Support NeoGAF

[hyperbertha]

Did I hurt your feelings?
I say that the pause based combat is archaic and it’s not wrong. I am not saying it’s bad. personally I would not be interested in turn based ff at all. As I’ve said. It was done this way years ago because action was difficult.
Souls and dmc sound amazing for new ff.

Ff7 remake combat is better than xv. Xv combat is bizarre and not very good
edit: also... why would I want to ask character to perform an action rather than performing it myself?! It does not negate rpg aspects

It is wrong tho? Turn based has so many advantages over real time. It's not like there weren't real-time combat back in the 90s. Turn based was mostly a design choice.

 

[adamsapple]

Wasn't that one of the legit biggest criticisms against Babylon's Fall, that it was straight up repurposing FF14 assets ?

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Azelover]

I never thought I would say this but, I have almost no interest in this game. A far thing to think considering I was a mad fan of the series until after X.

 

[fallingdove]

What did Final fantasy VII remake sell so far? I think a devil may cry sequel to final fantasy XV is going to struggle to be honest. High fantasy setting as well which graphically looks like a good ps4 pro game.

I'll deffo play it at some point but it doesn't look like a final fantasy game to me, looks like a ditch effort by square to try something completely new to save the franchise.

I don't get how you have final fantasy that isn't an rpg.

All in on ff vii part two later this year though.

Every Final Fantasy tries to do something different than it’s predecessor.

It’s also weird for you to discount FFXVI and immediately follow up that you can’t wait to play FF7 part 2. Both of the games are JRPGs and both of them will do fine.

I love the large party-focused, turn based Final Fantasies of the past but there are 10+ titles that I can go back and play if I am itching for menu-driven combat.

 

[SkylineRKR]

i was talking about KH2 and KH1 lol, i never played KH3 & dont care to either
KH2 has an amazingly indepth combat system though especially on critical difficulty

KH3 critical is even better. The vanilla game was eh, but after the upgrade and the critical mode release KH3 might be my number one KH game. You can even fully disable the attractions (and instead, they give you form change points). KH3 critical is incredibly tough at first, but after dozens of deaths in world 1 I barely died.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

It's ok to enjoy action combat, I also enjoy it on other games such as Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma.
At the same time, it would be a fallacy to state that it's an "evolution" of combat.
Would Chess "evolve" if it became "real time"? It's an entirely different type of game.
Not better, not worse -- different.
It's clear they changed to profit more, not because of that being the "natural progression of things".


Yeah I read that a couple of years ago. That's why I said I'm not too optimistic about it.
I still have hope Yuji Horii will try to keep the series intact, but we'll see.


RPG combat usually emphasizes character skill rather than player skill.
The more a game emphasizes player skill, the more action-oriented it becomes (i.e. Action-RPG)

The Witcher is more action-oriented.
Vagrant Story allows free movement but the game "pauses" every time an action is performed. The action doesn't happen in "real time" like in The Witcher, so the strategy part is more emphasized than pure reflex. FF12 kinda resembles it regarding the free movement, but with a more traditional ATB system. I would be fine if a new FF used the FF12 combat system.

The problem is making FF reflex-based, with dodging and all that. That's just silly.

oooohhhh i get it now.

So your issue it changing from a Strategy RPG to an Action RPG.

ok, fair enough... that doesn't make this a bad FF game though. maybe with FF17 they go back to SRpg.

 

[Big Baller]

I never thought I would say this but, I have almost no interest in this game. A far thing to think considering I was a mad fan of the series until after X.

This is the first FF im hyped for. Never really did give a shit about the series prior.

 

[Balducci30]

I dunno, the whole point of the final fantasy series to me was that they switch it up drastically between titles. So I don’t get the hate — looks like a cool game with an interesting world

 

[remember_spinal]

Also funny that peopel are acting like they were caught off guard with the battle system being action based since we’ve known since the first trailer in 2020 that it was real time action based combat. They’ve since confirmed it in multiple teasers over the past two years, and even stated the combat designer from DMCV was doing it.

