Hot Coldman
Banned
Whatever theory it is could probably tie back into The Enemy of the World, too.
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Doctor Who 50th Anniversary |OT| Splendid Chap, All Of Them
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CloudyTuba
Member
That's what I was thinking. That would be neat.
WrenchNinja
Member
Watching it again, it really should have been Amy in Claras place.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Been a while. Is that the 'Salamander' story? How would that work?
This Spring
Peter Capaldi
and
Peter Capaldi
star in:
Doctor Who - SON OF THE ENEMY OF THE WORLD
Hot Coldman
Banned
No idea, depends what RTD's plan was with the 12/Frobisher/Caecilius connection.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I just want Jack to be in next season in some capacity. At least we got a mention in the special.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Could have had Kate Lethbridge Stewart as the companion for all it mattered
I guess this thread is more or less the official Doctor Who thread, so I hope you don't mind me asking. My girlfriend and I want to start watching Doctor Who from series one on, where Eccleston plays the Doctor. However, the first few episodes (we're at the invasion of London), while good in story telling, have real bad effects, which hinders us from enjoying the experience on a whole. Because of this we decided not to watch every episode but rather the most important ones. Now I'd like to ask you: Which episodes from series 1-4 are an absolute must to watch? I'd be really glad if someone could answer me this! Thank you very much.
They're not that bad, surely.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
The show is (or should be) about adventures, not overarching plots so if the effects are bothering you to the point that you're going to only watch "story important" episodes I would suggest you spend your time on a different programme.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Idk, S1 is pretty rough. Not unwatchable personally, but people have different thresholds. Takriel, I'm sure people will provide or link lists for you, but I'll just add that the production values pick up as the series goes on, so depending on how much you enjoy the show there might not be any need to skip episodes from S2 onwards. However there are a few episodes which people will recommend you skip for other reasons.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Considering the general lack of knowledge of the mystical land known as 'Foreign' in 60s Britain you're probably right.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Doctor Who is only meant to be watched alone and to fawn over the companions.
The bad effects and British camera work is apart of its charm so it may not be for you.
1 and 2 probably have the worst effects. Watch it all though.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
For the size of their television budget, and the period of time (2005) they're not that bad at all, really.
The show tries to not rely too much on its effects to put it over, either.
But if the stories aren't carrying enough of the weight for you that the mid-level effects are seriously detracting, then yeah, maybe bail for now. Try it again in a couple years or somethin.
Series 1
Rose
Dalek
The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances
Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways
Special: The Christmas Invasion
Series 2
The Girl in the Fireplace
The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit
Army of Ghosts/Doomsday
Special: The Runaway Bride
Series 3
Smith and Jones
Gridlock
Human Nature/Family of Blood
Blink
Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords
Series 4
Partners in Crime
Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead
Midnight
Turn Left
The Stolen Earth/Journey's End
Special: The Waters of Mars
Special: The End of Time
This is probably the bare minimum. I've left in a couple episodes that were companion introductions even if they weren't that great. You don't necessarily have to watch both of Runaway Bride and Partners in Crime.
Well, I DID watch them all some time ago, and personally had no problems with the quality of the early series. However, now that I want to introduce my girlfriend to the show, while rewatching series 1 I just couldn't help but notice that these early episodes are not indicative of the show's later quality. My girlfriend liked the silliness in some, but not so much in other ones. It's kind of a hit-and-miss really. So I decided that I would show her the most important episodes in order to best avoid this.
Thanks for the list, Htown! I can't wait to let her see some of these gems!
Thanks for the list, Htown! I can't wait to let her see some of these gems!
If the effects bother you that much, don't watch at all. Or maybe start from the Eleventh Hour (start of season 5) which is a good second jumping off point.
