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[APZonerunner]

The other night watched Doctor Who that appeared on Fox so long ago, got to say it was good stuff. It really felt in touch with the newer stuff that would later come out. The Master having snake like abilities and a form was bad, like his later Palpatine resurrection bad but otherwise it was well done. The Doctor was likeable, the cast was great and the story good.

It's really a pity the guy who played the Doctor hasn't been welcomed much, he was great in the role.

The funny thing about the Master is that he's always had these shit abilities and over-the-top resurrections, not just under RTD or in the movie, but even in classic Who. He's a bit of a crap villain, really. That's why Moffat went on the record back before RTD revived him saying he always thought he was rubbish, though obviously quieted himself to be diplomatic once the character was revived. Also why I'd be surprised to see him under Moffat, purely because of that.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

He should see that as a challenge surely! Make the Master a force to be reckoned with.

 

[APZonerunner]

He should see that as a challenge surely! Make the Master a force to be reckoned with.

Honestly, I think the "he's not evil, he's mental" thing was an attempt at that, and is the same thing Moffat did with Moriarty, just executed more camply. I'm not sure what else you can do. For him to be properly dark I think there's too much of him established as otherwise to truly accomplish it.

The weird thing about the Master is especially later on in old Who he's not doing anything patently evil in a sense - he's trying to trip up the Doctor, setting traps and doing things to stoke their rivalry, and even on occasion helps him against greater enemies. He seems more interested in being an asshole to the Doctor than anything else, which has very limited scope. His world-ending schemes, while often true opposite Pertwee's Doctor, quickly fade. Even in the RTD take he takes over the world (twice!), for a reason that, in his mind, is good - he wants to restore Gallifrey (first by making a 'New Gallifrey', then by bringing them back) and he sees Gallifrey as more important than Earth. Fair enough. He wants to be their leader, too, but that's because he's nuts, again. So... he's interesting.

Other than all that, though, Moffat just seems less interested in having human enemies, because they're less cool/scary for the kids. The RTD era had a lot of pure human bad guys, but Moffat's have all mostly been aliens of some form or another, which is a fair editorial choice, really. It's a lot less exciting for a kid in the playground to pretend to be the Master than it is for them to pretend to be a Cyberman or Weeping Angel, right? Unless you make him able to shoot lighting from his hands, but then... he's even more naff.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Catching up on the show I do like Smith a lot, but the thing Tennant was better at was selling the whole Time Lord angle and how he was the last one. He's very good at being serious when needed.

They kind of shy away from Time Lord stuff in series 6 until this episode I just got to.

 

[infiniteloop]

This week

The Science of Doctor Who | BBC Two at 9pm | Thursday November 14th
Professor Brian Cox takes an audience, with the help of celebrity guests, on a journey into the wonderful universe of The Doctor, in a specially recorded programme from the lecture theatre of the Royal Institution of Great Britain. Brian reveals the science behind the spectacle and explains the physics that allows Doctor Who to travel through space and time.

Children In Need | BBC One 7.30pm | Friday November 15th
Rumoured to be clip from Day of the Doctor

The Night of the Doctor | BBC Red Button, from 7:30pm | Saturday November 16th
"The 50th Anniversary features Matt Smith, David Tennant and a mysterious incarnation played by John Hurt. Only one appears in this mini episode, The Night Of The Doctor. But which?"
The mini episode, which runs for 6 minutes and 54 seconds, has been classified PG by The British Board of Film Classification.

 

[paradox121]

He should see that as a challenge surely! Make the Master a force to be reckoned with.

I think the problem with the Master, and to an extent the Daleks, in the modern era at least is there's not much you can do with them in the limited 45 min time slot. I'm way too young to speak to this with any actual evidence, but I have to imagine watching some of those six-part stories back in the day must have had a grand, epic feeling where you genuinely did feel like there was a struggle. Nowadays the Daleks pop up, hatch a plan, and are defeated in under an hour.

