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[Gestault]

Is this already known?
http://www.forzamotorsport.fr/news/53-traces-et-11-000-calques-pour-forza-motorsport-5-163331.html

Its a french site, i translatetd it with google and the guy says that there are 11.000 possible layers on a car =)

Interesting:

When choosing the circuit, I could browse the fourteen environments offered by Forza Motorsport 5 and count the number of versions of each. Here is the list of 57 tracks available:
Bernese Alps (6 plots)
Circuit de Catalunya (3 plots)
Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps (Track 1)
Indianapolis Motor Speedway (2 plots)
Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans (Three tracks, including the Bugatti)
Mazda Speedway Laguna Seca (Track 1)
Mount Panorama Motor Racing Circuit (Track 1)
Tour of Prague (4 plots)
Road Atlanta (2 plots)
Sebring International Raceway (3 plots)
Silverstone (3 plots)
Test Track Airfield (12 tracks)
Top Gear Test Track (7 tracks)
Yas Marina Circuit (5 plots)

I went to have a look at the editor delivered propose that total 11,000 layers . It will be possible to create 3000 layers on larger surfaces (both sides and hood / roof), and 1000 for smaller faces (front bumper and rear). By cons, it will not be possible to import vinyl groups created in the previous Forza, which, with a change of platform, was almost inevitable.

 

[soundscream]

I never go over the limit but I just want to see whats possible. Pictures I Need Em!!!!!!

 

[Cipher Soze]

I never go over the limit but I just want to see whats possible. Pictures I Need Em!!!!!!

Well if remember correctly my Avatar is 937 layers so with 3000 pretty much any subject can be painted now.

 

[guitarhero]

3000 layers per side? Now THAT's next-gen power, right there.

 

[Shortt Sirket]

Shortt Skirt, we need to get an active list of players for the new Forza so we can start adding each other and coordinating sessions.

I can modify the Google Doc we never really got to use in F4. That had GAF names, LIVE names, playing times, etc. I can try to get that up soon and Zorbsie can link it in the OT.

I was helping Shortt Sirket with it, but I think I'm doing it all now. I thought we were going with the orange peel tag. Can't remember it exactly "something something orange peel next gen feel." I'll find it, give me a minute.

EDIT: OK I found it. Forza Motorsport 5 |OT| Open wheel, tyre squeal, orange peel, dat next-gen feel
It was started by Cowboy and reworked by Mascot.

Yeah, I'm sorry man, I just don't have the time I thought I would. I am still willing to help in any ways you might need. But let's be honest, you pretty much did all of the Horizon OT. You got this!

 

[Terbinator]

So are we 1080p native then or 540p?

 

[Seanspeed]

It might use a dynamic frame buffer, à la WipEout HD. It would at least go part of the way to explaining how T10 have managed '1080p'60 where even a cross-gen COD game can only manage an uneven 720p60. It would also explain why people are reporting bad aliasing.

Oh wow, you're still desperately clinging onto this, aren't you?

 

[sportzhead]

This might interest you. Google translate unless you speak French.

http://www.forzamotorsport.fr/news/53-traces-et-11-000-calques-pour-forza-motorsport-5-163331.html

The gist of it is ---- 3000 layers on each side, 3000 layers on the roof and hood/bonnet, and 1000 on the front and rear!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That will make a hell of a difference to me and other Forza virtual jigsaw players.


Edit: Beaten....

The car painting has me more excited than the actual racing. When I finally get an X1 (whenever that may be) it will be to paint cars in Forza. Such an amazing feature.

 

[Fun Factor]

Interesting:

When choosing the circuit, I could browse the fourteen environments offered by Forza Motorsport 5 and count the number of versions of each. Here is the list of 57 tracks available:
Bernese Alps (6 plots)
Circuit de Catalunya (3 plots)
Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps (Track 1)
Indianapolis Motor Speedway (2 plots)
Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans (Three tracks, including the Bugatti)
Mazda Speedway Laguna Seca (Track 1)
Mount Panorama Motor Racing Circuit (Track 1)
Tour of Prague (4 plots)
Road Atlanta (2 plots)
Sebring International Raceway (3 plots)
Silverstone (3 plots)
Test Track Airfield (12 tracks)
Top Gear Test Track (7 tracks)
Yas Marina Circuit (5 plots)

That's the official track selection?
So 57 tracks split among 16 environments?

 

[Gestault]

That's the official track selection?
So 57 tracks split among 16 environments?

It's in the article from a pre-final preview event, but it looks a whole lot like it (14 rather than 16). Previously there had been mention of free day-1 car/track content packs, but we haven't heard any updates on that anytime lately.

