Doom: The Dark Ages |OT| Mod City
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Mortisfacio
Member
It won't. Path tracing is too demanding for consoles, even the pro.
amigastar
Member
Really? Thats odd, i have a 4070 and Path Tracing will probably run on it (1080p)
The PS5 Pro is supposed to have the power of a 4070, so why not?
Connificent
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Just reached the cosmic realm. Its cool at times but enemy encounters are becoming a slog. I only tend to use the combat shotgun and chainball. Both maxed out. So are the shield and auto gun.
vaibhavpisal
Member
What difficulty are you playing on? If it feels too easy after chapter 6, make sure to increase it.
Game feels good only when you have to use everything you have.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I just started on the standard one. Hurt Me Plenty I think? But yeah, that's good advice. I haven't died yet on Chapter 4. I might go up 1 but I'm not too worried about it. The chapter breaks and collectibles seem perfectly designed for replaying it so I might just go up 2 tiers on another run. We'll see.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
It is?
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
There's some tracks that didn't make it into the official release like the one on the Hellbreaker level with bits that gives some old school Doom vibes(IMO
).I recorded and make my own cut for the upload:
Mortisfacio
Member
DF made that claim, but most games have shown to be on par with 4060, not 4070. Also it's an AMD GPU, not NVIDIA.
All that aside, pretty sure iD said the path tracing update is PC exclusive.
amigastar
Member
4060 you say? Thats disappointing honestly. 4060 is about 30% slower than 4070 from what i see.
Now i'm not so sure GTA VI will run 60fps on the PS5 Pro.
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CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
Holy shit.There's some tracks that didn't make it into the official release like the one on the Hellbreaker level with bits that gives some old school Doom vibes(IMO
I recorded and make my own cut for the upload:
WHAT A SICK TRACK.
HOW IS THIS NOT IN THE FINAL GAME?!
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
It is in the game, just not on the official soundtrack.
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PurePlatinum
Member
Just finished it this afternoon. It is easily the weakest of the three games, but it's still pretty good. Played on PS5 Pro
Positives
Overall it feels incredibly rushed and focus-tested. I wonder if Hugo Martin has been largely absent from the marketing because his hand was forced by the marketing department to dumb his game down. It feels like they were told to make it way less hardcore than Eternal due to them knowing the primary audience would be on GamePass. IDK something just felt off about this one from the get-go.
If I had to score them, I'd say Doom is a 8.5 or 9, Eternal is a 10, and TDA is a 6-7. It wouldn't be so painful if it wasn't a direct follow-up to Eternal, which is one of the best shooters ever made.
Positives
- Great core gameplay loop. That hasn't changed at all.
- Refocus on melee helps to keep things fresh.
- Shield stuff is all fun, and I like the parrying mechanics
- Best arsenal out of all the games.
- Strong sound design and effects.
- Boss fights aren't as bad as people say. They were solid.
- Open-zone design is a complete misstep. all of the core levels end up feeling like re-skins of exactly the same thing. Very boring and repetitive feeling levels stem from this problem.
- Blurry and dark visuals. The decision to force RTX on is completely baffling, when the art-style of the game doesn't benefit from it at all. It's too dark and medieval to gain much from RTX...and now like more than 50% of PC players can't even boot it because you require RTX? What a baffling decision this was.
- Giant mech levels are a total miss. It's a total gimmick that's fun for exactly one-minute when you first do it. Adds nothing.
- Dragonflight levels are another total miss. The dragon feels like it flies at like 35MPH. Adds nothing to the game.
- No hub-world to display all the collectibles you get. This was one of the coolest parts of Eternal and they just decided not to do it again?
- Zero sense of humor in the way the story is presented - I don't actually think the story is so bad, but the way it's presented in cutscenes feels so "Anti-doom".
- Pacing feels off. By about 30-40% of the way through the game, you've seen every kind of enemy they're going to throw at you. By the end you've been fighting similar groups of enemies for maybe 10 hours with nothing new? It gets very boring and repetitive, with very few of the new demon designs offering much in the way of the "combat chess" introduced by the previous two games.