Doing something like only watching what Htown listed (although that's a good list of the barest minimum none the less) removes the adventure aspect of the show. The over arching plot is only a small part of it, with episodic stuff being the main draw. Also almost every episode contains either character development or a small plot point that will come up again anyway.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Honestly, that's not an effects-driven problem. The show is kind of hit-and-miss in seasons one and two (and as Lexi's pointed out, 3, too. And hell, 4 has some problems, as well). Has she said "I don't know if I'm feeling this, can we just watch the good ones?" or are you pre-emptively attempting to cut the crusts off?
I dunno, maybe leave the show to her, to run through or abandon at her will. I've found that's always the best test of whether a show is going to stick or not. Not the group setting, not with someone sitting next to you or nudging you in the ribs when a cool moment is coming up. But if it works when it's just you and the story playing out on the screen in front of you.
WrenchNinja
Member
Doctor Jesus is the worst shit.
Doctor Dobby was pretty bad too.
I know some people disagree with me on this, but I'd consider just starting at season 5, which is where Matt Smith (the most recent Doctor) starts. The show gets new showrunners there, and it's a great jumping on point. It just looks a lot more professional from that point onwards and, in my opinion, the storyline and writing just gets a lot better. I recently started to try and get my girlfriend into Who as well. She knew some basic things (the basic format of the show, what Daleks are, what regeneration is), and I just started her off at season 5. She really liked the show (she was already a fan of Sherlock, which is made by the same showrunners as DW from season 5 onwards), but because she really wanted to see some David Tennant episodes (the favorite Doctor of some of her friends, and she'd seen him in the 50th anniversary special, which we watched with some friends) she went back to series 2. She couldn't stand the difference in quality. Don't get me wrong, there are some great episodes in the earlier seasons, but they've aged quite terribly, outside of some gems. It's a matter of preference, but most people I know only became fans of the series from series 5 onwards. It's when the show first started getting really popular in the US as well, and not without reason I think. Of course, I think Gaf in general might disagree with this. In some cases Gaf's opinion is the exact opposite of mine/the people I talk to in real life (for instance, the people clamoring for the return of Jack on this page, who I think is played by a pretty terrible actor, and the love of Gaf for episodes like Rings of Akhaten, which is Matt Smith's worst by far, IMO). Oh well, different tastes, and all that.
I'd suggest giving Matt Smith a shot. You can always go back to earlier seasons if you really want more. In general, you can start at the beginning of any Doctor (including those from the classic series) to see which Doctor fits your tastes most.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Season Five really is a great jumping on point. Kind of a perfect storm: Awareness was building and building in America throughout Tennant's run. Then "The Eleventh Hour" drops and it's super-accessible, it LOOKS great, it's got a wonderful score, and it manages to sum up why the Doctor is so goddamned FUN to watch, all in less than an hour.
Season Five ended up being the best of Smith's run, and likely the best overall season of New Who, period. So it's hard to argue against just hopping on there, and moving backwards/forwards once you've got a decent idea how this show actually works.
Season Five ended up being the best of Smith's run, and likely the best overall season of New Who, period. So it's hard to argue against just hopping on there, and moving backwards/forwards once you've got a decent idea how this show actually works.
I agree. If your mission is to get your girlfriend into Doctor Who, then Season 5 would be a great spot to start if the low-budget stuff is a problem. The earlier seasons can be a lot more campy and look way low-budget (and, personally, I like Smith the most out of the three nuWho doctors...). Season 5 starts with a new doctor from the start and hardly any old characters are used again (I think River is the only one), so it's a good point to jump into it from a story continuity POV as well (since there is hardly any continuity). Then, if she becomes a Doctor Who geek, maybe try watching all of S1-S4 afterwards. Maybe she'll tolerate the low-budget look more after already becoming a bigger fan than while she's still being introduced to the series.
Eh? I like Eccleston the least. His acting isn't that good (he takes the enthusiasm of Doctor Who a bit too far, overacting it badly) + the writing is pretty weak in comparison to the latter seasons, which just makes the problem worse.
