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FANT4STIC 4OUR |OT| Fantastic 4/10

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Thanks man.

And thanks for being super-patient with me as my diarrhea of the keyboard goes splashing all over the fuckin' thread.

I think there are good critical posters who think the same but some people (im guilty) just point to "Fox" because it's one collective studio that repeatedly fucks up these movies on a regular basis so it all just gets lumped together. For this movie in particular there are definitely various conceptual, writing and directing choices that Trank and Kinsberg should be taken to task for.

But I honestly have no fucking clue who is responsible for whatever happened in reshoots. I heard about the shit that went on with Trank on set but was never sure how much of it was legit and if he really wasn't there for the reshoots.
 

jtb

Banned
Can someone link me to some articles about Trank's on-set antics? I didn't follow the production of the film closely and I'm curious about the specifics.

When are more people going to wake up to Simon Kinberg being a bad writer? This is the same guy who wrote X3, and other screenplay gems like XXX: State of the Union, Jumper and This Means War.

And before anyone pulls the DOFP card, tell me with a straight face that that script isn't riddled with breaks in logic (Quicksilver never seen again despite being massively useful to their whole predicament), plot contrivances (Xavier can walk but can't use his powers because of a drug that affects his DNA?) or set-ups that frankly make no sense at all (Magneto somehow reprogramming the Sentinels to obey him by melding metal girders into their frames and CPUs; somehow I don't think that's how AI programming works). It was a good movie but the writing was frequently the worst part of it.

He's not Orci/Kurtzman level; he can't single-handedly ruin a movie (yet?). But damned if that written by credit isn't becoming a red flag more and more.

Agreed. The film is kind of a nonsensical mess.
 

jtb

Banned
also, Christopher McQuarrie, who apparently was one of the credited writers on the Wolverine, should get a shot at one of these superhero films.
 
When are more people going to wake up to Simon Kinberg being a bad writer? This is the same guy who wrote X3, and other screenplay gems like XXX: State of the Union, Jumper and This Means War.

And before anyone pulls the DOFP card, tell me with a straight face that that script isn't riddled with breaks in logic (Quicksilver never seen again despite being massively useful to their whole predicament), plot contrivances (Xavier can walk but can't use his powers because of a drug that affects his DNA?) or set-ups that frankly make no sense at all (Magneto somehow reprogramming the Sentinels to obey him by melding metal girders into their frames and CPUs; somehow I don't think that's how AI programming works). It was a good movie but the writing was frequently the worst part of it.

He's not Orci/Kurtzman level; he can't single-handedly ruin a movie (yet?). But damned if that written by credit isn't becoming a red flag more and more.

So, should we be worried about his involvement with Star Wars (the actual movies, not Rebels, which he is also involved with)?
 
Can someone link me to some articles about Trank's on-set antics? I didn't follow the production of the film closely and I'm curious about the specifics.



Agreed. The film is kind of a nonsensical mess.
They got DMCAd from the website, Tigerdroppings as well from 4chan.
 
So, should we be worried about his involvement with Star Wars (the actual movies, not Rebels, which he is also involved with)?

I think he's actually writing the Han Solo film. Otherwise he's just part of the story group pitching ideas and breaking characters/stories. Which appears to be a thing he's pretty decent at. It's just the execution that is wobbly.

I mean, I have my reasons for being a little skeptical of the Han Solo movie as it is. Kinberg's being in charge of the script (if he is) doesn't help all that much.
 
I can see why people would wonder whether Fantastic Four can actually be made into a movie, considering the four examples of it we've gotten to this point.

But I'm pretty sure it would make for a damn good TV show.

if Guardians of the Galaxy can be made into a good movie, than FF can also be a made into a ''good'' movie if they wanted to

sadly, 2015 didn't
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
Actually only just realised in hindsight how many scenes from the ads aren't in this, which certainly casts more light on the production trouble and probably explains the relatively short running time.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Actually only just realised in hindsight how many scenes from the ads aren't in this, which certainly casts more light on the production trouble and probably explains the relatively short running time.

Not necessarily. Many films will use different takes or unused scenes in the promotional spots or trailers.
 

Vazduh

Member
Can someone link me to some articles about Trank's on-set antics? I didn't follow the production of the film closely and I'm curious about the specifics.

Someone on imdb summed up the entire mess. Quoting one of the two big-ass posts:

Also known as TRANKGATE: TRANK HARDER: ELECTRANK BOOGALOO: THE TRANKENING.

This is me just trying to compile all of the various news, rumors, and insider scoops regarding the movie. Future generations will need to know of how things went south for this production. I'm trying to keep this is approximate chronological order.

----

- Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer is a marginal financial success for Fox, but is a critical dud overall. Plans to create a sequel to that Fantastic Four movie and a Silver Surfer spinoff are both brought up between 2007 and 2009, but neither project goes anywhere.

- Disney officially acquires Marvel for $4 billion. After Disney announced its plans to greatly expand the then-fledgling Marvel Cinematic Universe with a wide variety of properties, Fox announces plans to reboot the Fantastic Four property. However, no real progress is made on the film until 2014.

