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[A Sentient Keyboard]

every hero sounds great when you describe them like that. hes a guy with damage spells that farms up the same items every game

I don't think that's true at all. It's a lot harder to sell people on phantom assassin, medusa, troll warlord, antimage, sniper, etc.

Gyro has two things going for him:

1. No passives, and only one 'straightforward' spell in calldown. His three other abilities are pretty unique.
2. Rocket barrage, his deal with the devil. It's an incredibly powerful spell that requires him to stand next to his enemies. That's a cool ability design, but especially so on a hero like gyrocopter, a squishy 1-position with no escapes, a target that the enemy can easily kill and will trade almost any of their teammates for if given the chance.

It's a super smart design, imo, and it differentiates him from the classic carry template (relying almost solely on rightclick damage boosted by passives and items, being useless at lvl 1 but terrifying at lvl 20+).

 

[Anbokr]

fuck gyro pickers

legit tho this hero has been the top dog carry for like 3 patches in a row now and got the equivalent of -1 dmg per soul line nerf on SF requiem, icefrog def. plays favorites. floats around 60% competitive winrate every patch too lmfao

 

[call_kotaku]

they just need to turn gyro into an anime girl

 

[1.09]

jk

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

fuck gyro pickers

legit tho this hero has been the top dog carry for like 3 patches in a row now and got the equivalent of -1 dmg per soul line nerf on SF requiem, icefrog def. plays favorites. floats around 60% competitive winrate every patch too lmfao

Ya he's almost never not been viable, him dominating the meta goes back all the way to TI3.

 

[Shuggananas]

nah i'm pretty sure gyro fell off super hard for like 2 or 3 patches at least

6.78 :
Increased Flak Cannon icon.png Flak Cannon cooldown from 20 to 30.

Hero was forgotten after that

6.83 :
Call Down icon.png Call Down

Increased radius from 450 to 600.
Reduced first rocket's movement speed slow from 50% to 30%.
Increased second rocket's movement speed slow from 20% to 60%.

6.84 :
Reduced Rocket Barrage icon.png Rocket Barrage cast point from 0.3 to 0.

5 patches, even 6 during which he was never picked

 

[misses bull]

Ya he's almost never not been viable, him dominating the meta goes back all the way to TI3.

I don't remember seeing gyro that much in 6.82/.83

 

[shira]

.

 

[SecretMoblin]

wow it seems weaver remains largely ignored this patch!

hero is overdue for a real buff imo!

buff weaver 2k15 a bit!


also buff silencer

 

[Artanisix]

i mean gyro is popular but he's hardly op

can understand if ur tired of him tho

 

[Shuggananas]

geminate attack now does 1/2/3/4 additional attacks instead of 1/1/1/1

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

I'm exaggerating but I'm really tired of seeing gyro getting picked, I find him terribly boring.

We need some more strength carries back in the meta, yes even Lifestealer.

 

[FACE]

bof4 was great, but i think bof3's gene system was so much cooler. At least i remember it being so with my 14 year old self. Plus i think bof3's story and final boss were much better than 4's

Only thing I remember from BoF 4 was abusing an xp glitch.

 

[Shuggananas]

I'm exaggerating but I'm really tired of seeing gyro getting picked, I find him terribly boring.

We need some more strength carries back in the meta, yes even Lifestealer.

the problem is most melee carries fucking blow

 

[bounchfx]

they just need to turn gyro into an anime girl

if we turned all of the heroes into animu lolis then dota could reach league numbers

dont underestimate the horny unsophisticated male demographic

 

[TUSR]

1000 year old dragons for everyone

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

the problem is most melee carries fucking blow

I'm not blaming the players I'm blaming the game

 

[Shuggananas]

? me too
melee carries suck, hard.

 

[misses bull]

I blame icefrog

 

[KingKong]

Icefrogs been dead for years, Gabe runs the show behind his mask

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

ye

your melee carry getting kited to hell sucks

 

[Sigismundo]

I'm wondering how you solve the problem of melee carries sucking without ruining the high mobility (because that is entertaining to watch and play).

 

[NormalFish]

i just started breath of fire IV on my Vita the other day

the game owns

BoFIV has amazing art design. I need to get back to it. On the final fight of Suikoden II, and then I'm playing through Persona 2 (my last play through I got turned out and confused quite a ways in, unfortunately) so it might be a while, but soon (tm).