Fake outrage because the harsh reality is setting in that the game is looking to review really well and people will have to go out and buy a ps5 to play it. No more downplaying the catalogue with cross gen games this year

 

[Valonquar]

Wasn't that one of the legit biggest criticisms against Babylon's Fall, that it was straight up repurposing FF14 assets ?

Well FF14 repurposed nearly all enemy models from FF11, 12, and 13. They're higher poly versions, but they usually have the same skeleton and animations. Instead of palette swaps we get blinding amounts of particle effects... YAY.

Don't get me wrong, this game is gonna be fuckin awesome. Can't wait.

 

[swaffles23]

Ive loved everything I've seen so far. Easily my most anticipated game this year. I don't understand the people that say this isn't Final Fantasy. They all have a different feel and there's no single way a FF game should be. I honestly love Yoshida's vision of FF. He's exactly what the franchise has needed

Not gonna lie, FF7R combat is KING though

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Glad to see FF finally picking up where XII left off after almost two decades of reprehensible failure

 

[fart town usa]

Looks dope, will be the first mainline FF entry I've played at launch since FF13. (Not counting FF7R)

 

[Valonquar]

SE store has pre-orders up for the Collector's Edition for the low low price of $349 plus another $40 in shipping fees and tax.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Not sold on Ifrit's design overall, the other eikons look cool though

 

[Kev Kev]

It'd be nice to see some of these "semi-open" or "zone" areas they've talked about. The linearity and lack of explorable areas is concerning but everything else looked really nice in the preview.

 

[oji-san]

I'm trying to understand how's the combat works, i didn't like XV combat, from what i remember it's only mashing the circle button to attack, and 7R was better but was more about abilities iirc. So in this do we get like a proper action game combat? with combos and such? if so then i will be extremely pleased.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I'm trying to understand how's the combat works, i didn't like XV combat, from what i remember it's only mashing the circle button to attack, and 7R was better but was more about abilities iirc. So in this do we get like a proper action game combat? with combos and such? if so then i will be extremely pleased.

It looks like Devil May Cry.

 

[Felessan]

It's ok to enjoy action combat, I also enjoy it on other games such as Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma.
At the same time, it would be a fallacy to state that it's an "evolution" of combat.
Would Chess "evolve" if it became "real time"? It's an entirely different type of game.
Not better, not worse -- different.
It's clear they changed to profit more, not because of that being the "natural progression of things".

It is an evolution. JRPG as a whole start to delve into more modern - i.e. realtime combat very long time ago, Tales of series had realtime combat from time immemorial. A lot of much more niche than FF series have and had realtime or mixed combat - i.e. it's not really directly related with "we explicitly doing this for money"
Realtime combat allow more flexibility and more complex mechanics and generally more interesting for public - same way as turn based strategies became niche after computing power allowed real-time combat in strategies.

RPG combat usually emphasizes character skill rather than player skill.
The more a game emphasizes player skill, the more action-oriented it becomes (i.e. Action-RPG)

It's an outdated aproach. Modern aproach is to link player skills in both "physical" (i.e. reaction) and "mental" (i.e. metagaming and min-maxing) areas to make them dependant on and complement each other.
YoshiP has 10 years of FF14 behind his back, he know for sure how engaging and interesting combat should look like.

 

[hyperbertha]

Also funny that peopel are acting like they were caught off guard with the battle system being action based since we’ve known since the first trailer in 2020 that it was real time action based combat. They’ve since confirmed it in multiple teasers over the past two years, and even stated the combat designer from DMCV was doing it.

Fake outrage because the harsh reality is setting in that the game is looking to review really well and people will have to go out and buy a ps5 to play it. No more downplaying the catalogue with cross gen games this year

impressive you still managed to spin this into ps5 vs xbox. The 'outrage' is justified when ff goes dmc style for its combat. Not everything is about your stupid underpowered plastic box.

