I'll post today's results later. How many hours of failure should I expect?
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT6| Casino Royale
- Thread starter tiggerkiddo
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Except you get your tp back before that ever becomes an issue?
WHOOPS NEW DRAGOON FORGOT TO POP INVIGORATE AND HIS SPRINT RAN OUT MIDWAY GG
Man, it's hard to say. It's all up to the quality of the players on your team. Lots of personal responsibility on everyone.
Pellegri Testament
Member
Wut? Why would you ever not have a bard this far into endgame? Unless you're going caster only, which even then bard buffs them, then I would seriously question how anyone would ever get to t9 without a bard, it's required if you have any melee other than tanks.
Seriously if you are even attempting t9 without a bard and even a single melee in the party, then give up now. You are not downing t9 without being massively overgeared without one and you sure as hell aren't going to see any phases worth mentioning in t10+.
This pretty much. Proper invig management means you don't even have to worry about tp as anything until the final 2 phases. Save invig for once you start the run and you'll be full on tp by the time golems spawn, for tanks it doesn't even matter since 600+ tp by golems is more than enough to hold agro on them or the boss, especially with the downtime they can have if you kill golems fast enough. If someone doesn't know how to properly use invig at this point though....why are they even in t9?
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
With invigorate my TP's pretty much up to full by the time the meteors land. As PLD OT, I never got too far into the last phase so maybe problems crop up later, but I had a healthy amount of TP after megaflare as I recall.
Probably a few. You can't really pass DPS checks when your party is all lying on the floor learning mechanics. Also just try and drill people to stay where they need to be, Lunar Dynamo eats people normally in the first phases when learning. It's just too quick.
New group, one of the members is currently leveling his BARD so he can take the role. (For which I am immensely thankful! Bard's are surprisingly hard to find, I guess they get snatched up real quick.)
Mainly just practicing the early phases of T9 right now. Though I'm pugging T9 on my own time as well.
Unless he all of a sudden finds 7 amazing players who for some reason didn't do T9 before even though they are amazing, expect double digit hour failure rate.
I personally think pugging a turn when your team is doing it is disrespectful to your team. If you're serious about your group, you want to clear at the same time with the rest. It's a unifying experience and builds up your team.
crazygambit
Member
Last night I blew up 5 straight 50% infusions on my animus. Luckily they were only tier II so, only like 12k a pop, but I gave up without getting it done at that point.
Edit: I also blew a 96% one. RNG gonna RNG I guess.
Yeah, realistically you might just spend the day raiding learning a single phase and still not make it very far, it really just depends how quickly the team picks up the mechanics. A number of them can just cause you to explode immediately. Don't focus so much on time and just worry about learning the pattern. Once you know what's coming in each phase the song and dance doesn't seem nearly as daunting.
I dunno, it's always good to have somebody who's ahead of the curve and can lead the rest to victory. It's not worth it wiping for hours out of pride that doesn't let you look up a guide or a ready method THIS late. Unless you really appreciate trial and error design approach of Mr. D.
Meh, I prefer just spreading out and manually moving Meteors around. No latency / rubberbanding / etc. shenanigans to screw with that. And it's still just as simple.
I believe you meant to ask how many days.
I think I'd agree if it was still on lockout.
But it's not. Get that experience. Especially for a fight like T9 which is pretty much script memorization.
I believe you meant to ask how many days.
I think I'd agree if it was still on lockout.
But it's not. Get that experience. Especially for a fight like T9 which is pretty much script memorization.
cultureculture
Member
What's wrong with Ingenuity 2?
First time seriously doing racecar had two people lag spiking (mine up to 600+ at times, up from ~80ms) and normal Level3 routing rubberbanding issues.
It was less than pleasant. At least when that happens with a spread out method the only one that suffers is me.
I still have to disagree completely. The only time you shouldn't be going into a turn with pugs is if it has a lockout and your group is still running that week. Otherwise, it's all pros and no cons. Practice for yourself, seeing the fight through fresh eyes with little nuances to the strat, and on the off chance you actually get a clear with strangers and win a piece of loot, you've just brought back higher gear to your group that you won't need to worry about goin forward when it's farm time (and it will make subsequent attempts in that turn easier).