 

[sportzhead]

Test Track Airfield (12 tracks)
Top Gear Test Track (7 tracks)

Blurg.

 

[phosphor112]

This is what B3D resident rez counter has to say about the issue:
.

So I would stop using it as evidence that F5 is not 1080p. The issue lies elsewhere. Besides, if you are so good with pixel counting, do attempt counting the numerous other videos out there.

Then why isn't the issue on the UI itself? Also, if I didn't have a full time job, maybe I would do that. But I'm a busy guy. It's already hard enough to count through the AA that most games have these days.

EDIT: No, it doesn't show up in the rest of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhe6jV-APwM

EDIT 2: I'm not gonna bother, I already said the other videos that p3 linked to don't have a problem, but that video in the Xbox UI demo is showing a Forza 5 that's running in half vertical resolution.

 

[dejay]

Surprised they only got 4 ribbons out of Prague. Seems like a no brainer, if you're not adhering strictly to the real street layout anyway, to get another 2 or 3 ribbons out of it.

 

[yellow submarine]

7 tracks from the top gear test track? How is that even possible -- full, mirrored, reverse, reverse-mirrored. And 3 more unknown variations?

 

[soundscream]

7 tracks from the top gear test track? How is that even possible -- full, mirrored, reverse, reverse-mirrored. And 3 more unknown variations?

http://forzamotorsport.net/en-US/fm4/tracks.aspx?t=TopGear_Test_Track

 

[Gestault]

Then why isn't the issue on the UI itself? Also, if I didn't have a full time job, maybe I would do that. But I'm a busy guy. It's already hard enough to count through the AA that most games have these days.

EDIT: No, it doesn't show up in the rest of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhe6jV-APwM

I've chosen three elements at native resolution to show where the aliasing we're talking about shows up places you seem to be missing. These were on the dual-screen display during the demonstration. One is in the UI of Forza, the next is on the pants of the real-life players, and the third is the white sideline on the field in real-life. Now to be fair, I notice more aliasing in the full-screen versions of these shots on the diagonals at the edge of the road than I do in the UI, but it's still present, and these show that their process is adding aliasing where it normally wouldn't be present.

And to be clear, I wish you would have answered my question earlier about how likely it is that they'd be using the latest version of the game for the OS demo. It's made even clearer how old the version of the game is by the behavior of the pop-in in the rear-view mirror, which has been dealt with in all the recent direct-feed footage we've seen demonstrated. So we have what I consider to be a very common sense explanation for why a visibly older version of the game would be used in a video like this, and I've demonstrated that their process for showing video is adding additional aliasing to even real-life imagery. You still seem very set on pressing this point.

 

[Paladin CL]

Anyone else notice the AI in this video. I loved seeing this battle and the fact that the AI seemed to be fighting for a spot rather than just barging its way in or following some scripted line.

It was actively trying to get ahead without causing a wreck..love it.

If thats the final IA color me impressed and happy about it, one of my main complains in Forza 4 its the cars crashing eachother.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

If thats the final IA color me impressed and happy about it, one of my main complains in Forza 4 its the cars crashing eachother.

I'm also interested in this. Having good A.I. does make a huge difference and if this improved Drivatar system works then I'll be impressed.

 

[Pharaoh 117]

Hey! that VS topic actually has had a nice conversation going on, you dont need to shit that either! ;pppPp

about graphics and forza, forza and graphics...
let me tell you this, and judging comparatively:
the way turn10 cut and slice their resources, for me it works better than any other way, any other developer.. you want better graphics? in expense of what? framerate? tearing? resolution? sound? physics? latency? ai? (ai not even very good, but still better than most other games.)
so, what do you want to cut? because, you know, its a closed box and all... finite resoures..

did you see in 360 many racers that where 1280x720, locked 60hz, had good sound, physics, models, and on top had more AA?
if you did, point me to them...
same thing will go this gen.. their day1 result is impressive, forza 6/7/8/9/19 will be incrementally impressive.

that is, unless you can show me another 1080/60 locked racer, with physics and models and sounds, than has more AA than forza 5.

Well, you really sound like Dan with your "limited resources" line. I know there's "limited resources" that's why I said it looks like T10 had to compromise in some places to maintain the 1080p/60fps target.

Why when you bring up graphics people always start to compare it to something else? I'm talking about FM and the evolution of graphics from 4 to 5. I'm disappointed T10 had to compromise in many of the same areas that always bothered me in the series. Xbox One is underpowered but it's still many times more powerful than the Xbox 360. We should be able to get AI cars with better LODs models and maybe with modeled interiors. Lighting is still unnatural 99% of the time, even though it looks better than 4's. In this case it's not a question of power but fine tuning the colors to look more like, you know, real life. It's a simulator for god's sake.