For me, the perfect way to revitalise the Master is to make him a semi permanent feature across a whole season or even two. If they come swinging out of the gate with Capaldi, give him a Master to play against, and then have a season where he's constantly one step ahead of the Doctor, messing up and setting up adventures for him over the course of the season, you may actually feel like this guy's a genuine threat. The Saxon arc had its merits but naturally you didnt actually know it was the Master until the end, at which point Last of the Time Lords happened and everything went to poop.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

Anybody notice that the trailer for the The Science of Doctor Who has a theme variation that I don't think we've heard yet. Listen closely, the melody and bassline are completely different from the Series 7b variation.

And also, will it be on BBC America?

 

[infiniteloop]

And also, will it be on BBC America?

Yup, 18 November 2012, BBC America, 10pm.

Lots of dates and listings in the OP.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Davros(Reality Bomb) as a Villian felt really crazy/evil. I want a Master similar to that. The issue is writing a strong story for him. The concept of using the last living humans as slaves to enslave humanitys past was pretty dark.

The Master is a difficult villian. I never get the feeling he wants to kill the doctor, He always seems like best friends on opposits sides of a conflict type deal. Some mutal love exists because they are the last of their race.

I'd like something with the master getting a tardis back and abusing the time stream for his own power. Something along the lines of the doctor noticing small changes in historical events that slowly grow and eventually the master ends up being a significant power in the universe.

 

[Dryk]

Catching up on the show I do like Smith a lot, but the thing Tennant was better at was selling the whole Time Lord angle and how he was the last one. He's very good at being serious when needed.

They kind of shy away from Time Lord stuff in series 6 until this episode I just got to.

I dunno, Tennant seemed way too human at times too.

The Master is a difficult villian. I never get the feeling he wants to kill the doctor,

He doesn't. They have the Joker/Batman dynamic.

 

[Axiom]

I think Simm's Doctor worked so well in terms of character and performance (if not writing) was due to the fact he was very much directly a foil to the current personality of The Doctor.

Capaldi doesn't have an established persona and style in the role yet, so I think he needs at least half a season before they should think about bringing in a Master.

 

[APZonerunner]

He doesn't. They have the Joker/Batman dynamic.

It's shit, though, because the Joker also wants to just cause chaos and hurt people who aren't Batman. The Master isn't really that full-blown evil. He never wants to go that far, he'll only hurt people whose suffering aids his greater goal, usually. So that immediately makes him weaker.

 

[Exterminieren]

The Master's at his best when he allies himself with some far superior force, ends up way over his head and has to rely on the Doctor to bail him out. Any attempts to make him into a credible villain are totally doomed to failure.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

The idea of Cumberbatch being Smiths Master visually made so much sense. They had a real vibe.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Whaaaaaaaa? The 10th's TARDIS interior is inside the 11th's TARDIS? (Watching the episode where the James Earl Jones asteroid steals the TARDIS).

EDIT: Dammmmmmnn
Planet dude - "Fear me, I've killed hundreds of Time Lords"
Doctor - "Fear me, I've killed them all."

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

Whaaaaaaaa? The 10th's TARDIS interior is inside the 11th's TARDIS? (Watching the episode where the James Earl Jones asteroid steals the TARDIS).

EDIT: Dammmmmmnn
Planet dude - "Fear me, I've killed hundreds of Time Lords"
Doctor - "Fear me, I've killed them all."

Probably my favorite episode of Who, ever.

 

[Fred Norris]

The Doctor's Wife is a perfect episode.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

The Doctors Wife is a perfect episode. So amazing.

 

[Trike]

Whaaaaaaaa? The 10th's TARDIS interior is inside the 11th's TARDIS? (Watching the episode where the James Earl Jones asteroid steals the TARDIS).

EDIT: Dammmmmmnn
Planet dude - "Fear me, I've killed hundreds of Time Lords"
Doctor - "Fear me, I've killed them all."

All of the old console rooms are supposed to be inside of the TARDIS, if I recall correctly. In Classic Who and the comics they visit other ones.

 

[Magwik]

He did!

Spoiler

In the Name of The Doctor

 

[Slowdive]

Edit: Updated. Christmas special spoilers/hints from GB:

More Christmas spoilers:

Spoiler

The Doctor loses his leg? Walks with a crutch/pegleg, regenerates from old age?