- When Fox first alluded to the casting, which was when Bruce Willis and Kiefer Sutherland were alluded as potential choices for Ben Grimm, other top picks included Adrien Brody as Mr. Fantastic, Alice Eve as Sue Storm, Kevin Pennington as Johnny Storm, and Stephen Moyer as Doctor Doom. Prospective directors included James McTeigue, Joe Carnahan, and David Yates.

- Josh Trank is hired to direct the reboot after Chronicle proves to be a sleeper hit.

- The rights for Fox to make a Daredevil movie expire. Disney offers Fox an extension for their project - which has work on it underway - in exchange for the rights of certain Cosmic Marvel characters that Marvel Studios does not own, such as Silver Surfer and Galactus. Fox callously refuses the deal to part ways with Cosmic Marvel characters (even though they do not plan to use said characters again) and Disney gains Daredevil, which they turn into a critically-acclaimed Netflix series two years later.

- Fox announces plans to create a competing Marvel Cinematic Universe with the X-Men and the Fantastic Four after The Avengers is a huge box office success.

- Rumors that the role of the Human Torch is being given to Michael B. Jordan - without anyone else being tested for the part - spread. These are eventually proven to be true. Complaints about this casting decision begin. Aside from Michael B. Jordan, the entire cast was hired mere weeks before filming began.

- Miles Teller, Kate Mara, and Jamie Bell are cast in the film as Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, and the Thing. Everyone and their mother criticizes these cast choices, and fans begin to express complete disdain for the reboot. However, anyone who criticizes Michael B. Jordan's earlier casting in the film - be it for the proof of simple nepotism, the unexplained relationship to Kate Mara's character, or simply not liking him in the part - is childishly labeled as a "racist" by the media, with supporters of the film following suit (and while there are some racists, that's not comic book fandom - that's just the world we live in).

- Right after the backlash against Michael B. Jordan's casting hits, Josh Trank tweets a picture of the FF's Human Torch meeting Jim Hammond, the Android Human Torch from the "Timely Comics" era. It is confirmed that the real Trank was the one who posted this.

- Word that team might not even be called "The Fantastic Four" in the movie also comes up.

- Bleeding Cool made a report suggesting that they were looking to fire Josh Trank, dump the cast he picked, and abandon his script shortly before production began. New directors were apparently sighted. Fox presumably kept going with Trank due to running short on time to reboot the property.

- Fox announces a sequel to the reboot in an attempt to silence concerns people may have for the project, even with the financial stability of the reboot left uncertain.

- The production of the movie begins.

- Josh Trank returned to Twitter in a bout of frustration. Trank tweeted out a picture of his dog's anus in response to fan backlash against the film make the rounds. The post was taken down quickly before anyone could screengrab it. Trank's Twitter account is subsequently deleted.

- Doctor Doom is announced as the film's villain, with the only major difference being that this time around, he might use the Doombots. (Oh, and Mole Man is apparently in the movie, too.)

- The "grounded and gritty, found-footage feel" approach to the film is detailed for the first time. This pisses innumerable Marvel fans off, many of which claim that this defeats the entire purpose of one of the most unrealistic Marvel franchises ever written.

- Fox's plans for a shared universe are shot dead by their own admission. Fox keeps bringing up plans to try and cross their own properties over for PR purposes, although no real evidence that Fox is going to follow up on a potential crossover is brought up at all.

- Producer Simon Kinberg expresses enthusiasm for the 3-D conversion of the film that is being planned.

- Josh Trank is hired to direct the second announced Star Wars Anthology film, which he allegedly chooses to do over returning to direct the already-announced Fantastic Four sequel. He has high enthusiasm for the project, calling it an "incredible dream". This makes his "departure" from the film more shocking when it happens nearly a year later.

- A SuperHeroHype thread brings up some early rumors about production troubles. These rumors include Josh Trank's verbal abuse toward Kate Mara and details about script rewrites from Simon Kinberg that took place on set. He claimed to find the movie as it was proceeding to be lacking, mentioned that Josh Trank didn't really have a clear vision on the set, and he thought that the movie is going to bomb, though Fox is going to try and salvage it later. He also notes that the reason the production was delayed for so long in the event that Marvel would buy the film rights to the characters back from Twentieth Century Fox.

- The conspiracy that Marvel is trying to sabotage their own properties pops up when the cancellation of Fantastic Four is brought up. Nobody considers that Marvel might be trying to promote its more successful series, given that their First Family's comic sales have been in decline.

- Kate Mara announces that not only will the movie not be based on the comics, but that the cast were told not to become familiar with their characters from the many Fantastic Four comics that have been published over the years. This statement angers a whole lot of people, many of whom plan on boycotting the movie.

- Right after Kate Mara's controversial statement, Michael B. Jordan says that the script is constantly being rewritten with Simon Kinberg present on set and decisions being made "on the fly". While rewrites themselves are not unheard of (James Gunn wrote a new scene in Guardians Of The Galaxy during filming (possibly a bar fight scene) and Edge Of Tomorrow got its dialogues constantly getting rewritten), the fact that Jordan said that decisions were made "on the fly", makes the whole interview worrisome. Later rumors seem to confirm this claim indirectly as the film is suddenly based on the Ultimate version.

- The cast of the movie take an atrocious, cringe-inducing selfie to signify the end of production.

- Doctor Doom's costume leaks out. It blows. The internet takes notice.