Overall it feels incredibly rushed and focus-tested. I wonder if Hugo Martin has been largely absent from the marketing because his hand was forced by the marketing department to dumb his game down. It feels like they were told to make it way less hardcore than Eternal due to them knowing the primary audience would be on GamePass. IDK something just felt off about this one from the get-go.
If I had to score them, I'd say Doom is a 8.5 or 9, Eternal is a 10, and TDA is a 6-7. It wouldn't be so painful if it wasn't a direct follow-up to Eternal, which is one of the best shooters ever made.
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GriffinCorp
Member
I just finished the game. It was good. I jumped right into 2016 and I miss the Shield/parrying, that added a lot to DA.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Finished it.
Overall 2nd best in new trilogy for me, slightly behind Eternal.
Gameplay loop is tight, no one does it better than id IMO. Its a contender for best action gameplay ever, pretty easily I would say.
I feel its weakness is in the way its structured. Its similar to Eternal as in game is basically consecutive maps with 4-5 major encounters, hidden secrets and mild exploration. But that structure never becomes obvious in Eternal. Here it becomes obvious whenever I came across a big area there has to be a major battle.
Also battles are quite tense, and game is quite large. I did took some breaks to finish it. Xbox clock is showing 33 hrs.
Overall pretty satisfied with it. Especially since I was sceptical of its gameplay coming from tighter areas of Eternal. id went relatively large areas but did not fumble.
Early GOTY contender for me. Looking forward to getting into art book now that I have finished it.
Overall 2nd best in new trilogy for me, slightly behind Eternal.
Gameplay loop is tight, no one does it better than id IMO. Its a contender for best action gameplay ever, pretty easily I would say.
I feel its weakness is in the way its structured. Its similar to Eternal as in game is basically consecutive maps with 4-5 major encounters, hidden secrets and mild exploration. But that structure never becomes obvious in Eternal. Here it becomes obvious whenever I came across a big area there has to be a major battle.
Also battles are quite tense, and game is quite large. I did took some breaks to finish it. Xbox clock is showing 33 hrs.
Overall pretty satisfied with it. Especially since I was sceptical of its gameplay coming from tighter areas of Eternal. id went relatively large areas but did not fumble.
Early GOTY contender for me. Looking forward to getting into art book now that I have finished it.
amigastar
Member
It's on my GOTY list as well, for sure.
jmiller180
Member
It probably won't because of CPU constraints more than anything. If we are lucky the Pro will get a 40fps mode for people with 120hz TVs.
Judge Magister
Member
I don't remember getting games ads on my desktop..
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
That's not an ad. That's an order pussy. Become the doom slayer and go crush demon bussy.I don't remember getting games ads on my desktop..
Rip and tear until it is done!!!
Judge Magister
Member
Wait, it's trying to sell me Game Pass.
I really don't remember getting this ever, even with Indiana Jones for example. Windows keeps getting better, what can i say.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
The slayer doesn't need you to invest $70, he just needs a small monthly gamepass investment to help fist and flail these abominations where they came from.Wait, it's trying to sell me Game Pass.
I really don't remember getting this ever, even with Indiana Jones for example. Windows keeps getting better, what can i say.
Schmendrick
Banned
....someone doesn`t know that RTX is just NVIDIA`s branding, hasn`t understood what RT does and hasn`t looked in the Steam Hardware charts for at least 5 years.......
Sorry but that part is just horrendous nonsense.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
RTX is in doom eternal. On the ps5 pro version I played after dark ages it's amazing how they implemented it there.
The largest issue with Ray tracing in this new doom is it doesn't have the kind of art direction or use of lighting that eternal does. There's far less reflective surfaces to see yourself in, far less metallic surfaces, and next to no neon light sources anywhere. It's dark, raining, and the way the enemies do not have glowing pieces prevents the game from looking better.
Even with hdr fixed this game is not just as vibrant or detailed as eternal was to look at. Some called it cartoony and goofy in eternal, but I prefer the use of color. I like having distinct biomes and art direction. It also makes no sense that the sentinel worlds in eternal make great use of the blue flame and blue lights, are well lit, etc and then similar architecture and worlds in dark ages is just too dark.