Also "It seems the Doctor won't be fighting this endless. Bitter war alone. He's apparently fighting side by side with the Mainframe and the Silence!"

Whaaat. I wish I wasn't so tempted to read these

 

[Quick]

All of the old console rooms are supposed to be inside of the TARDIS, if I recall correctly. In Classic Who and the comics they visit other ones.

The TARDIS keeps a backup of old consoles.

In the original script, I believe Amy and Rory were to stumble into one of the classic series consoles, but budget constraints prevented that.

 

[Exterminieren]

This Christmas Special sounds batshit crazy.

Spoiler

If that titbit about the Doctor and the Silence being on the same side in the war is true, though, I will be chuffed to bits. Absolutely perfect reversion of expectations, in a way that actually makes logical sense.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

More Christmas spoilers:

Spoiler

The Doctor loses his leg? Walks with a crutch/pegleg, regenerates from old age?

Also "It seems the Doctor won't be fighting this endless. Bitter war alone. He's apparently fighting side by side with the Mainframe and the Silence!"

Whaaat. I wish I wasn't so tempted to read these

Spoiler

I can see how the Valeyard could be born from this. And I'm not at all surprised he will be fighting with the Silence. The Silence's major motive was protecting the Doctor's work from being undone.

 

[Worthintendo]

The Doctor's Wife is a perfect episode.

It would have to be my favourite episode ever.

That one line about the TARDIS not taking him where he wants to go, but where he needs to go, just sums up everything about Doctor Who perfectly.

 

[Exterminieren]

CAUTION: SPECULATION OVER POTENTIAL CHRISTMAS SPOILERS

Spoiler

The thing about these spoilers about the Silence is that they cast an entirely different light on A Good Man Goes To War in particular, and the Moffat era in general. Perhaps the Silence were trying to kill him earlier so they wouldn't end up being dragged into the stalemate for whatever reason?

 

[Future Foundation]

More Christmas spoilers:

Spoiler

The Doctor loses his leg? Walks with a crutch/pegleg, regenerates from old age?

Also "It seems the Doctor won't be fighting this endless. Bitter war alone. He's apparently fighting side by side with the Mainframe and the Silence!"

Whaaat. I wish I wasn't so tempted to read these

How fucking long is this special gonna be?

 

[DrForester]

I wonder if at any point in the episodes production they considered getting David Bradley to do a guest bit as #1.

 

[acheron_xl]

I wonder if at any point in the episodes production they considered getting David Bradley to do a guest bit as #1.

I've thought they may do this for some time. After all, why commission the construction of an old TARDIS set if you're not going to get every last bit of awesome out of it?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I can't see Moffat making that decision. I get the sense he'd think it off-putting.

 

[Fred Norris]

I've thought they may do this for some time. After all, why commission the construction of an old TARDIS set if you're not going to get every last bit of awesome out of it?

It makes total sense. There was even a set report if I remember correctly of

Spoiler

shooting in front of the junkyard and the school where Ian worked.

And I don't want to believe those spoilers. Sounds very depressing.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Even if they didn't want to use Bradley/Grant as One/Susan there could've been reason to fit the console room set from Adventure into Day somehow. They probably didn't, but it would've been neat.

 

[DrForester]

I've thought they may do this for some time. After all, why commission the construction of an old TARDIS set if you're not going to get every last bit of awesome out of it?

Star Trek recreated the original Enterprise bridge set twice for a TNG and DS9 episode.

But it would be nice if they made use of the sets and Bradley. Even the other actors would be nice. I know I was one of those who was surprised and excited when Susan was mentioned by name in the last season.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If almost everyone involved with the series came to regard the casting of Hurndall as the First Doctor as a bad idea, why would they repeat that "mistake" with David Bradley?

 

[acheron_xl]

Star Trek recreated the original Enterprise bridge set twice for a TNG and DS9 episode.

But it would be nice if they made use of the sets and Bradley. Even the other actors would be nice. I know I was one of those who was surprised and excited when Susan was mentioned by name in the last season.

I can't see any good reason they wouldn't. I mean, with one more stab at it, they could make a recast 1st Doctor an anniversary tradition in itself. And Bradley seems a ton better than Hurndall.