- Michael B. Jordan mentions that the actual team won't be wearing their iconic outfits in-movie, calling Jack Kirby's classic costumes "cheesy". (Ironically, the actual "containment suit" costumes made for the movie look pretty terrible, as people would eventually find out.) Again, people don't like hearing that what they like about the superhero team will be completely misrepresented on film.

- Complete radio silence on the film's media campaign for for months on end. Footage for Batman V. Superman: Dawn Of Justice, a movie that is set for a 2016 release, is revealed at SDCC 2014 before anything related to Fantastic Four pops up - screenshots included. The movie isn't even mentioned at the convention.

- Doctor Doom is confirmed to be reimagined as a blogger named Victor Domashev that has social issues. Many people mistake this take on the character to be an internet troll. Few take this concept seriously.

- Miles Teller confusingly says that the movie isn't made with the fans in mind, and then he quickly backpedals and claims it's being made for older fans of the franchise.

- Any press releases on the film is notably absent from a number of conventions where it could have been discussed. Fox attempts to say that they're trying to take on J. J. Abrams's "Mystery Box" method of doing things by staying quiet about the project. Many are skeptical and suspect something's up with the movie itself.

- Simon Kinberg claims that the reason that nothing - not even a poster - has been shown is because they want the movie to look right.

- People similar in appearance to the cast of the Fantastic Four reboot are seemingly blown up in the pages of The Punisher. The writer plausibly denies that it was made to make fun of the production of the film (even though it clearly was), and he states that the cast members were not killed in the exposion. Max Landis, writer of Chronicle, takes note, and takes a public pot-shot at Josh Trank - who he previously worked with - on Twitter.

- Fox was also quick to debunk a Twitter user claiming to be Josh Trank; the user was notably being civil and friendly with his audience, in stark contrast to the inflammatory picture Josh Trank posted.

- An otherwise-inconsequential Louisiana University forum (Lousiana was where much of the movie was filmed) houses a discussion of this scene in The Punisher, leading to a major leak of rumors that suggest that Josh Trank screwed up big time on the set of the film.

- According to the forum, Josh Trank's rap sheet for the movie included being absent from certain shooting days, being unresponsive to questions, possibly being drugged out of his mind, sounding unintelligible, being rude to the crew members and the talent, and trashing his rented home and the set. A Fox CEO apparently came down to the shooting location to apologize personally for Trank's questionable behavior.

- Other sources from Reddit mentioned that Josh Trank regularly made sexist remarks, was extremely egoistical and filled with unwarranted self-importance. One source even notes that Fox apparently has plans to file a lawsuit against Trank after the movie is released. Miles Teller was apparently also high while on set, and a person who apparently kicked their drug habits had to go back into rehab after partying with Trank. (Drugs were apparently delivered to the set by a shady individual.) Josh Trank's absences were noted, and at time he was said to have given instructions from a monitor, not directly interacting with the cast.

- A rumor from another source suggests that Kate Mara was verbally abused by Josh Trank to the point where she cried.

- Rumors that extensive reshoots are set to begin without Josh Trank's involvement also pop up.

- Another rumor, implying that Josh Trank stopped answering phone calls from Fox, came into the fray at this time.

- These rumors spread like wildfire on film news sites like Screen Rant, Latino-Review, and Bleeding Cool, among others.

- One of the leaked Sony e-mails allegedly featured a Fox representative telling a Sony representative that Josh Trank was bad news to work with.

- Bleeding Cool reports that a Fox representative said that the movie was "a mess" in private discussion.

- On a public level, Fox attempts to bring damage control into the situation after the rumors pop up everywhere.

- Several articles pop up about how everything is fine without actually addressing the rumors about the set. Reshoots are promised to be "only a few more days". Some sites claim that these interviews completely dismiss the rumors (they don't).

- The first Trailer for the movie pops up. It is the most disliked Superhero movie preview on YouTube in a while, but it's passable enough to renew hope in the movie for some desperate Fox shills.

- A "commentary" video on the first Trailer is posted. In it, Simon Kinberg and Josh Trank talked about the trailer. Although not unheard of, it was a rare attempt to do some form of "damage control" over the dislike of the preview. During said commentary Trank did not make eye contact with either Kinberg or the camera and seemed to be almost emotionally and physically disassociated with his surroundings, mumbling his way through the video, his voice lacking emotional resonance and leading some to think he was possibly chemically "altered" when the video was filmed.

- Josh Trank restarts his Twitter account.

- Along the way, the movie is suddenly now based on the Ultimate Marvel version of the team, despite not being based on any of the comics earlier. Toby Kebbell, Miles Teller, and Michael B. Jordan now have all suddenly read the comics in spite of being told not to. Oh yeah, and you might see the "cheesy" costumes after all (for all of five minutes)!

- Josh Trank compares his work on the movie to David Cronenberg and Steven Spielberg. Plenty of people think he sounds kind of like a pretentious d-bag.

- Josh Trank is notably absent from a number of interviews on the film, with Simon Kinberg filling in for him in a handful of discussions.

- Josh Trank is announced to appear at a Star Wars Celebration Anaheim panel. He misses out on it. It is later revealed that Disney asked him not to come behind the scenes.