The lack of consistent glory kills also makes noticing enemy features in full details impossible because this game puts more dudes on screen but turns them into blurry messes.
I prefer quality over quantity.
Edit: One extra note that Hugo Martin is full of shit on. This game has more enemies on screen than any other doom game. That's slightly a lie. For example when an arena has say 10-15 guys holding a shield and are 5 in a group. Those aren't enemies you deal with one at a time. If you have a jump you can wipe out an entire wave of grunts, but shield guys function as one enemy because with the shield throw plus bounce they all die in one hit instantly. They are an armor piñata.
They sacrificed more detailed enemies for waves of blurry shit on screen with big orbs flying at you to parry. Less is more.
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MikeM
Member
Sounds like a church donation pitch.The slayer doesn't need you to invest $70, he just needs a small monthly gamepass investment to help fist and flail these abominations where they came from.
Bring on the Church of Rip and Tear.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Schmendrick
Banned
RTX is NVIDIAs proprietary branding for their RT product lines and sponsorships, it is not synonymous with the technology that is Raytracing.
You just dislike the artstyle.
That has nothing to do with RT at all.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Let me rephrase it this way:
If I can't see any immediate benefits of this tech no matter the naming, what it does, etc, and your previous game looks better, then somewhere along the way you fucked up.
I can identify Ray traced reflections easily on and off in games.
RTGI is global illumination so I just assume better lightning. If it isn't a better lit game than eternal then it's shit use of it.
Schmendrick
Banned
RTGI allows for realistic dynamic lighting. No more glow in the dark objects, no more fucked up ambient occlusion, everything is truly grounded in the world if the RTGI has a high enough resolution and developers can change things in real time instead of spending hours on lightmap baking that break in the game the moment something moves.
It is impossible without RT to have dynamic elements correctly lit unless they are in direct light and with the map sizes we have now light baking has also pretty much become unfeasible due to the necessary heaps of extra data.
But again, the use of RT has nothing to do with your issues with the visuals, that`s all the artstyle.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Makes the devs job easier ok, but did it benefit the consumer in anyway? "Well you got the game 1-2 years sooner"
I gained nothing from this tech. It doesn't look better in anyway from other doom games or other games who aren't using this tech. This just sounds like it helps devs push out games faster. Cool maybe spend that extra time creating 22 great levels and not 11 good ones. Maybe don't make the game a blurry mess on consoles. Spend some time fixing hdr before release. Maybe launch with as much content as your previous title.
Nah man. This shit did nothing for no one. Especially considering its lack of sales.
Do manual lighting next time and bake a better looking product. The art style is not the issue- i like the theme and settings here. It's just slop design to not illuminate things nicely.
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Schmendrick
Banned
You are harping on basic and necessary tech while simply generally being at odds with the creative vision Id-Software had here. RT has nothing to do with anything in this game that annoys you.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Ok. Then what should I be complaining about? What is the correct tree?
Game:
-Looks worse than other two entries
-Needs higher requirements than most games to even run
-Has less content than prequels
-Sells shittier
-Reviews shittier
-Costs more for the product
I don't need to understand the nuance of RTGI. I barely understand Ray tracing reflections but when I flick it on or off I can immediately as a moron understand and see what the benefit is.
If RTGI here turned on helped the devs finish and make a game faster great, but at what cost? Because it's objectively the worst game of the 3 from a variety of metrics. I also can't point to RTGI when playing to go "see that's why we need this. Look at what it does for ME the player. I want this tech in more games."
If it's leading to more lazy devs and shoving out products faster that are worse games then they can keep it.
This isn't meant to be an argument to you or RT or RTGI. I'm well aware I'm a dumbass when it comes to this stuff, but I don't see any benefit for me that this was forced in the game or that this is a benefit for games in the future. Maybe it's just in the wrong hands with id or they didn't use the tech well enough to save time but in turn benefit the player with the best looking and most jam packed Doom game they could've made.
Cheers I'll stay retarded.
Schmendrick
Banned
Id Software`s Creative Team.