If people are satisfied with the game's graphics and don't want to discuss it fine, I'll not say other word. But I expected more from T10 - even though I understand it's a launch title.

yep, this was unexpected.
From what we've seen, models used in 16 cars races are lower poly than GT5's, which is unexcusable.
And yes, as with past games in the series, no self shadowing for AI cars.

That's what bothers me the most. Why was it not improved from 4? I really can't believe they could not improve it on Xbox One.

This is not true

Exterior view I could be wrong but interior really seems lacking shadows to me.

Debateable, that's not Always true

People are always bashing Forza for it's lighting and how it doesn't look real. It's absolutely the number 1 complaint the game gets everywhere.

Anisotropic is probably there to some degree, but i was expecting better considering it's almost free on modern GPU's.

Well, a lot of other next-gen games don't have it so I would not be surprised.

 

[phosphor112]

I've chosen three elements at native resolution to show where the aliasing we're talking about shows up places you seem to be missing. These were on the dual-screen display during the demonstration. One is in the UI of Forza, the next is on the pants of the real-life players, and the third is the white sideline on the field in real-life. Now to be fair, I notice more aliasing in the full-screen versions of these shots on the diagonals at the edge of the road than I do in the UI, but it's still present, and these show that their process is adding aliasing where it normally wouldn't be present.

And to be clear, I wish you would have answered my question earlier about how likely it is that they'd be using the latest version of the game for the OS demo. It's made even clearer how old the version of the game is by the behavior of the pop-in in the rear-view mirror, which has been dealt with in all the recent direct-feed footage we've seen demonstrated. So we have what I consider to be a very common sense explanation for why a visibly older version of the game would be used in a video like this, and I've demonstrated that their process for showing video is adding additional aliasing to even real-life imagery. You still seem very set on pressing this point.

If everything on the Xbox One is showing up like that, then something on the Xbox One is fucking up. Clearly Mahdi and Whitten aren't fucked up looking like that, but for some reason the rest of the screen is. Either way, something isn't going on correctly.

 

[eso76]

If everything on the Xbox One is showing up like that, then something on the Xbox One is fucking up. Clearly Mahdi and Whitten aren't fucked up looking like that, but for some reason the rest of the screen is. Either way, something isn't going on correctly.

omg, cboat's prophecy.
if you use scaling and snapping features your content will be displayed at half the resolution, that's what he must have been hinting at !

 

[Mascot]

So it seems the floodgates were only open for a couple of days last week..?

Where's the media blowout? Full-grid replay footage? A basic tuning demo? Car customisation? The painting UI? A quick look at how the career works? Next-gen car soccer? 4k car bowling? Intergalactic underwater naked space darts?

 

[derFeef]

/handing out some tinfoil hats to the thread

 

[dejay]

/handing out some tinfoil hats to the thread

Interesting fact - aluminium replaced tin in most foils you buy these days. The reason is of course that aluminium doesn't block the government satellites picking up your brain waves. Wake up people! Aluminium foil hats do nothing, that's why the government doesn't mind you wearing them.

 

[saladine1]

I've always wondered why Turn or PD hasn't had a tie in of sorts with Speedhunters.
I know EA/SMS did something with SHIFT/Speedhunters which was pretty cool.

Forza/Turn 10 have their Jalopnik associations but I would love to see some Speedhunters stuff as well, it's a great automotive enthusiast's site that spans a wide range of cultures..

http://www.speedhunters.com/

 

[kevlar35]

I've chosen three elements at native resolution to show where the aliasing we're talking about shows up places you seem to be missing. These were on the dual-screen display during the demonstration. One is in the UI of Forza, the next is on the pants of the real-life players, and the third is the white sideline on the field in real-life. Now to be fair, I notice more aliasing in the full-screen versions of these shots on the diagonals at the edge of the road than I do in the UI, but it's still present, and these show that their process is adding aliasing where it normally wouldn't be present.

You can't seriously be doing screen caps off a TV screen shown as part of a video demo and claiming that represents actual image quality?

 

[Fess]

If everything on the Xbox One is showing up like that, then something on the Xbox One is fucking up. Clearly Mahdi and Whitten aren't fucked up looking like that, but for some reason the rest of the screen is. Either way, something isn't going on correctly.

The TV or console is set to 1080i?

 

[Fruitster]

This 3000 layers a side story, has this been confirmed by Turn 10? If so, I'll be picking up an Xbox one a lot sooner than planned. That's a game changing piece of news if confirmed.