Really, any argument against it is based off of some weird sense of ....pride is the wrong word but I can't think of anything else. Clearing a fight as a team is completely different than clearing it by yourself and is still satisfying in its own right because it means more when you can say that you have this group that can do this content consistently. Clearing once on your own is whatever, it's not like you are going to repeat that feat on a consistent basis without more growing pains with a new pug group.
Now yes, if you have an immature ass that comes back and is always complaining about how the group is holding him/her back because they can get clears on their own then that is a fundamental problem with the person and they shouldn't have been in that group to begin with. A normal person would come back with ideas on how to improve the fight for their group.
A few things.
First: My group knows that I pug T9. It's not on lockout and I have more time to play than they do, so there's no reason for me not to.
Second: The more I practice that fight, the easier it'll be to offer insights and tips to the rest of said group.
Third: In an only peripherally related note, they're actually picking up mechanics reasonably quickly, considering they've only seen the fight for like an hour total. (Started getting to the Golem phase semi-regularly, with decent positioning on meteors.)
Fourth:
First: My group knows that I pug T9. It's not on lockout and I have more time to play than they do, so there's no reason for me not to.
Second: The more I practice that fight, the easier it'll be to offer insights and tips to the rest of said group.
Third: In an only peripherally related note, they're actually picking up mechanics reasonably quickly, considering they've only seen the fight for like an hour total. (Started getting to the Golem phase semi-regularly, with decent positioning on meteors.)
Fourth:
Really wish people wouldn't quote Tabris when he directs comments towards me. Not even sure why he's doing it at this point. (sigh)
Wah wah, you're both prominent members of the same community. Gonna have to learn to deal.
Pellegri Testament
Member
Are other people in your group pugging as well? Because no matter what your role is, you having that extra experience isn't going to mean jack if everyone else is just sitting there on what they learn when your group goes in. T9 and quite a few of the other turns are meant to be learned as a group so you can work together to work out your strengths and weaknesses, going solo doing your own thing isn't doing jack when your own group may be better at doing something completely different than whatever you saw in a pug.
Saying what mechanics are just because you've seen them in a pug, is about as effective as everyone just watching a video unless more people in your group are also pugging. There's enough text and video guides out there by now that anyone can have an idea going in, a single guy acting as a guide is pretty much just accomplishing what any video could also do, unless people aren't watching something for whatever reason.
Because you always take the bait. Always.
Just let it go. even if people quote him, just roll your eyes and move on. Nobody will think less of you for it.
Because we're having a discussion too, regardless of it being a comment of yours originally.
To be fair, it'll be really nice for T9 to have people with experience in the final phase for the sake of how the elemental-dance works and divebombs.
But, yes, each group has their own ways to tackle certain mechanics that pugs won't really help with.
I realize this. Pugging it on my only will only marginally reduce the group learning time, (if that.) However, again, there's no reason not to when it's off lockout, the experience may be helpful.
Also, it's not as if I have any other fights to tackle at this moment.
This isn't true at all. At the end of the day, there are things that the solo player needs to practice. I went into T10 the other day with a group and my sole purpose was to get my own practice in dodging others with heat lighting while traveling with the tether or wild charge marker.
It's all a matter of what works best for your group in the end. We do race car because we have people with latency issues and that was the only method that worked for them and the group as a whole. With race car, it doesn't matter if Scything* sees a meteor 5 seconds after everyone else as long as he runs around the circle like the rest of us. (*Names resembling any real person may or may not be coincidental)
I understand you not necessarily wanting to read particular people's comments, but at the same time, people are allowed to quote and reply to who ever they choose to. It sucks, but sometimes you just have to recognize that people say things you don't like or don't agree with or even don't want to hear and sometimes you just have to choose to ignore it and carry on.
If you understand the underlying workings of the battle there's no reason you can't instantly adapt to changes in the approach that can't sway that far anyway because of how tight the scripts are. I did racecar and I did spread, in different configurations. I had to tank the blue golem, I had to tank the red golem, sometimes I didn't, it didn't matter. Oh, so the group prefers this order, meaning there's probably gonna be Demolish, meaning I have to be here at this time for an extra medica. No biggie. Japanese tank Nael in the middle during phase 1 apparently, I didn't get a chance to do that but it's really nothing different. Even phase 4 I had a chance to do different things in. We did static divebomb marks, we did dynamic divebomb marks, then I switched to scholar and instantly knew what I was doing because I know the fight and the class and I observed what scholars were doing when I was WHM. Group synergy is a thing in this game, yes, but it comes from individual responsibility and personal skill. A lot of people learn the fights in one particular way, or are overly reliant on their raidcaller, then they try to pug and face problems which they shouldn't.