It is and looks far more advanced on a technological level, even though Id really....really lacks in the asset quality department. That you don´t like the artstyle is still a personal taste problem.
Requiring at least an 8 year old budget card as a 2025 AAA game is not "high" at all.....
so...what exactly does that have to do with RT again?
If you don`t understand that moving objects in shadows usually don´t glow, objects in the real world throw shadows on themselves etc then I can`t really help you. Proper RTGI turns a 2d picture into 3d. We´ve had so many good examples in the tech threads here and god knows how many hours of side by side videos are on youtube.
RT had to be used to accomodate the game design, not the other way around.
Now we`re completely drifting into nonsense. Is a salt shaker responsible when a chef vomits into the soup?
It was not forced...it was necessary to do what they wanted to do. It is just a tool. You can`t blame the tires for the design of a car`s grill......
I honestly have no idea why we`re even talking about any specific tech here when your issues with this game clearly lie with its general design decisions.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Fair enough.
You know what would be cool? If they went back to Eternal and gave us the option to turn on RTGI to see it in that game. Since my issue is art direction then implementing it into that game or 2016 would let me see the real benefits.
I'd love to see that and path tracing added to Eternal as well.
Also what tech threads here showcase this in side by sides etc? I'd like to see it so I can understand its benefit from seeing it.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Eh if they want to use their Ray Tracing Tech they can give us a RT Edition of Doom 3. I'd buy that for $80 easy.
amigastar
Member
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Yeah you are right. $50. Since they obviously won't fix the Shotgun.
Schmendrick
Banned
That´s not exactly an easy thing to do as raster works with loads and loads of fake lights and baking which is not so compatible with real time light simulation. That would require serious development effort.
Partial RT implementations like reflections are a very low hanging fruit in comparison.
Not sure I´d expect much from the PT in ID-Tech games. Something like assassin`s creed shadows running on Ubisoft`s own Anvil engine looks decidedly better than Indi with PT enabled f.e. despite "just" using RTGI. That this engine also supports virtualized geometry certainly helps too, though.
The "Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen" thread alone has ~700 pages of tech talk with examples. The faster choice would probably be to go on YT though.
sth like this f.e.
And ofc there are the more technologically focused videos explaining the tech in detail but I think that`s something you should probably postpone a bit.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I wanted to mention even with all of its faults I do love this game.
The simple truth is even the worst DOOM game is better than the best other FPS games have to offer.
And the biggest truth is aside from indies there is no SP big FPS anymore. Halo is dead, Quake is dead, half life is dead, etc. It's all MP focused titles.
For better or worse DOOM is our last bastion of bad ass video game protagonists, and an amazing SP fps to play.
The simple truth is even the worst DOOM game is better than the best other FPS games have to offer.
And the biggest truth is aside from indies there is no SP big FPS anymore. Halo is dead, Quake is dead, half life is dead, etc. It's all MP focused titles.
For better or worse DOOM is our last bastion of bad ass video game protagonists, and an amazing SP fps to play.
calistan
Member
Finally finished it. This game absolutely rocks, easily my GOTY so far. I loved mangling enemies with the shield then giving them a dose of super shottie at point blank range.
I don't think I've played anything that gives you such a feeling of badassery. The way the character is super fast, yet so weighty that he makes weaker enemies burst if he lands near them. Blasting the flesh off the bigger enemies is satisfying too.
I'm going back through the early levels to mop up the last collectables, and it's pretty cool just tearing through it with all the upgraded weapons.
I don't think I've played anything that gives you such a feeling of badassery. The way the character is super fast, yet so weighty that he makes weaker enemies burst if he lands near them. Blasting the flesh off the bigger enemies is satisfying too.
I'm going back through the early levels to mop up the last collectables, and it's pretty cool just tearing through it with all the upgraded weapons.
amigastar
Member
Yeah, i reckon this game will be my GOTY also. I'm waiting for the path tracing update, though, before i make another playthrough but it's hard not to play atm.
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Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
The dragon is pretty fun. Surprised how much this feels like a Japanese game at times with the bullet hell, dragons, parries and perfect dodges. Game is a lot of fun. Starfox shit landing on bases then dismounting. Its great
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ResilientBanana
Member
No. unless you want upscaled 720p.
