[Digital Foundry] Metal Gear Solid Delta - PS5/ PS5 Pro Tech Review - A Beautiful UE5 Remake With Frame-Rate Issues
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Analysis Review
Sybrix
Member
Fact of modern gaming now unfortuantly.
Companies want these games out asap, this means games are pushed out at a barley playable state and get post release patches to rectify. The pre-order bros who are many in here are responsible. As long as pre-ordering numbers are high then this crap will continue.
I'll get MGS Delta but at the time performance is patched.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I think it's a little overblown. The game is still playable, albeit without great performance. It's not like it crashes or runs at 10fps. You can play it from start to finish and have an enjoyable experience.
Cyborg
Member
where
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
it was 30% in games that didnt get a PS5 Pro patch. So basically games that were backwards compatible and not ported.its around 30% in real scenario which is realy sad but lets no criticise so hard mid gen update and wait for real "monster" ps6 with 160 bit bus and 160w power consumption
the games that did get a PS5 Pro patch were actually getting closer to the 50-67% increase in tflops. We saw this in Callisto protocol post patch, and some other games that easily had 50-60% higher average resolution. Brazil pixel has some comparisons that i used to get the pixel counts.
The 45% figure by Cerny was on average because of the lack of memory bandwidth plaguing some of these games. Also the cost of PSSR is very high. Something people really got upset at me for before launch lol
The base PS5 already hits 2850*1564p in best case scenario. Thats what? 4 million pixels? PS5 Pro can easily do around 3200-1800p. They just have to stick to the same settings, framerate and remove PSSR. This whole fascination with 60 fps and PSSR is moronic. 1800p reconstructed using TSR would be virtually identical to DLSS reconstructed from 1440p. indistinguishable from native 4k. Probably even better.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Lol, do you wanna go back to the 90s and 2000s to see how Perfect Dark dropped to the single digit fps or how beloved OOT ran at 24fps? How about FF1 with 60fps menus, 30fps cameras, and 15fps animations?
Games on consoles have better performance than ever before. It's just that we've had performance standards introduced in the past few years. Before that, people on consoles didn't give a shit. Performance and resolution were the concerns of PC gamers.
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TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Yes.
Diego Brasil
Neo Member
It's a mixed bag, those things which are behind objects get resolved quicker.
But for the overall picture, Pro is inexplicably blurrier than even the base PS5 at mid and distance range for geometry and foliage.
This comparison of your image is of a part where he's still; in motion, the sharpness is greater on the Pro.
I took these two images below of him in motion.
Besides that, the motion artifacts on the PS5 are garbage... lots of artifacts... for me, that's the worst part.
PeteBull
Member
Lets wait bit longer to see pc version, if its as terrible as console version(supposedly xbox series versions run similary bad), then:
Team Andromeda
Member
PS Pro just can't get a break LOL
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Sometimes we should just blame incompetent devs, but gaf has a soft spot for developers. They would rather blame suits like Herman and Phil, engines like UE5, instead of simply realizing that games are made by developers who are so retarded they use FSR frame generation to take 30 fps games to 60 fps. So blind they dont see PSSR becoming a shimmering mess at launch. So incompetent that they had to drop resolutions to 540p.
Nothing will change until gamers start blaming devs instead of publishers, engines and console architects.
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Madserb2023
Member
There is an assumption that developers wouldn't use the engine if it was that bad. I worked for a company that stopped using it's existing software knowing it was better because of training reasons.
Venom Snake
Member
Lets wait bit longer to see pc version, if its as terrible as console version(supposedly xbox series versions run similary bad), then:
What does Cerny have to do with the pc version?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeah but it shouldn't be the case regardless.