- A Trailer is released on the day of Josh Trank's absence, possibly to deflect concerns. In general, the footage is received more positively by certain outlets, though it is criticized by others. It notably replaces the "see it in 3-D" message with a "see it in large format theaters" message. The "3-D" message is absent from all subsequent advertisements and posters, and is even sneakily edited out of the digital version of the first poster. People begin the suspect that the conversion was cancelled to fund the reshoots.

- The budget of the film is revealed by The Hollywood Reporter as being $122,000,000. This most likely does not include reshoot costs.

- The actors refuse to talk about the movie, even when they're promoting it, at a public event.

- Word gets out that reshoots on the film have taken months, going into May. The period of reshoots for the film officially exceeds the production time.

- Josh Trank officially leaves the Star Wars Anthology film he was slated to direct. While the official reason given is that he wanted to pursue other projects, inside sources mentioned rumors that Simon Kinberg felt uncomfortable working with Trank again after the production of this film and that Fox was disappointed with the reboot (much like how Sony was said to be disappointed with The Amazing Spider-Man 2 shortly before its release).

- Josh Trank describes Sue Storm as being a "slutty secretary" in some comics, although this has never been how she has been portrayed the the comics themselves (while the comics have portrayed her as being fragile in her earlier characterization, she was never portrayed as being promiscuous or provocative). Fans take issue with this.

- The Hollywood Reporter confirms/supports the rumors that were posited on the Louisiana forum - namely, that Josh Trank was uncommunicative, on drugs, and that he was responsible for property damage.

- Josh Trank is also said to be off of post-production of Fantastic Four as was previously reported. Max Landis snarkily tweets out "karma" shortly after news of Trank getting the shaft got out (but plausibly denies that he was referring to Trank, even though he clearly was).

- A reporter makes a tweet that Josh Trank was not around for Chronicle's post-production and that Fox hired someone else to work on editing the movie. Trank apparently physically threatened the reporter after he brought this up. (The reporter later went back on this statement around the time a number of reporters suspiciously tell other reporters not to badmouth Trank.)

- Kevin Feige mentions that he would like to use X-Men characters in the MCU if given the opportunity, dispelling rumors that Marvel Studios doesn't care about the properties it doesn't have access to.

- Josh Trank claims that he left his Star Wars Anthology movie for personal reasons. Another individual from The Hollywood Reporter continues to assert that Trank was outright fired.

- Simon Kinberg is believed to have ghost-directed Fantastic Four along with Matthew Vaughn and Hutch Parker. A number of individuals - including a few attached to X-Men: Apocalypse - had to step in to try to salvage the film in post-production. Josh Trank is the only person to deny that there might have been another director on the set of the movie.

- Josh Trank effectively calls iconic Fantastic Four writer John Byrne a Neo-Nazi over Twitter.

- On Twitter, a writer Seth Grahame-Smith mentions that he wrote the draft which changed Johnny's race - confirming that the movie apparently had at least four different writers working on it at various times in production. One of the movie's screenplay writers (Jeremy Slater) was less-than-enthusiastic about the tweet.

- Fox makes a little bit of advertising money off of the movie using fairly-obscure promotions, including a smartphone application, Crush soda, a special Denny's menu, and small keychains. Of these promotions, the one from Denny's is the most widely-advertised.

- A 4Chan thread that gives an apparent summary of early drafts of the film is posted. It is revealed to have been posted by a person working at OTOY - the company doing CGI for the movie - lists a number of issues that they had with Josh Trank's demands, noting that several special effects shots are going to look weird in terms of image quality and that the 3-D version has indeed been cancelled.

- While people are discussing the technical aspects posited by the OTOY employee, an aggressive poster joins the discussion and acts very defensive of Josh Trank. Many posit that this is in fact the real Trank, and reporter Umberto "El Mayimbe" Gonzales makes a tweet suggesting that this is the case. Multiple people post under the identity, and the nature of anonymous posting on 4Chan makes it unclear which poster was Trank, presuming that any of the posters were real.

- The Josh Trank that posted on 4Chan cited issues with Simon Kinberg, Matthew Vaughn, and the demands of Twentieth Century Fox as being among his key problems with the film. He takes issue with a number of internet news websites and the rumors about the production. He also defends his vision and claims that hardcore fans should read the comics instead.

- An image of Josh Trank holding up a card that says "F--- you!" on it is posted, implying that the poster is Trank. It is later confirmed to be a photoshop, and the real Trank posts a similar image with a different appearance on Twitter as proof that the image is fake.

- Fox censors any outlet that tries to report on the aforementioned 4Chan thread - be it Josh Trank's apparent breakdown or the plot spoilers. This strongly suggests that at least part of the thread contained information that Fox saw as damaging to the release of the movie.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
Actually this review has a really good summation of the films problems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dasnyNiIk50

"this film has no middle"

Hes' right. As I said above, the film sets up them getting their powers (and this takes up 50% of the running time) then just meanders for a while, before a final showdown that lasts 10 mins.

I remember looking at my watch when Doom showed up and was thinking to myself "how is there only 20 minutes left?". The sad part is I didn't like the movie and I still think I liked it more than what some of these reviews are saying! I like the intro/origin stuff everything and it takes up most of the film, everything else fell flat; problem is that's all set up and no punchline.
 

