem pretty likely that there were some religious/political motivating factors at work, no?
 

maharg

idspispopd
I don't see why the two have to be seen as mutually exclusive. You can be both mentally ill and a terrorist. In fact, I'd say that pretty much every terrorist is a little bit off in the head, so debating whether he was one or the other kind of misses the point.

Also, there are lots of mentally ill people, and I'd imagine that the vast majority of them don't go around committing carefully planned murders. The fact this one did makes it seem pretty likely that there were some religious/political motivating factors at work, no?

The issue is that prioritizing the terrorist element gives us an excuse to continue ignoring the problems with how we deal with mental illness in this country, and how those problems lead to people with mental illness being put in vulnerable positions that lead them to acts of violence, which are definitely not just confined to what we currently call terrorism.

There's also the fact that, given current common assumptions about what terrorism is, it paints this as an attack by outsiders, when it was one of our own who did this. Someone we probably failed as a society. We need to deal with that before we use it as an excuse for more American-style adventuring trying to save the world.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
The issue is that prioritizing the terrorist element gives us an excuse to continue ignoring the problems with how we deal with mental illness in this country, and how those problems lead to people with mental illness being put in vulnerable positions that lead them to acts of violence, which are definitely not just confined to what we currently call terrorism.

There's also the fact that, given current common assumptions about what terrorism is, it paints this as an attack by outsiders, when it was one of our own who did this. Someone we probably failed as a society. We need to deal with that before we use it as an excuse for more American-style adventuring trying to save the world.

This is probably one of the most sound posts regarding this topic, totally agree 100%.
 
for some weak-kneed people, there seems to be a double standard when it's Canadian born white guys who do terrorist acts when compared to a foreign born non-European decent darker skinned people doing terrorist act.

A terrorist is a terrorist, regardless of the spelling of his last name, place of birth or paleness of skin.

Rouleau was a terrorist.
Zehaf-Bibeau was a terrorist.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Fair enough, though I agree with Mulcair's opinion here, I obviously can't speak to if he would apply the idea unevenly.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
There was a Saudi diplomat that got pulled over for drunk driving in Ottawa(which is ironic considering the punishment a regular Saudi citizen would get if they were caught drinking in SA), but he refused the breathalyzer and had to be let go because of diplomatic immunity. I'm not sure how much I like a foreign diplomat using public taxpayer funded roads to endanger Canadian citizens and then being let go due to diplomatic immunity.

Bibeau attacked two of our highest archetypal symbols of our nation: that pretty much places him as a terrorist

I agree that he should be labelled a terrorist(though I agree with maharg that the terrorist label shouldn't overshadow the fact that this man needed help for his mental illness), but using that argument, why isn't Justin Bourque being labeled a terrorist as well? Is it because he's a white non-Muslim? Personally, I'm just as proud of those three RCMP officers who served our country as I am of Cpl Nathan Cirillo, but one's death is essentially being paraded for political gains by the Conservatives, while the other three, most people would struggle to even recall their names.

This article brings up some good points: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/christopher-stuart-taylor/canadian-terrorism_b_6064542.html
 

Azih

Member
Borque's motivations were to 'start a revolution' he's a terrorist just as much as Bibeau is. They both should really be treated the same. But they aren't and that's a sad thing.
 

percephone

Neo Member
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...s-baisses-dimpot-pour-toutes-les-familles.php

Harprer promising income tax cuts........................... for families. So single people not in families don;t see any cuts.

The last PM to cut income taxes across the board with no strings attached was Paul Martin.

I hate promises of conditional tax cuts with strings attached, it's just not fuckin' fair.

I want my income tax cut!!!

I need to find myself an spouse with no/low income.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...s-baisses-dimpot-pour-toutes-les-familles.php

Harprer promising income tax cuts........................... for families. So single people not in families don;t see any cuts.

The last PM to cut income taxes across the board with no strings attached was Paul Martin.

I hate promises of conditional tax cuts with strings attached, it's just not fuckin' fair.

I want my income tax cut!!!

This doesn't help me, my brothers, my parents or most of my friends. In fact, this is going to benefit wealthier couples with multiple children the most. I think this is a pretty piss poor attempt at buying votes.
 
This doesn't help me, my brothers, my parents or most of my friends. In fact, this is going to benefit wealthier couples with multiple children the most. I think this is a pretty piss poor attempt at buying votes.
also single moms with kids are not considered as families with the wording used in this
 

Boogie

Member
I don't see why the two have to be seen as mutually exclusive. You can be both mentally ill and a terrorist. In fact, I'd say that pretty much every terrorist is a little bit off in the head, so debating whether he was one or the other kind of misses the point.