You guys have given me lots of good advice, thanks for that. Because I remember a few key story points and stand-out episodes of seasons 1-4 so fondly, I really want to show them to my girlfriend. However, the problem is, like some of you already suggested, that the show is best experienced as an adventure, with as many episodes seen as possible in order to build up emotional bonds with the characters. So starting off with season 5 would really be a good idea, seeing as the production values improved significantly from then on out. I really wanted to let her experience the magic of the RTD era though, because it contains some real gems. And starting with season 5 might affect her enjoyment of earlier seasons. So yeah, I guess for now we'll continue to watch season 1 and try to avoid bad episodes. I'll let her decide if she wants to continue watching once season 2 rolls around.
Sounds good to me. I just think jumping to a new place (almost) every week is a great part of the show. Starting off at season 5 is really the best for both that, and getting more "up to date" storytelling and effects.
*Nit-pick mode activate* actually The Eleventh Hour is a little over an hour.
LOL. I thought that was just me.
Monado Blade
Member
Imagine, if you fast forward the Curator a couple hundred years, he'll look similar to Doctor Dobby...
JonathanEx
Member
I do like that's how the Doctor would be if he aged (not just old, but shrinking), yet Matt's Doctor is currently over 400 years old and it's not hugely visible on his face.
The 'main' doctor who thread OP includes a pretty good rundown of recommended episodes from the first few series.
Although it doesn't include School Reunion, and is therefore Wrong.
Any other Nu-Who companion would have had a bigger emotional impact, really. All the big moments she had so far felt unearned to me. I love Jenna but I still have problems with Clara being paper-thin. Most of the time I feel like the character is just doing what the plot asks of her and barely takes anything seriously. She's like a cartoon. I can't imagine any other companion laughing at the Doctor hanging on the Tardis like that and not moving a finger to help (that entire intro was nonsensical though). I really, really hope that in series 8 we get some insights on her personal life to giver her some depth because that's one of the best things about the companion dynamic. Give her a roommate, a friend, a family, a love interest, something. We haven't even seen her home yet.
The synopsis for the Christmas special mentions she being at a family dinner, and that sounds like a step in the right direction. I also hope they keep her as a teacher as that can open some interesting possibilities. She actually has some personality aspects that can be explored further in interesting ways as long as the writing allows them to flourish. This may sound like a rant but it's just something that I really love about Who and I feel that it's lacking since Clara came into the picture.
I sound like a broken record, but Space Clara and Clary Poppins would have been better. I wonder how much of the above is due to the change of the original plan of using Clary Poppins and the Victorian setting as a hub, with scenes there at the end of each episode. That would probably give me what I want. I guess they didn't have the means/time to translate that to a contemporary setting, I don't know. Both incarnations would have been more interesting companions by default though.
Probably making it up as they go along but are laying the ground work to pretend they don't.
APZonerunner
Member
In fairness, the Master does say "if we suspend your ability to regenerate" - so I always took that to mean that presumably regenerative energy is fizzling and keeping him relatively 'young' and delaying physical ageing of that body at a molecular level all the time. The Master suspends that, and that's when he turns into a naff CGI creature.
Htown's list is good, but I'm going to add to it and give reasons for why. I've marked a few as optional in the description, and they're ones that I just think are an interesting watch. I've bolded the ones I'd say are actually required.
Series 1
- Father's Day (Without this there's no real emotional impact to certain major Series 2 events. It's also one of the finest episodes of Who ever on an emotional level, even if the CGI creature is 2005-awful.
- School Reunion (It's essentially a companion reintroduction. If you're a complete virgin to the show, it involves the Doctor meeting Sarah Jane Smith, a companion he used to travel with in the 1970s era of the show. It's really interesting as it looks at what happens to these people once he drops them off and stops travelling to them. How badly does such a thing effect a life? A vital link to the past of the show and a major turning-point lesson for both the viewer and Rose. Sarah Jane's return was so successful she was granted her own spin-off, and she returns several times throughout the run of modern Doctor Who until her real-world death. If you're so inclined the Tenth & Eleventh Doctors both did an episode of her spin-off show, which is a more kid-aimed show about her fighting aliens on Earth. They're good episodes, though, and are worth a watch.)
- Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel (Required viewing for the finale, basically.)
- Love & Monsters (Optional. Really interesting episode from a writing perspective. The alien in it is naff, though, and was designed by a 10 year old for a competition, the prize to get their work in the show. This episode is one of the great opinion splitters; some would say it's some of the finest pieces of writing to grace the show, some would say it's a disgusting piece of shit - which is exactly the reason to watch it! One of Who's greatest weapons is sheer variety. Oh, and -- The Doctor is barely in it.)
- The Shakespeare Code (Optional, but -- It's just fun. Witches, Shakespeare! It's one of the best, most convincing historical sets they've done. They also filmed in the Globe Theatre, which is a pretty big deal - not many TV productions are allowed. Plus this list is really lacking in history-based episodes.)
- 42 (Optional again. Only on the list because it's a bit different from anything else they've done, even if the real time mechanic falls flat.)
- The Fires of Pompeii (Amazing episode. No idea why some don't rate this. The ultimate demonstration of the 'Fixed Point' logic that becomes vital later in the Tenth Doctor's life and doubly vital in Series 6 for the Eleventh. Plus, thirteenth Doctor! Amy Pond! This episode is the killing fields for future casting.)
- Planet of the Ood (Depends - how much did you like the Ood in The Impossible Planet? If you did, their backstory is quite lovely even if the episode itself is fairly run of the mill.)
- The Unicorn & The Wasp (Optional. Another episode recommended purely because it's an opinion splitter. The enemy is a giant wasp - though at this point at least the CG is well-realized - and it's an Agatha Christie murder mystery in a big country mansion... with the real Agatha Christie, trying to do that Doctor Who thing and explain away the mysterious amnesia she suffered after her husband left her. It's not many people's idea of Doctor Who, but I recommend it because it's different - it's a pastiche on Christie's novels with some fun comedy material for Tennant to sink his teeth into, which he never gets to do. Again, it's very markedly different from the average "monsters! run!" format of the show, so I recommend it.
- Voyage of the Damned (Optional. Between Series 3 and 4. Recommended for similar reasons to Unicorn, as while it's not everybody's idea of what Doctor Who should be, there's not another episode like it at all. It's a 75 minute disaster movie, basically, aired on Christmas Day. It also remains the single highest rated episode of New Who ever, which should be worth something!)
- Planet of the Dead (Definitely optional. It contains one 3 minute scene which is vital for the rest of the Tenth Doctor's tenure, though, the prophecy of his death. It's not a bad episode, just rather boring and standard. Doctor Who by the numbers. They did go to Dubai to film a red London bus in the middle of the desert, though, and it's the very first episode they shot in HD. It's a very dry episode (no pun intended), but is very pretty, if that means anything to you. Not bad by any standard, mind.)
Hot Coldman
Banned
I don't like the idea of skipping episodes once you've found a starting point
there's only 14 of the buggers per series
there's only 14 of the buggers per series
APZonerunner
Member
Or this. If the problem is with dodgy effects, I'd probably do the skipping for Series 1 and 2 and then from Series 3 on watch everything. You could probably watch everything from Series 2 on, even, as I can't think of many naff CGI moments in that series. Takriel says they even liked the storytelling in Aliens of London/World War Three, so by skipping anything you will be missing good stories. I'm the type of person who sees a lot to love in a story like The Lazarus Experiment or The Sontaran Stratagem - it bums me out for instance that the first Sontaran one might actually see/get to know as a character is Strax, who at this point is fun but also the antithesis of everything Sontarans stand for. I think it's funny, as with the pitch at Christmas from Moffat's interviews being "all the baddies turn up," if there's a Sontaran Battle Fleet that turns up and tries to off the Doctor, I think a lot of more recent fans are going to be shocked about what the species is actually like, that they're not all cute wise-crackers.