You said it, not me.
The hyper-criticism is odd. This game plays almost as intensely as any of the previous entries, and is literally the answer to all of the complaints people had about the previous entries. Everyone so badly wanted glory kills removed, and hated the inertia driven gameplay of eternal, so they removed both of those. They then provided a game very similar to the original where you had to dodge the enemies fire power, but did it in a fun way since everyone complained about the elements that were added to the previous entries. They then added dragons and mechs. Personally, I've found each game quite enjoyable and don't really understand any of the hate.
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Pimpbaa
Member
That's mostly true except for Doom 3. Half Life 2 was considerably better at the time.
calistan
Member
One thing I didn't figure out about that until quite near the end of the game is how the glory kills / finishing moves in Dark Ages only activate if you're in the right position relative to the enemy.
When you get the purple highlight to show an enemy is on its last hit, a melee attack from the ground tends to just give it a quick kick in the face. Leaping in and activating the finishing move from above gets you all sorts of extended animations, like hacking its head off, crushing its skull, or slowly bisecting it with the shield.
So I guess you can choose to have glory kills or not - and you get the same health / ammo drops either way.
BigLee74
Member
Well, I've went back for a Doom 2016 playthrough after finishing Dark Ages, and as much as I liked Dark Ages, Doom 2016 is the far superior game.
Dark Ages lost a lot of atmosphere going with so many open levels, the majority of which were quite samey.
2016 > Dark Ages > Eternal for me
But all good games that I really enjoyed.
Dark Ages lost a lot of atmosphere going with so many open levels, the majority of which were quite samey.
2016 > Dark Ages > Eternal for me
But all good games that I really enjoyed.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Nearing the end of chapter 5. Shit is really clicking for me. This is like Platinum Games and ID collaborated to make a balls to the wall FPS campaign. I love all the counters and parries. OST is pretty solid. I wish they went a little more Black Metal to set it apart from past games but it still has a few bangers.
[EDIT] Finished chapter 5. Honestly one of my favorite FPS levels ever. Flying around, counter dodging to destroy the cannons, seamlessly landing then infiltrating on foot and taking out a mini boss, then bust out and land mid air on the dragon again to fly around, boost chase other pilots, just a true pure fun action level. Great stuff. Also really appreciate how much the basic shield dash adds to combat. Can be used from far away and instantly closes the distance in a really fun way that pairs perfectly with the shotgun. Gore and muscle wasting on the enemies is great with chunks just falling off. Stacking classes of weapons on the X button as a toggle is also really smart.
[EDIT] Finished chapter 5. Honestly one of my favorite FPS levels ever. Flying around, counter dodging to destroy the cannons, seamlessly landing then infiltrating on foot and taking out a mini boss, then bust out and land mid air on the dragon again to fly around, boost chase other pilots, just a true pure fun action level. Great stuff. Also really appreciate how much the basic shield dash adds to combat. Can be used from far away and instantly closes the distance in a really fun way that pairs perfectly with the shotgun. Gore and muscle wasting on the enemies is great with chunks just falling off. Stacking classes of weapons on the X button as a toggle is also really smart.
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Just beat the 1st lvl after finally giving exp 33 a break. So far it feels like they slowed down the game dramatically to make it more accessible. In the previous dooms if you stood still for a sec you are dead. Gameplay is still sublime and so far enjoy the change of pace with the shield and parrying.
Graphics were a huge letdown. I dunno what's with alot of ms games having some clean ass graphics but the environments look simplistic and not detailed at all, I guess that's the trade off to get 60fps.
Graphics were a huge letdown. I dunno what's with alot of ms games having some clean ass graphics but the environments look simplistic and not detailed at all, I guess that's the trade off to get 60fps.
Orbital2060
Member
It looks like an oil painting come to life on SX, I wonder if its the path tracing + dlss 4 that does it? And some impresssions come from people playing on PC without path tracing that make the game looks simpler? Genuine question, because its one of the most sophisticated looking games I have ever played.