Slayven

Member
Any comic series would make a better TV show than movie but that will never happen if people want big name actors and good sfx

1079139-sw1.jpg
 

SArcher

Banned
I'm really wondering what Trank effed up so bad that they had to reshoot larde portions. And those reshot parts are apparently the worst parts (second half).
 

E the Shaggy

Junior Member
- The rights for Fox to make a Daredevil movie expire. Disney offers Fox an extension for their project - which has work on it underway - in exchange for the rights of certain Cosmic Marvel characters that Marvel Studios does not own, such as Silver Surfer and Galactus. Fox callously refuses the deal to part ways with Cosmic Marvel characters (even though they do not plan to use said characters again) and Disney gains Daredevil, which they turn into a critically-acclaimed Netflix series two years later.

Fucking hell.
 
Goddamn that IMDB post is annoying as shit. There are legitimately interesting details there in that timeline, slathered in whiny fan-gravy.

"Fox CALLOUSLY refuses the deal."

The fuck outta here.

"However, anyone who criticizes Michael B. Jordan's earlier casting in the film - be it for the proof of simple nepotism, the unexplained relationship to Kate Mara's character, or simply not liking him in the part - is childishly labeled as a "racist" by the media."

Theeeeeee FUCK outta here you fucking baby.
 

jtb

Banned
Someone on imdb summed up the entire mess. Quoting one of the two big-ass posts:

Whoa, that's a lot to dig into. Thanks!

Goddamn that IMDB post is annoying as shit. There are legitimately interesting details there in that timeline, slathered in whiny fan-gravy.

"Fox CALLOUSLY refuses the deal."

The fuck outta here.

"However, anyone who criticizes Michael B. Jordan's earlier casting in the film - be it for the proof of simple nepotism, the unexplained relationship to Kate Mara's character, or simply not liking him in the part - is childishly labeled as a "racist" by the media."

Theeeeeee FUCK outta here you fucking baby.

"namedropping David Cronenberg is pretentious" (paraphrasing)

Or, for that matter, Spielberg, who might be the least pretentious filmmaker working in Hollywood.
 
Is this the main thread now?

Here is my partial review. I think the movie is getting rated harshly, especially when looking at the scores of other recent movies like JW and Avengers AoU. I can only say: go see it for yourselves. Don't read specific points of criticism or praise. Judge for yourself with no expectation.

You know how in some movies, regardless of whether or not you thought were great, you tend to remember a certain scene that was done really well? The crane chase scene in Casino Royale stands out for me, or the Cap'n using his shield to deflect Iron Man's repulsers during the first Avengers or the first time we see Batman emerge in Rises.

Beyond skimming certain reviews, I didn't go into the theatre with a checklist of flaws that I wanted to see. I went in knowing only that the trailers sucked and that it was getting panned critically. To be honest, my main motivation was to see a trainwreck of a film to fill out the hours of a boring afternoon. Suffice to say, an hour into the movie (I actually check my watch), and I'm wondering where the trainwreck is. And that is largely symbolic of my experience: this is by no means a high quality movie, but I saw nothing that disappointed me; bored me or confused me. If anything, with a mindset set upon expecting a disaster, I'm actually distracted by how good some of the scenes are.

My favourite scene was actually something subtle, something following the accident. We all know what happens and what it leads to, so it shouldn't really stand out and yet it does. Sue is laying on a bed, semi-there and semi-not. And then the camera has a tight frame on the pillow (as if we were looking at a birds eye view). Her eyes fade in partially, and fade out. Her face is somewhat basked in this transparent purple/blue hue. It's quiet. And then they fade in and out again. It's almost peaceful. And then Johnny's eyes, flames and all, open and close, open and close and close. The noise of the flames; the colour of the orange and red; his agony; the contrast in the two scenes that are snapped together really stood out to me.

And then of course we find Ben.

To me, this entire film was a story of Ben and Reed. Ben is a child who seems to want to aspire. As Reed is ridiculed in class by his teacher, Ben looks at his math equations with curiosity as the others laugh. At home, he can't even do his homework without being beat by an elder relative with violent outbursts. He would soon hand a struggling Reed a Swiss knife to turn a screw, a penpocket that he would hold onto to eventually give as a departing gift to his best friend. The contrast between their life paths couldn't be clearer. Ben is pleased for him though, not resentful or struggling to cope with his own misfortune of living next to his family's salvage yard. Reed awkwardly takes a selfie next to the machine 'they built at Baxter Tower (?). He sends it to Ben before insisting he go with them. The manner in which Ben is later transformed the by the accident, and the scene between the two following that, was fucking heart breaking.

I'll go on talking about the positives if people here interested in that. Let me talk about the negatives.

Doom:

I'm reluctant to describe him as a villain before the final fight scene, where the movie goes knee deep in bullshit that I can't even defend. In some ways, he is relatable. His view of Reed goes through periods. At first, he is jokingly dismissive. In moments, he is frightened by how he is able to talk to Sue without pretext, without history. In other moments, he is in awe. Eventually, he comes to like him and follow him.