 

[remember_spinal]

impressive you still managed to spin this into ps5 vs xbox. The 'outrage' is justified when ff goes dmc style for its combat. Not everything is about your stupid underpowered plastic box.

Its not justified, if you don’t like the direction of this specific Final Fantasy game wait for the next one. You’re not entitled to a turn based game lol

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

It is wrong tho? Turn based has so many advantages over real time. It's not like there weren't real-time combat back in the 90s. Turn based was mostly a design choice.

I wouldn’t go so far to say that turn based combat is solely due to technological limitations and is now obsolete. But I do think that is the case for the Final Fantasy series.

There’s never been anything particularly strategic about the battle system in FF. They moved away from strict turn-based to a real time queue-based system with ATB in FF4. 12, 13, 15, and 7 Remake were all about making it so you don’t have to manually choose every action for every character.

The closest mainline FF ever got to “strategic turn based” was FFX, and their idea of strategy was “just swap in whatever character can hurt this enemy” and kinda sucked IMO.

 

[remember_spinal]

I wouldn’t go so far to say that turn based combat is solely due to technological limitations and is now obsolete. But I do think that is the case for the Final Fantasy series.

There’s never been anything particularly strategic about the battle system in FF. They moved away from strict turn-based to a real time queue-based system with ATB in FF4. 12, 13, 15, and 7 Remake were all about making it so you don’t have to manually choose every action for every character.

The closest mainline FF ever got to “strategic turn based” was FFX, and their idea of strategy was “just swap in whatever character can hurt this enemy” and kinda sucked IMO.

The most advanced turn based combat ever got in FF was in 12 and people bitched and moaned about the gambit system also.

Most rpgs are either some rock paper scissor style premise. Like persona or pokemon, or just straight up wait, attack, attack, attack, heal, magic like Dragon Quest. Turn based combat has evolved very little over the course of like 30 years.

Divinity Oirginal sin was one of the first games in a long time i felt like really elevated the idea of it with two damage meters and area elemental attacks that inflict different status effects

 

[Danjin44]

Let go of archaic turn based mechanics. These only existed because current tech didn't allow to make it more real time.
We can do it better, why not do it?

Look at mass effect 2 compared to 1? It does not have to be a bad thing

You do know games like Star Ocean and Tales of that had action combat existed in old days?

For fuck sake, your are more than free not to like turned based combat but that just complete BS.

 

[rofif]

You do know games like Star Ocean and Tales of that had action combat existed in old days?

For fuck sake, your are more than free not to like turned based combat but that just complete BS.

I don't believe it's bs.
There is probably some merit to this. If you went back in time and showed modern action game to 1990s developer... and told them they can make this or turn based combat? I don't know man.

Anyway - plenty of turn based games out there. I've enjoyed plenty myself.

 

[Danjin44]

It's the in thing to do nowadays, like From reinvented the wheels. Dodge, dodge, drink potion, slash dodge etc.. I love souls games and Elden ring is a masterpiece but come on

Please tell me you are joking?…..please? You do know you have games like Bayonetta that one of its main mechanics is dodging.

oh look I guess DMC is dark souls clone?

 

[Danjin44]

I don't believe it's bs.
There is probably some merit to this. If you went back in time and showed modern action game to 1990s developer... and told them they can make this or turn based combat? I don't know man.

Anyway - plenty of turn based games out there. I've enjoyed plenty myself.

Turn based is just another combat system that has existed long time same as FPS. I don’t like FPS games but with that logic that means it’s outdated because I don’t like it? So yes I would absolutely call it BS.

 

[OuterLimits]

The story better be halfway decent if I have to endure 11 friggin hours of cinematic cutscenes.

 

[Beastclaw Raider]

Please tell me you are joking?…..please? You do know you have games like Bayonetta that one of its main mechanics is dodging.

oh look I guess DMC is dark souls clone?

Nah, it is what it is. These game mechanics are old as hell, people now claiming games are ripping Souls games is just pathetic.

