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FANT4STIC 4OUR |OT| Fantastic 4/10

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Zoned

Actively hates charity
If GOTG can be so successful then there is every chance for F4 to be as good as it. It's just that dumb fucks at Fox don't understand the simple fact that F4 aren't superheroes and a team but scientists who explore, and stay and work together as a family.

Also Doom itself is just too big of a villain and they just can't show his awesomeness in the fuckin F4 origin story.
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
GOTG. Now if you wanted to see a comic book team-up movie that's a joy to watch, but also doesn't really earn any of its emotional beats, this is the movie to see.

To each his own I guess, but I strongly disagree with that statement. GotG is probably the best Marvel movie with respect to earning it's emotional beats, that's part of what made the film work so damn well. Had you said Man of Steel, or Thor 1 or Ironman 2 I'd agree with you, but not GotG.
 

G-Fex

Member
If GOTG can be so successful then there is every chance for F4 to be as good as it. It's just that dumb fucks at Fox don't understand the simple fact that F4 aren't superheroes and a team but scientists who explore, and stay and work together as a family.

Yes they are, the world's strangest superheroes.


X-men are also superheroes even though they're doing their damndest to not make them superheroes anymore for some reason.

Challengers of the Unknown aren't superheroes and are a team of scientists who explore.
 

Firemind

Member
Whatever... I still don't get why you'd introduce the main Villian of their entire saga and not make him actually create havoc in Earth. Going to a completely different planet eliminates any chance of survival and bigger action set pieces.
I don't get how Doom couldn't just vaporize the F4 with his mind since he did it so casually to the military personnel. The definition of plot armour.
 

EGM1966

Member
Despite all evidence saying otherwise.

It's clearly not impossible to do a good F4 film but I'd hazard that it is a challenge given production costs and the relative alignment of the core concept with current culture.

The core issues thus far IMHO, starting with the 2005 (? or whatever) film, are that Fox and the creative team simply can't seem to agree on a consistent tone and approach and they keep feeling the need to have action and "big" save the world narratives.

They need to pick a damn tone and style, pick a decent story that suits the characters (I don't read comics but there's got to be some meat there) and stick with it no matter what leaks or how the internet howls.

From the media I've seen some elements of this "take" could have worked but it seems the end result is muddled and inconsistent yet again.
 

Garlador

Member
I say potato, you say Twentieth Century Fox.

That's an insult to potatoes everywhere. A potato could make a better Fantastic Four film than Fox.

Honestly, it can be done. It HAS been done, according to Pixar's The incredibles.
The_Incredibles.jpg


They have a beloved, successful template right there and they didn't use it.
 
Nobody really wants to see a Fantastic Four movie, and nobody really wants to make one.

What everyone wants is Doom.

So the trick is how to get Doom onscreen without having to put a lot of time and energy into dealing with the Fantastic Four. They're the delivery system for a Doom origin. That's basically it.
 

E the Shaggy

Junior Member
Nobody really wants to see a Fantastic Four movie, and nobody really wants to make one.

What everyone wants is Doom.

So the trick is how to get Doom onscreen without having to put a lot of time and energy into dealing with the Fantastic Four. They're the delivery system for a Doom origin. That's basically it.

Marvel's Spider-Man: Future Foundation, Doom as the villain.
 
The incredibles is to the Fantastic Four as The Iron Giant is to Superman (I see your game Brad bird)

It has alot of elements that celebrate what makes their inspirations great but at the end of the day are pretty much completely different properties. It isn't enough to just ape the Incredibles when there are so many other factors that a Fantastic Four movie needs in order to work.
 

Nairume

Banned
Also Doom itself is just too big of a villain and they just can't show his awesomeness in the fuckin F4 origin story.
Honestly, I'm of a mind now that a good way of handling Doom in an F4 origin story is to do so entirely through background means. Like, have intermittent news clips regarding Reed planning the trip to space or the F4 fighting a giant slime monsters, while Doom leading a military coup to take over Latveria gets relegated to the news ticker at the bottom of the screen.