 

[eso76]

You can't seriously be doing screen caps off a TV screen shown as part of a video demo and claiming that represents actual image quality?

But it's so clear, there's undeniably something wrong with the resolution.

Maybe a bug with the OS.
I'm serious, maybe that's why they won't let you push the guide button in kiosks: maybe once the game's screen gets shrunk it gets stuck in 540p, or whatever.
Either way, the dashboard demo clearly displays issues.

But mind you, i'm very happy to hear this, because it means all the complaints about the game looking jaggy as hell are certainly due to a bug that we can be sure won't be there at launch.

I found it strange that people would find a 1080p game with at least 2xaa (possibly, 4xaa even) that jaggy, IQ should be a lot better than what we're used to anyway, and a lot better than FM4's.

 

[p3tran]

This 3000 layers a side story, has this been confirmed by Turn 10? If so, I'll be picking up an Xbox one a lot sooner than planned. That's a game changing piece of news if confirmed.

confirmed by t10 or not, it is listed in that french forza site, so it is correct all right, so you can be happy about it even if Helios never confirms it here or is never mentioned elsewhere..

by the way, I woke up, and you guys still duscussing that twitch video? something wrong with your heads or what?

TEN DAYS LEFT YOU MOTHERFUCKERS!! TEN!!

 

[LeBoef]

its aussie day...

i can add that the most important aussie racers will never be in a forza motorsport game.
the troys... bayliss and corser. aswell as the mighty stoner!

 

[eso76]

confirmed by t10 or not, it is listed in that french forza site, so it is correct all right, so you can be happy about it even if Helios never confirms it here or is never mentioned elsewhere..

by the way, I woke up, and you guys still duscussing that twitch video? something wrong with your heads or what?

TEN DAYS LEFT YOU MOTHERFUCKERS!! TEN!!

It's not just that twitch video, same iq issues appear in the recently released dashboard demo. Which is great because it basically confirms jaggies complaints are due to a bug in that build.

 

[p3tran]

Well, you really sound like Dan
.......
Why when you bring up graphics people always start to compare it to something else?

Now you go on and take that back! I dont talk PRish, I dont lie, and in general I have fixed my life in a way that I dont need to bullshit people, ever.

and about comparisons, that's how you get to keep your feet on the ground, and not let your imagination run wild.
and thats why I am right and you are wrong.

also, comparisons is the reason that we will pay extra for stuff.... because there is not another game coming out with more content.
so they counted this, and decided to monetize. world works like this, in many ways.. strange when you get a grasp of it, I know...

It's not just that twitch video, same iq issues appear in the recently released dashboard demo. Which is great because it basically confirms jaggies complaints are due to a bug in that build.

yeah yeah... twitch stream, dashboard switch, I had a quick look at the latest theories..
basically, I dont give a shit about those

just gimme the game cow!!

 

[Mush]

I've always wondered why Turn or PD hasn't had a tie in of sorts with Speedhunters.
I know EA/SMS did something with SHIFT/Speedhunters which was pretty cool.

Forza/Turn 10 have their Jalopnik associations but I would love to see some Speedhunters stuff as well, it's a great automotive enthusiast's site that spans a wide range of cultures..

http://www.speedhunters.com/

To my knowledge, Speedhunters is actually an EA thing. If you scroll down to the bottom of their page, it has legal notices and such pointing to EA.

 

[Seanspeed]

aswell as the mighty stoner!

Press 'X' to moan.

 

[LeBoef]

Press 'X' to moan.

 

[Pharaoh 117]

Now you go on and take that back! I dont talk PRish, I dont lie, and in general I have fixed my life in a way that I dont need to bullshit people, ever.

and about comparisons, that's how you get to keep your feet on the ground, and not let your imagination run wild.
and thats why I am right and you are wrong.

also, comparisons is the reason that we will pay extra for stuff.... because there is not another game coming out with more content.
so they counted this, and decided to monetize. world works like this, in many ways.. strange when you get a grasp of it, I know...

Well, I didn't call you neither a bullshiter nor a liar. Just made an observation that you sounded like him because the first thing he always says when confronted with FM shortcomings is saying how they always strive for 60fps (and now 1080p).

I don't let my imagination go wild. I have a very good grasp on what we can expect out of these new machines. Of course I didn't expect 16 forzavista models on gameplay but is it too much to ask for AI cars with better fidelity than FM4? I don't think so. Where is the Xbox One extra power going towards? I just can't see it.