 

[Lethal01]

ff7 remake was crap

If that's true then this game is the maggots inside the crap

As even 16's creator said that the system of remake is the ideal

 

[E-Cat]

Some people reading this will probably be alive to see Final Fantasy XXX.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

It doesn’t look like a FromSoftware game at all.

It looks like Horizon/God of War/Sony 1st Party Exclusive mixed with DMC.

Which is unfortunate because I’ve never cared for Sony’s 1st party games. But what can you do

I meant the art direction and character design.
I prefer my FF more 10-2 than tactics.

 

[Danjin44]

I meant the art direction and character design.
I prefer my FF more 10-2 than tactics.

What you are saying you are more used to Nomura design in your Final Fantasy, having dark medieval setting doesn't automatically make it look like "Souls" game. Drakengard existed before Demons Souls.

As for it character design, its much more similar to FF XIV since same team working on FFXVI.

You guys really need stop comparing everything to Souls, or is Souls series only game you guys ever played?

 

[DragoonWalker]

Fingers crossed this will be another Final Fantasy that's consistently good all the way through. I don't care to play the FFVII remake, and I haven't found any of the entries satisfying since X. Even XII was a mixed bag.

 

[Danjin44]

I guess Last Bible special considered Dark Souls clone.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

I meant the art direction and character design.
I prefer my FF more 10-2 than tactics.

Oh, my bad!

I agree.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

What you are saying you are more used to Nomura design in your Final Fantasy, having dark medieval setting doesn't automatically make it look like "Souls" game. Drakengard existed before Demons Souls.

As for it character design, its much more similar to FF XIV since same team working on FFXVI.

You guys really need stop comparing everything to Souls, or is Souls series only game guys ever played?

You need to relax, first your “I have my Atelier, my whatevergame, and I have my FFXVI. I couldn’t be happier” post, which had an air of “people who are complaining are just whiny and ungrateful,” and now this. People are allowed to voice their disappointments and frustrations.

From footage we’ve seen thus far, the game isn’t very colorful. It just is what it is.




For me, personally? I would be ok with all these changes (even though I prefer actual party members + a more colorful art direction), but if this game really has no CGI cinematics, then I’m pissed off. Sounds really silly, I’m sure, but I like my FF cinematics.

 

[Danjin44]

You need to relax, first your “I have my Atelier, my whatevergame, and I have my FFXVI. I couldn’t be happier” post, which had an air of “people who are complaining are just whiny and ungrateful,” and now this. People are allowed to voice their disappointments and frustrations.

From footage we’ve seen thus far, the game isn’t very colorful. It just is what it is.




For me, personally? I would be ok with all these changes (even though I prefer actual party members + a more colorful art direction), but if this game really has no CGI cinematics, then I’m pissed off. Sounds really silly, I’m sure, but I like my FF cinematics.

You are free not be in to the direction they going but what is the logic just comparing everything to "Souls" exactly? Thats not proper criticism.

I'm sick of people comparing everything to Souls, as if the only people ever played in their life is Souls games.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I wouldn’t go so far to say that turn based combat is solely due to technological limitations and is now obsolete. But I do think that is the case for the Final Fantasy series.

There’s never been anything particularly strategic about the battle system in FF. They moved away from strict turn-based to a real time queue-based system with ATB in FF4. 12, 13, 15, and 7 Remake were all about making it so you don’t have to manually choose every action for every character.

The closest mainline FF ever got to “strategic turn based” was FFX, and their idea of strategy was “just swap in whatever character can hurt this enemy” and kinda sucked IMO.

Ffx combat was really good. You're spouting off opinions. Turn based can be good like persona and smt. Real time can SUCK too if not done well. I fired up ff15 yesterday for the first time in ages and man that was a sloppy system. Very minimal strategy. I'm not saying this to slight ffxvi I have high hopes that they will nail it here.