Aside from being a really neat way of setting him up without having a bloated movie, it'd also probably establish a good reason for him to resent Reed as a rival if the media cycle just kept focusing on Reed as a celebrity scientist and/or the F4's adventures while just ignoring Doom's own exploits.
 

Penguin

Member
Nobody really wants to see a Fantastic Four movie, and nobody really wants to make one.

What everyone wants is Doom.

So the trick is how to get Doom onscreen without having to put a lot of time and energy into dealing with the Fantastic Four. They're the delivery system for a Doom origin. That's basically it.

Doom should just be a thing... not sure why they keep wanting to tie his faith into the Four's faith.

Maybe not even make him the first villain... if they reboot again
 
Doom does not work as well he can without Reed in the center, he needs that one man that he envies and knows is better than him. Without a Reed, Doom becomes simultaneously too perfect and more of a "normal" run of the mill megalomaniac.

Current Secret Wars is ther perfect example of how much Reed is the big psychological chink in Doom's armor, the man is a full blown omnipotent god for 8 years and the minute Reed shows up everything starts to unravel for him.
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Honestly, I'm of a mind now that a good way of handling Doom in an F4 origin story is to do so entirely through background means. Like, have intermittent news clips regarding Reed planning the trip to space or the F4 fighting a giant slime monsters, while Doom leading a military coup to take over Latveria gets relegated to the news ticker at the bottom of the screen.

Aside from being a really neat way of setting him up without having a bloated movie, it'd also probably establish a good reason for him to resent Reed as a rival if the media cycle just kept focusing on Reed as a celebrity scientist and/or the F4's adventures while just ignoring Doom's own exploits.

Honestly I'd rather they reverse that: Have the movie be about Doom and HIS story, and while it's happening in the background have clips or mentions about the F4 coming into their own, and by the end of the movie these four heroes come after Doom, who the audience now understands as not an evil person but a man driven to do incredible and horrible things in the name of improvement and "peace". Make it a superhero movie of a different nature, where the heroes are the background and the "bad guy" is the focus.

If a story and twist like this could work with any character, it would be Doom.
 
Also Doom itself is just too big of a villain and they just can't show his awesomeness in the fuckin F4 origin story.

I agree with this. One of the biggest strengths of BB and TDK is that they didn't blow their wad on the Joker in the first movie where they also have to tell Batman's origin story at the same time. BB tells the origin story really well and ties it in with the villain in an interesting way and TDK gives a whole 2.5 hour movie to tell the story of the bigger, better known and more interesting villain. Use someone besides Doom as the villain in your F4 origin and give Doom a full, proper movie to flourish in.
 

Garlador

Member
The incredibles is to the Fantastic Four as The Iron Giant is to Superman (I see your game Brad bird)

It has alot of elements that celebrate what makes their inspirations great but at the end of the day are pretty much completely different properties. It isn't enough to just ape the Incredibles when there are so many other factors that a Fantastic Four movie needs in order to work.

Brad Bird could make a great Fantastic Four...

But I respectfully disagree.

See, the thing that makes The Iron Giant as a character work just like Superman is that they tie in enough similarities to the core traits of what Superman is and represents and then applies them to the Iron Giant. A being from another planet, blessed/cursed with extraordinary destructive power, who rather than destroy life, selflessly puts the needs of others before his own, even at the cost of his own life. ... ... Well, it worked until Man of Steel, at least.

But the same thing that makes The Incredibles work is what would make the Fantastic Four work. Sure, the plot and setting and characters are different, but the thing that makes the Incredibles work is that they aren't just a superhero team; they're a FAMILY. They've got dysfunction, distrust, egos, immaturity, conflict, and differences, but they still ultimately love one another and stick by each other because they're a family, through thick and thin. That's not just the heroics... it's the other stuff, the personal stuff. Dealing with middle-age, parenthood, paying the bills, clinging to glory days, balancing time with friends and with family, trust in your spouse, dealing a violation of that trust, etc., etc.

The Incredibles isn't a story about superheroes; it's a story about a family... that also happens to have powers. That's the Fantastic Four. They aren't just heroes, they aren't just scientists. They're brothers and sisters and fathers and daughters and husbands and wives and uncles and mothers... Heck, even Doctor Doom in the comics is the godfather of one of their children. They're a family, first and foremost, and that is the part of them that the Incredibles tapped into so strongly and applied so well.
 