When we see him as Doom, he is almost a silhouette across the background of a ruined planet. His hood and torn cloak rippling with in something akin to a desert storm. His body and face became fused with the suit. That image of him with his eyes glowing? That's one shot, literally a few seconds. And that is the last time we see him looking that bad. The only thing about the fight scene at the end is that he actually looks menacing, and worn down. The glow on his body is there when he uses his powers, but with his hood/cloak on, we rarely see his body or head glow and so he isn't as CGI-heavy as that image suggests, which is why I said it was misleading. Everything else was shite, but lets not fool ourselves:

Cheesy lines? Check
Predictable scenes? Check
Forced drama? Check.

But you could pick those out in the last Avengers movie, for instance. I think the real cause of concern for me was seeing how they were portrayed as a group of heroes; they were shit. None of their powers looked interesting. The flight scenes of the Torch, however, was exciting to watch but other than that? He dashes balls of fire at people like they were bricks. Sue? She does nothing memorable other than create a force field to protect them. Reed? I've read the criticism of the CGI when it comes to him. It looked stupid. But then I realised his actual power is stupid and intolerably dull.

As an origin, this film works because it focuses on character development. A sequel would however expose them as being a group with uninteresting abilities.
 

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
- Miles Teller, Kate Mara, and Jamie Bell are cast in the film as Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, and the Thing. Everyone and their mother criticizes these cast choices, and fans begin to express complete disdain for the reboot. However, anyone who criticizes Michael B. Jordan's earlier casting in the film - be it for the proof of simple nepotism, the unexplained relationship to Kate Mara's character, or simply not liking him in the part - is childishly labeled as a "racist" by the media, with supporters of the film following suit (and while there are some racists, that's not comic book fandom - that's just the world we live in).

I disagree with this notion. There was definitely some racial animus with the criticism of Jordan as the Torch. He's a good actor, and I would have been fine with this casting if he was to star in an MCU FF film.
 

Snaku

Banned
Is this the main thread now?

Here is my partial review. I think the movie is getting rated harshly, especially when looking at the scores of other recent movies like JW and Avengers AoU. I can only say: go see it for yourselves. Don't read specific points of criticism or praise. Judge for yourself with no expectation.

Honestly this reads exactly like my experience seeing Terminator Genisys. The internet likes to manufacture predestined train wrecks, and when the film is finally released they shit all over it without even seeing it in a self fulfilling prophecy. I haven't seen Fant4stic, but I'm sure it's not the steaming pile the Internet was hyping it up to be.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Goddamn that IMDB post is annoying as shit. There are legitimately interesting details there in that timeline, slathered in whiny fan-gravy.



The fuck outta here.



Theeeeeee FUCK outta here you fucking baby.

Overall, the IMDB summary is very informative but is still a good reminder of why I never read anything user related at IMDB.
 
Has anyone listened to the 3-part Josh Trank interview on Fatman on Batman? Part 4 is coming next week and will be more spoiler-y, but he honestly sounds like a good guy and had nothing but nice things to say about Max Landis and Fox. He also says they love the movie. Now I am, of course, considering the source but what help does small-scale damage control like that accomplish? There's so much FUD surrounding this movie it never really had a chance and it's probably going to torpedo this guy's career. Maybe he deserves it, I don't know. It's an interesting counterpoint to everything in this thread / on the internet, though. At least partially... I mean Kevin doesn't really address the controversies head-on, much of the interview is spent on Trank's pre-Chronicle career/life (which is interesting), but the episodes are worth a listen at least to hear some long-form stuff from the horse's mouth. Rare that we get that when a potential bomb like this is incoming.
 
God, editing this gave me a rash. At least now it's readable/pertinent.

- Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer is a marginal financial success, but a a critical dud overall. Plans to create a sequel and a Silver Surfer spinoff are both brought up between 2007 and 2009, but neither project goes anywhere.

- Disney officially acquires Marvel for $4 billion. Disney announces plans to expand the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Fox announces plans to reboot the Fantastic Four property. However, no real progress is made on the film until 2014.

- Early Fox casting possibilities included Bruce Willis and Kiefer Sutherland as Ben Grimm, Adrien Brody as Mr. Fantastic, Alice Eve as Sue Storm, Kevin Pennington as Johnny Storm, and Stephen Moyer as Doctor Doom. Prospective directors included James McTeigue, Joe Carnahan, and David Yates.

- Josh Trank is hired to direct the reboot after Chronicle proves to be a sleeper hit.

- The rights for Fox to make a Daredevil movie expire. Disney offers Fox an extension for their project - which has work on it underway - in exchange for the rights of certain Cosmic Marvel characters, such as Silver Surfer and Galactus. Fox refuses the deal.

- Fox announces plans to create their own Cinematic Universe with the X-Men and the Fantastic Four after The Avengers is a huge box office success.

- Rumors that the role of the Human Torch is being given to Michael B. Jordan - without anyone else being tested for the part - spread. These are eventually proven to be true.

- Miles Teller, Kate Mara, and Jamie Bell are cast in the film as Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, and the Thing.

- Right after the backlash against Michael B. Jordan's casting hits, Josh Trank tweets a picture of the FF's Human Torch meeting Jim Hammond, the Android Human Torch from the "Timely Comics" era.

- Word that team might not even be called "The Fantastic Four" in the movie also comes up.

- Bleeding Cool suggests the studio was looking to fire Josh Trank, dump the cast he picked, and abandon his script shortly before production began, but presumably stayed with Trank due to time constraints.