When we get better quality footage and we can see that in fact some (or all) of these shortcomings have been addressed in the final version I'll be the first one to admit it and take it all back, but if this is the graphics we're getting in the final version, I'm sorry but I think T10 could do better (even at launch).

 

[saladine1]

To my knowledge, Speedhunters is actually an EA thing. If you scroll down to the bottom of their page, it has legal notices and such pointing to EA.

Aha, well there you go.

 

[p3tran]

@pharaoh
well, 60 frames (and locked) is in my opinion a very important thing, especially in racers.
I can even say that high framerate is important in a racing game, even when the physics are absent. it just makes racing more interesting, even if arcade.
having spend thousands of hours in various racing games, sure makes my opinion set on grounds and not easy to shift.

now, for me it is easy to see where they "spend" the hardware resources in this game.
and what I see is good enough to go on and buy a stupid xbone for it.


I can understand all the people that maybe expect a completely jaggy free image, or the highest possible detail everywhere, but realistically speaking, you are not going to get that.
for months everybody is raging about xbone being a glorified 7790, and suddenly EVERYBOY expects that forza will launch 1080/60 with 4xmsaa and a shitton of post processing?
I mean, is my coffee drugged here or what?

 

[eso76]

just gimme the game cow!!

Moooo

 

[Seanspeed]

"This is the steering wheel."

 

[Terbinator]

...I can understand all the people that maybe expect a completely jaggy free image, or the highest possible detail everywhere, but realistically speaking, you are not going to get that....

The former is all but out of the question anyway. We've had 1080p/4+xMSAA for yonks on PC now and 4xMSAA has never cleaned up a 1080p image on it's own, less so criminal offenders like BF3/4.

 

[saladine1]

"We're not keeping anything back," he rather unsurprisingly began. "I think people misunderstand the way these things work. It takes us six months to build a car, so when I say there's a ten-car pack launching day one - they're not done. We're not done with them yet.

"So we're not holding anything back, we were crunching to make sure we had this level of quality on all 200 cars. Every one had to be Forza level of quality. This was as many as we could build - straight up. We've built this whole process.

"It's a bit like firing artillery," Greenawalt mused, a bit more surprisingly. "We started building these cars in waves, so the 200 would be done just in time to get it printed for disc, and we started, three or four months later, the first of the ten that are going to be delivered on day one, and about a month after that we start the first of the ten that are going to be delivered the month following. The whole thing is timed so that we're getting them done right before we launch them.

"The issue is, when you're trying to do new cars and it takes us six months to build a car, it's hard to stay fresh," he added. "Even when we get data from the manufacturers, they build their cars up to the last second, and then we get the data and we've got to add six months on top. And if you want to have a hot car, you need to start it as late as possible, which means finishing it as late as possible.

"And that's why DLC has worked so well for us, because we can start shooting these artillery shots. So the whole idea that things are being held back..." It's a popular internet rant, we offered. "Many rants are popular," Greenawalt replied. "That doesn't make them accurate!"

http://www.oxm.co.uk/65965/were-not-holding-cars-back-for-forza-5-dlc-says-turn-10-people-misunderstand-the-way-these-things-work/

 

[derFeef]

artillery shots fired!

 

[sCHOCOLATE]

Six months to build a car. So...how long to build a track? I guess that makes Nordschleife and any tracks that precede or follow megaton nukes?

 

[Chance Hale]

 

[JackAubrey]

I don't know what's worse - Dan either lying through his beard, or the possibility we're not actually going to get any more tracks.

 

[Shaneus]

"And that's why DLC has worked so well for us, because we can start shooting these artillery shots. So the whole idea that things are being held back..." It's a popular internet rant, we offered. "Many rants are popular," Greenawalt replied. "That doesn't make them accurate!"

http://www.oxm.co.uk/65965/were-not-holding-cars-back-for-forza-5-dlc-says-turn-10-people-misunderstand-the-way-these-things-work/

The idea that things are being held back?

“So when you first boot up the game, we’re going to ask you to log in,” he explained. “And when you log in you’re going to get the Drivatars and you’re also going to get a whole bunch of content: tracks and cars. Our production schedule is such that we are putting them in as late as possible and that means making them free as downloadable content on Day One.

[But] that is required content to play the game. We basically have designed the game to work with all that content no matter how late is coming in, in order to make the biggest game possible.”

Yeah, I don't know where we could've gotten a silly idea like that from.

 

[Terbinator]

...It's a popular internet rant, we offered. "Many rants are popular," Greenawalt replied. "That doesn't make them accurate!"

Much like artillery?

 

[JackAubrey]

Much like artillery?

Or the F40 model.