 

[SecretMoblin]

?

Elder Titan is a melee carry that has a ranged initiation and is extremely broken atm. The fact people actively avoid playing him because they don't want to be tagged with 'disgusting ET picker' is a testament to his power.

 

[Shuggananas]

I'm wondering how you solve the problem of melee carries sucking without ruining the high mobility (because that is entertaining to watch and play).

rework one by one or add new items that benefit them (why the fuck was dragon lance created exactly ?)

 

[gai_shain]

rework one by one or add new items that benefit them (why the fuck was dragon lance created exactly ?)

dragon lance is trash anyway

 

[Anbokr]

I'm wondering how you solve the problem of melee carries sucking without ruining the high mobility (because that is entertaining to watch and play).

Do what Icefrog has continued to do every patch--buff the base stats on melee heroes (i.e. base damage, armor, MS, and/or hp regen). Makes them much more useful and sustainable in lane, and provides a suitable substitute (better base stats) for not being able to harass/kill from 600 range. Also, the winter wyvern nerf/rework really brought back many melee cores imo, that hero was fucking disgusting last patch. Number one physical damage/right-click counter that was also the #1 support hero in a magic damage/nuker metagame over several patches lmfao.. and reddit still has the gall to whine about her reworked ultimate.

And to begin with, not all melee cores are bad—PL, Doom, Alch, Ember, AM, Jugg, Lycan, DK, WK, Sven, Tiny, Void, and Ursa are all pretty good, and I know I'm probably missing some heroes there that I just can't think of right now. To be honest the only melee cores I feel are kinda bad right now are CK (questionable), Bloodseeker, Lifestealer, and Axe, and they aren't even THAT bad (still situationally useful except for bloodseeker). There are ranged heroes that are comparably unpopular—Medusa, Drow, Huskar, Morphling, Weaver etc...

I don't really see a general melee vs. ranged imbalance right now, just a standard some heroes are kinda better and more useful than others in a wider variety of situations compared to others imbalance.

 

[Eleuin]

LC needs another buff

 

[Sigismundo]

I swear to god you edited that post about eight times

 

[Anbokr]

I swear to god you edited that post about eight times

yeh i have a bad habit of posting something then rereading it and being like wait na lemme change this and rinse and repeat x3, i rly should just read my post a couple times before publishing YOLO

 

[BHK3]

Been spamming LC, she just really needs an attack speed buff or fix the weirdness of her passive still interrupting normal attacks instead of adding onto it. The weirdness goes away when you have high attack speed but early game I get it just so I can lifesteal and have some sustain. The heal on her W isn't the best and I feel the attack speed could be better. Ursa gets free attacks and Lifestealer gets a free bkb, all LC get is a mediocre heal. Sure like Abaddon it purges the unit but, like Abaddon, the cast range isn't that good. I hate getting blademail every game with her but I have to, which leaves me with power treads as my only method of attack speed. I feel like I just have to build her like tiny, get drums ac butterfly blink.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

And to begin with, not all melee cores are bad—PL, Doom, Alch, Ember, AM, Jugg, Lycan, DK, WK, Sven, Tiny, Void, and Ursa are all pretty good, and I know I'm probably missing some heroes there that I just can't think of right now. To be honest the only melee cores I feel are kinda bad right now are CK (questionable), Bloodseeker, Lifestealer, and Axe, and they aren't even THAT bad (still situationally useful except for bloodseeker). There are ranged heroes that are comparably unpopular—Medusa, Drow, Huskar, Morphling, Weaver etc...

How about Troll, LC, PA, ET, Centaur? I'd say at least 3/5 of those are definitely not good right now, and I'm still not convinced that Sven is good.

Definitely agreed on WW though, people whining that she sucks now remind me of people claiming that Gyro got overnerfed when they reduced his int by 3. She's definitely still playable.

 

[NormalFish]

Naix is as good as Sven fo sho

 

[sleverfunk]

So many invoker complaints in leddit.

Spoiler

leave my invoker alone!

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

S4 stans Haikyuu

Best player stays best

 

[A Sentient Keyboard]

Ya he's almost never not been viable, him dominating the meta goes back all the way to TI3.

When I started playing (between TI3 and 4), I remember he was considered a poor carry, like lifestealer. Also, Tusk and Undying where almost joke heroes.