 

[DrForester]

If almost everyone involved with the series came to regard the casting of Hurndall as the First Doctor as a bad idea, why would they repeat that "mistake" with David Bradley?

Because Bradley looks great in the set photos and I was under the impression that buzz has been positive about his portrayal.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

If almost everyone involved with the series came to regard the casting of Hurndall as the First Doctor as a bad idea, why would they repeat that "mistake" with David Bradley?

I think, in this case at least, it would be different since Bradley is already playing Hartnell (and playing Hartnell playing the Doctor in the bits of the docudrama about actual filming) so there's an extra layer of "legitimacy" to it in that sense. You're not just recasting the First Doctor, you're using the actor you've already got who has recently played the actor who played the First Doctor (to apparently good effect).

I understand them not wanting to do it, but I think this was pretty much the one time it ever could've been pulled off.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I dunno. I don't like it, and I don't get the sense anyone making the show currently would like it, either. I mean, I could be wrong (there's evidence of it all through this thread, after all) but I don't think it's gonna happen, or even that it should.

edit: I guess it'd be like people saying Ben Affleck should have played Superman in "Man of Steel" because he did a good job of playing George Reeves in "Hollywoodland"

 

[Dryk]

Whaaaaaaaa? The 10th's TARDIS interior is inside the 11th's TARDIS? (Watching the episode where the James Earl Jones asteroid steals the TARDIS).

EDIT: Dammmmmmnn
Planet dude - "Fear me, I've killed hundreds of Time Lords"
Doctor - "Fear me, I've killed them all."

The best part about that line is that if you look at his face he doesn't seem to really mean it as a threat. He's just sick of House bragging about how great he is and essentially retorts with "I don't give a fuck who you think you are".

 

[Exterminieren]

Because Bradley looks great in the set photos and I was under the impression that buzz has been positive about his portrayal.

He's not Hartnell, though.

Recasting Doctors is absolutely one of the things that Should Not Be Done. It was a mistake when it was done for The Five Doctors, and it'd be a mistake today.

 

[User 100115]

The idea of Cumberbatch being Smiths Master visually made so much sense. They had a real vibe.

 

[Exterminieren]

Woah.

OK, if you don't want the Christmas Special and the conclusion of the Eleventh Doctor's arc spoiled, avoid Gallifrey Base's spoiler section like the plague.

 

[BocoDragon]

He's not Hartnell, though.

Recasting Doctors is absolutely one of the things that Should Not Be Done. It was a mistake when it was done for The Five Doctors, and it'd be a mistake today.

I question this rule.

Personally, this fan is all for recasting previous Doctors as long as they are reasonably convincing.

But they have to be convincing. I disliked Cumberbatch as Kahn, for example, because I thought he didn't look or act anything like the original character.

Bradley has so far past the test....

 

[Mariolee]

Woah.

OK, if you don't want the Christmas Special and the conclusion of the Eleventh Doctor's arc spoiled, avoid Gallifrey Base's spoiler section like the plague.

I can't handle myself. Have you read the spoilera?

 

[APZonerunner]

CAUTION: SPECULATION OVER POTENTIAL CHRISTMAS SPOILERS

Spoiler

The thing about these spoilers about the Silence is that they cast an entirely different light on A Good Man Goes To War in particular, and the Moffat era in general. Perhaps the Silence were trying to kill him earlier so they wouldn't end up being dragged into the stalemate for whatever reason?

Isn't the point that

Spoiler

The Silence were trying to kill him before he went to Trenzalore, because if the GI went into his timestream and eliminated everything it wouldn't just remove him from the future, but all the good he did in the past? They knew that was going to happen and thought it better to kill him before that and risk the future being fucked than let him go and see everything get fucked.

This has been taken by me and many others to be the status quo for ages, so the idea of him working with the Silence makes sense within that idea.

 

[infiniteloop]

Woah.

OK, if you don't want the Christmas Special and the conclusion of the Eleventh Doctor's arc spoiled, avoid Gallifrey Base's spoiler section like the plague.