- Fox announces a sequel to the reboot.

- The production of the movie begins.

- Trank tweets a picture of his dog's anus in response to fan backlash against the film. Trank's Twitter account is subsequently deleted.

- Doctor Doom is announced as the film's villain, as well as the possibility he might use the Doombots. (Oh, and Mole Man is apparently in the movie, too.)

- The "grounded and gritty, found-footage feel" approach to the film is detailed for the first time.

- Fox's plans for a shared universe are, according to Fox, no longer in play.

- Producer Simon Kinberg expresses enthusiasm for the 3-D conversion of the film.

- Josh Trank is hired to direct the second Star Wars Anthology film. He has high enthusiasm for the project, calling it an "incredible dream". He departs the film a year later.

- Early rumors about production troubles surface at Superhero Hype, including Josh Trank's verbal abuse toward Kate Mara and on-set rewrites from Kinberg in response to Josh Trank not having a clear vision on the set.

- Kate Mara announces that not only will the movie not be based on the comics, but that the cast were told not to become familiar with their characters from the many Fantastic Four comics that have been published over the years.

- Michael B. Jordan confirms the script is being rewritten "on the fly" with Simon Kinberg present on set.

- The cast of the movie take a selfie to signify the end of production.

- Doctor Doom's costume leaks out.

- Michael B. Jordan mentions that the actual team won't be wearing their iconic outfits in-movie, calling Jack Kirby's classic costumes "cheesy".

- Complete radio silence on the film's media campaign for for months on end. Footage for Batman V. Superman: Dawn Of Justice, a movie that is set for a 2016 release, is revealed at SDCC 2014 before anything related to Fantastic Four pops up - screenshots included. The movie isn't even mentioned at the convention.

- Doctor Doom is confirmed to be reimagined as a blogger named Victor Domashev that has social issues.

- Miles Teller says that the movie isn't made with the fans in mind, and then claims it's being made for older fans of the franchise.

- Fox explains lack of press attention by claiming they're trying to apply J. J. Abrams's "Mystery Box" method.

- Simon Kinberg claims there's been no publicity because they want the movie to look right.

- People similar in appearance to the cast of the Fantastic Four reboot are seemingly blown up in the pages of The Punisher. Max Landis, writer of Chronicle, takes note, and takes a public pot-shot at Josh Trank.

- An otherwise-inconsequential Louisiana University forum (Lousiana was where much of the movie was filmed) houses a discussion of this scene in The Punisher, leading to a major leak of rumors that suggest that Josh Trank screwed up big time on the set of the film.

- According to a Louisiana University-focused forum, Josh Trank was occasionally absent from shooting, unresponsive to questions, possibly high, unintelligible, rude to crew members and the talent, and destructive to his rented home and the set. A Fox exec apparently visited the shoot to apologize personally for Trank's questionable behavior.

- Other Reddit sources claimed an egotistical Trank regularly made sexist remarks, and rumored there'd be a Fox lawsuit against Trank after the movie is released. Miles Teller was apparently also high on set, and partying with Trank caused one member of the production to relapse after previously completing rehab. Trank's was said to have directed via monitor, not directly interacting with the cast.

- A rumor suggested Kate Mara was verbally abused by Josh Trank to tears

- Rumors that extensive reshoots are set to begin without Josh Trank's involvement also pop up, as well as rumors that Trank has stopped answering calls from Fox

- One of the leaked Sony e-mails allegedly featured a Fox representative telling a Sony representative that Josh Trank was bad news to work with.

- Bleeding Cool reports that a Fox representative said that the movie was "a mess" in private discussion.

- The first Trailer for the movie drops.

- A "commentary" video on the first Trailer is posted, starring Trank and Kinberg. Trank mumbles his way through the video, making no eye contact with Kinberg or the camera.

- Josh Trank restarts his Twitter account.

- Josh Trank compares his work on the movie to David Cronenberg and Steven Spielberg.

- Josh Trank is notably absent from a number of interviews on the film, with Simon Kinberg filling in for him in a handful of discussions.

- Josh Trank is announced to appear at a Star Wars Celebration Anaheim panel. He doesn't show. It's later revealed Lucasfilm asked him not to come.

- The second trailer is released that same day. It replaces the "see it in 3-D" message with a "see it in large format theaters" message. The "3-D" message is absent from all subsequent advertisements and posters.

- The budget of the film is revealed by The Hollywood Reporter as $122,000,000.

- The actors refuse to talk about the movie, even when they're promoting it, at a public event.

- Word gets out that reshoots on the film have taken months, going into May. The period of reshoots for the film officially exceeds the production time.

- Josh Trank officially leaves the Star Wars Anthology film he was slated to direct. While the official reason given is that he wanted to pursue other projects, inside sources mentioned rumors that Simon Kinberg felt uncomfortable working with Trank again after the production of this film and that Fox was disappointed with the reboot (much like how Sony was said to be disappointed with The Amazing Spider-Man 2 shortly before its release).

- Josh Trank describes Sue Storm as being a "slutty secretary" in some comics.

- The Hollywood Reporter confirms/supports the rumors that Josh Trank was uncommunicative, on drugs, and that he was responsible for property damage.

- Josh Trank is also said to be off of post-production of Fantastic Four as was previously reported. Max Landis tweets out "karma" shortly afterwards.