I assume if you play this game for long enough you'll see all heroes fade in and out of popularity. They get buffed by freezyfrog, discovered by pros, picked up by pubbers, and eventually nerfed as people get sick of them. I'm just glad the latest patches had, in my opinion, interesting ones in the spotlight, like gyro and tusk.

yeh i have a bad habit of posting something then rereading it and being like wait na lemme change this and rinse and repeat x3, i rly should just read my post a couple times before publishing YOLO

this is me. you are me.

 

[Anbokr]

How about Troll, LC, PA, ET, Centaur? I'd say at least 3/5 of those are definitely not good right now, and I'm still not convinced that Sven is good.

Definitely agreed on WW though, people whining that she sucks now remind me of people claiming that Gyro got overnerfed when they reduced his int by 3. She's definitely still playable.

yeh troll/centaur feel bad. PA/ET/LC i dunno, i still enjoy playing PA/LC and feel pretty effective as far as pubs go. ET, I think is pretty solid and very effective at what he does, it's just there aren't as many TB/Morphling/AM's running around for him to hard counter lol.

 

[User 85168]

Not a traditional melee carry, but DK wrecks people at the moment.

Also, I don't know if y'all count him as a melee, but TB's pretty good.

 

[NormalFish]

yeh troll/centaur feel bad. PA/ET/LC i dunno, i still enjoy playing PA/LC and feel pretty effective as far as pubs go. ET, I think is pretty solid and very effective at what he does, it's just there aren't as many TB/Morphling/AM's running around for him to hard counter lol.

I'm surprised PA hasn't come back more. I'm still of the mind that this meta will be really hard carry focused, and she's quite popular. Perhaps not as strong as other carries, but I would still expect her to see a lot of play time. Hard to say how good she is, however. Kind of a situational hero in pro games especially.

 

[Hylian7]

rework one by one or add new items that benefit them (why the fuck was dragon lance created exactly ?)

dragon lance is trash anyway

Not really. It gives you something substantially useful before BKB, Orchid, or Butterfly. I like to think of it as using positioning to slightly make up a gap of protection temporarily before you get your real defensive item (BKB or Butterfly). There's plenty of heroes that build Orchid it's viable on too, such as Clinkz, Storm, etc. It's meant to be something you break down to make real items with.

 

[SecretMoblin]

anbokr better STAN

also (king) hylian was RIGHT reSpectHer is melee and slaying the lesser carries... when will Razor?

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

I'm surprised PA hasn't come back more. I'm still of the mind that this meta will be really hard carry focused, and she's quite popular. Perhaps not as strong as other carries, but I would still expect her to see a lot of play time. Hard to say how good she is, however. Kind of a situational hero in pro games especially.

The meta could be hard carry focused but it definitely hasn't shifted much yet. I'm expecting the next few pro tournaments to slowly shift the meta towards something(hopefully) but that'll take a while.

 

[shira]

S4 stans Haikyuu

Best player stays best

 

[Anbokr]

i just wanna see a 6.86c with invoker nerfs and then a solid LAN or two, we haven't really had truly good tournaments for 6.86 to develop and evolve just yet

 

[shira]

i just wanna see a 6.86c with invoker nerfs and then a solid LAN or two, we haven't really had truly good tournaments for 6.86 to develop and evolve just yet

Fuck yeah 11 days till Euro Regionals. That's going to be a bloodbath. Spirit, Empire, Liquid, Alliance, Navi, Vega all fighting for 2 spots. I expect Direct Invites announced any day now.

 

[misses bull]

Pudge is so fun with that new aghs upgrade.

Too bad hes gonna get gutted next patch

 

[t0rment]

hc meta? you guys have been drinking too much alcohol in your christmas parties. the meta didn't changed at all, it's the same as the 6.84 one, the only thing that changes are the heroes. that's why you'll continue to see tusk, gyro, ds, etc.

 

[Deltoid]

hc meta? you guys have been drinking too much alcohol in your christmas parties. the meta didn't changed at all, it's the same as the 6.84 one, the only thing that changes are the heroes. that's why you'll continue to see tusk, gyro, ds, etc.

learn 2 read m8, it's a prediction of where the meta will head once the patch matures

 

[Sigismundo]

learn 2 read m8, it's a prediction of where the meta will head once the patch matures

So are we gonna be using wine or cheese metaphors for this patch?

 

[Haly]

I enjoy the tannins and earthly tones of this patch.