This is true of nearly every fight in this game.
I might also add, that I'm the sort of person that needs to do content on a semi-regular basis, to keep rust from accumulating. I do eventually reach the point where I can shake off said rust on a particular fight, with relative ease, but I haven't reached that point with T9 yet.
Total, I've probably spent less than twenty hours on the fight. Didn't even really touch it from August (first few times I saw it,) till around a week and a half before patch.
Total, I've probably spent less than twenty hours on the fight. Didn't even really touch it from August (first few times I saw it,) till around a week and a half before patch.
Costs too much CP and doesn't do much for four-star crafting and the new recipe books. CP is love, CP is life. Conserve all the CP.
I feel like that's usually the problem. A lot of people understand the what to do but the full why that's the solution and how to utilize that information to adapt is something most people don't do.
This is how you get pugs that have clears but can't do it simply because they get what to do and sort of get why they do it (e.g., meteors not too close or else lolsplosions) but can't adapt on the fly when it goes awkward.
TheDancingWatermelon
Member
For four star I'd agree, but for the HQ three stars for the new books you can PbP twice and Ing2/SH2/RS/RS and be a turn away. Its a perfectly viable strat as seen on the OF and reddit, and its how I've done all of mine so far, including getting it done with just the lvl 50 CRP AF weapon.
(I hope Korra doesn't mind me using him as an example)
This is very true and one of the reasons why I think people should pug more when realistically able and see how other groups do things. It helps raise your own awareness and understanding of mechanics. I remember there was a night Korra was trying to help another group with a T8 clear and he got into the last phase with them and got ready to explain the tower order when he realized he didn't really know what order we did things in because he was reliant on my calls. Not a bad thing but it helped him understand the fight better as an individual (I hope)
Hmm. I cannot remember the progress rotation for the books that didn't require Ing2. I will have to test it out this weekend. Maybe it involved another RS? I'd rather have all that extra CP at the end for delaying the use of Byregot's for a Good/Excellent.
I've not seen a single pug group that could consistently, (over the course of an hour,) avoid Meteor explosions. Most common culprit in my experience, is healers not properly healing Impact damage, until somebody goes down mid-run with a meteor mark.
The only groups I've been in, that've been able to avoid meteor issues, are GAF groups, and it's pretty rare for any of them to need a sub. Plus, most of them are on Final Coil now. <_<;;
The only groups I've been in, that've been able to avoid meteor issues, are GAF groups, and it's pretty rare for any of them to need a sub. Plus, most of them are on Final Coil now. <_<;;
TheDancingWatermelon
Member
No doubt, to each there own! Just saying it is viable on them, although I'd definetly agree about its waste of CP/cross skill slot on 4 stars, at least how I've been doing them anyways.
That's probably true and all but I mean ... the original point was just about knowing the how and why of the mechanics. Divebombs are probably the best example I can think of for something people just hope for calls and do it since them tunneling elsewhere is more important / better overall.
That said, I'm pretty sure it's: 12 / North set: 2 and 9 (NE and W), 6 / South set: 5 and 10 (SE and NW), and neither of those: 7 and 12 (SW and N). But I'm not sure enough to do it on the fly for the first time or anything like that.
cultureculture
Member
That's good to know, thanks for the tip. I'll mess around next time I'm making the silk and see what I come out with.
WeaponKnight
Member
Yep! If something works, then it works. I am curious about your craftsmanship and control on the CRP when you were doing the recipe synths.
Our raid wipes even if someone does say where it's at. Some of us are still working on our ABCs.
I take res precedence over a lot of people in that phase because you can't put down markers when you're dead.
We had a guy who couldn't count to two and went to the second point with the first marker. Aww.
Shame that most groups I've been in haven't been able to make the transition into this phase smoothly enough to start practicing it. Divebomb placement doesn't sound, "THAT," complex, at least on paper, but on paper means very little until you've seen it a few times and can start practicing it.
Guess I better just, study videos and such closely, until either my group gets that.
HF -> Elementals phase transition is the hardest thing there actually. Very narrow windows, and if you get Nael to 47 at a wrong time it's an instant failure, no recovery possible.
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