There's only two actually bad episodes of New Who, anyway: Fear Her and The Curse of the Black Spot, both of which are just incredibly shit for very different reasons.
Hot Coldman
Banned
and even Black Spot is watchable, albeit it's an episode you'll never want to rewatch
only Fear Her is "turn this shit off" calibre, oh and Love & Monsters but that's pretty divisive as it turns out
only Fear Her is "turn this shit off" calibre, oh and Love & Monsters but that's pretty divisive as it turns out
Agreed. Pick a later starting point if you must, but after that keep going.
APZonerunner
Member
Fear Her & Black Spot are interchangeable for me. Fear Her is an awful plot but Rose and the Doctor are both brilliant/lovely in it (plus it has that amazing TARDIS materialization gag - can't believe that was wasted in this putrid episode), but Curse of the Black Spot is the reverse. There's a lovely plot bubbling away beneath the surface, but all the characters in it, the Doctor, Amy and Rory included, are just insufferable and ridiculous in it for no good reason. They're the inverse of each other.
I'm in the camp that thinks Love & Monsters is one of the most lovely pieces of writing ever to be done for the show, and Marc Warren is amazing in it. That said, it's a shame about Peter Kay in that awful prosthetic, and I could've done without the pavement blowjob. If those two things had been executed differently it'd probably be in god tier for me.
Yeah, even the weaker episodes have stuff to like about them. I find that after you get in the Who groove any bad effects and shit plots/resolutions become less of an issue than they'd be in other series.
Future Foundation
Member
Elton was adorable, Elton and Ursula were both adorable, Elton and Jackie were adorable, LI'N'DA were adorable. What the fuck happened?!? It felt like I was watching two different episodes. If that was some odd meta thing that Davies did - the episode is fun while we're with LI'N'DA and they're having fun, then goes straight to hell when Peter Kay comes in - then I applaud him. I don't think that was the case.
APZonerunner
Member
I think a chunk of it is to do with him having an idea for an episode without the Doctor (Elton and the LINDA stuff) and then having to marry that to the creature designed by the 9 year old kid for the Blue Peter competition. It wasn't just the design the kid birthed, it was the ability, too, so I'm sure that was difficult.
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Provisional Christmas day scheduling:
2:00 Top of the Pops
3:00 The Queen
3:10 Toy Story 3
4:45 BBC News
5:00 Still Open All Hours
5:30 Doctor Who
6:30 Strictly Come Dancing
7:45 Call The Midwife
9:00 Eastenders
10:00 Mrs Brown's Boys
10:35 Michael McIntyre's Showtime
Who getting fisted a bit there. Could've done with being at least an hour later. Time was it used to lead in to Eastenders... Bloody BBC. It's still 15 minutes later than the insane timeslot from last year, at least. Also, an hour as good as confirmed, then. Bit of a bummer when Tennant had a 90 minute finale (and that was one of two parts!) but expected.
-----------------
Provisional Christmas day scheduling:
2:00 Top of the Pops
3:00 The Queen
3:10 Toy Story 3
4:45 BBC News
5:00 Still Open All Hours
5:30 Doctor Who
6:30 Strictly Come Dancing
7:45 Call The Midwife
9:00 Eastenders
10:00 Mrs Brown's Boys
10:35 Michael McIntyre's Showtime
Who getting fisted a bit there. Could've done with being at least an hour later. Time was it used to lead in to Eastenders... Bloody BBC. It's still 15 minutes later than the insane timeslot from last year, at least. Also, an hour as good as confirmed, then. Bit of a bummer when Tennant had a 90 minute finale (and that was one of two parts!) but expected.
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