- Josh Trank claims that he left his Star Wars Anthology movie for personal reasons. Another individual from The Hollywood Reporter continues to assert that Trank was outright fired.

- Simon Kinberg is believed to have ghost-directed Fantastic Four along with Matthew Vaughn and Hutch Parker. A number of individuals - including a few attached to X-Men: Apocalypse - had to step in to try to salvage the film in post-production. Josh Trank is the only person to deny that there might have been another director on the set of the movie.

- Josh Trank effectively calls iconic Fantastic Four writer John Byrne a Neo-Nazi over Twitter.

- On Twitter, writer Seth Grahame-Smith mentions that he wrote the draft which changed Johnny's race - confirming that the movie apparently had at least four different writers working on it at various times in production.

- A 4Chan thread that summarizes early drafts of the film is posted by a person working at OTOY - the company doing CGI for the movie, including issues that they had with Josh Trank's demands, noting that several special effects shots are going to look weird in terms of image quality and that the 3-D version has indeed been cancelled.

- A poster suspected to be Josh Trank posted on 4Chan citing issues with Simon Kinberg, Matthew Vaughn, and the demands of Twentieth Century Fox as being among his key problems with the film. He takes issue with a number of internet news websites and the rumors about the production. He also defends his vision and claims that hardcore fans should read the comics instead.

- An image of Josh Trank holding up a card that says "F--- you!" on it is posted, implying that the poster is Trank. It is later confirmed to be a photoshop, and the real Trank posts a similar image with a different appearance on Twitter as proof that the image is fake.

- Fox censors any outlet that tries to report on the aforementioned 4Chan thread

- Shortly afterwards, another 4Channer claims the January 2014 draft was further revised in March to be less expensive, while also suggesting the budget had been increased to add action and humor to the movie to make it more marketable, which came at the cost of marketing's budget. Fox executives were apparently disappointed in the first rough cut.

- Michael B. Jordan talks with Entertainment Weekly about racist fanboys.

- Fox pulls Fantastic Four (2005) and Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer from digital distributors.

- Fox's Hitman: Agent 47 is moved to release two weeks after Fantastic Four, suggesting that Fox is not confident in the movie's performance.

- TV Spots start airing.

- The track names for the original soundtrack for the movie are released. The outline of the plot sounds nearly identical to the 2005 movie, with the exceptions of there being a flashback sequence at the beginning and a military battle sequence in the middle. The characters apparently do not gain their superpowers until halfway through the film.

- Josh Trank explains in an interview he was both anticipating controversy with his approach and that he didn't handle it well.

- Josh Trank talks with Kevin Smith on his podcast to promote the film.

- Rumors surface that Matthew Vaughn was in charge of the movie in post-production, and editors of the film were told to ignore the darker-and-edgier body horror take on the movie in favor of standard superhero fare.

- An SDCC panel is held with the cast. Josh Trank actually shows up this time with Simon Kinberg, and says that he sees the movie as a follow-up to Chronicle. Toby Kebbell is referred to "Victor Von Doom" instead of "Victor Domashev".

- Josh Trank confirms that the film is not finished as of SDCC.

- Jamie Bell confirms that the movie will not have a mid-credits or post-credits scene.

- Josh Trank confirms that the 3-D conversion was officially cancelled, citing artistic reasons.

- The final Trailer and a variant are released a few days after SDCC.

- AMC reports the running time is an hour and forty-five minutes. This is much shorter than what Josh Trank expected the final cut to be

- Doctor Doom is revealed to have green glowing skin and a face made out of metal. Thing is revealed to have Jamie Bell's unaltered voice.

- The movie is still considered to be in post-production less than ten days before the movie is first shown commercially in New Zealand, and officially completed 7 days before that release.

- Critic screenings take place two days before the movie premieres, with a review embargo set to expire the night before the movie is released. The embargo lift is later rescheduled for two nights before the movie is released.

- Various international showings of the movie were delayed to take place after the American premiere to avoid allowing critic and audience reviews from being released before the movie's premiere in its biggest market.

- Kate Mara says that Susan Storm is adopted from Kosovo instead of being American-born.

- Toby Kebbell confirms Victor's surname is Von Doom and not Domashev, and dismisses the rumors that he was an anti-social hacker.

- The movie is privately screened at Atlanta, with Kate Mara, Michael B. Jordan, and Jamie Bell present. They're reported to have left the screening before the film started
 
Even without the fanwank in it im too skeptical of the accounting. It's mostly rumours so who knows if we'll get any real information on this down the line.
 

tomtom94

Member
I mean you only need to read the phrase "rewriting on set" to know that this was going to be a disaster.



Also, people are STILL claiming there wasn't a significantly racist element to the backlash against Jordan's casting? Mother of god.
 
or set-ups that frankly make no sense at all (Magneto somehow reprogramming the Sentinels to obey him by melding metal girders into their frames and CPUs; somehow I don't think that's how AI programming works). It was a good movie but the writing was frequently the worst part of it.

He didn't reprogram them at all, he controls their joints like marionettes. Hence the metal threading. The point was to make the public think the sentinels programming was out of control and a public liability. When he says "do what you made for" he releases it to go and beat the shit out of a mutant, which is what it was programmed to do.
 
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