RetroDLC

Foundations of Burden
The best things about this film are the body horror transformations and the server rack of N64s in the opening sequence. It's worth the two tickets for £10 offer that me and my dad used to see it with, but I've never seen a film shit itself so hard at the halfway mark. It had so much potential.

You're telling me you missed
the baby crib
at the end?

Where the hell was this?
 

RetroDLC

Foundations of Burden
Mid-credits scene with Sue showing Reed the pregnancy test before he faints to the floor.
Hello! Did you just leave once the main title appeared?

I turned my phone back on and used Google to see if the film had a end credits scene, it took a minute into the credits but we left as soon as I found out it didn't. I'm glad to see nothing important was missed though.
 

Garlador

Member
I think I kind of believe Trank. Maybe his version of the movie isn't amazing, but I bet it's better than what we got.

I'm willing to bet it's like the Exorcist Prequel debacle. The studio version with the replacement direct is worse... but the original director's cut, while a huge improvement, was still pretty awful.
 
That's an insult to potatoes everywhere. A potato could make a better Fantastic Four film than Fox.

Honestly, it can be done. It HAS been done, according to Pixar's The incredibles.
The_Incredibles.jpg


They have a beloved, successful template right there and they didn't use it.

They can't use it because Incredibles has a very different message than the Fantastic 4, and the Family dynamic is also very different because it's wrapped around that vastly different message.
 

Garlador

Member
They can't use it because Incredibles has a very different message than the Fantastic 4, and the Family dynamic is also very different because it's wrapped around that vastly different message.

And what's that message? I watch it and the message is, simply enough, the importance of being a family and being there for each other, rather than doing things on your own.

To me, that's the Fantastic Four. The comic I grew up reading was almost exactly like that. They would stop the Mole Man, and then Sue would change diapers. Reed would time travel, then go to a parent-teacher conference. Johnny would hang out with Spider-man, then rush off to his nephew's birthday party.

There is no message the Incredibles did about family that the Fantastic Four couldn't do as well.
 

robb_w7

Banned
Give give Disney all of Marvel rights please, for the sake of the fans!

Fox have never made an incredible super hero movie, i would say X-Men is there best and its not mindblowing, just good.

Fantastic 4 i think should not have any movies or tv series after this, it hasnt worked in any mediums, just let it live in comic book form only
 

RetroDLC

Foundations of Burden
I've just realised that if Fox are dumb enough to make a sequel, having
Franklin or Valeria in it
, they have to do a
huge fucking time jump for either of them to be of any value
. Not like Fox cares, though.
 

Xater

Member
Also Doom itself is just too big of a villain and they just can't show his awesomeness in the fuckin F4 origin story.

That's why I would do it the other way around. Focus on Doom's origin and skim over the F4 one. I mean they origin is kinda lame anyway.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Oh, man. Is it me, or is it ten times easier to see the cancer wig in this screenshot?
I can see it, as well. This is why I'm glad that Karen Gillan shaved her head for the role of Nebula. Though given her currently-short hair, Karen might be able to get away with a bald cap for Vol. 2.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Fox have never made an incredible super hero movie, i would say X-Men is there best and its not mindblowing, just good.
Lady_Deathstrike_Swag.gif

Nah.
I've just realised that if Fox are dumb enough to make a sequel, having
Franklin or Valeria in it
, they have to do a
huge fucking time jump for either of them to be of any value
. Not like Fox cares, though.

Nah man, if they really want to make it a superpowered family, they don't need to timeskip. I gotta have mah scenes of The Thing and Johnny trying to babysit while the Mr. and Mrs. are out. Hilarity ensues as diapers are incinerated and The Thing has to work out baby formula.
 
Slightly off topic but I'm in that camp that wishes reboots would stop doing origin stories and start either at the beginning or midway of the hero's career. Wasting half the movie to see how they get their powers in a very similar but totally different way is mad boring. Character building and all that stuff can always be done outside the origin story.

Like how the Incredible Hulk reboot just skipped past all that bullshit and went straight into it, and that's why it
was decent
 
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