Also, there are lots of mentally ill people, and I'd imagine that the vast majority of them don't go around committing carefully planned murders. The fact this one did makes it seem pretty likely that there were some religious/political motivating factors at work, no?

Agreed. I don't view it as an either/or scenario.

There's also the fact that, given current common assumptions about what terrorism is, it paints this as an attack by outsiders, when it was one of our own who did this. Someone we probably failed as a society. We need to deal with that before we use it as an excuse for more American-style adventuring trying to save the world.

I completely disagree with your portrayal of what calling this attack "terrorism" necessarily entails.

A) The reaction to a terrorist attack does not necessarily require "American-style adventuring" in response. I think that to tie "counterterrorism" action to "American" behaviour is quite warped, frankly. (which is to say, newsflash: we've been engaged in counterterrorism action in this country for 13 years. It's not a new thing.)

B) On the contrary, calling this "terrorism" is not to paint these attacks as attacks by "outsiders", but it is to wake Canadians up to the fact that we do have a problem with radicalization here, at home, with our own sons and daughters. It did not begin with the attacks last week. We've had the Toronto 18, we've had the conviction of Khawaja, we've had the conviction of Misbahuddin Ahmed, we've had Chiheb Esseghaier and Raed Jaser charged in the VIA rail plot, we've had three London youths travel to Algeria with two dying in the gas plant attack. And we have the 90+ identified "high-risk travellers" who have expressed an interest in fighting in Syria.

Acknowledging terrorism in Canada is not about painting the attacks as performed by "outsiders", it is not about launching airstrikes and special forces raids halfway around the world, it is about acknowledging that Canada is not a special snowflake, somehow immune from the same tensions, conflicts and threats that have faced the United States, Britain, Spain, Australia, and others.

Desperately avoiding using the "T" word and painting last week's two events as solely or mainly a mental health issue will do nothing to solve the problem this country has with radicalization.

(which is not to say that Parliament must specifically institute new laws/powers in response to last week's events. The nature of Couture-Rouleau's attack, in particular, makes me believe that there is nothing that could have been done to prevent it.)



I personally believe that there is a certain irony in Mulcair demanding an RCMP protective detail 24/7 immediately following the attacks, with him declaring this week that it was a simple criminal act, not terrorism.

Tom, if it was a simple, random, criminal act, why did you not need a 24/7 protective detail two weeks ago, but now you do? If it was a simple, random, criminal act, why was the RCMP response of "we will conduct a thorough threat assessment on the subject and get back to you" not acceptable, when that response was acceptable to Justin Trudeau having his f'ing home broken into?

There was a Saudi diplomat that got pulled over for drunk driving in Ottawa(which is ironic considering the punishment a regular Saudi citizen would get if they were caught drinking in SA), but he refused the breathalyzer and had to be let go because of diplomatic immunity. I'm not sure how much I like a foreign diplomat using public taxpayer funded roads to endanger Canadian citizens and then being let go due to diplomatic immunity.

That's nothing. As I recall, a Russian diplomat actually killed someone in Ottawa in a drunk driving incident in the 90s, and, naturally, got off scot free due to diplomatic immunity.

I remember doing security for the Francophone Summit in Quebec City in 2008, and getting briefed on if you catch a diplomat committing an offence: "welllll, you can't arrest them or charge them......but you may be allowed to detain them to prevent the continuation of the offence....maybe......"

as an aside, I thank you for your kind words and thoughts for the Moncton victims. I did not "know" them, but one of them was only a week behind me in training, and so at a minimum, he was someone whose hand I would have shook.


Borque's motivations were to 'start a revolution' he's a terrorist just as much as Bibeau is. They both should really be treated the same. But they aren't and that's a sad thing.

For obviously apparent reasons, I am all for treating Bourque as a domestic terrorist, and all the "Freeman on the Land/Sovereign Citizens"-types along with him. That's a whole other can of worms, unfortunately. I will have to take solace that that asshole will have no chance of parole for anywhere between 50 and 75 years.

I want my income tax cut!!!

I know we've been over this a lot, but......are you sure you're a Liberal? :p
 

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Yeah, it's not enough to say that Zehaf-Bibeau was likely burdened with mental health issues and as such that makes his possible radicalization irrelevant. They are both important, certainly. But I think that in terms of what domestic policy actually has the scope to mitigate, mental health and its relationship to poverty and the criminal justice system should still be focused on. It was a problem before Zehaf-Bibeau and it's still a problem now, but with a little more focus.