Not to mention all the above happens with Pro running 7, 8 FPS worse in the outdoor areas. And the indoor areas, where it runs better on the Pro, that's where the PSSR coverage is poor with the shimmering and flickering.
sncvsrtoip
Member
30% more power can(and should) increase res more than 30% as increasing res doesnt increase geometry etc
Developers are using UE5 because, even though people complain about performance, they are still buying those games. If the first games released on UE5 had been rejected by users, things would be completely different.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, this reminds me of when ND boasted about making the PC port of TLOu1 themselves but then started @ing Iron Galaxy on twitter after the PC port turned out to be a disaster leading everyone to blame iron galaxy for another bad port.
viveks86
Member
Both valid points and I agree. I'm just trying to find a solution for the here and now. This game has literally gone from "wait for review and buy" to "Reviews are good, but pro version sucks donkey balls so don't buy" for me. If I had a toggle, I could be enjoying the game. Haven't played the original and now I probably never will... Not a big deal as there is a ton of stuff I still need to play, but a simple toggle would have solved it for me.
Could be a useful way for Sony to validate game certification as well. If a significant number of people are using the toggle for the game, which triggers some kind of auto-report, Sony can remove the Pro Enhanced tag for them and threaten to pull the game from store if they don't fix it.
Having said that, yes. I've never understood what the certification process really entails. Stuff like this should be caught pretty easily and doesn't need end users to be the ones doing QA.
roosnam1980
Member
hellblade 2 is really good in that regard
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Just play at 30 fps. It's a fairly high resolution well above 1440p.
or get a PC. I have not had many issues with games this year. I think oblivion was the only one that was complete garbage. before that Silent Hill 2 which had some of the worst fucking stuttering in apartments ive ever seen but was mostly fine outside of that.
Gonzito
Gold Member
Papito you dont know already that I have a beefy pc? At this point you should remember. I remember your pc, you have a 3080
My comment is not about the performance but about the fact that instead of enjoying games launches, we have constant drama, complaints and shit going on.
I miss times where things were simpler
simpatico
Member
Performance actually scaled properly?
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I am a major metal gear fan… and even I am looking at this now like wtf do I do?
There's no way Sony should be ok with a pro version running worse than a base ps5 version for an exclusive title. They paid good money to this dev I bet or Konami, and are not getting their return.
I'm going to wait for patches. Just focusing all in on Shinobi deluxe edition.
Kacho
Gold Member
They don't care. The console is there for people who want the extra oomph. The shit results from developers is just a market reality. Less effort is put in when the install base is so small.
Brigandier
Member
PS5 Pro was such a waste of time and money I wish I never bothered.
I think it's Decon from Days Gone.
viveks86
Member
Hellblade 2? It seems to be possible... They really should do a presentation on it. May be it all works only because it is extremely limited in scope.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Well, how do you determine what arbitrary resolution they should hit? UE5 games like MGS and Silent Hill 2 are packing a lot more detail than say something cross gen looking like astro bot or spiderman. of course it will be more expensive.
I do agree that they should simply fail the certification but you cant exactly force developers to meet targets their machine may or may not be able to match. DS2 for example runs at 1440p on the base console and 1440p on the Pro. But with better image quality thanks to some other reconstruction technique. Same resolution, same framerate, and yet it looks vastly better. So it would fail your better resolution and better framerate test despite looking better.
For some reason, devs are just struggling with the PS5 Pro more than they ever did with the PS4 pro. Im guessing its because there was only one mode back in the day so simply taking a 1080p 30 fps mode and making a 4kcb or 1440p 30 fps mode was far easier than taking 2-3 modes and then trying to make them all work while integrating a brand new and highly ineffective PSSR solution. That's the only reason why i suggested they send engineers because everyone from Bloober to Ubisoft Massive and now konami has struggled with it.
Again, had they done literally nothing, you wouldve seen better resolutions in both modes. Or better performance.
roosnam1980
Member
the original release had solid performance on PC and xbox , the enhanced edition is even better with more options .
That's for sure, it is (by far) the best looking game of this gen but also barely interactive, it cannot be replicated for more traditional games
viveks86
Member
Well... I guess we won't know until witcher 4 is out. But given how CDPR's games have launched in the past, I'm losing hope.