Yup. Sounds pretty crazy. Don't think it really fits in this thread though.

 

[Slowdive]

Yup. Sounds pretty crazy. Don't think it really fits in this thread though.

Where should we discuss it? Series 7 thread?

 

[Future Foundation]

Special anniversary issue of DWM out this week:

The special 50th anniversary souvenir edition features 32 extra pages, a special celebratory mini-magazine, 12 Doctor Who art cards and nine audio drama downloads.

My favorite piece is this special 1964 "One Year Anniversary" mini-issue they put out for the show:

 

[Slowdive]

^ So bought.

 

[APZonerunner]

50th pics from the Telegraph, same ones that showed up in scans before. Production pics, so not stills from the show but shots of actors talking to the director, blocking, etc. Spoils the fact that certain characters appear together, though, so click at your own risk:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02728/DOCTOR_WHO-47top_2728239c.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02726/DOCTOR_WHO49top_2726976c.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02728/DOCTOR_WHO51bot_2728232c.jpg

And not previously released:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02728/DOCTOR_WHO47bot_2728229c.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02727/DOCTOR_WHO51top_2727039c.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02727/DOCTOR_WHO49bot_2727042c.jpg

Yes, that last one appears to be

Spoiler

A control panel from John Hurt's TARDIS!

Quotes from the article --

It’s not just about honouring the past, though we do do that. I was aiming for… how about the most important day of the Doctor’s life? The adventure that actually has an impact on him. I think most of his adventures make an impression on everybody else – but he probably forgets them 10 minutes later.

We pick up, as it were, months later. So you’ll get an update on what Clara’s been up to, a little bit about what the Doctor’s been up to. And then, as will tend to happen with multi-Doctor stories, things go a bit haywire.

It will feel, at the beginning, like we get three different adventures with three different Doctors. And these connect, to become the same adventure. Very, very roughly, I suppose, and with apologies to Charles Dickens, it’s the A Christmas Carol structure – there’s the ghost of the past, the present and the future. There’s plenty of inter-Doctor rivalry and, as the Doctor’s 50th-birthday present, we’re establishing a whole new Doctor right there in front of you.

What’s really interesting is that Steven has managed to invent something new about the character, which is wonderful after 50 years. And it’s a testament to the format, and to the idea, and to the nature of the character and the show.

Tidbits from the Telegraph article - two individual lines of dialogue and set/scene descriptions from what is described as a 'pivotal scene' of the 50th. Real spoiler shit (but stuff Moffat has obviously signed off on releasing/publishing in a national newspaper before broadcast, as they allowed the Telegraph to be on set this day):

Spoiler

They are all standing in a sort of interplanetary shed. It has a vaulted wooden frame, walls of wattle and plank, and a floor of dirt and twigs punctuated by golden glitter. This, apparently, is the scene for a great Doctor Who moment. 'It’s in the middle of a strange desert – out of time, out of place,’ says the show’s production designer Michael Pickwoad (whose father, it transpires, was an actor called William Mervyn, who appeared as a guest star in the 1960s). 'So it’s like a barn. But it’s got a slightly sort of Hobbit-like quality – is it in the imagination, is it real, is it not? It’s not quite like any barn I’ve ever been into.’

Smith’s and Tennant’s Doctors have each arrived in the space-barn in their own Tardis, with Tennant’s a slightly muckier shade of blue. At the other end of the barn stands another device: a red jewel, like a huge ruby, sits at chest height on top of a metallic plinth, which is decorated in burnished silver and gold. As the actors block the scene, their hands keep reaching as if to press down on the jewel.

As filming finally gets under way, the dialogue is loaded with moral ambiguity. Since that first, fleeting appearance, Hurt’s character has been described as a 'dark Doctor’, a hitherto suppressed incarnation of the show’s central character. 'You were the Doctor on the day it wasn’t possible to get it right,’ Smith’s Doctor says, trying to comfort Hurt’s, whose face is etched with inner pain.

As the three Doctors gather around the jewel, it also seems that pressing it down would have terrible consequences. 'What we do today, we do not out of fear or hatred, but because there is no other way,’ Tennant’s Doctor says portentously.