Most jrpg combat systems are not great imo- real time or turn based

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Ffx combat was really good. You're spouting off opinions. Turn based can be good like persona and smt. Real time can SUCK too if not done well. I fired up ff15 yesterday for the first time in ages and man that was a sloppy system. Very minimal strategy. I'm not saying this to slight ffxvi I have high hopes that they will nail it here.

Most jrpg combat systems are not great imo- real time or turn based

When an FF game nails combat (FF10, 12, 7R and 13 to an extent), it's always a bonus for me. However I play FF games for story, world and character building presented with cutting edge visuals/presentation, as has been the case since the SNES era. I think that's creators of the series have always seen that as the pillar for FF rather than combat, as it's remained consistent, whilst the combat system has had fundamental changes with each consecutive entry since FF7 on PS1.

 

[vodka-bull]

June 22nd, will be my first Final Fantasy I‘m buying at release. Dead Island in April, Tears of the Kingdom in may, FF16 in June, that‘s gonna be a great year for me

 

[Pedro Motta]

The fact you can't even use the other party members makes this game sorely lacking. Especially for a jrpg.

Do you control other characters in Elden Ring? Or Skyrim? Are they not RPGs?
You people stretch so hard to downplay..

 

[Danjin44]

Do you control other characters in Elden Ring? Or Skyrim? Are they not RPGs?
You people stretch so hard to downplay..

People just have shallow view of JRPG or any RPG for that matter, I myself also really like party based RPGs but I can also enjoy games like Nier who can only control one character.

In fact Nier Replicant even without party system Kaine, Emil and Grimoire Weiss and had amazing character development.

 

[Kev Kev]

I play FF games for story, world and character building presented with cutting edge visuals/presentation

I think a lot of FF fans agree with this, which is why FF16 seems to be getting so much love.

Personally, I'm more into adventure, exploration, fun gameplay loop, mechanics/systems that feel smooth and rewarding, towns, weapons and armor, different methods of traversal to further explore and expand the adventure, and things of that nature. Story and graphics are very low on my list of importance in an FF. It's just different strokes for different folks, and all that. I hope you enjoy the game.

 

[Valonquar]

I just hope they have a better final chapter than FF12. That last boss was pretty lame.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Do you control other characters in Elden Ring? Or Skyrim? Are they not RPGs?
You people stretch so hard to downplay..

All the games you listed are not party based rpgs. The closest comparison to this game would be Tales Of Arise.

 

[MagiusNecros]

From a glance this just seems like a Single Player FFXIV with an actual good battle system. General gist seems to be a revenge story. The Dark Fantasy aspect is appealing to me. I'm hopeful there can be something close to Lord of the Rings or Legacy of Kain here storywise but that seems doubtful. Tall order to live up to.

If they do anything I certainly hope the entirety of the story is illustrated ingame and not through a text supplement. That shit was garbage in XIII and Type 0 and shall be garbage here if implemented.

When it comes to reused assets I'm seeing a lot of reused enemies and bosses from FFXIV not to mention the big bosses also have those telegraphed AoEs in fights.

The production value makes it very clear that a lot of the money going into FFXIV was funneled into XVI.

Final Fantasy at it's core has always been Japanese Dungeons and Dragons. The Turn based systems or Action based systems alongside controlling either 1 or more more characters ultimately is insignificant.

In this game the story is about Clive and not a party of heroes. Yoshi P stated that he wanted to make a game where the main character is the Hero and not a sidepiece like the Warrior of Light is in FFXIV.

There will be a party that Clive groups with but the focus is still going to be on Clive. Especially given that we are going to go through a scenario where Clive starts as a child > young adult > adult phases in the story.

 

[Pedro Motta]

All the games you listed are not party based rpgs. The closest comparison to this game would be Tales Of Arise.

Newsflash: FF 14, 15 and 16 and a few others before are not party based.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Newsflash: FF 14, 15 and 16 and a few others before are not party based.

15 is party based and even lets you switch characters in realtime.