Or chinese developer xyz magically figures it out for souls-like #1923123. Lol
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol sorry I have a really bad memory. my wife hates that about me. i dont remember any of the good times we've had lmao.
Didnt you enjoy Mafia recently? I agree that internet outrage kinda ruins everything, but ive been mostly happy with a lot of the latest releases thanks to my PC. yes, ive had to drop to 30 fps at times, but whatever, i am also running a 5 year old GPU so i have to make sacrifices to get the best visuals.
It's just noise man. Ignore it. the game looks absolutely phenomenal. Even better than Mafia and Expedition 33. PS5 gamers (non pro owners at least) can play at 30 fps and have an incredible visual experience that will easily top Death Stranding 2 and the upcoming Ghosts. you and I can play on PC and brute force our way into experience yet another gorgeous looking next gen game. One of many this year. Lots to like. Just ignore the drama. Right now UE5 is enemy number 1 and gets a lot of clicks on youtube, and is used for engagement farming on twitter. Game looks magnificent and thats all that matters.
Killer8
Member
Should just post the entire rant.
I mean Brugaga does raise an interesting point.
If the console is being marketed as the 'Pro' version, it implies that the target audience is technically adept enough to be able to change settings and probably has some knowledge of what they actually do. Given how much crossover is happening with PC at this moment in time, I think the time is right to just say fuck it and starting put graphics options into Pro console games.
If you want to just set it and forget it, you'd buy the base unit, but if you want more power and control at your fingertips, you go Pro. This also helps to future proof games somewhat for the inevitable PS6. Devs wouldn't need to release patches, the user could just jack the settings up and turn off any limits.
This game don't looks better than Death Stranding on a PS4. In fact Horizon West looks better on a PS4 pro this game on a PS5
Shifty1897
Member
It doesn't have to be a high bar to clear, just something that says "if you have a mode targeting 60fps, you need to hit 60fps most of the time". "If your game can't hit at least 900p all the time (I believe this is the minimum resolution for PSSR to work), you need to change things until it does.
Sony is the market leader when it comes to third party developers, than can set reasonable minimum standards to enforce for games on their platform. They can even allow devs to submit exceptions for when the game's art style is a low resolution/low frame rate look to mimic retro games.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Stevie Wonder in the house everyone!
Madserb2023
Member
Well yes, but that's not why it is literally being used. It's due to proliferation. Excel is no different. There are lot's of systems that are simply better and easier to use but they just aren't common. An engine can not be both easy and hard to use but that's the claim. The learning curve claim is silly because why would you drop an engine to then have a learning period that costs money. Once a certain system hits a critical mass like Excel you end up using it. Excel is simple but it just breaks and messes up but we use it because it's just what's used. There are however vastly better bespoke software out there without the bugs
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Lmao performance mode continues to be a waste of everybody's time. Just play at 30fps, it literally looks better and runs better.
Beautiful. where are these from?
The game at least looks great
Beautiful. where are these from?
simpatico
Member
Yeah that's my thought. Wonder how much of what's on the screen is clever smoke and mirrors. I want to see a game with Skyrim or Battlefield scope run "normally" on UE5 before I concede that there is not an inherent flaw in the engine.
LordOcidax
Member
Blame the devs not the hardware.
blue velvet
Member
ILLEGALIZE UNREAL ENGINE 5
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I definitely agree that there needs to be standards. PSSR especially should have an internal resolution standard. It looks fantastic in TLOU2, Demon Souls, and other Sony games because the resolution is almost always 1440p (DLSS/FSR quality).
But Cerny himself said that the data shows 75% of gamers play in performance mode and there is no way PS5 pro is getting to 1440p internal resolution in 60 fps modes that are already running at 720p. Not with a 45% increase in GPU power. In fact they would need a 200% increase in GPU power to get there. And 100% just to get to 1080p which actually is fairly decent in FSR4 whenever Cerny gets around to implementing it into PSSR. But again, the GPU is only 45% more powerful so they will have to settle for 900p like you said and thats still not enough with PSSR or even FSR4.