Islamic radicalization in Canada needs to be addressed through a combination of domestic and foreign policies. Particularly, our police forces need to continue working with Muslim communities as full partners in identifying and attempting to reform potentially radicalized persons. Additionally, we need to try to understand how poor social opportunities may lead to ideological radicalization in general. And perhaps most importantly, we need to drastically rethink our relationship with the middle east. Foreign policy in that region should be based around development and the political support of local moderate groups (and as much as possible, without appearing to infringe on the agency of locals). Militarization is not the answer, and it never has been.
 
provincial governments need to remove subsidies and abolish tax credits to religious institutions.

historical churches who need preservation should be under the umbrella of heritage sites.

But as for organization and religious groups themselves, all subsidies and tax credits should be completely removed IMO.

like this you can guarantee that no fraudulent cults gets public money or tax exemptions and that no radical extremist place of worship gets public money or tax exemptions.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Yes, the true injustice of this is that all the secret Radical Muslim Mosques that are breeding super-terrorists are not paying their tax bills. Great solution to an obviously serious problem.
 

Boogie

Member
provincial governments need to remove subsidies and abolish tax credits to religious institutions.

historical churches who need preservation should be under the umbrella of heritage sites.

But as for organization and religious groups themselves, all subsidies and tax credits should be completely removed IMO.

like this you can guarantee that no fraudulent cults gets public money or tax exemptions and that no radical extremist place of worship gets public money or tax exemptions.


what-the-hell-are-you-talking-about-gif.gif
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Municipal politics is pretty disappointing. Except for maybe mayoral candidates in larger municipalities, most of the people running have unimpressive resumes. In terms of platform, everyone says the same things on their WordPress sites and junk mail. (Keep taxes low and fix roads etc). And when they do get into office they don't really seem to do much except come up with silly plans to build water parks and such, while the roads continue to crumble. At least the mayor goes around trying to get people to come invest in Windsor. School board trustees especially seem to be just whoever ran for the most part.

Perhaps we would be better served by getting rid of most positions in municipal politics and just letting technocrats run things. It seems to me that at best things would be better run, and at worst things would be just about the same. Transit specifically seems like something that would be much better run by technocrats in a city like Toronto, who would do some research and come up with a plan and stick with it. As opposed to having all the plans changed every time there's a new mayor. At some point a consistent plan that actually ends up being carried out is better than constantly coming up with new plans that never actually get done, regardless of how much "better" the new plans might be.

Thoughts?
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Municipal politics is pretty disappointing. Except for maybe mayoral candidates in larger municipalities, most of the people running have unimpressive resumes. In terms of platform, everyone says the same things on their WordPress sites and junk mail. (Keep taxes low and fix roads etc). And when they do get into office they don't really seem to do much except come up with silly plans to build water parks and such, while the roads continue to crumble. At least the mayor goes around trying to get people to come invest in Windsor. School board trustees especially seem to be just whoever ran for the most part.

Perhaps we would be better served by getting rid of most positions in municipal politics and just letting technocrats run things. It seems to me that at best things would be better run, and at worst things would be just about the same.

Thoughts?

This is already essentially the case; municipal city planners are hired at most cities with 6-figure populations or more and have more day-to-day influence on the city's direction than the mayor or council. Typically elected city councils are mostly about big picture issues like traditional heritage versus development, accountability for major contracts like sporting contracts, and citizen grievances. And unless Quebec differs, all other provinces essentially provide for municipal elections as a matter of statute and have emergency provisions for the province to suspend municipal government (IE municipal governments have no constitutional right to exist or reserved powers, and Canada is better considered as a bi-level federal state than a tri-level federal state)
 

Mr.Mike

Member
This is already essentially the case; municipal city planners are hired at most cities with 6-figure populations or more and have more day-to-day influence on the city's direction than the mayor or council. Typically elected city councils are mostly about big picture issues like traditional heritage versus development, accountability for major contracts like sporting contracts, and citizen grievances. And unless Quebec differs, all other provinces essentially provide for municipal elections as a matter of statute and have emergency provisions for the province to suspend municipal government (IE municipal governments have no constitutional right to exist or reserved powers, and Canada is better considered as a bi-level federal state than a tri-level federal state)

I can see why we'd want to have some elected positions at the municipal level, even if cities are already largely run by civil servants. Still, "quality" seems to be quite low for most elected positions. I guess I would be in favour of getting rid of elected trustees, or perhaps having only 1 per school board, and then also having fewer wards. With the increased competition for positions, and the ranked ballots that are coming, perhaps we could have a more impressive set of leaders at the municipal level.
 
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